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In response to the the daily mail's -low by their own standards- attack on ed's dad
[url= https://twitter.com/search?q=%23mydadhatedbritain&src=hash&f=realtime ]#mydadhatedbritain[/url]
the paper that supported hitler and mussolini calling ralph milliband unpatriotic
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24343074
its emerged that while ralph was in the navy paul dacres dad was a showbiz reporter for the express
I hate tory Britain. They've sold off all our industry so we now have a minuscule manufacturing sector and we pay a fortune for utilities and travel.
But, you know, the private sector is where it's at, sod the public, keep the shareholders happy.
I'm with Ed's dad (maybe not quite the peoples revolt part though...)
low by their own standards
I find this quite shocking. I didn't know the Daily Mail had any standards.
I have a chrome addon now that redirects me to pictures of Kittens and mugs of tea every time i'm linked to the dailymail.
No more clickbait for me
I wonder if the Mail will show parity and highlight Cameron's fathers tax affairs?
B* H Kimbers, why make us click on that awful website?!?
its got a hashtag thats fairwarning imho
fascist scum. disgraceful excuse for a newspaper
An awful abuse of their position as a well read newspaper as they are pissed off about press regulation. the irony is the hatchet piece shows why we need to regulate them as they cannot do it themselves. Worse they were utterly unrepentant in their reply
Its not fair to do a character assassination of someone's father like this whether you agree with them or not. Even criminal ave some standards so it seems only [some]journos are without a moral code or conscience.
Portraying ed as some sort of rampant socialist is equally at odds with reality.
Problem is, a lot of the people who read the mail, believe every single word.
I agree with JY, the reply looks worse than the original.
I don't get the whole 'the Mail supported the Nazis' stick. I mean, it's not like anybody currently linked with the paper (owners, employees, shareholders, whoever) was in any way a part of this support. Further, plenty of German (now global) companies must have supported the Nazis at the time. Do we hold this against them? Are modern Germans accountable for the support their ancestors gave the Nazis? Of course not. So why beat the Mail with it?
The elephant in the room is that the Labour leader's Dad was a vocal Far Left extremist. Maybe a good start would be for milliband to distance himself from Marxist doctrine..
Personally, I'd rather he embraced it.enfht - MemberThe elephant in the room is that the Labour leader's Dad was a vocal Far Left extremist. Maybe a good start would be for milliband to distance himself from Marxist doctrine..
I'd like to see nice purge of the right wing elements in Britain.
We could turn Essex into a nice internment camp for Ayn Rand apologists, EDL/UKIP voters and anyone, anyone who has ever said 'You know, Thatcher had a point'.
Fence it off and bomb it daily with human waste collected from the remainder of Britain.
Not something I normally say but JY+1
Rusty Spanner for President!
Rusty Spanner for President!
Gulag commandant would be more his thing by the sound of him.
So why beat the Mail with it?
I dont think anyone really uses it against them more some pointed out their past was less than glorious. Given this is the better question not why they used something [ untrue]from the distant past [ of which he is not responsible] to beat up ed?
Maybe a good start would be for milliband to distance himself from Marxist doctrine..
if you think the current labour party and leader is not some distance from marxist doctrine then you must be a swivel eyed right wing loon.
The reason why people mention the mails support of the Nazi's, is to remind others that the mail is normally wrong.
Are modern Germans accountable for the support their ancestors gave the Nazis?
But the Daily Mail was never a German newspaper, it was a British paper. A British newspaper that supported the Nazis, despite the fact that, among other things, Nazi persecution of Jews was a well known fact. The Daily Mail didn't cease to support the Nazis because they "saw the error of their ways", they stopped supporting them because doing so would have been illegal.
And the Daily Mail's support for the Nazis is significant to this story because as a Jew Miliband's father would have been accused by the Nazis of "hating Germany". So it's interesting that the Daily Mail, in a classic extreme right-wing tactic, now accuse Miliband's father of having hated Britain.
