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£621 a year.
Waster water charge = £341 (rateable charge £234 x £1,458)
Water charge = £280
If a meter is fitted will the wastewater charge also fall?
Worthwhile hassle?
No. We are never in really.
You should try living in Goa, you wouldn't waste any water at all then! & you'd bollock the Russians for leaving the taps running! 😉
If you live on your own it should be much cheaper. But a family, hose pipe use etc can give you a nasty shock.
I dont use a hosepipe. Ever. We are only in late evenings and Im not a fan of baths.
We are £166 in credit after having a meter fitted 6 months ago. Household is 2 adults + a toddler. Everyone out all day at work or nursery, but our usage equates to a single bedroom garden residence according to our bill. To be honest though we didn't water the garden much this year...
An easy rule of fum is if you have more bedrooms than people in your abode then get a water-meter, otherwise don't bother.
Water meters significantly reduce water flow....fact, eventually leading to overheating of CH systems and washing machines, the only way to prevent this is to fit a back/forward flow de-restriction by-pass around the meter rendering it safe!
I thought I'd make some decent savings but turns out I have a leak so doubled by estimated costs; hoping that will be resolved soon - see my recent thread.
In our case yes, we pay more than our three neighbours in identical houses without meters!
Timp situation here
We were originally charged by meter and our bill was significantly more than it is now. 2 adults and two kids.
If you choose to have a meter fitted you have a year to choose to return to non metered if you so wish.
We've gone for a meter. It should drop our bill from £720 ish to about £400.
ps get a shower timer too. And a low flush loo (or just drop a brick in the cistern) and some flow reducer (aerator) valves for the taps.
youll only pay for what you use, dont leave taps running and dont use a hose to wash a bike, and fitr a stop tap on the inside for an outside tap.
Works for me. Bill seriously reduced.
Get a bore hole put in. Saved us a few quid over the years!
I thought my fixed rate was steep at £350/annum.
£621 is criminal, which water company is that?
Mine's close to £600 hence me looking at a meter, water company reckon we (2 adults, 1 toddler) should be around £400 - shame that the leak has put as at double that.
there are 2 of us and our waterbill is £204 for the year. we have several water butts which are used for washing cars, watering the garden and plants, we have low flush toilets, aerators on the taps and are sensible with water use.
Our unmetered costs (based in Bristol) would have been approx £450 so well worth it for us.
A water meter will charge you for what you use. If that is more or less than the average is up to you.
Waste water is not measured so probably wont change.
I've seen families of 4 will bills equating to a couple (OK that was Melbourne and they were very conscious of usage)
cheekyboy - Member
Water meters significantly reduce water flow....fact, eventually leading to overheating of CH systems and washing machines, the only way to prevent this is to fit a back/forward flow de-restriction by-pass around the meter rendering it safe!
please provide references for such assertions
Because they are frankly a bit rubbish
i thought waste water was charged based on how much you use?
In Bristol we get charged for waste water, which is based on 90% of our delivered water being sent back into the sewerage system. That way if your water usage drops so does your waste water amount.
Wastewater charges are based on the metered consumption for metered properties
We use to be on a meter (Thames Water), less than £15pcm for a 3-bed with 2 adults and 1 child with no attempt whatsoever to save water.
Dishwasher and few baths though.
mudshark - Member
Mine's close to £600 hence me looking at a meter, water company reckon we (2 adults, 1 toddler) should be around £400 - shame that the leak has put as at double that
Where was the leak?
How recent?
Which company?
If it's not mine and you fancy some fun I believe you can challenge the liability. If it's mine I'm sorry the professional risk is too high.
Yep, blame the water company. You understand rateable value is not set by the water company don't you?
Mark, challenge this. It seems too high to me. Phone them up and query it if you haven't already.
B_n_d
How can you prove a meter is faulty?
I ask because my daughter is convinced her meter is faulty, giving a false reading 🙄
No I can't, the water company will charge to test it but it's likely that they don't have the facilities and will just send it back to the manufacturer.
