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It seems to be if your on a losing side the democratic process is unfair in the modern era, I'm sure this used to be why things got put to a vote so the majority can decide, you know a bit like the justice system trial by your peers, wether they be trackie wearing simpletons or these supposedly elite university educated grads ,but the elephant in the room seems to be ,if we lose we aren't going to take it sturgeon seems to think she has been hard done by and gone all , "we shall not be ruled" I'm surprised she hasn't thought about suing those that voted leave
pick a thread, any thread....
This thread is useless without pics.
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It would be the same either way it went as it was always going to be close. Really the referendum only clearly shows a massive division of the country.
The thing that makes me angry is that the evidence was massively on the remain side but people went with opinion. There was not a fine balance of leave vs stay on the evidence front it was massively to stay but yet the results was very close. Makes you realise how stupid the majority are.
Think you're confusing unfair with unjust. The vote was fair, the result (as the brick identified given the leave campaigns lies) was unjust.
Makes you realise how stupid the majority are.
Exactly.
If an election was decided but such a small margin one party wouldn't have absolute power, why such a small majority can make such an important decision, stay or go seems bonkers to me.
Princejohn + 1
Spot on. The closeness of the result should render it null and void, with it acting as an advisory, rather than a mandate.
The brick and sparks + 1 as well
A Few Winston Churchillisms that seem very apt
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I feel for the Scots, they voted to stay in a european uk, not an independent one.
This is what the SNP must have been desperate for. I'll bet they were doing somersaults when the result came in.
I also voted to stay in a European UK. Does that mean I can be Scottish?
Not sure how the world can be a better place when we're building boarders rather than removing them.
Wrong forum, bad spelling, poor punctuation and syntax. Who's the idiot?
What I'd like to know is why the lefty liberal elite hate our country so much , it's weird and from reading this forum for some reason a lot of mountain bikers fall into this category . The BBC is rotten to the core and seems to be brainwashing a lot of the public . All the doom and gloom hasn't happened , the pound has rallied already and Europe is starting to take a softer approach . They are so desperate they are saying lower the voting age to 16 , to people who have never had to pay rent / a mortgage , bills , car insurance , prescriptions , university fees , people who don't know about real life , people who want to stay in Europe so that they can work in a bar in Spain for six months .... well f###ing yippee .the lefties say we won't be able to trade anymore , when we all know you can buy from china/Russia / America on bloody ebay for a start , I can send money to my long lost relatives in Nigeria who email me regularly with consomethinge ease . We live in a global entity . I'm in my mid forties and hopefully I've still got another 30 years plus to live and I've voted for my future as well , a future where I don't want a bunch of unelected Eurocrats to sit in a panelled room deciding what emissions my car must have , what colour yellow my bananas should be , what wattage vacuum cleaner I must use , well tough titties the public have spoken and enough is enough . One last thing , don't get me started about the fact that the whole debacle of a European Parliament moves for one month of the a year to Strasbourg at billions of cost to appease the French .
. All the doom and gloom hasn't happened ,
We haven't even started leaving yet.
Putting hand up as not a lefty liberal elite to say WTF? BBC rotten? Maybe your perspective is from an extreme?
The campaign to leave and remain spanned all sides of politics with the right and left being indistinguishable at times. Unless by lefty you mean tolerant and able to see the benefits of EU cooperation and how over history more has been achieved by working together than by going it alone. ON top of that how leaving does virtually no good for the UK but costs us a lot in real terms.
Your post reads much like a UKIP leaflet, high on emotion, blame and anger but with very little actual real substance.
This is what the SNP must have been desperate for. I'll bet they were doing somersaults when the result came in.
I doubt it. I'm sure they could get an exit vote now, but then what? They'd be instantly bankrupt.
They can't call a referendum until oil prices balance the books.
I don't want a bunch of unelected Eurocrats to sit in a panelled room deciding what emissions my car must have , what colour yellow my bananas should be , what wattage vacuum cleaner I must use
More mis-informed nonsense
Emissions? Yes, god forbid we should worry about the environment and it's impact on our health
Bananas? There's no law on the colour. There are regulations on the quality of the fruit. God forbid we should have good quality food that hasn't been grown in poor conditions to maximise profit at the expense of quality
Hoover wattage? Again, god forbid we should have people considering our overuse of electricity and looking to improve our environment
Halfwit.
Do you think Westminster is some Indian tribe where they all sit around the campfire, get stoned and decide our laws in a nice jolly way.