You might think that the Daily Mail's well established support for the Nazis, with their carefully thought out articles, is just water under the bridge which should all be forgotten, but the Daily Mail's entire case that Miliband's father hated Britain relies on a single alleged comment, comprising of 4 sentences, that Ralph Miliband wrote as a 17 year old in his diary 72 years ago.
So I think reminding the Daily Mail of their own past is fair comment. Specially when they are using the classic extreme right-wing smear tactic of accusing others of being unpatriotic.
5thElefant - MemberRusty Spanner for President!
Gulag commandant would be more his thing by the sound of him.
Ohhh, I do like a nice uniform.
Basically, I was trying to balance out the rampant, right wing, scaremongering tossery spouted by enfht with an equally realistic and well thought through alternative.
Seriously, the right wingers on here are getting out of hand.
It's like a meeting of the Young Conservatives at times - hateful, vitriolic nonsense spouted by frothing misanthropes.
Chill out, righties.
Or it's Essex and excrement for the lot of you.
We could turn Essex into a nice internment camp for Ayn Rand apologists, EDL/UKIP voters and anyone, anyone who has ever said 'You know, Thatcher had a point'.
'could'?
Isn't this already the case?
Is there a difference between Essex and excrement? 😛
Now now, Essex gave us Dr Feelgood, Laura Trott & Wat Tyler.
Mind you, it also gave us Noel Edmonds, Ronnie O'Sullivan & Darren Day, so on balance, RELEASE THE TURDS......
if you think
I think accusing enfht of "thinking" at all is the looniest thing I've seen written on this forum in quite a while.
I'm no supporter of Ed, but I really think that the DM has gone beyond the pale (again). Even as a fan of free market economics, I'd be very happy to buy Ed's Dad a pint (if he were still alive and popped into my local) and have a chat with him about life, the universe and everything, whereas I'd never get tired of slapping Paul Dacre in the face.
I even think that Ed has shown a bit of backbone here, standing up to the bullies at the DM - if there's a fight in the car park, Ed, we'll hold your coat!
[b]"I hate tory Britain. They've sold off all our industry so we now have a minuscule manufacturing sector and we pay a fortune for utilities and travel. "[/b]
That's what Ed and NuLab want you to believe and propagate at every opportunity - some rather rather inconvenient facts include:
1. In some manufacturing sectors we now make and export more than we did in the 1970's e.g. automotive, life sciences
http://www.smmt.co.uk/2013/01/uk-car-manufacturing-achieves-all-time-record-exports-in-2012/
2. manufacturing employment has risen over the last 3 years as UKTI's efforts to extend UK supply chains around successful industry sectors kicks in
3. we earn more from designing the intellectual property in some sectors than we would ever earn from the actual fabrication e.g. ARM Plc who last year received license fees on 8.7 Billion microprocessors
4. Utilities in the UK are middle of the range for price compared to the rest of Europe. When you strip out the CO2 escalator / sustainable energy premium added on top of prices by Milliband when he was in power / Chris Huhne 2 years ago, our actual energy costs are amongst the cheapest in Europe.
As for the "selling everything off" the rest of Europe has been doing this with the notable exception of France. Postal services in Germany and Netherlands were privatised years ago, First Group already and National Express are just about to take over train franchises in Germany and what was "British Gas" is now making Billions for the UK as "BG Group" who are developing LNG infrastructure in Brazil, Oman, Australia, Egypt, USA to name but a few places. Oh, and National Grid are pretty busy in the USA these days.
The UK is actually doing pretty well - let's not talk down a country and industries that are consistently punching above their weight on the world stage.
Can we stop pissing about. Call his out as anti semitism pure and simple and get the police involved. It's beyond low.
DM has probably done ed a favour.
He's always come across as a bit crap. Now he can stand up and shout, and people will probably support him on this.
our actual energy costs are amongst the cheapest in Europe.
I would think this is due to a lack of investment in new plants. When the utility company have no option to build new plant or repair a significant part of the network due to age the cost of our energy is going to sky-rocket.