I have come across a number of things over the years, one includes a recent meter fit where a common supply pipe was metered and charged to one property.
High consumption can be difficult to track down, it's all about being logical and methodical. Ask your daughter how long she spends in the shower 😉
Having just changed to direct debit for both water companies, It's just hit home how much we pay per month, £30 per month. Bit of a shock.
Makes me think if there are ways of saving bath/shower water to use for flushing the loo. Apart from buckets.... 🙂
Seem to remember seeing some sort of contraption on tv years ago, not sure if there's anything around now?
Footflaps it United Utilities.
www.unitedutilities.com/Our-charges-last-year.aspx
I have a plan/hunch. Where the stop tap/water pipe is sited is VERY tight on space. Im guessing a meter wont be possible so I can go for the fixed price of 444 above ^^
I had a meter fitted in January last year. Wouldn't fit in the house so it's in the front garden. Cost for the year was £510 in total. For a 3 bed semi, 2+2 kids. Regular, car, bike washing on driveway, watering garden etc. We have decided to go back to rateable value charging, as when the kids are older, we will use a lot more water! I'd check what the neighbours are paying as your current charging is higher than mine, and I live in posh suburbia as you know! 😀
We're still saving by using a meter, even though we have a baby in reusable nappies, hence lots of washing. I fitted a couple of water butts for watering the garden and washing the bike and car. You can even buy a little electric pump to run a hose from your water butt.
Our water rates are about £295 for the year.
2 adults & 2 kids
No garden to water
Rarely wash the car 😀
Wash bike with bucket & sponge
Won't be considering a water meter as HRH loves long showers so uses more water than would fill the bath each time she has one 😯 🙄
Ours went from an absolutely astonishing 1600 a year to around 350 after we had one put in. Family of five with three littl'uns. Totally worth it for us.
We're on a meter (just 2 adults) and first couple of bills have been £18 and £16 (each for a month). Mrs likes long baths and new house has power shower so blasts through water.
Having the other old shower replaced with an electric one so should cut water usage down a bit more.
I would like to know why mine is so high! £30 per month just for me, rarely wash car, never water garden, quick showers only.
Would say that I'm frugal with water and certainly don't waste it. Spoke to water company who reckoned it was average. 😯
Once again we are ripped off with utilities and successive Governments are too weak and pathetic to sort it out. 👿
Where was the leak?How recent?
Which company?
Company is Sutton and East Surrey.
Currently looks like the leak is close to where the mains enters the house based on the fact I can hear water noise there when the stopcock is switched off but see no evidence of a leak. So it's inside my garden and between the water meter (by the road) and stopcock, hopefully not in my house before it gets to the stopcock. It's not a dramatic leak but we're using about double what we expect - can see the meter constantly spinning even with the stopcock turned off.
Water meter was fitted in 6/7 months ago but only read a few weeks ago so bill was a surprise. The daily usage implies leak was there before the meter was put in but man from the water company says they wouldn't have put it if there was a leak - someone's supposed to be coming today so will discuss this more.
Once again we are ripped off with utilities and successive Governments are too weak and pathetic to sort it out.
Really?
The companies’ pre-tax return on capital for 2005-10 has averaged 6.7%. Our
assumption when we set price limits for the sectors in 2004 was 7.0%
Id say that was fairly good value for money. Your water bill is only 7% higher than the cost of getting clean, 24hr a day, workably pressurised water to you and your poo away.
Would a bill of £27.90 a month make you feel less ripped off?
[i]Once again we are ripped off with utilities and successive Governments are too weak and pathetic to sort it out.[/i]
Or you're using a lot of water. I can't see how water is expensive if ours was sub £15pcm on a meter, and this was over the 12 years we lived there.
Rates are something different thou, and not the water companies issue - except the cash they make from it.
