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Different role within the same company, but global coverage. Not really asking for advice, just venting, cos it's filling my brain and I need to vent.
It's visiting angry clients and fixing their issues, worldwide, as opposed to general UK based software services that I've been doing so far. It sounds like a dream job - not client billable work so just fix stuff and leave. Mostly just nervous because I like my current job...
Tell me stories about your job transfers.
It sounds like a dream job
Sounds like my worst nightmare tbh, sitting in airports or planes half yer life, to then listen to moaning bastards. Best of luck.
Traveling for work is awful
Worst of all, you might be sat on a plane, next to someone with questionable taste in footwear. While holding a courgette.
To some extent, my job is something similar; working to fix problems (more on the people side than technical these days), working globally etc etc.
It is definitely more emotionally taxing. When it is good, it is really, really good though.
I’m in a position where I can have more influence over the things in my work environment (opensource) than ever before. That matters to me, somehow.
It sounds like an interesting move, Molgrips - I hope it works out!
Rachel
You have a family right?
Looks on the face of it your company needs a scapegoat to fill a nasty hole..
You've been pointed out because you are a decent chap.
It sounds like a dream job
Sounds like my worst nightmare tbh, sitting in airports or planes half yer life, to then listen to moaning bastards. Best of luck.
This... ^
How angry will these clients be? How much pressure will you be under to fix their issues in a particular timeframe? Or will you be more like the AA man, who everyone is pleased to see despite the fact that their car is broken down. Helicoptering in to see grumpy clients who want it fixed yesterday doesn't sound great, but walking in to a 'thank god you're here' would be quite different.
Also which bit of the plane do you sit in on your way to these clients? And do you keep all your loyalty points?
And as it's worldwide do you now get the option to be paid in Euros or USD?
While holding a courgette.
Remember, grip the base firmly with your left hand...
Do it.
If you hate it you can always quit and find another job.
If you don’t do it you’ll spend a lifetime wondering “what if....?”
I did a similar job when I worked for one of the big-4 consultancies. It was UK based tho. They appealed to my ego when offering it- telling me how well thought of I was with clients and how good I was at getting to the heart of the problems.
I actually quite enjoyed the work in a ‘well I can’t leave it in any worse state that it is now’ but the travelling was horrible, and the not knowing what you were walking into never stopped being nerve wracking.
I didn’t do it for long. Had a young family and it was pretty much all consuming. Not sure if that’s analogous to what you’ve been offered, but that’s my experience.
Sounds like my worst nightmare tbh, sitting in airports or planes half yer life, to then listen to moaning bastards. Best of luck.
This.
Time to have the work life bike balance check, for me if I could plan the travel better I could make more of it. But I don't have a family to worry about or see so tagging a couple of weekends onto a trip and taking the bike is a bonus holiday
Traveling for work is awful
It certainly has its downsides. I did it for over 20 years, less so now by choice. At the end of last year to cover a colleague on paternity leave in the space of a couple of months I went to Prague, Tokyo, Seoul, Warsaw, Bangkok and Miami. I sat on the side of the Danube watching the swans swim by. Spent a day in Disneyland Tokyo,it's some experience to see how the Japanese embrace that! Found myself at the top of a mountain in the middle of a cultural festival in Seoul to mark international peace day. Saw a Polish Military passing out parade. Went on a suicidal Tuk Tuk ride through the streets of Bangkok and watched tug boats push and pull a container ship right into the centre of downtown Miami.
I sometimes wonder whether I'd do it all again though, I missed a lot of the kids growing up, it probably had an influence of getting divorced and it meant never really being able to take on any regular commitments.
Actually I do know, and yes I would do it all again, too many things seen and experienced that I cannot possibly imagine not having experienced and seen.
That job would put three stone on you and the forum would be deluged with fat angst threads week in week out. Show us some mercy molgrips.
Lol!
Travelling for work is awful
This - pretty much.
I've been travelling for the last 12 years on and off. Thankfully mine has been limited to Europe.
To be fair i've been to some cool places, eaten in some great restaurants and done things i'd have never done otherwise.. but 99% of the time i'd rather be at home with the wife and kids.