I don't get the whole 'the Mail supported the Nazis' stick. I mean, it's not like anybody currently linked with the paper (owners, employees, shareholders, whoever) was in any way a part of this support. Further, plenty of German (now global) companies must have supported the Nazis at the time. Do we hold this against them? Are modern Germans accountable for the support their ancestors gave the Nazis? Of course not. So why beat the Mail with it?
Well isn't the current owner the grandson of Lord Rothermere (he of 'hurrah for the blackshirts' fame)? Has he ever renounced his relatives views (like Ed is being asked to do) I wonder? Especially relevant given the constant stream of bigoted hate-mongering bile that the Mail puts out.
Remember how when Thatcher died they were so outraged about the lack of respect shown to the deceased. But now they think it's ok to make puns about someone's father's grave.
A new low for the Mail. And that's saying something.
Trying to tie it to freedom of the press is almost hilarious in its cynicism.
Junkyard - lazarus
Portraying ed as some sort of rampant socialist is equally at odds with reality.
I agree, that man is many things but [i]rampant[/i] is not a word that would spring into my head
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Has anyone pointed out to the Daily Mail how unpatriotic it is to constantly be hysterically shouting that this country has become some kind of crime-infested socialist nightmare overrun with dangerous immigrants and benefit cheats. Despite the fact that actually in general this country is a great place to live (apart from the Daily Mail).
Bit more unpatriotic than not being a big fan of the church, the monarchy and the Falklands war I would say.
I don't get the whole 'the Mail supported the Nazis' stick. I mean, it's not like anybody currently linked with the paper
if youre going to attack someone by digging up a 1 line diary entry that his teenage dad wrote and extrapolate that to him hating his country despite him then going to fight for it in the armed forces, then youre open to criticism of your newspaper at that time, especially when they were writing editorials in praise of the nazi party and dismissing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Mail"The minor misdeeds of individual Nazis would be submerged by the immense benefits the new regime is already bestowing upon Germany"
The Telegraph republished their 1994 obituary of Ralph Miliband:
Sadly nothing about his 'evil legacy' or how he 'spent his entire life attempting to convert the impressionable young to his poisonous creed?'.
I thought this a right non-story and wouldn't be interested in it at all..but..I was absolutely fascinated by the bumbling, incoherant idiot Ed became when trying to defend his dad on the news.
"i'll use my platform as, as a... son..". what? what a useless dork.
From the Huff...
Speaking on the Today programme on Tuesday morning, David Cameron said he understood Miliband’s anger about his father but wouldn’t criticise the Mail, saying he had not read the original piece. Health secretary Jeremy Hunt refused to condemn the Mail as well, preferring to highlight Ralph Miliband’s opposition to free markets in an interview with the BBC News Channel.
Not that I believe for a second that Cameron came on to the Today programme without being briefed on the Mail article, but Hunt's response was [i]really[/i] nice.
1. In some manufacturing sectors we now make and export more than we did in the 1970's e.g. automotive, life scienceshttp://www.smmt.co.uk/2013/01/uk-car-manufacturing-achieves-all-time-record-exports-in-2012/
2. manufacturing employment has risen over the last 3 years as UKTI's efforts to extend UK supply chains around successful industry sectors kicks in
When you mean we, do you mean Honda, Nissan, Toyota, BMW, Tata, and the like?
3. we earn more from designing the intellectual property in some sectors than we would ever earn from the actual fabrication e.g. ARM Plc who last year received license fees on 8.7 Billion microprocessors
Well that's great, I'm sure everyone in the country could be employed doing this sort of stuff...er, hang on.
4. Utilities in the UK are middle of the range for price compared to the rest of Europe. When you strip out the CO2 escalator / sustainable energy premium added on top of prices by Milliband when he was in power / Chris Huhne 2 years ago, our actual energy costs are amongst the cheapest in Europe.
That's great, due to privatisation and the subsequent lack of infrastructure investment which may cause power cuts within a few years, we finally get to build new nuclear reactors, which aren't going to pay for themselves. Built by EDF I do believe. EDF, the energy supplier owner by the FRENCH Government.