Mudshark, not my company so I can help you wind them up if you are up for it in regard to the charges. You also need to apply for the "leakage allowance" If they operate such a scheme. Otherwise it's part of the complaint.
I would like to know why mine is so high! £30 per month just for me, rarely wash car, never water garden, quick showers only.Would say that I'm frugal with water and certainly don't waste it. Spoke to water company who reckoned it was average.
What is the average daily volume that you use, how many people in your house? If the meter is accessible read it everyday for a week and look at the consumption figures. Try a read overnight or when the house is empty for a period to see whether there is hidden leakage.
Come back with the numbers
Once again we are ripped off with utilities and successive Governments are too weak and pathetic to sort it out.
I agree that the cross subsidy from metered customers to non-metered (RV charged) customers is a scandal. People should pay for what they use and household tariffs should be structured so that the more you use the higher the tariff to reflect the environment cost of both abstraction and managed disposal into the environment.
4x in a house. Low volume cisterns. Low volume washing machine & dishwasher. A couple of showers a day and a shallow bath for the boys.
About 110 m3 of water (110 tons!) a year at £1.50 a ton = £165 for water and 90p a ton to take it away again = £99
so about £300 a year including standing charges.
Severn Trent.
I thought my fixed rate was steep at £350/annum.£621 is criminal, which water company is that?
You want to try living in the South West Water catchment area, that would be considered a small bill. Even with a water meter my bills are astronomical.
Makes me think if there are ways of saving bath/shower water to use for flushing the loo. Apart from buckets....Seem to remember seeing some sort of contraption on tv years ago, not sure if there's anything around now?
The search term you're probably looking for is "greywater".
You'd probably never see a return on investment for retro-fitting a greywater recycling system, though.
Water company chap came early so an update, TBH so far I think they might be the best company I've ever had to sort a problem out with.
Confirmed there is a leak outside and said they have a service where 2 chaps will come for a couple of hours and try to find and resolve the problem for no charge. If they fail then they can continue but at cost - or I can find my own people to do it. I was also told that once fixed they'll work out my new usage and then correct my bill to take this into account. I may ban washing for a short period...!
Makes me think if there are ways of saving bath/shower water to use for flushing the loo. Apart from buckets....Seem to remember seeing some sort of contraption on tv years ago, not sure if there's anything around now?
The search term you're probably looking for is "greywater".
You'd probably never see a return on investment for retro-fitting a greywater recycling system, though.
A cheap (free?) version of this is a bucket collecting in the sink / shower whilst you are waiting for the water to heat up. Use this to refill the toilet cisterns... #frugal!
I frequently do lifecycle costings for developments. Generally rainwater recycling for toilet flushing etc has a payback period circa 20 years. Troublke is you need large enough storage tanks to make it useable in all but the dryest periods (current conditions excepted), and dual supplies - one for recycled water and one for mains water in case recycled isn't availoable. Hence capital costs are huge compared to savings.
Regarding meters, we had one fitted last summer (compulsory). Feared the worst as 4 of us including 2 teenage daughters, bike washing etc. Fact is our bill has halved! 😀
[i]Once again we are ripped off with utilities and successive Governments are too weak and pathetic to sort it out[/i]
Dearie me. Utility companies in the UK are incredibly heavily regulated. OFWAT in particular places all the water companies under immense pressure (sic) to provide a even playing field. Each water company will have a HUGE team of people who's job is nothing more than ensuring the regulatory controls are met and the pricing falls in line.
If a water company gets a single complaint, it will change how much profit they can make next year. Each company is told precisely how much they can spend on infrastructure investment, how much can be allocated to improvements, how much they must spend on appeasing landholders and even how much they can spend on securing their assets. Each company must also submit their entire set of books annually to OFWAT, will be compared against each of the other water companies and placed into a graded structure based on service level and again will have that used against them to determine how much profit they are permitted to make. No water company can run a profit making non-core business and can only invest in specific sectors.
