[Closed] Neo Nazi nutters

Reverse correctness can sometimes be amusing, though

I was on a job recently and got moaned at for saying 'Half Caste'. I pointed out to the silly cow that my best mate (and Godfather to my kids)is Jamaican and calls his own son, who has a white Mum 'Half-Caste'. But she would have it, oh no. It's correct to say 'combined culture' she tells me. Really, I do wonder if the only people who care about crap like that are white, middle class liberals. None of my black or Asian mates in Luton do.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4782856.stm

wow the country really has gone to sh!t 4 years ago in 2 nurseries some teachers changed the lyrics of a nursery rhyme
that story was so worthy of an article on the bbc, infact id say it makes my top 10 pieces of investigative journalism along with the watergate scandal and the telegraphs expenses probe

Ever tried to speak to a cop at one of these demos?

And you didn't come forward as a witness later because...?

Aracer - having defended me that makes you a lefty by association. 😉 Probably a politically correct one as well. Possibly even a liberal.

BTW - I have told you lot a millions times. Its not "political correctness gone mad" its " political correctness living with mental health issues"

With regards to not using "black sheep" in "baa baa black sheep", what's the reason? Is there some sort of negative stereotype of black sheep selling their wool? I fail to see any racial undertone.

With regards to not using "black sheep" in "baa baa black sheep", what's the reason? Is there some sort of negative stereotype of black sheep selling their wool? I fail to see any racial undertone.

There isn't one. And in fact the article clearly states "Parents and Children Together (Pact), said the move was educational, [u]not motivated by racial concerns[/u]. Pact said children were encouraged to use a wide range of words in songs."

Naturally this details is lost on the "political correctness gone man" brigade.

The rhyme does have a [url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/600470.stm ]slightly dodgy colonial origin[/url], but this is long forgotten by most folk.

MikeG - Same thing at your daughter's school?

Freedom of speech just doesn't mean anything these days does it?

was on a job recently and got moaned at for saying 'Half Caste'

Cor blimey, you can't say anything these days can you?

My mate's dog is called You Stupid Darkie and all these ethnics look at him all funny when he shouts his dog over in the park. His dog's black! Whats the problem??? Some lefty bint suggested he should call his dog Differently Skilled Canine of Colour. Women's Liberation? Get back in the kitchen Doris and liberate me some food!

Political Incorrectness Brigade, that was my old regiment.

Ahhhhh.

Freedom of speech just doesn't mean anything these days does it?

I know, I should be able to go around crudely insulting whoever the **** I like.

The Baa-Baa-Black sheep "report" is a non-sense.

THe negative context of eth black sheeep being teh odd one out? Erm aren't most sheep white? NOt due to any latent ovine racial hatred but because they are.

"yes sir, yes sir" as a reply by slaves or if you like anyone who wanted to talk to their "betters" back in the day. Hell, earlier today i had chidren saying yes sir to me. Does this mean i am reinforcing racism at a base level?

joolsburger - Member
Freedom of speech just doesn't mean anything these days does it?

So is this why you started the thread then joolsburger? You think those two nice neo-Nazis shouldn't have been picked up for inciting racial hatred?

There's an Iranian comedienne (or "comedian" if you prefer) called Shappi Korsandi who's act includes the following (from memory so probably not word perfect):

" When I had my daughter, the nurse asked me what my racial background was as she had to fill in a form for the baby's record.

I and my husband are from Iran, so I said "I'm from Iran and my husband is from Nottingham". "Oh!" said the nurse - "Mixed Race, then!" 🙄

Cor blimey, you can't say anything these days can you?

My mate's dog is called You Stupid Darkie and all these ethnics look at him all funny when he shouts his dog over in the park. His dog's black! Whats the problem??? Some lefty bint suggested he should call his dog Differently Skilled Canine of Colour. Women's Liberation? Get back in the kitchen Doris and liberate me some food!

Political Incorrectness Brigade, that was my old regiment.

Ahhhhh.

So what are you trying to say there? That my black mate calls his half-caste son a half-caste in an attempt to insult him on the sly?

Your mate using the phrase "half-caste" is O.K. because he's "black".

This is the same reason why it is OK for a "black" person to refer to another with the word "****". It's obvious.

Mind you, here's the black comedian Chris Rock on the subject:

"Man, I HATE ****s, and I'm black!"

Go figure.

This thread almost, but not quite, fills the void left by smee 🙂

Basically people are free to say what they want. It's only words.