Worst of all, you might be sat on a plane, next to someone with questionable taste in footwear. While holding a courgette.
I think it is unlikely Molgrips new job gets him to travel at the front of the plane!
Fascinating how jobs like these polarise people!
My current job is services, which means my time is billable. I spend some of my time doing stuff like this - customer buys software, creates a turd of an application using it, then complains to us that it doesn't work properly and it's all our fault - but I always fix it. I'm pretty good and handling the customers in a techie way (not sales) I think. But there's always tension because the customers want it fixed, but really they should pay for my time. We can give some freebies away but pressure on our management is to be billable. Otherwise, I get to join some project for usually 3 months to help them implement something, but occasionally I get stuck in some awful tedious crap for a year being a code monkey, which I hate.
The new job is only the first part - sorting out customers problems - and it's only for a week at a time or max two. I get much more autonomy, no billable pressure, no timesheets and no long term commitment. It's also supporting a different product area which is much more interesting, complex and deep - last one was a bit of a pigeon hole and rather too easy. And on top of that it's high profile and high prestige. As for the pressure - I need pressure, and I always come through, so that should mean grateful customers and kudos for me.
Plus, I love the travel I do in my current role. Seems weird but I just love sitting in airport coffee shops chilling out with my laptop. The actual flying isn't too bad but so far I've only done short haul for work.
A mate from my current team went to work in this new one, and he loves it for the same reasons I do. He's well looked after, he has a lot of control over what he does and where he goes, and they respect his family commitments. So it seems like the right thing to do for me.
angry clients all over the world, with different cultural expectations and attitude to getting stuff 'fixed' -- hm, I'd not be rushing for that one !!
I think it is unlikely Molgrips new job gets him to travel at the front of the plane!
True - no business class for us 🙁
To be fair i’ve been to some cool places, eaten in some great restaurants and done things i’d have never done otherwise..
I spent four months working in Northern Sweden, December to March. The PM was a triathlete, so we did a few runs together. We were standing on top of a hill looking out across the snowy wilderness and he said the project might extend, and I might be needed for longer, then he apologised that I might have to do more travelling. I told him there was nothing to apologise for, I was having the time of my life! It was pretty magical. And of course I took my bike 🙂
I'm in the sounds like my idea of hell camp, but appreciate everyone is different so if it appeals to you then go for it.
I was chatting to a guy the other day who is really senior in HSBC and travels all of the time. He was so despondent, he basically said he spend his life queuing. He queues for airport security, then for the plane, then for his bags. He then queues for a taxi then queues to check into a hotel. The he queues at reception at the local office. And repeat, and repeat. He said it puts him off going abroad for holiday.
I think occasional travel for work is awesome. Doing it all the time will suck your will to live.
The new job is only the first part – sorting out customers problems – and it’s only for a week at a time or max two.
Plus, I love the travel I do in my current role. Seems weird but I just love sitting in airport coffee shops chilling out with my laptop. The actual flying isn’t too bad but so far I’ve only done short haul for work.
the more important question is how does the rest of the family think about you being out for 2 week stints - 1 always = 2 in these cases 😉
I was chatting to a guy the other day who is really senior in HSBC and travels all of the time. He was so despondent, he basically said he spend his lie queuing. He queues for security, then for the plane, then for his bags. He then queues for a taxi then queues to check into a hotel. The he queues at reception at the local office. And repeat, and repeat. He said it puts him off going abroad for holiday.
he needs to sort his loyalty schemes out!! The one bonus of travelling on the work ticket a lot is the very short queues - or none at all, doesn't make it great just more bearable.
the more important question is how does the rest of the family think about you being out for 2 week stints – 1 always = 2 in these cases
Well I'll always be home for weekends. Like I say I've been chatting to a mate who made the same move a year ago, and he insists on being home to take his kids to school every Friday - and he is.
he needs to sort his loyalty schemes out!!
Yes he does - only took me about 2 months travelling weekly on KLM to get queue-jumping priority.
I think for the sake of SingleTrackWorld's belly busting threads you should do it.
