[Closed] New Bob Graham Record

Can't even imagine the suffering in this heat. Ridiculous.

Certainly the fell running achievement of the century.

Blimey.

Wow! That’s tremendous.

Flipping heck. My mate, who did it last year in about 23hrs, was guiding a guy along the last leg from Honister to Keswick and they were saying he was flying at 22hrs!

Rob Jebb (?) was trying for a record this weekend and sacked it off because of the heat. To do it in 13 hours is lunacy.

It's absolutely astonishing (though given Kilian's pedigree it shouldn't really be that much of a surprise!)

I keep looking at my splits and comparing them to his. He could have given me a head start to the Langdale fells and still finished first.

He could have got a B&B for the night half way round and beaten me 😀

I went up to the Lakes yesterday specifically to see him finish on the basis that I don't think I'll see the record broken again. I remember when Billy Bland did his round back in 1982 - as I mentioned in the other thread, just six turned up then not the throng that greeted Kilian back to the Moot Hall. Billy was keen/excited that Kilian would beat his time by an hour or more.

Here's his Strava activity  https://www.strava.com/activities/1690134887 quite a few KOMs!

There were a few knocking on the door of Billy's old record - Rob Jebb was keen to have a go last year (he regarded his first attempt of 14:30 as slow!). The UKC article notes he was attempting a go on Saturday.

Given how absolutely knackered Kilian looked at the end, I think he absolutely went for it. The pacers could hardly keep up on leg 1 for example.

As with others - he took 11hrs off my time!

Billy Bland's record was sat on a pedestal for a long time and no-one seemed to dare to try and break it. I hope this isn't the same but equally I'd rather such attempts don't become a circus.

Wow!

Is it available on download?

Really good to see Killian back from surgery and injuries!

An very impressive result indeed!

His leg 1 route choice is interesting.  Wonder if he could have gone even faster if he had chosen a different line of Gt Calva and Blencathra.

He was paced on leg 1 by Carl Bell, probably the best longer distance fell racer in Keswick AC, lives locally and will definitely be aware of the options for leg 1- wonder if his line was more runnable?

edit-just had a look, that line off Calva is slightly longer but good underfoot, and the bogs at the bottom are so dry now it’s probably the fastest line.

True

I never liked following the fence line off Gt Calva but it's changed over the years, don't know what it's like now. I see he short cut returning to the south top of Gt Calva as well, not sure if that's new. The direct line used to be (13 years ago when I did my round) nice low heather that had just been burnt back a year or two earlier. Not many go that way these days, there is a path but it's hard to find.

Blencathra - apart from the top 100 metres or so, Hall's Fell is pretty straight-forward. There's an intermediate line between that and the parachute descent that starts down the parachute then traverses across to Hall's Fell below the tech bit. I've only ever done the parachute descent once and was following a description from memory so my time wasn't as fast as it might have been. My fastest HF descent was about 22mins with knowing it and by parachute was 24mins for the one time.

He didn't take the fastest line between Newsholme House and Clough Head either - he stuck to the east side of the fence in the boggy stuff but there's a good path on the west side. Then again things are so dry that what is normally boggy could well be good going underfoot.

Interesting that he went High Raise then Sergeant Man, I've always considered that option about five to ten minutes slower.

No surprises on the rest of his line choices.

I remember recce-ing the more direct line off Calva in 2011, the top half was fine but plunging through the deeper heather towards the bottom was awful. Must be even worse by now. Went down the fenceline for my actual round, there was a path all the way down a bit scrabbly in places but clear of vegetation.

I took the "bypass" intermediate option on Halls fell and nearly came a bit unstuck trying to find the right traverse line back across in the twilight!

Bob, do you know if he had a rope on Broad Stand? I'm guessing he just soloed it, can't imagine it slowing him down much either way.

> Then again things are so dry that what is normally boggy could well be good going underfoot.

Did the Saunders last weekend and it was hilarious running straight over places where you'd usually be thigh deep...

No idea regarding Broad Stand but if he's soloed the Peuterey Integral then it wouldn't be a problem for him, maybe a knotted "hand line". It certainly won't have been damp or greasy.