As for the "selling everything off" the rest of Europe has been doing this with the notable exception of France. Postal services in Germany and Netherlands were privatised years ago, First Group already and National Express are just about to take over train franchises in Germany and what was "British Gas" is now making Billions for the UK as "BG Group" who are developing LNG infrastructure in Brazil, Oman, Australia, Egypt, USA to name but a few places. Oh, and National Grid are pretty busy in the USA these days.
Great again, It's good to see a former nationalised company like British gas making money for it's shareholders, Like international energy supplier does EDF does for it's shareholder.
The UK is actually doing pretty well - let's not talk down a country and industries that are consistently punching above their weight on the world stage.
Yep doing pretty well. For the few.
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Putting aside the emotional impact of seeing his father's name dragged through the mud, politically I think this will work in Ed's favour - conservative conference messages aren't gaining any traction as long as this is across the press.
DezB - MemberI was absolutely fascinated by the bumbling, incoherant idiot Ed became when trying to defend his dad on the news.
"i'll use my platform as, as a... son..". what? what a useless dork.
I noticed that he appeared to be struggling expressing himself too, but I came to a rather different conclusion.
I got the impression that he was just getting a little emotional, which for me doesn't automatically mean that the person is a useless dork or an incoherent idiot.
Specially when they are in the process of defending a deceased parent from nasty unfounded lies.
alistair campbell is tearing the poor daily mail dep ed a new one on newsnight right now
He's quite cross isn't he? Refreshing to see that at least.
Daily Mail is the true poison in British life
Supreme annihilation of the Daily Mail journo by Alistair Campbell. I think the Tory party must be hating all this as its stealing all the limelight from their conference announcements, undermining one of its key media supporters, and helping Miliband's public profile - a triple whammy 😀
Loving the telegraph response, very well played.
Yep the Telegraph said all that needed to be said with that.
enfht - Member
The elephant in the room is that the Labour leader's Dad was a vocal Far Left extremist. Maybe a good start would be for milliband to distance himself from Marxist doctrine..
Mate..I think he did that quite convincingly when he joined New Labour, that makes him centre right, probably more right wing than Ken Clarke
I think the Daily Telegraph might be very wisely showing any potentially disillusioned Daily Mail readers that there is an alternative to the gutter.
you can see malcolm tucker vs the daily mail here
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24361040 ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-2436104[/url]0
(takes a while to get going)
heres a highlighted bit
[i] which for me doesn't automatically mean that the person is a useless dork or an incoherent idiot.[/i]
It did for me. If there was a time he needed to express himself clearly, I thought it should be then. Although I think he's a dork anyway.
dont speak ill of your next pm DezB!, like most people I thought he came accross quite well
ironically the daily mail has gifted Ed another popularity boost
hes now the man who stood up against; the Daily mail over his father, Murdoch over press regulation, Hague and Cameron over Syria, The Unions over funding and the Utilities companies
It did for me.
I could see that, the clue was in you posting : [i]"the bumbling, incoherant idiot"[/i] and [i]"what a useless dork".[/i]
.
Although I think he's a dork anyway.
And that there probably goes to the very heart of the issue, ie, you don't like Miliband anyway, and like the Daily Mail you want to attack him by using the furore which the lies about his father caused.
It was too good an opportunity for you to miss I suspect.
I saw this on the news yesterday and thought WHAT THE ****.
Even [b][u]IF[/u][/b] his Dad didn't like Britain whats that got to do with his son?
My Dad was his own man and boy I'm nothing like him. Idiots.
[i]It was too good an opportunity for you to miss I suspect.[/i]
Yeah, that was it 🙄
Given the track record of the Tories 'Electoral Guru' Lynton Crosby, I wouldn't be remotely surprised to find his nasty, grubby fingerprints all over this 'story'.
