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Just came across this random bit of pop psychology on LinkIn (our CEO posted it!).
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51684578486_393ef0004d.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51684578486_393ef0004d.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2mKbYwb ]Myers Briggs earning averages[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr
There is nobody of any standing in the world of actual Psychology that thinks Myers Briggs has any validity.
Its pure Barnumn statments amixed in with some post hoc stuff. Utter utter bollocks.
I am sure you know this, nothing you posted above do you claim its accurate.
Here is a good article about it.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/give-and-take/201309/goodbye-mbti-the-fad-won-t-die
There is nobody of any standing in the world of actual Psychology that thinks Myers Briggs has any validity.
Typical INFP response 🙂
Typical INFP response
Bravo!
Ha yes very good!
Typical INFP response 🙂
Typical Capricorn response 🙂
What is damning is nothing to do with MB. The highest paid women are barely scraping past the lowest paid men.
At times like these I think Nan Taylor has the best response.
What is damning
Damming, but possibly not at all surprising.
Every time I do that stupid test I get a different result. Sadly my salary stays exactly the same though.
To the Capricorn comment, a plot of zodiac sign against ‘average’ wage would be as valid and informative.
There are a number of flaws with those plots that even without the nonsense of M-B make me wish people wouldn’t bother. Your CEO should’ve thought twice before posting that on LinkedIn. Unless she’s the CEO of goop?
What was your CEO's point?
That introverts should receive a pay rise?
“There is nobody of any standing in the world of actual Psychology that thinks Myers Briggs has any validity.”
This.
I am a research Psychologist and can confirm 5plusn8’s comment.
I'm an INFP, and I am served Bentley adverts.
Deming, not damming.
Is the proposition not that different personalities do better in in different jobs due to the unconscious bias (or conscious) of the existing hierarchy thus certain personality 'traits' are some how more rewarded in society than others?
To quote a friend of mine who is a psychologist and business coach...
"These things are great - right up until the point where you actually believe it."
DB: The issue is MBI doesn’t measure personality. Therefore the premise is moot.
So basically it's a load of trendy bullshit that management types with no critical thinking skills lap up with gay abandon?
To quote a friend of mine who is a psychologist and business coach…
“These things are great – right up until the point where you actually believe it.”
I thought the traits of my given personality type nailed me to the wall, I then spent some time trying to develop the associated weaknesses for the personality which has served me well professionally.
“There is nobody of any standing in the world of actual Psychology that thinks Myers Briggs has any validity.”
Can they please tell this to the HR / Recruter drones.
The highest paid women are barely scraping past the lowest paid men.
THere's the phrase "a woman's work is never done" isn't there...
Maybe if they actually DID the work, they'd get paid the same.
Makes you think...
DrP
(Of course, this is a JOKE!, but one i LOVE to say in front of my OH's feminazi 15 year old daughter!!!)
What is damning is nothing to do with MB. The highest paid women are barely scraping past the lowest paid men.
Not really - Karen Brady is paid rather more than the lowest-paid men. But if you look at, say, the top 20% of women, they're obviously overtaken by perhaps the top 50% of men, or something like.
The problem is the incredibly difficult causes that tie into it, including the fact that men are far more likely to have senior jobs than women, linked closely to societal expectations that women are the childminders and men should focus on their careers; men's propensity to bullshit their way into overpaying jobs vs women's propensity to underestimate their worth etc.
Myers Briggs tells you more about the people who use it than anything else. Its popular in America where Qanon is also popular for example.
Can they please tell this to the HR / Recruter drones.
I think they have tried but when asked for a equally simple replacement run into the obvious problem that reality isnt as simple.
Way back when I did some psychology as part of my degree and had a couple of lectures dedicated to myers briggs etc. The rational behind it was they were junk but since they are heavily used in graduate recruitment might as well learn about them and implicit in it how to game them.
our former parent company imposed two operations managers onto us. at the first management getaway meeting, they insisted we did a MB exercise and then started to make changes based on the outcomes, enabled and empowered by the parent co.
It was a fricking disaster. This, combined with their other changes, resulted in many of our most long-serving staff leaving us and nearly killed the business.
Thankfully the parent co later sold us.
Of course, this is a JOKE!, but one i LOVE to say in front of my OH’s feminazi 15 year old daughter!!!
I ran this via Mrs P.
Response:
‘If he was really running that by a 15yr-old feminist then he would l o s e’
Ha!!
We have a love hate relationship....
I love her..
She hates me..kinda!
She baked me a birthday cake with the words "this does not mean I like you.." written on it!!!!
I think she likes me 😉
DrP
I ran this via Mrs P.
Response:
‘If he was really running that by a 15yr-old feminist then he would l o s e’
If that's Mrs P. in the gif, tell her a real winner would have the "L" the right way round. Loser.
🙂
My last manager loved this bollocks. I did quite like playing with her and gaming the outcome. she like many others fail to even comprehend that people can learn to occupy more than one very type.
To quote a friend of mine who is a psychologist and business coach…
The word for this occupation is snake-oil salesman. Joking before anybody starts crying.