Does that sound weak to you?
mudshark, this is the relevant section of their charges scheme
2.2.8
Leakage from Metered Supplies
The customer is liable for the cost of all the water registered on the meter. No allowance will be made in respect of water wasted by leakage from customers' internal or external pipe-work (irrespective of whether such pipework is above or below ground, or buried or visible), customers’ plumbing fittings, and customers’ appliances. The only exception to this is in the case of the first defect at domestic premises as specified in our Code of Practice on leakage from domestic premises. A copy of the Code of Practice is available, free of charge, upon request.
is your friend
If they are planning to charge you for water that has leaked away then you can construct an argument that this is in breach of their Licence Condition E to show no due preference or discrimination to a class of customers
Meter inspection booked (TWO WEEKS away). Why so long?! Anyway- I know the space is far too tight for one to be fitted as they'd have to part dismantle the fitted kitchen as the space is too tight as it is. So I imagine it'd end up being a reduced-tariff offer they'll give me.
[i]Meter inspection booked (TWO WEEKS away). Why so long?! Anyway- I know the space is far too tight for one to be fitted as they'd have to part dismantle the fitted kitchen as the space is too tight as it is. So I imagine it'd end up being a reduced-tariff offer they'll give me. [/i]
Surely it would be installed outside?
Yes, wherever the stop cock is on the boundary of your property.That's where ours is anyway.
Wow! I pay over £100 pcm direct debit...
South West Water, or Dick Turpin as I like to think of them...
Even by their own web site wizard, we should save about £500/year...
Will be changing to a meter...
Got my bill yesterday and I am £52 in credit. Moved house from 2 bed terrace to 3 bed detached last year and bill trebled to about £450 so decided to have a meter installed. (I live alone). In future they are going to charge me £12+ a month so probably about £16 once I have my credit back. Happy bunny with a meter here.
big_n_daft - I'm happy with the way they're dealing with this so far, if they find and fix my leak with no charge to me I'll be very happy!
Wow! I pay over £100 pcm direct debit...
So £1200 a year - do you live in an ex manor house?!
I thought my fixed rate was steep at £350/annum.
£621 is criminal, which water company is that?You want to try living in the South West Water catchment area, that would be considered a small bill. Even with a water meter my bills are astronomical.
Yep South West Water bless em our water rates were about £970 a year ( 4 bed house) and that hurt 3 people showering every day eco bogs / washing machine / dishwasher / immaculate bikes / dirty cars
With a meter we are now paying about £110 a quarter
It is a monopoly I can get electricity/gas from tescos etc but water we have no choice
It is a monopoly I can get electricity/gas from tescos etc but water we have no choice
if you had choice your bill would be higher, the costs to have a market would be significant and you would be paying for them
I would be more upset at those who choose not to pay, they increase your bill
South West Water bless em
I'm upset that eveyone else in the country is subsiding your bill to the tune of £50/ household/annum just because you used to flush straight into the sea
A couple of water company people came to try and locate my leak using their free 2 hours but couldn't so have now decided to put in a new pipe from to the house. The pamphlet I was given says they charge £326+VAT for 1st 10 metres then £27.35+VAT per metre after that. That's not too bad though the guys who came suggested that the man who decides might find reasons to charge me more.
Water meters significantly reduce water flow....fact, eventually leading to overheating of CH systems and washing machines, the only way to prevent this is to fit a back/forward flow de-restriction by-pass around the meter rendering it safe!
interesting take on this. Nonsense and also illegal to bypass the meter.
Meter inspection booked (TWO WEEKS away). Why so long?! Anyway- I know the space is far too tight for one to be fitted as they'd have to part dismantle the fitted kitchen as the space is too tight as it is. So I imagine it'd end up being a reduced-tariff offer they'll give me.
Meter inspections are probably quite low on the priority list of jobs to do, behind burst mains, water quality complaints and problems etc.
As already mentioned, the meter is more likely to go outside at the boundary of your property. Usually replaces the existing external stop tap.
