You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Used to do a fair bit of trail riding in Guildford. That you would encounter an entitled middle class dog walker or irascible geriatric rambler who would go out of their way to get in your way was priced in to every ride.
Rarely experience such things up here in Manny..
Guildford is the most middle class place win the country is it not? Which would corroborate tj’s hypothesis.
It does nothing of the sort. Remember his sample is 2.
We don't even know what middle class is.
Guildford is not some sort of social outlier. There are very under privileged parts of Surrey, including near Guildford. Yes it's quite wealthy overall but many towns are, somewhere has to be the wealthiest but that doesn't mean it's suddenly becomes some sort of social micro climate.
The idea of correlating class and levels of rudeness sounds ridiculous to me. It sounds like unconscious bias at best. And reverse snobbery at worst.
It does nothing of the sort. Remember his sample is 2.
No - I describe two incidents that follow a pattern of a dozen or more over a decade or two
Over the years the rudest folk I have encountered have nearly all been middle class folk
BTW - I am as middle class as they come
The idea of correlating class and levels of rudeness sounds ridiculous to me.
LOL!
Yep, there have also been times when ‘you’re supposed to have a bell’ has been the accusation, but I can counter that with ‘I know but I find them very impersonal, I’d much rather just call out ‘good morning’ ‘
Noted, for future use 🙂
BTW – I am as middle class as they come
Probably explains why you come across as so arsey a lot of the time. 😆 🤣 😂
🙂
Maybe its a defining characteristic of the middle classes 🙂
Over the years the rudest folk I have encountered have nearly all been middle class folk
I ride the same paths you do. Over the years I have been punched, spat at, had a bottle dropped on me (missed), been chased after by a group of youths who subsequently beat the shit out of someone, had people deliberately jump at me, had people refusing to make space to allow me to pass etc as well as a more general failure to share the space gracefully. I may be stereotyping here, but in all but the last case I’m pretty sure they were working class people. When it comes to the last one I’ve not noticed any particular class predominating.
No – I describe two incidents that follow a pattern of a dozen or more over a decade or two
Over the years the rudest folk I have encountered have nearly all been middle class folk
BTW – I am as middle class as they come
Fair enough. Sounds more like confirmation bias.
You still haven't defined middle class either. What is it?
I live in Colinton (south-west Edinburgh) which is about as middle class as you get. We did have an incident of knife crime last year, but that was at a dinner party where one of our neighbours was spotted holding his knife like a pen).
I ride mostly up in the Pentlands, just behind the village, and have to say that 99% of the folk I meet (mostly middle class I suspect) walkers, runners, horse riders etc are extremely polite and friendly.
Fair enough. Sounds more like confirmation bias.
How do you know? Unless you know for a fact that TJ was brought up to believe that middle-class wallahs are ruder and have a misplaced sense of entitlement, as opposed to finding out for himself, you aren't really in a position to say that.
You still haven’t defined middle class either.
For someone who apparently doesn't know what middle-class means you sound surprisingly touchy.
I ride mostly up in the Pentlands, just behind the village, and have to say that 99% of the folk I meet (mostly middle class I suspect) walkers, runners, horse riders etc are extremely polite and friendly.
@kennyp, is that the case on the Water of Leith? The WoL through Colinton Dells and out to Currie is the absolute worst place in town for entitled dicks filling the path and, if they have a dog, letting it tear about under your wheels. I bought the bell I use with that stretch of path specifically in mind. Meanwhile, in the much more awkward bits through Slateford and Longstone it's fine.
Up the Pentlands is fine.
I'm also with TJ in not thanking people who don't actually do anything. Why would you?
Yep, there have also been times when ‘you’re supposed to have a bell’ has been the accusation, but I can counter that with ‘I know but I find them very impersonal, I’d much rather just call out ‘good morning’ ‘
Noted, for future use 🙂
You can also point out that it hasnt been a requirement to have one since 1999 - and that you prefer to use a cheery "good morning"
@munrobiker yes I ride that bit quite often. It's a handy and sheltered way of getting out to Balerno easily when the westerly wind is blowing (getting lazy in my old age) then coming back over the hills with a tailwind. The actual Dell itself I tend to walk more than bike.