Wake the **** up
I'll put it like this , I bumped into an acquaintance yesterday in the bank . I said can you give me £350 ? He willingly obliged , I gave him £30 back but said whatever he spends it on he must mention my name and give me credit for it . He was over the moon , we are meeting again today to do the same , and tomorrow , and the day after , and the day after that .......
BoardinBob - Member
I don't want a bunch of unelected Eurocrats to sit in a panelled room deciding what emissions my car must have , what colour yellow my bananas should be , what wattage vacuum cleaner I must use
More mis-informed nonsense
Emissions? Yes, god forbid we should worry about the environment and it's impact on our health
Bananas? There's no law on the colour. There are regulations on the quality of the fruit. God forbid we should have good quality food that hasn't been grown in poor conditions to maximise profit at the expense of quality
Hoover wattage? Again, god forbid we should have people considering our overuse of electricity and looking to improve our environment
Halfwit.
Do you think Westminster is some Indian tribe where they all sit around the campfire, get stoned and decide our laws in a nice jolly way.
Wake the **** up
Halfwit ?
You don't know anything about me , but one thing I'll tell you , I won't be bullied by lefty liberals who don't care about their country
...
Referendums aren't democracy. Referendums are what you get when democracy has failed.
You don't know anything about me , but one thing I'll tell you , I won't be bullied by lefty liberals who don't care about their country
And I don't want to live in a country with thick racists. Don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way out.
You don't know anything about me , but one thing I'll tell you , I won't be bullied by lefty liberals who don't care about their country
Spot on, 100% behind you pushing you out the exit....
It is possible to care about your country and the world, possible to lift yourself above the tiny wall of your tiny castle and see there is a world out there.
#NotALeftyLiberal just not a ****
You don't know anything about me , but one thing I'll tell you , I won't be bullied by lefty liberals who don't care about their country
And I don't want to live in a country with thick racists. Don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way out.
You haven't even got an argument , you play the racist card without even knowing my skin colour
Quite appalling
You lot are crap at sleggin'.
richinbish - Member
I'll put it like this , I bumped into an acquaintance yesterday in the bank . I said can you give me £350 ? He willingly obliged , I gave him £30 back but said whatever he spends it on he must mention my name and give me credit for it . He was over the moon , we are meeting again today to do the same , and tomorrow , and the day after , and the day after that
What does that facile anecdote refer to?
Bullying, lies and elitism is not the preserve of the liberal left. Take a look at last nights Newsnight and watch the Dan Hannan lie about immigration and Suzanne Evans lie about the NHS funding. Then fast forward to the last segment and watch the double whammy of David Starkey demonstrating sneering elitism and bullying all in one go.
BoardinBob +1 But in all honesty I can't see why you bothered, Rich's post shouted at volume that he wasn't going to listen. Like Mike said it read like a Ukip pamphlet.
@Rich - Your guy in the bank story... hahahahahahahaha
Yep and I'm assuming by the recent join date it's just another regular/former contributor who logged in with the wrong account again.
I think you are wasting your metaphorical breath there Bob. Entrenched stupidity at its breathtaking best.
richinbish - Member
What I'd like to know is why the lefty liberal elite hate our country so much , it's weird and from reading this forum for some reason a lot of mountain bikers fall into this category . The BBC is rotten to the core and seems to be brainwashing a lot of the public . All the doom and gloom hasn't happened , the pound has rallied already and Europe is starting to take a softer approach . They are so desperate they are saying lower the voting age to 16 , to people who have never had to pay rent / a mortgage , bills , car insurance , prescriptions , university fees , people who don't know about real life , people who want to stay in Europe so that they can work in a bar in Spain for six months .... well f###ing yippee .the lefties say we won't be able to trade anymore , when we all know you can buy from china/Russia / America on bloody ebay for a start , I can send money to my long lost relatives in Nigeria who email me regularly with consomethinge ease . We live in a global entity . I'm in my mid forties and hopefully I've still got another 30 years plus to live and I've voted for my future as well , a future where I don't want a bunch of unelected Eurocrats to sit in a panelled room deciding what emissions my car must have , what colour yellow my bananas should be , what wattage vacuum cleaner I must use , well tough titties the public have spoken and enough is enough . One last thing , don't get me started about the fact that the whole debacle of a European Parliament moves for one month of the a year to Strasbourg at billions of cost to appease the French .
Cough
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Hate my country?? Just the ignorant half. The Sun/Daily Mail/Express reading masses who can't think for themselves, who fell for the 'take our country back' bullshit, who think that this will change anything for the better for the majority.
Who are they going to turn on next when they realise their failings aren't down to immigrants and the EU?