That's the point.

I do feel that trying to supress opinion (however unpalletable) is the start of a very slippery slope, yes.

Basically people are free to say what they want.

Maybe. Whether or not you should always exercise that right is a different matter.

This thread almost, but not quite, fills the void left by smee

Basically people are free to say what they want. It's only words.

Forcing people with these shitty views and horrible attitudes underground just makes them more likely to do horrible things.

That's my take on it anyway.

Is it time for tea? Oh goodie. Can I have a digestive? I like digestives...

Indeed - should let the hitmen advertise in the yellow pages.

But he wouldn't unless you paid him and then that's a whole new ballgame.

It's not analogous at all. Not even in the slightest. Trying to compact a very difficult wide ranging argument into such simple terms isn't really possible.

The black chocolate ones... 😯

It's only words

But words are all I have, to take your heart away...

I like Ginger Nuts. There are some on finances desk..

joolsburger - Member
Basically people are free to say what they want. It's only words.

In this case it isn't 'only words' -- it's inciting racial hatred deliberately and systematically. Are you fine with that joolsburger?

Good point <goes to check when Stevie registered>

I'm me, not Smee. I supposed 'Smee' would say that, wouldn't he, but none the less I am me not he. I might patent that sentence as one of those 'try saying that after a few beers' toungue twisters.

But he wouldn't unless you paid him and then that's a whole new ballgame.

Nope, but I'm also not fine with it being a crime.

It's too subjective see. Where does opionion end and hatred begin, who decides and why??

GrahamS - Member

It's only words

But words are all I have, to take your heart away...

Now that were right proper music, back in the old days. Young people these days with their hippo-hoppi and garage rubbish don't know they're born it weren't like that in my day I liked Barry better than the other two they were a bit too pouffy for my liking but at least they weren't black ooh, thanks nurse.

Your mate using the phrase "half-caste" is O.K. because he's "black".
This is the same reason why it is OK for a "black" person to refer to another with the word "****". It's obvious.
Mind you, here's the black comedian Chris Rock on the subject:
"Man, I HATE ****s, and I'm black!"
Go figure.

I blame the Gingers.

Stevie is Dr Seuss and I claim my £5

You often hear phrases like "he should be shot for that"
without the people actually meaning that

Anyway, moving on now (please), shall we get back to the original post?
"I hate what these guys did and stand for but I'm very uncomfortable that people can be jailed for their views however onerous."
Sheppard wasnt jailed for his views, he was jailed for what he did. He is (was) the editor of 'redwatch', a charming publication which lists the names and addresses of what are seen as left wing activists / republican sympathisers, and encourages it's readership to harrass and physically attack them. They often get these facts wrong, and on numerous occasions, perfectly innocent people are targetted. He still has strong BNP links, and prior to that had involvement with combat 18 and the loyallist movement.

joolsburger - Member
Nope, but I'm also not fine with it being a crime.

You're not fine with it being a crime to create and distribute a huge amount of material inciting racial hatred? And targeting synagogues with that material?

Anyway, moving on now (please), shall we get back to the original post

Er...

So what are you trying to say there? That my black mate calls his half-caste son a half-caste in an attempt to insult him on the sly?

No Stevie, I'm suggesting that your mate's scale of acceptable things to say within a family context might not mirror everyone else's, so out of consideration for other people's feelings it might not be terribly polite to adopt it in public as your own to be applied in all situations.

The term "half-caste" can be extremely offensive to large numbers of people, so to avoid causing unnecessary upset to people you don't know it might be more pleasant to use the term "mixed race" (for instance), which does not have quite the same capacity to offend, as far as I am aware. It has the same number of syllables, so shouldn't cause you undue inconvenience in spoken communication, an unambiguous meaning and would probably cause fewer silly cows to moan at you.

Win-win!

lists the names and addresses of what are seen as left wing activists / republican sympathisers, and encourages it's readership to harrass and physically attack them. They often get these facts wrong, and on numerous occasions, perfectly innocent people are targetted.

Joolsburger - there is a subtle but important distinction you have missed. Holding racist views and even expressing them is not illegal. Its inciting others to be racist or to commit crimes that is against the law.

As I said before
Saying " all singlespeeders are stupid" is fine
Saying " all singlespeeders are stupid and should be killed" is not.

subtle but important difference.