The direct line off Calva is probably a no-go these days. Just checked - it was 2011 when I last did it when supporting Leg 1. Then again I did know that way pretty well and could find the best way in the dark - you actually bear right  further than you think you should, you aim for this reentrant -  http://streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=329617&Y=530327&A=Y&Z=120  I've been in metre high heather between the track and the river. There was a long thread about line choices on the FRA forums, someone reckoned it was quicker going round by Skiddaw House as the ground was better underfoot and you lost less height.

KJ's Strava timings show just 12:08 moving and 44mins stopped. If correct, that's a lot longer stopped than any of the previous fast times - IIRC Rob Jebb stopped for a total of less than five minutes.

I think that's something to do with GPS device.  Mine said I was moving for under 18 hours and almost 21 elapsed, also with suunto - there was no way that was true

What's with the Suunto?

I think that’s something to do with GPS device

I thought it was the way that Strava interpreted the FIT file from Suunto - i.e, data looks ok in Movesount but then completely different and sometimes unrealistic when automatically transfered to Strava.

There's been various discussion on Strava about this with people expressing their frustrations.

From my own experience I've found Suunto & Movescount to be pretty accurate in terms of GPS location, measured distance and altitude (with reference values etc).

Strava on the other hand is seemingly about as accurate as measuring distance on a map with a piece of uncooked spagetti ....

edit - for example:

https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/115000091670--Too-fast-pace-and-distance-data-discrepancies

Re Broad Stand, I imagine he didn't even notice it! It's only a big deal for non-climbers.

Mine said I was moving for under 18 hours and almost 21 elapsed, also with suunto – there was no way that was true

My Suunto does the same when uploaded to Strava. I wonder if it interprets moving below a certain pace as not moving at all? There's plenty of that 'are we actually moving?' terrain on the BG!

That's an unbelievable achievement

This is a beautiful thread.

As a long time cycling visitor to Keswick and the lakes I am intrigued by such stories of local sporting heritage and the legends that inhabit it.

In fact I am currently sitting with a beer overlooking Skiddaw.

Wow. I bivvied on Helvellyn a few years back and we were woken by a couple of lads on the BG at about six, they'd started at about midnight, they'd done bloody well to get that far that fast. I guess Jornet would have been somewhere on the Scafells by then. Jeez. Amazing.

By sheer luck we had got back to the caravan in the Lakes on our way back from our hols on Arran. It had come out on social media the night before that he was going for it and, as we were up early to go Wainwrighting up near Grasmere anyway, it made sense to change plan and head to the saddle between Fairfield and Seat Sandal and catch him there. The plan worked perfectly. I was lying on the grass waiting and gazing up at walkers coming down from Fairfield, glanced to my left and he was right next to me! We saw him do Fairfield and return to ascent Seat Sandal. I managed to run behind him very briefly. A fair few have been cynical about the foreign 'sponsored runner' not knowing the history of the sport and all this but he seems to have done his research and knew a lot about it. He's been very dignified and humble about it, I think. He'd been to see Billy Bland beforehand and Billy was out on the course and at finish to support, which speaks volumes. Having supported on some BG's I know what is involved so it was pretty special to witness history being made.

I'm mildly surprised that pacers are allowed for this; maybe time for a separate, solo record..?

Still agree, this is one stonking achievement.  Anyone know if he will be at the Glencoe Skyline this year?

I’m mildly surprised that pacers are allowed for this; maybe time for a separate, solo record..?

Why? It's a tradition of the Round and of similar challenges that those attempting it have support. Often for record attempts that support comes from the existing record holder, though in this case with Billy being in his seventies that realistically wasn't going to happen. When Alan Heaton broke Bob Graham's record in 1960 Bob Graham, also in his seventies at the time, turned out to wish him well.

I can't remember any valid record attempt on any of the big three rounds (Bob Graham, Paddy Buckley, Charlie Ramsay) not using support. I say "valid" as one claimed record by a solo runner was discredited as his times between certain tops were faster than anyone had done but he himself had no history of racing at any distance faster than those whose times he'd claimed to better.