Every leave voting 'man in the street' I've seen interviewed so far has came across as a ****ing moron.
Every leave voter I've met in person has been old, ignorant, stupid, bigoted or a combination of all of those.
This morning I'm genuinely sad and fearful for my mine and my family's future. If we can't negotiate free trade with the EU then the global company I work for will be gone within 5 years I reckon, taking with it 6500 direct and 30'000 indirect quality jobs, ironically destroying a region that overwhelmingly voted out.
Not to mention parts of the country that benefited greatly from EU funding, actually voting to leave e.g.. Cornwall, Wales etc.
Your post reads much like a UKIP leaflet, high on emotion, blame and anger but with very little actual real substance.
Or punctuation or paragraphs 😀
the lefties say we won't be able to trade anymore , when we all know you can buy from china/Russia / America on bloody ebay for a start
What the ....?? Do you not notice the duty you pay when you import stuff?
And imported dodgy stuff that's not made to decent (or any) safety standards.
And imported dodgy stuff that's not made to decent (or any) safety standards.
I think that is the new british standard aspiration, we shall compete with the rest of the world in our sweat shops, in our garages and in out sheds. Pension crisis could be solved by reducing life expectancy. NHS costs by having more DOA from bigger more spectacular accidents
This thread is precisely why I am totally determined not to bow to the 'you lost, just shut up and take it on the chin' brigade.
52-48 is nothing more than a call for compromise. Until that happens, we should do everything we can to keep the debate alive, including shouting down the bigots, the shortsighted, and the downright racist.
He's using buying from abroad on eBay as his argument
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It's a pretty disappointing outcome..
Forgetting that in human terms it seems like an evolutionary step backwards, it doesn't appear that even the Brexit campaign expected so many people to thoughtlessly vote with their hearts instead of their minds..
I trust that the greed of the Eton Mafia will be powerful enough to sort out the practical implications so that our little Island nation doesn't suffer too much financially.. . For a country so disenchanted with our leaders, we have voted to place a lot of trust in their ability to secure a decent future for our children..
We know that under the surface we are all parochial under achievers looking to place the blame for our discontent on something bigger than our own failure to reach our full potential.. Giving this decision to the people instead of sorting it out in parliament was a massive gamble, usually we can rely on voter apathy to keep the country running smoothly but the gamble backfired, and now we've got to let the powers that be sort out the mess..
Hopefully it will be enough of a shock to ensure that we engage with politics more pro-actively and responsibly in the future, and it will have taught some people (not pointing any fingers Nigel Farage) that if they haven't got anything kind, true or necessary to say, then it's probably best not to say anything at all
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36629324 ]Petition to get a second referendum[/url]
The thing is: I don't want a second, repeat referendum, as all it would serve is to emphasise the divisions. I don't think the original referendum result should be treated as a mandate to leave the EU, considering the closeness of the result.
If we are to have a second referendum, it should be on a renegotiated deal to stay within the EU.
The Remain voters abusing the Leave voters don't seem to appreciate just how poorly they are representing themselves. Truly embarrassing yourselves.
* This applies not to Remain voters or supporters in general, just those hurling gratuitous insults around *
Yunki +1
You haven't even got an argument , you play the racist card without even knowing my skin colour
What has anyone's skin colour got to do with being racist??
If we are to have a second referendum, it should be on a renegotiated deal to stay within the EU.
That is not on the table from the EU. We can ask for what we want but it's not going to happen.
psycorp - Member
Makes you realise how stupid the majority are.
Exactly.
And how arrogant the minority are.
35% In
37% Out
28% No Vote
Who is the majority and minority?
That is not on the table from the EU. We can ask for what we want but it's not going to happen.
I didn't say it would happen, I said it's the only reason we should have a second referendum. Either way, the first one is not enough of a mandate to leave the EU.
Truly embarrassing yourselves.
I'm not embarrassed in the slightest
The Scots as a whole voted to stay in the UK.
The UK as a whole subsequently voted to exit the EU.
If the Scots didn't like the rules or want to be in the UK club, they had the chance to say so in 2014.
Title of this discussion sums it up. We appear have adults stating the game needs to be started again because they lost.
We appear have adults stating the game needs to be started again because they lost.
We appear to have adults who think this is a game with fixed rules and no swapsies.
We don't appear to have adults.
Wahhh its so unfair that other dont share my minority views.
Looking forward to the usual gobby rentamob commies getting a truncheoning in London later.
The Scots as a whole voted to stay in the UK.
The UK as a whole subsequently voted to exit the EU.If the Scots didn't like the rules or want to be in the UK club, they had the chance to say so in 2014.