This new job has plenty of air-mileage to justify lack of dietary control and weight loss.
I've been exporting for 35 years and before email, digital cameras and Watsapp, my trips used to involve a lot of dealing with customers' lists of complaints and grievances. Nowadays that's completely unnecessary because we are so easy to contact and stuff gets resolved in a few minutes.
If you're single I'd say definitely go for it; nothing broadens the mind like overseas travel. The only downside is that you will become very blasé about travelling and your wife will get annoyed at your lack of excitement about going on holiday.
Well I’ll always be home for weekends.
When you’re away long haul?
Really depends on if you have a young family and how your partner feels if they will be taking the load whilst you are away.
If I was to do this I would feel incredibly selfish, leaving my partner to do most of the upbringing.
The only way I have even thought about justifying a job with significant time away from family is if I earned so much my wife could completely stop working and I could afford to employ a bunch of people like gardners and cleaners to make our life easier.
Running those numbers through I need to be earning something like £120k....
Traveling for work is awful
+1
Try and avoid it at all costs now, inc holidays as I have wasted way too many weeks in lounges, planes, taxis etc. Starts off exciting and then rapidly becomes soul destroyingly tedious.
doesn't sound like a dream job to me - I've done it a couple of times and often you just go over there for them to have someone to shout at, and then you'll be under the cosh (think Liam Nesson...) to get the problem fixed. Staying in hotels with nasty air conditioning...
Traveling for work is awful
+1
I used to travel a lot before we had kids. It was OK when I was single but I wouldn't dream of doing it now.
I'm already away now a lot - potentially much more than in the new job. That's part of the reason for moving.
When you’re away long haul?
Yeah - fly out Monday, fly back Thursday. Back to back long haul wouldn't be great but no job's perfect.
A few things to consider based upon too many years of International biz travel.
What is your companies travel policy for Long-haul?
As Asia/US travel in economy can be horrendous , even premium economy can make a significant difference to how you feel during and after the flight.
Will you be paid for travelling inc weekends?
Join an Airline loyalty scheme and rack up those points for upgrades, fast check-in and importantly lounge access (Quantas Lounge in HK my fav :-)).
I use BA/Avios + BA Amex card for expenses and its pretty much paid for the Family holiday to Florida.
Always carefully plan your trips so you don't travel across two consecutive weekends to allow jet-lag recovery time.
Now when we travel on family holidays, my Wife's holiday starts at the airport whilst mine starts at the final destination. I don't enjoy the travel bit anymore 🙂
So If you are Youngish and Mobile go and try for a few years enjoy the experience, if its not your bag then move on.
Will you be paid for travelling inc weekends?
It accrues TOIL.
I have been doing some travel for work.
Yes, it is interesting and you get to meet some nice folk and go nice places. I find the Europe stuff easy, the long-haul was tough. I work in a nice industry though, and I am welcomed by clients as a partner and 'help' when then need it as a trainer. Plus I think I do a good job (and so do they usuall!).
Home - mrs_oab is (rightly) getting antsy about some of the forthcoming trips (London or south x8 trips, Europe for three week long+, Aisa for two week by October.) It puts pressure on her as working and looking after the boys. This for me is the bigger issue.
I and mrs_oab are OK with current level of me being away, but not much more. That said, we may have global development job in a years time, and it is tempting...
Tell me stories about your job transfers.
3 years ago I moved to Sales from Professional Services management. I was bored, demotivated and wanted to try something different. I was offered a chance to move internally. I gave myself a year knowing I'd move on after that, I was shitting myself at the thought of selling things, and trying to make a number.
Its the hardest most stressful job I've done, but am really enjoying the challenges, the flexibility and the success. I started at the bottom and worked my way up to a the most senior non management position, and have enough on my CV to give me plenty of opportunity outside of my current organisation.
If I hadn't taken the first step I'd have been looking for management of a professional services team or a supporting SME role in related civil engineering which looking back now, would not have lit my fire.
Sometimes its worth taking the risk just to find out whether you like something different, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. There's a lot said for being happy in what you do daily.