Yes there are certainly more people, and some do block the path a bit, but they don't tend (to me at least) to come across as entitled. They sometimes block the narrower bits of path when chatting to each other two or three abreast, but I probably do too when out walking with friends. I've never had any problem getting them to move and almost always get a smile or "Nice day for it" as I go past.
As for thanking people who haven't done anything, I don't tend to either but do tend to smile and say "Hi" as I go past.
Part of this is maybe me being slower and more laid back as I get older, not sure.
The one exception I remember. Old bloke on the Lymphoy Rd (just after the first lockdown) shouted at me for not having a bell, and how I could have infected him. I stopped, politely pointed out I'd called out but he didn't hear me, and that I passed him at a distance of about six feet, and was "near" him for about a fraction of a second. I also pointed out he was failing to see the irony of complaining about the risk of infection while shouting into my face. Very much the exception though. And I found it quite funny.
I had an incident with 3 entitled "morningside matrons"a few years back on the WOL. i was leading a group on a very narrow section. came up behind the 3 who were oblivious to our presence - probably because I did not get particularly close to them. I followed them for a minute or two at a slow walking pace then when we got to a wider bit politely asked " excuse me - can we squeeze past please?" ( too close to them for the bell)
Immediate mouthful of abuse from one of them. I stopped, waved the guys I was leading thru and asked her " I slowed to walking pace, waited until we were off the narrow bit, asked politely if we could get past. What else do you want me to do?" the mouthy one went radge ( 😉 ) shouting at me but her pals were embarrassed and pulled her away.
Thats the sort of situation I find with these middle class folk. That there is just nothing you can do to appease them.
Think about that though.
One of them kicked off. The rest were embarrassed and telling her to cool it. You've literally just described a minority.
One of them kicked off. The rest were embarrassed and telling her to cool it. You’ve literally just described a minority.
Yep, and with the conclusion drawn a good example of confirmation bias.
You’ve literally just described a minority.
I don't think TJ ever claimed that it was a "majority" of middle-class walkers?
the mouthy one went radge ( 😉 ) shouting at me but her pals were embarrassed and pulled her away
Not condoning her behaviour, but we have no idea what is going on in other people's lives when we see them acting irrationally. She could be suffering from severe anxiety, depression or other mental illness be recently bereaved etc. etc. It is at least as likely is it not, that some shit in her personal life was the cause of her outburst and poor behaviour, rather than being 'middle class' or from a particular part of Edinburgh?
Of course its not a majority. Its one in thousands!
Jeepers guys - just a observation that I wondered if anyone else had noticed
How do you know? Unless you know for a fact that TJ was brought up to believe that middle-class wallahs are ruder and have a misplaced sense of entitlement, as opposed to finding out for himself, you aren’t really in a position to say that.
I say what it sounds like to me if that's OK with you, and it sounds like confirmation bias. I could be wrong though I agree but subsequent posting points towards this IMO.
You sound extremely touchy though.
You sound extremely touchy though.
Do I?
What do you think I am complaining about?
It is at least as likely is it not
I don't think it is. I think it's much more likely they're rude.
I have to agree with the original observation - I've cycled in and around Glasgow and it's northern suburbs for decades and I have to say that it's noticeable that there is a propensity for self-entitled people, who are deliberately awkward and obstructive, in the more affluent areas.
To be honest it’s not worth micro analysing these situations that much.
Pretty much my view. A good portion of my riding is on shared use paths (railway paths), and in general horse riders are always polite, most dog walkers are polite and understanding, but some don’t see things from another user’s perspective (e.g. dogs with poor recall running all over the place). A small number are impolite. I’ve come to take the same view with these that I do with close passes on the road - if I get wound up by them it’ll only spoil my ride, so I either be as polite as I can or say nothing and move on. I’ve only challenged people in extremis, e.g. after I’ve actually been bitten by a dog.