I doubt its panning out as they'd have hoped
Yeah, that was it
Yep, your "I think he's a dork anyway" claim shows that it wasn't his performance yesterday which led you to your conclusion.
binners - Member
Given the track record of the Tories 'Electoral Guru' Lynton Crosby, I wouldn't be remotely surprised to find his nasty, grubby fingerprints all over this 'story'.I doubt its panning out as they'd have hoped
Torys like Gove refusing to condem the hatchet job only diminish their standing while raising Ed's
I wonder about the thought processes going on inside the 'mind' of whoever approve the publication of the article. Did they really think that smearing Miliband's father would somehow reflect badly on his son? There must be some warped logic going on there...
So now we have the hat trick of conference spoilers - Cable, McBride and The Wail (Bloom if you are being generous). Must make the planners mad when their work gets derailed and the headlines grabbed.
It will be interesting to watch Cameron is afternoon. Milliband has re-defined the battle ground and held his first service game comfortably. Cameron has to respond quickly with a few aces while the Wail has soaked his balls!!!!
AC makes some decent points on Newsnight but hard to take any bully/coward stuff from him. Lovely when the wail bloke effectively said that he was describing himself (good point) and AC replied, "I am not a coward.!"....brilliant!
Torys like Gove refusing to condem the hatchet job only diminish their standing while raising Ed's
Have any actually came out and condemned it?
It really is an absolutely hateful piece. The depths to which the Mail will sink continues to amaze me.
I would have thought any decent human being would condemn it without a second thought
These are tories though, not decent human beings.
I think what this whole thing clearly shows is how rattled the Tories/Right wing press were by Milliband having a surprisingly well-received conference speech, and striking a chord with a lot of people.
So rather than just being able to mock him for being weak/Wallace etc, as previously, they've now moved into the thoroughly nasty, gutter-level attack mode they specialise in (as it comes so naturally to the vile, spiteful scumbags).
Unfortunately this is merely firing the starting gun in what will be a 20 month campaign of out and out nastiness from that Tories, and the moral-vacuum their friends in the press operate in. Which hopefully will expose th lie to anyone who fell for Daves "Detoxification of the Tory Brand". They clearly haven't thought that through, as they judge everyone else by their own warped 'morals'. But again, its their default position when not getting everything their own way. They can't help themselves
I got the impression that he was just getting a little emotional, which for me doesn't automatically mean that the person is a useless dork or an incoherent idiot.
I agree. He just came across as someone who was upset that his dad had been slagged off in public. As we all would be.
It will be interesting to watch Cameron is afternoon.
the David "gordon gekko" Cameron greed is good speech.
And the ironic thing is that they really don't need to stoop so low in order to eviscerate 'labour's strategy... In fact if they only wait long enough 'Labour' will self-destruct without any help.
I think the torys reluctance to condemn the mail on this, especially gove and hunt is partly because they dont want it used to further the press regulation argument (they are both vocal supporters of self regulation/friends of murdoch)
but mostly its about fear of the daily mail, as much as most people on stw are shocked by the rag, its still incredibly powerful and popular.
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/daily-mail-hates-everyone-in-britain-2013100279973
The Daily Mash sums it all up very well, as usual. 🙂
kimbers - MemberTorys like Gove refusing to condem the hatchet job only diminish their standing while raising Ed's
I think you underestimate how diminished Gove's standing already is, when everyone in the country wants to punch you on the nose, what have you got to lose?
DezB - Member
"i'll use my platform as, as a... son..". what? what a useless dork.
Why did you not finish the quote? Cheap.
Gove was funny on QT last week as he seems to be trying out a new persona. He was polite and complementary about D Alexander especially and there was the great bit when Will Self pulled him up on it. But when pressed, he v quickly reverted to type. The media coaching clearly requires a lot more work!
Kimbers, v true it is frightening to think that the Wail remains the most widely read news website - althought that is a mis-misnomer - and has considerable power. This is where I think it is easy for "the freedom of the press" to slip easily into the "tyranny of a few/minority." And we have seen all the consequences very clearly.