It is very polarising, it does help if you have always just done it
Try and avoid it at all costs now, inc holidays as I have wasted way too many weeks in lounges, planes, taxis etc. Starts off exciting and then rapidly becomes soul destroyingly tedious.
Weeks on end in the office can be just the same.
The other factor to consider is some recovery time, last week was 3 days away but flights were 9pm out on Monday and 10pm home on Thursday, followed by this week with a day trip to Paris then off across the county the day after. Now before I knew I was doing that I booked a weekend away in the middle - still feeling like I need a day off today.
You need to be very clear on how the TOIL policy works and what expectations are on you, again just shy of 3 weeks hours in 2 here and I'll not be getting much of that back.
Cash wise what is covered - is there an away from home allowance as incidentals tend to add up for the little things that don't end up on the company plastic.
As many have said it opens up some fantastic places and some shit holes, I've ridden my bike in some iconic places thanks to work and round the back of the shit works in Hamilton NZ on a wet Wednesday night.
the thing with travelling for work is if you only do it a couple of weeks a year, it's quite nice. Time to hang out by yourself, reflect, go somewhere new, meets some new people. Lovely.
Do it monthly and its a nightmare. Constantly going to the same sh*toles, via the same sh*tty airports (and with work I'd only travel at the front anyway). Missing out on important things in life, destroying good chances of a relationship, wearing you down, jetlag causing you to be tired the whole time, whether you're away, or at home recovering from it.
Don't do it 😛 This hasn't polerised people, everyone with experience is saying no. The £500/year worth of points\miles you get just isn't worth the pain.
(qualifications : ba silver, hilton gold, marriott gold, avis presidents)
Don’t do it 😛 This hasn’t polerised people, everyone with experience is saying no.
Read the thread carefully. I'm already away from home 50-60% of the time in my current job. I was in Amsterdam three days a week every week from September to Christmas, and I enjoyed it. The family are used to it. And when I'm at home, I'm at home, so I'm ready to hang out with the kids at 3.45 or whatever.
The new one will be better because there are no long term assignments, which means lots of breaks.
At least you will no longer need to eat your protein shakes as exercise will go out of the window.
My cousin does a lot of travelling. Most of it business or first class. He gets to see some nice parts of the world and his strava looks impressive, but it’s not healthy or conducive to family life (his words not mine) . Odly though he keeps buying businesses that mean lots of international travel.
I used to fly Leeds to London for work and that was tiring enough.
If it's crap can you have your old job back?
If so what's stopping you?
Dunno if I get my old job back or not.
Plucked up the courage to email my current boss at 5pm yesterday but he'd clocked off, so I emailed. I hate breakups!
Do you get to work form home when your in the UK? One of the savings for me (which I'm not quite getting here) was being able to get up late and do a day from home getting caught up on the mundane stuff like washing/post/shopping while being able to do calls and answer emails. Landing late and being in the office 9am the next day is less fun.
Do you get to work form home when your in the UK?
Yes, if you could check.my posting history you'd be able to tell when I'm on a project 🙂
I went to one external job interview for professional services, and it sounded pretty good, until near the end of the any questions part I remembered to check if I got to work from home when unassigned, assuming that was obviously he case. But they expected you in the office every day. Er, no thanks!
The secret to a successful career is to leave good jobs. So you like your current job. The answer is to leave it.
Yeah I've always had a policy of saying yes to stuff, and it's done me very well indeed so far given that I'm essentially a lazy bum.
I could think of nothing worse than having to ever travel for a job, in my experience it’s never the most talented they send out.
Keep your sanity, no amount of money is worth having to be away from home.
I used to travel 3 to 4 day trips a week. Fly in, sort problems, fly out. Great people, great work. All business class, limos etc. 20 years after I stopped I still regularly have the same nightmare of going to the airport on the way back and there is no plane at my gate waiting for me. No joke here.
Don’t do it. Good luck if you do.
It seems to depend on your outlook.
Glass half full, open mind to travelling and new experiences?
You'll love it.
From your wider posts and comments above, looks like you'll do more than fine.
Great move!
Keep your sanity, no amount of money is worth having to be away from home.