Meter inspections are probably quite low on the priority list of jobs to do, behind burst mains, water quality complaints and problems etc.
As already mentioned, the meter is more likely to go outside at the boundary of your property. Usually replaces the existing external stop tap.
different team/ contractor doing the inspections to those looking for leaks etc. At this time of year there is high demand due to the billing activity for people without meters.
mudshark - MemberA couple of water company people came to try and locate my leak using their free 2 hours but couldn't so have now decided to put in a new pipe from to the house. The pamphlet I was given says they charge £326+VAT for 1st 10 metres then £27.35+VAT per metre after that. That's not too bad though the guys who came suggested that the man who decides might find reasons to charge me more.
I would ask for a copy of their procedures and the records for the meter installation. I would strongly suggest that it's suspicious that a pipe that hasn't burst for "x" years bursts after they have interupted your supply to fit the meter.
Put everything in writing, they have to provide a substantive response to each question
Thanks big_n_daft but I imagine the pipe had been quietly leaking for quite a while - one leak at least seems to be well away from the meter.
BTW, the one leak appears to be on a section fitted to go into the new kitchen when it was extended. The guys that came said as all the pipes are copper they must have all been there before the extension was built but that seems unlikely to me as I can't see why the extra section would have been there before the extension was built. So maybe the builders used copper pipes as that was there already? Anyway, this is a little complicated as it means there is a T junction under ground from which one pipe goes into the utility room, where there is a stop cock, and the original one that goes into the old kitchen and feeds the water tank in the loft. There is a stop cock to this on the outside of the house.
So- the Assesor came round today and agreed that fitting a water meter was impractical. He then proposed to dig a trench on the drive and fit a water meter there. I've objected and asked to move to Assesed charges (fixed price) as digging a trench - even a small bloody one in your drive isn't on.
Am I being fair? Or are they within their remit? Heres the text from their site:
Assessed charges - household where metering is impracticableFor a household property where a consumer has applied to have a meter fitted free of charge but where metering is impracticable, an assessed charge is available, comprising of a fixed annual sum varying according to property type except where only one person lives at the property
Get them to dig a trench, then you can have fun recreating the battle of the Somme on your own property at the weekend. I can come round and throw hand grenades at you if you want to make it really authentic
Ok long and short of it. Provider says they offered water meter- sorry if I refuse etc. So I said (all politely) I'll contact Ofwat- one short phonecall and two days later I received a phonecall from my provider saying they will move me onto fixed/assessed-charge (which is what I really wanted as the ideal outcome). Plus....today I received a cheque for £25 to say sorry.
Wow.
Oh just had an update on my problems. Water company decided to charge me £1200 to put in a new pipe between meter and house - a lot more than I expected based on their booklet. My insurance company said I'm covered though so will hopefully all work out OK.
Mudshark- have you spoken to Ofwat? (apologies if have/I'm behind)
No I haven't and as insurance is covering will leave it now. If I was having to pay I'd ask for a breakdown of costs and go from there but the insurance company have spoken to them so they must think all OK.
My angle is what if its not the external pipe? What if subsequently the leak is discovered behind plaster inside the house? Will they refund on the pipe. Have they checked the installed meter/seals alround it etc? or replaced with a new meter just incase first?
Well I suppose it could be the meter but it's certainly outside the stop cock in the house as the meter was still turning when the stop cock was turned off. If it does turn out to be the meter then we'll have an interesting conversation I'm sure.
What sort of pipe is going in? I imagine its one of those plastic things rather than cast iron. For £1,200 I'd want cast iron! If the leaks does transpire to be a faulty meter or at their end/should have been uncovered then Ofwat- with the question on a backdated claim on the excess water that'd you been charged. 😐
[i]Wow. [/i]
They sound like an awesome water company.
Mind you, it is is SIM week next week.
I have been told I won't be charged for the excess water - they'll estimate what I would have used using a reading once all sorted.
🙂