I can't face looking at the website today. Have they continued the story?
the Wail remains the most widely read news website
It was knocked into second place earlier this year by the Guardian, have they regained first place ?
[url= http://www.journalism.co.uk/news/nrs-guardian-co-uk-is-uk-s-top-monthly-news-site/s2/a553108/ ]Guardian.co.uk most read newspaper site in UK in March[/url]
Gove was funny on QT last week as he seems to be trying out a new persona. He was polite and complementary about D Alexander especially and there was the great bit when Will Self pulled him up on it. But when pressed, he v quickly reverted to type. The media coaching clearly requires a lot more work!
Apparently he was under threat of death from Dave and [s]Malcolm Tucker[/s] Lynton Crosby 'not to come across like the spokesman for Centrica', which given the main talking point, gave him very little room for maneuver. Until his natural instincts for a ruck took over, of course
[i]Why did you not finish the quote? Cheap.[/i]
My sole purpose was to attack Miliband. Don't know why I didn't start a new thread about it, to be honest.
I had missed that Ernie - that's (some) relief! I wonder if TG will introduce subscriptions soon?
Binners - it was all very odd with Gove. Self came over as a bit of a **** as well. Of the panel, I thought Alexander did the best job - calm, considered, handled the difficult stuff (esp re Milliband - ed and dave) well etc.
Personal attacks on his dad aside, Milliband must be enjoying his turn of fortune.
THM - Will Self is a pompous, self-regarding arse! Just not quite as much of a pompous, self-regarding arse as Gove 😉
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And you're right. Milliband is indeed having a very good week. Its hard to see how Dave's going to address the issues he raised (which he has too) without appearing that he's just defending the narrow corporate interests who fund his party.
Hang on a minute... isn't that what the labour party is meant to be doing? Who'd have thunk it eh?
As I said before, I think Milliband's tactics were good but the policy recommendations pretty weak. But they have worked. I think CMD should seek to clearly differentiate himself, not move to cover the same ground. Osborne tried that with the (subtle?) 'we are not out of the woods yet' argument. But FWIW, I do hope that Cameron sets out a very clear pro-business agenda. While he is not correct in saying that "its not government that creates jobs, its businesses", his sentiments are correct IMO as is the idea that "profit, wealth creation, tax cuts and enterprise" are not [i]in themselves[/i] bad words. There is a fine line between addressing income inequality (even though it is currently narrowing 😉 ) and simply business bashing - Milliband is walking a fine line here but succeeding. CMD needs to do likewise.
I think it will be quite refreshing to see Labour and the Tories differentiating themselves more and standing up for the interests that they are meant to represent. I see no harm in that, indeed, on the contrary I think that it should be encouraged.
But if the budget surplus idea gets pushed again - I will find it interesting that the Tories will ultimately prove closer to Keynesian economics than Labour.
CMD wore "the club tie" on Andrew Marr- will he be so bold as to do so again!?!
Labour seems, ironically, to have learned from Dave. They're facing an unpopular government, same as he was (though maybe not [i]quite[/i] as unpoular as Comrade Gordon).
Dave went into the last election with virtually no firm policies. Yes, he made vague, nondescript noises about certain populist things, but policy commitments? Detail? ....erm... no.
Milliband has made only one commitment that I can see. The rest is a vague (undeliverable) wish-list. But its forced Dave into a corner he clearly doesn't want to be in. Difficult to do your (totally unconvincing, at best) man-of-the-people shtick when you've got your corporate backers to keep happy, and well over half your parties funding is coming from hedge funds and private equity
I bet there's been some late nights re-writing speeches in the last week!
Anyway.. back to the topic... I reckon the Mail will have inadvertently ended up doing Ed a favour here. I don't think many people other than Paul Dacre will consider having a go at someones dead father to be fair game
According to the DM list [b]I[/b] hate Britain,
Disapprove of the royal family - check
Don't like the church - check
Don't like some other large institutions (posh schools for example) - check
Served in the armed forces - check
Should i hide from the rabid right wing?