I'm a publican sympathiser, will I be targeted? 🙂

The term "half-caste" can be extremely offensive to large numbers of people

Who? I have NEVER heard anyone consider the term offensive in Luton (which is very multicultural and working class), it is used as a matter of course by white, black and mixed-race/half caste people. The only person to have complained about it was this bank manager in Brighton (which is very white and middle class). I'm not [i]trying[/i] to be offensive, despite it possibly seeming that way, I just speak how I have for the last 40 years.

You're not fine with it being a crime to create and distribute a huge amount of material inciting racial hatred? And targeting synagogues with that material?

No I am not.

Simply put putting people in prison because they disagree with the consensus view is wrong. Irrespective of what that concensus is or what their views are.

I don't like them or their views or the fact they commited them to paper and mailed them to a synagogue but never the less they are entitled to be contrary.

However if there was a criminal conspiracy to commit a crime like assult or worse that is different. Was there?? I don't know which is why I asked.

TJ

I understand the distinction in law but not the moral justification for it?

"There's this subtle implication there that left wing activists and republican (sic?) sympathisers aren't innocent!"
Not really that subtle. As a member of the anti nazi league in the 80's and 90's, I fell foul of them (C18 and Redwatch) on several occasions. I cant, hand on heart, state that I believed in peaceful protest at the time. However, redwatch included members of CND and Trade unions in it's hate lists, and it's people such as this that I would consider 'innocent'.

Joolsburger - there is a subtle but important distinction you have missed. Holding racist views and even expressing them is not illegal. Its inciting others to be racist or to commit crimes that is against the law.

As I said before
Saying " all singlespeeders are stupid" is fine
Saying " all singlespeeders are stupid and should be killed" is not.

subtle but important difference

Actually Jerry expressing racist views [i]is[/i] illegal it is punishable under the Public Order Act 1984. Rightly so, too.

@ joolsburger

There is a hell of a lot of material online (not just your BBC report) about these two Nazis and their activities. Read it. Is this really the sort of thing you can describe as just a bit 'contrary'? They're a long way from being naughty kids.

I have no doubt these guys are utter shitbags.

My concern, and I hope it proves Ill founded, is that this is the thin end of a wedge which results in other points of view being outlawed.

I am brown myself, certainly not white English but I truly believe that by trying to supress this stuff it becomes more dangerous. Removing the voice of an angry person makes them lash out in other ways seems pretty obvious to me.

I'm pink mainly, with bits of blue and a scattering of brown spots.

I've only got a small willie, though...

stevie i grew up in luton/ dunstable id say that its a good 10 years behind the rest of the uk as regards political correctness and a lot of other things too!

"Removing the voice of an angry person makes them lash out in other ways seems pretty obvious to me."
They've been 'lashing out in other ways' for years. We generally describe neo nazis as 'nutters' (just paraphrasing, as a psychiatric nurse, I realise how offensive that term is, but let's not get sidetracked eh?). In doing this, we somehow diminish the severity of the threat posed by these people. As mattie has already stated, theyre a long way from naughty kids.

I am brown myself, certainly not white English

I'm translucent-blue Scottish.

stevie i grew up in luton/ dunstable id say that its a good 10 years behind the rest of the uk as regards political correctness and a lot of other things too!

Yes indeed. And it's gotten worse, Delcos, AWD, Renault, Vauxhall, almost all the factories have closed down. There is NO work. Dunstable is a ghost town. In my opinion we are ahead of most of the rest of the country on race though, racism doesn't really exist at all in Luton or Dunstable, cultural differences create problems but not race.

I'm translucent-blue Scottish

Is that code for Ginger?

Standard issue Scottish complexion for gingers and non-gingers alike.

[img] [/img]

Standard issue Scottish complexion for gingers and non-gingers alike

I spent a week up in Elgin once, working. It co-incided with the first heat wave they'd had for ages, there were all these lads and lasses walking aroung half naked, blinking at the strange yellow thing in the sky. For about 5 minutes, then they all turned this burgundy colour 😆 .

Joey Deacon is not much worse than saying 'idiot' or 'moron' is it?

I'd suggest there's a significant difference, but I'm not about to argue it, as it's best left at this point. You could always wiki the terms and see if you can work it out for yourself.

er, no I can't actually, and thanks for the condescending tone there, perhaps you could educate me?

Idiot -> Mentally disabled person
Joey Deacon -> mentally disabled person

It's hypocritical IMHO to have a go at the thread starter for using 'Joey Deacon' then use 'idiot' in your own posts.

And it's actually best left at this point where I win. 🙄