I already travel 50-60%, said this a few times now, people don't read very well do they? 🙂
I can't think of anything worse than being stuck in the same place, same office, same people, same shite, same commute, same sandwich shop every single day. I'd be depressed as hell!
Just read the thread properly...
Your role is moving from billable to “overhead”, are you sure - especially with the hefty flight expenses - your company is prepared to foot the bill for you long term aka is this is viable future?
Secondly, Last year my boss undertook to expand our business in Saudi. He and a peer colleague are pretty much there every two weeks. I’ve never seen him so tired, he’s has to take to an overnight Thursday flight to ensure he does a school run Friday morning and is home for the weekend after an issue at home, and he’s told me the excitement of flight plus hotel has worn off very quickly.
I can see your point - I’ve been travelling around the UK for 26 years now, first in Services and now in Sales. I stay in hotels an average of twice a week, but it doesn’t bother me, I either quite like the downtime or I’m preparing in the evenings. I do maybe 2 flights a year overseas though and that I can see that is draining.
I agree with you molgrip on the same office / same people principle. I did it while out kids were babies and although convenient for that got bored as hell. If I hadn’t been offered this job I would have left the company.
I've done long term euro travel.it is manageable
I moved to a global role.
Won't do that again.
Have fun.
Having to be away from the a young family so much of the time doesnt sound good.
I have a few friends who have worked away whilst they had/have young families:
One friend worked 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off; this ended in divorce and by his own admission cost him building a proper relationship with his kids.
Another works Monday - Friday in London and home each weekend .. his wife was discovered seeing someone.
And another who has a similar job as the new one you describe. He absolutely loves the job, although he is just about the only one who doesnt know his wife has had quite a few male friends to keep her company whilst he is away.
Somethings are just too far off the ground to feed themselves; and some itches just need to be scratched.
Best of luck. But like others have commented - sounds a nightmare job to me if you got a young family.
Your role is moving from billable to “overhead”, are you sure – especially with the hefty flight expenses – your company is prepared to foot the bill for you long term aka is this is viable future?
Good question tbh. The team is relatively new, but the development side were finding they were having to 'pay' internally for services to go and sort out climbers problems who didn't feel they should have to pay. I've done plenty of freebie work even in services.
The thing is, for us software license is far more important than services revenue. Services were originally supposed to be cost neutral to ensure licenses were renewed, but then management decided they wanted to try and make us profitable. This new role is back to that old model of effectively sales support. Let's just say that the flight costs are low compared to even one day of services.
Mooman - same amount of time away as now but better spaced out.
Well, it's official.
Feeling terrible about leaving the old team too though. They were good people, and good to me - the manager is the guy who gave me my big break and the only job I've ever actually enjoyed having, which consequently had a huge impact on my quality of life.
Sounds like my worst nightmare tbh, sitting in airports or planes half yer life, to then listen to moaning bastards.
Don't forget the having to wear that god awful bright orange uniform and fake smiling while pushing the trolley 😉
I dunno what you're referring to geex but it was probably a good gag for those who do 🙂
...but it was probably a good gag for those who do
You are just in a good mood because of your new job, but that’s waaaaay too generous 👍
I dunno what you’re referring to geex but it was probably a good gag for those who do
I’m not entirely sure, but I think the implication is a job as a trolley-dolly with EasyJet... 😬
Molly trolly dolly 🤣
Anyway good on you for making the decision. If it doesn’t work out, it sounds like your old team will have you back in a heartbeat!
Good luck
Sounds like the kind of job that would be first to be cut in a downturn.
Not really asking for advice, just venting, cos it’s filling my brain and I need to vent.
Aha...
Tell me stories about your job transfers.
Years ago I was a motorcycle courier in London. It was an interesting combination of mind-numbing boredom interspersed with moments of life-threatening danger, usually caused by someone else. Human interaction was limited to brief exchanges with often ditsy receptionists along the lines of: 'I'm collecting a package for...' Occasionally there was flirting, but it's hard to be alluring when you're wearing a full-face helmet and stink of diesel particulates.
