Never Forget

I have just read this, a truly fascinating and incredible story

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2024/feb/04/the-jewish-boy-who-became-a-nazi-mascot-the-extraordinary-story-of-alex-kurzem

I read that too, fascinating and horrifying.

And always be on our guard, holocaust denialism has never been more insidious than it is now.

Those who forget thier history are doomed to repeat it and all that.

The Jewish people have, historically, been treated very badly - to put it mildly. They deserve our sympathy and support.

However I am finding it very difficult to 'like' the people of Israel right now.

Well said.

Has to be one of if not the most horrific event from human history. 17 million murdered in the concentration camp system. 6m Jews, 2m Polish people, nearly 8m Russian citizens. And others. The disabled(always a target to the right wing) and others deemed different.

While I don't think we'll see those numbers again in a mechanical murder system, we will see similar atrocities, or even should nuclear weapons be used by individual states(as opposed by an all in together type scenario) vast numbers killed off in future wars.

However I am finding it very difficult to ‘like’ the people of Israel right now.

Although they just happen to be Jewish, much like I don't like the Christian Republican nutters in US which a lot of Israeli spokespeople remind me of with their own version of the truth.

However I am finding it very difficult to ‘like’ the people of Israel right now.

The Israeli electorate's support for a racist far-right government is indisputably appalling imo.

But International Holocaust Memorial Day is commemorated to remember the industrialised mass-murder of Jews by Europeans. And to try to ensure that nothing like that ever happens again.

The Israeli government does undoubtedly use the Holocaust to justify its behaviour but that doesn't detract from the horrors of the Holocaust, and the fact that Israel is condemned by a very great number of Jews globally.

For example the majority of American Jews are opposed to Israel's illegal settlements and treatment of Palestinians in the Occupied West Bank.

And American Jews in the US Democrat Party were certainly instrumental in forcing Joe Biden to issue an executive order imposing sanctions on individual West Bank settlers.

Never forget the Holocaust and never blame Jews for the behaviour of zionists, especially as many zionists aren't even Jewish.

International Holocaust Memorial Day is commemorated to remember the industrialised mass-murder of Jews by Europeans. And to try to ensure that nothing like that ever happens again

Agreed and this is as it should be.

But the rest of the world should be doing more to protect the Palestinian people from a country with a right wing Government that is supported by the biggest military in the world (USA).

Unless we want the Islamic neighbours of Israel to stop them before we get around to it.

Agreed and this is as it should be.

But The rest of the world should be doing more to protect the Palestinian people from a country with a right wing Government that is supported by the biggest military in the world (USA).

Unless we want the Islamic neighbours of Israel to stop them before we get around to it.

FTFY

I can see why this situation would come to mind but there really isn't a connection. Let's not go down this road (again)

[Mod] post deleted. Please stay on topic otherwise this will end up closed. Thanks.

One of the most important aspects of Holocaust remembrance is to acknowledge the effect of such atrocities, and the enduring legacy of collective and inherited trauma. And also, to acknowledge the incredible feats achieved by Jews how were oppressed and displaced in their millions, yet went on tho achieve at the very highest level in so many areas of modern life, from science and technology, to art, theatre, music and film and Tv. Our Western society today would not be what it is, without the impact of so many great Jewish minds, and so much talent. From Albert Einstein, Marc Chagall, Alfred Eisenstaedt, Irving Berlin, Leonard Bernstein, Isaac Asimov, Arthur Miller, to Marc Zuckerberg, Prof. Robert Winston, Phillip Glass and Larry David. Forgive me for not mentioning any women. Far too many talented Jews to mention, the list could go on forever. The world owes a huge debt to Jews and Judaism. Never Forget.

Maureen Lipman

While doing a bit of reading on the Holocaust at the weekend, I got sidetracked into reading about some of Japan's actions in the Far East during the same period - I was flabbergasted that there is so little focus on the atrocities they committed in Manchuria and across the areas the occupied during WWII. There also seems to be a persistent denialism of what took place within Japanese society, in contrast to the 'facing up to reality' within West Germany post 1945.
None of which is meant to detract from the experiences of the Jews, Roma and others at the hands of the Nazis.

I think I owe it to Jewish women to provide a small list of prominent figures; in my defence I went for names that most people would recognise, and they just happen to all be male.

So; Hedy Lamarr, Rosalind Franklin, Ruth Bader-Ginsburg, Diane Arbus, Barbara Streisand, Simone Weil, Donna Karan, Naomi Klein, Anna Freud, Judith Kerr and Amy Winehouse to list but a tiny few.

Golda Meir for the list?

@ditch_jockey - they are well known atrocities but us guys in the west tend to focus on Europe, not the Far East. The UK attitude to that area was very much of its time, ie racist, xenophobic

The Slovakians were very naughty in WW2 too as were many partisan outfits.

Also look up the Armenian genocide and other Soviet genocidal activities.

Sadly the list goes on and on and on but the Belgians in Congo/central Africa is one of the most  disgraceful periods in history. Oh yes, those cuddly Belgians with their chips and mayo. 

Thankfully such attitudes are not as common nowadays.

Also look up the Armenian genocide

Interestingly, one of my lecturers back in the 80s was of Armenian descent. His parents had fled the genocide perpetrated by the Ottoman Turks and had settled in Lebanon, from where my lecturer had then had to flee when the civil war kicked off. He was a lovely old fashioned gentleman, and quite reserved about his own experiences, but the little he did say revealed a little of the heartbreak he felt over the destruction of Lebanon, and Beirut in particular.

Golda Meir for the list?

Neither Golda nor Maureen Lipman would be names that I'd choose personally, if celebrating the lives and achievements of Jewish people. But this isn't the place for such a discussion as to why or why not.

While doing a bit of reading on the Holocaust at the weekend, I got sidetracked into reading about some of Japan’s actions in the Far East during the same period – I was flabbergasted that there is so little focus on the atrocities they committed in Manchuria and across the areas the occupied during WWII. There also seems to be a persistent denialism of what took place within Japanese society, in contrast to the ‘facing up to reality’ within West Germany post 1945. None of which is meant to detract from the experiences of the Jews, Roma and others at the hands of the Nazis.

I believe many conversations are long overdue regarding the effect of British colonialism, and the historical revisionism that followed. But it's important to understand that some time must be set aside to commemorate those who were murdered by the Nazis. You wouldn't got to a funeral and berate those mourning, for ignoring the passing of others. HMD is a time to reflect on certain events, which have helped shape our world to what it is today. To me, it's a day to celebrate the fact that in spite of such unspeakable atrocities, Jews, Roma and Sinta peoples, Homosexual people, people with disabilities and indeed anyone who's just a bit 'different', are all people who can make our world a better place, and that we should make every effort to include, not exclude, anyone and everyone.

.

You wouldn’t got to a funeral and berate those mourning, for ignoring the passing of others.

Yup, well said 👍

Also one of the things which made the Nazis unique, compared to say what the Japanese did in Manchuria, is that they industrialised mass-murder for maximum efficiency. From the shaving of heads so that human hair could be used for industrial purposes to the ovens in the death camps which turned corpses into ash to fertilise soil for agriculture.

The Nazis treated Jews like any other commodity.

Japan under the military dictatorship of the first half of the 20th century was ruthless because they didn't value any human life, not even their own.

Japanese Unit 731 makes Josef Mengele look like an amateur