Not joking or am I? Ooh psychology
To the Capricorn comment, a plot of zodiac sign against ‘average’ wage would be as valid and informative
There is actually a link between star sign and incomes though.
It has bugger all to do with astrology obviously, but (in England and Wales) September/October/November babies tend to do a bit better (and well into adulthood) than June/July/August babies, just because of the way the school year works.
Being a libra has given me an advantage in life
I'd actually love to see a signs of the zodiac income chart.
Meg says you will earn more if you’re tall and a Pisces, with a short beard and dark brown hair.
a real winner would have the “L” the right way round.
Meg says you will earn more if you’re tall
I think that correlation is pretty true....
To be exact, the researchers estimate that each additional centimeter of height is associated with a 1.30% increase in annual income. In other words, a person who is 5 feet 6 inches making $50,000 per year would expect to make about $2,000 more if they were 5 feet 7 inches, and $4,000 more if they were 5 feet 8 inches. Importantly, this estimation assumes other factors associated with earning potential — for instance, gender, age, years of schooling, and location — are held equal.
Conversely if you’re short you’re likely to live longer.
My over paid manager was born on the cusp of Leo and Capricorn. He was a leprechaun
Makes you think about his pot of gold
September-born ENTJ here, reporting for duty. Actually, I’m here to take over.
DB: The issue is MBI doesn’t measure personality. Therefore the premise is moot.
Logical fallacy ...
A premise is that certain jobs benefit from certain characteristics.
To quote a friend of mine who is a psychologist and business coach…
“These things are great – right up until the point where you actually believe it.”
Which is ironic.
Obviously one of the personality traits to be a psychologist and business coach is you need to have a casual relationship to truth.
What is damning is nothing to do with MB. The highest paid women are barely scraping past the lowest paid men.
A perfect example ... the statement is very obviously false and hence will be perceived differently by different people or even by the same people with a myriad of different things that alter that.
Some will just see this as a blatant lie whereas others could even believe it but most/many people will see it somewhere between the two.
Similar type statements are "the oldest pub in England" or "the best kebab shop in Birmingham" some people will point black refuse to patronise either as they find it offensive, others will see it as a bit of a laugh .. some might even believe it.
Possibly weirder is a modifier might depend what time of day, time of year or how many other false claims or not they have been exposed to that day.
In the same way some might try and justify lies as "the end justifies the means" ... or just focus on the grey areas in the statement. are barely scraping past is a bit of a getout... it might mean a few pounds or it might mean hundreds of thousands or millions as its not defined.
To go back to the higher/lower paid jobs.
Lying is a requirement for many well paid jobs.
The problem perhaps is when this is projected downwards to jobs that go badly wrong if they are not done honestly.
A classic example is NASA where engineers were forced to lie to keep jobs but given management tools to cope. e.g. told to use words like "significant" in technical reports to hide design issues.
I have no idea what your point is....
A classic example is NASA where engineers were forced to lie to keep jobs but given management tools to cope. e.g. told to use words like “significant” in technical reports to hide design issues.
One of the things I learned early on in my career was to use words like "probably" or "highly likely" just in case you're wrong.
Oft demonstrated on STW, where as soon as you state something explicitly, people fall over each other to tell you how incorrect you are.
A perfect example … the statement is very obviously false
An ironic QED.
(... probably)
Conversely if you’re short you’re likely to live longer.
Is this because you get less stressed because more things go over your head?
Similar type statements are “the oldest pub in England” or “the best kebab shop in Birmingham”
I always wonder about these sorts of claims, "says who?" The Birmingham Kebab Shop Council? We went to Cornwall recently, the number of pasty shops boasting some accolade or other was astounding.
Conversely if you’re short you’re likely to live longer.
but get a lot less "action"
Myers Briggs tells you more about the people who use it than anything else. Its popular in America where Qanon is also popular for example.
It is popular the world over for people who like to compartmentalise anything and everything and believe that everyone adheres to stereotypes… It’s very popular for the same reason that we all pay different prices rather than a flat rate for our car insurance.
It is marginally useful as a recruitment tool to understand an individuals dominant tendencies I would argue, but should the recruiters be so naïve as to use MBTI as a rule for recruitment rather than focusing on skills and experience, then I suspect their career in recruitment would be short lived and unsuccessful!
For instance, I return ENTP every time I’ve taken that test, and display some strong character traits of a typical ENTP… You decide to put me in that box and decide that’s how I will always behave, and I’d surprise you on a very regular basis for sure!
The skill to ANY tool is knowing when and where to successfully apply it, and when and where it’s going to do more harm than good. MBTI is like an adjustable wrench in that respect, rather than a precision tool kit.
https://www.lacan.upc.edu/admoreWeb/2018/05/all-models-are-wrong-but-some-are-useful-george-e-p-box/
MBTI is like an adjustable wrench in that respect, rather than a precision tool kit.
Nope its more like a ADE 651 bomb detector. The principles it works on are junk and as are the results.
What's the view of the validity of Meredith Belbin's team roles?