After a while it dawned on me that I would die either in a hideous RTA or of sheer boredom from riding along the same roads over and over again, so I applied for some different, less dangerous roles.
Eventually I ended up doing PR for the UK motorcycle industry. I travelled less, obviously, but wrote more stuff - before it had mostly been addresses and signatures - now it was unrealistic puff about how motorcycles were good, clean, family fun and not at all dangerous. On the plus side I no longer stank of diesel particulates and on the odd occasion when I had the opportunity to flirt with a receptionist, I was rejected on the basis of my actual looks rather than my muffled banter.
On balance I think I preferred being a motorcycle courier. Thanks for listening.
Anyway good on you for making the decision. If it doesn’t work out, it sounds like your old team will have you back in a heartbeat!
Good luck
Thanks. Apparently my old boss was full of good things to say about me. I'd have assumed he'd be full of complaints about my total lack of corporate housekeeping. Felt bad about it all really, but nearly 8 years in that role isn't too bad.
New job is funded by development rather than clients so far less likely to be filled with boring crap billing hours. Starting April 8th...
At least MrsMol will know where you are, a friends partner can “disappear” for months without being able to tell her where he is going.
A now ex workmate was an engineer on submarines, months at a time away at and under the sea. Anyone who has a partner in the “services” has to accept and work around these issues as do Euro lorry drivers, oil and gas rig workers etc....
Some families can cope, others can’t, takes all sorts.
Only you, Molgrips can know if MrsM & co can.
MrsT worked away for 2yrs, Mon-Fri. I worked shifts so got to ride my bike and play as much squash as I liked....
First day today. So far - nothing has happened at all. New boss is in California so is presumably still sleeping.
Off to break into my garage.
Boss in California- expect to get calls from 3pm just as you are planning the evening. I had an interesting call from an out of breath colleague at our HQ in California while she was on a treadmill!
In my opinion and experience you should be on 1.5 -2 time your day rate when away plus expenses if PAYE. Different if contract but I would still have a mark up for being away. Travel day always paid the same as work days. Weekends away should have some payment if PAYE or fullaway rate if working the weekend (I always try to work at least one day of a weekend). Ling haul is horrible especially if it's in and out in week. It you plan on traveling Mon and Thursday then you will only get two days work done while away.
Travel for work has good and bad points. I struggle with being away but I struggle with going into the office and bullshit rules. It need to make financial sense and need partners support.
In my opinion and experience you should be on 1.5 -2 time your day rate when away plus expenses if PAYE.
Eh? I doubt many companies could afford to do that (assuming you mean the employee is claiming 1.5x or 2x O/T). I think there's a small daily disturbance allowance where I work if you're away over 5 days but it's peanuts
In my opinion and experience you should be on 1.5 -2 time your day rate when away plus expenses if PAYE
Since travel has always been part of my job it's factored into the salary. And weekends have always been very well protected, I did a couple of on-call weekends once and got generously compensated even though I ended up doing nothing.
There's the likelihood of long hall on this job meaning the occasional Sunday, but according to my mate the TOIL is very generously dispensed and no-one really cares to count it.
In my opinion and experience you should be on 1.5 -2 time your day rate when away plus expenses if PAYE.
What industry is this? I work in Pharma and this is not typical at all. Expectation to travel is part of JD and salary reflects this (to some extent). Occasional weekend travel is unavoidable, the only compensation for this is time in lieu.
Software. If you are not being paid more to travel there is little point. You may have it factored into your salary but then it would still be a substantial mark up on working from office. Daily allowance expenses are different. If it's rolled into your salary the it's less clear cut unless you are on 2 away 2 at base or similar and harder to work out what you are getting paid for. I prefer the explicit knowledge that I get X more when away rather than any finger in the air type deal without explicit knowledge of how much away work I will be doing. It's a lot lije unpaid overtime. You have to be careful you don't actually end up working for less.
Time in lieu is equivalent to another days pay if traveling weekends
If you are not being paid more to travel there is little point.
I actually like it.
One of the main reasons for taking this job was the exotic travel. And now my first trip is planned, and it's in.. Slough. Seriously 🙂
Real risk of catching something. Exciting!