Club membership requires that each summit be witnessed and Kilian has always said that he respected and wished to abide by the local tradition. There's a solo attempt on the round (like @spin's) about once every two years. Occasionally existing members do a solo round.

There's a big difference between support and pacing, which is usually banned in athletics as it gives an advantage.  I would simply prefer to see a defined supported record and a true solo alternative.

I'm fairly certain that Scoffer, Corny. Birkinshaw, et al. weren't pacing in the accepted track/marathon sense. The term "pacers" in BGR terms is a synonym for support, mule, dogsbody. I've paced/supported on many rounds, summer and winter and it's a case of "the contender wants to ...." so you help them with that whether it's a drink, something to eat or even just a chat. It's most definitely not a case of "OK, stick to my heels and we'll make up time".

^ This. You'd struggle dafting anyone for any worthwhile period of time over that sort of terrain.

Agree with Whitestone. Although it's referred to as pacers it isn't really like pacers on the track. Killian will have dictated the pace himself and the others were along to show him the lines and validate the record in the eyes of the club.

@Whitestone, solo rounds might be a bit more common than you suggest it's just that you don't get to hear about them. I did the BG and CRR that way because I find it one less thing to worry about and it gives more flexibility on when to go as you don't need to get a team in place. I love how trusting Charlie is, I just sent him a GPS trace and a day later I was on the list!

There's also the other traditional key role of the BG pacer ie. cajole and threaten the contender to get up and keep moving when he'd rather just collapse and die in a heap... usually somewhere on the Wasdale leg. Probably wasn't necessary with KJ though!

My BG was another unofficial one with support on legs two and five but solo for the rest of it. By definition it's impossible to know how many do it under the radar -  I'd guess nearly all the club runners who do it are fully supported and get on the list, but there might be a steady trickle of unrecorded efforts by people from a broader range of backgrounds. Only a guess though.

Anyone know if he will be at the Glencoe Skyline this year?

Yes, he's said that he will be.

Yes, he’s said that he will be.

Suspect he's keen for a rematch with me after last year...

Also heard a rumour he might be in the Ben Nevis race.

Also heard a rumour he might be in the Ben Nevis race.

Hadn't heard that, but there's a photo of him meeting Kenny at the moot hall on his instagram...

The usual requests about solo rounds are along the lines of "I'm not in a club and don't have any running mates ...".
You do get the occasional club runner who asks about solo rounds - typically they are in a road only running club. You usually get to hear about solo rounds at weekends but midweek raids are harder to track especially if the runner just does it and doesn't tell anyone, or at least talk about it on social media or forums. Even then, there's a lot of activity on the fells these days and someone says something.

There's the very occasional, "I want to do it solo and you'll have to trust my word/GPX/photos".

I did it in 2011 solo unsupported, can't even remember how long but it was 20+ hours and I was a shambles after 2 pints at the end. How they do it in 12/13 is absolutely mind boggling. I thought i was quite handy at the time as well.

In his own words -  https://fastmountains.com/2018/07/10/bob-graham-round/ - there was an error with the tracker (which is where the times come from), Seat Sandal, he's on the ascent of that in the second of @MrSparkle's photos, should have a time of 10:27. In fact if MrSparkle has a look at the EXIF data on his original shot it should be something like 10:22 which would prove that.

Referring back to the "stopped time" on his Strava activity - it wasn't 45mins but 7 minutes!

I’m mildly surprised that pacers are allowed for this; maybe time for a separate, solo record..?

Was thinking about this today. Charlie Ramsay used to record whether a round was solo or accompanied but he stopped doing this I think because there are so many shades of grey once you get away from the traditional accompanied by at least one other runner approach. Solo unsupported, solo with pre-cached food, solo with static support at 1,2,3,4... points, mostly solo but a buddy came along for a bit. You get the idea!

Interesting insight into what went on behind the scenes: https://en-gb.facebook.com/groups/44498401718/permalink/10156537585871719/