Title of this discussion sums it up. We appear have adults stating the game needs to be started again because they lost.
The Scottish Ref. was based on a premise where the UK was in the EU. The goalposts have been moved.
I don't want Scotland to be independent, but I think they are within their rights to demand one due to the severe change of the circumstances.
On the losing thing: No, it's because the referendum result was not clear enough to make one viewpoint dominant over the other, especially as the leave campaign was primarily based on lies and baseless nationalistic rhetoric. Even many leave voters have publicly said they regret their decision.
Remainers now trying to claim that those that didn't vote should be added to the remain count ! At least take your beating like a man.
At least take your beating like a man.
Yeah, awesome, yeah well done you knocked the man down, now kick him in the balls. Wake up to what you just voted for.
Yes lets have a second referendum, damn, ok best of 3 then, double damn, ok this is it then best of 5.
Remainers now trying to claim that those that didn't vote should be added to the remain count ! At least take your beating like a man.
Perhaps you should read what your chosen leader, Farage, said in the link above.
The result was entirely fair. We will now get what we deserve as a result. That is also fair.
No sense of unfairness here.
I have a feeling the 'unfair' word will be trotted out by Leavers when they don't get the sunny, cricket on the village green, spitfires overhead, no foreigners utopia they thought they were voting for.
Oh, and it is also entirely fair that those who pushed the Leave agenda and those who voted for them should be at the vanguard of the Britain Can Make It Project. I mean, there is no way we'd vote to throw everything up in the air without the first idea of how to proceed afterwards, is there?
BoardinBob - MemberI'm not embarrassed in the slightest
I don't want to live in a country with thick racists. Don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way out.
Whilst you didn't call anyone or all the Leave voters thick racists you are implying it. The fact you don't see that as cause for embarrassment is err embarrassing. I don't often challenge anything said on here as STW is usually a real mine of constructive discussion with some genuine humour and wit but some of the comments in the last 24 hrs display an absence of understanding what democracy is or how to have an adult respectful conversation. I'm off to enjoy the weekend.
nice victory people
[quote=thebees ]Remainers now trying to claim that those that didn't vote should be added to the remain count ! At least take your beating like a man.
Please point out where anybody is claiming that.
What is being suggested is that only a minority of the electorate voted to Leave, which is a factual statement - it's quite normal to set a threshold of the electorate to change from the status quo, as in the 1979 Scottish devolution referendum, and we didn't meet the 40% threshold specified for that. Which I'd suggest gives plenty of latitude to suggest that the will of the collective isn't actually to leave the EU.
The ones I might like to add to the remain count are those who voted Leave but are disappointed that Remain didn't win 🙄
mikewsmith - Member
35% In
37% Out
28% No Vote
Who is the majority and minority?
Is this a hypothetical question or something? It just doesn't really work as a direct question, given that "no vote, no voice" is a pretty well established concept. This leaves 2 numbers, and 37 is bigger than 35.
I'm not entirely happy about the UK leaving the EU but some of the incredibly weak arguements being put about by quite obviously sore losers are embarrassingly pathetic.
Most referendums set a minimum turnout or a clear majority of voters, the threshold for change should always be greater.
What is mostly disappointing is the fact that this was carried over the line by people voting on a completely different question than the one on the paper
The vote did not return a majority of the population of the UK.
aracer - see above.
sturgeon is becoming as irritating has a Women with Thrush
I'm not entirely happy about the UK leaving the EU but some of the incredibly weak arguements being put about by quite obviously sore losers are embarrassingly pathetic.
Yeah, it must be very easy to label anyone unhappy with the leave as a "sore loser": It means you don't have to think too hard about the problems we now face.
[quote=thebees ]aracer - see above.
See above what? I'm not seeing anything above contradicting my arguments.
Every 4 years you have a vote to try and change what you believe in. Now just a fraction over half the population have made a choice to change MY life forever, with no chance to ever change that in my life time again (39 yr old). That's why I struggle to accept it. My life way fine last week and we had a good level of influence in Europe. Yesterday I lost around 22% of my life savings to speculators and currency traders, yes it could come back and hope markets recover but that's my reasons. UK has now lost its triple A credit rating.. and people chose to go this route!!
My best mate said he voted "out" because he wants a recession so he can buy up properties and rent them out. This is the shallow society we live in now where people are obsessed with making money.... very sad!
Whineeey
Whineeeeeey
whineeeeeeeeeey
[url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_European_Communities_membership_referendum,_1975 ]LOSERS[/url]
Will you never learn! You lost and by a f___ing MASSIVE amount.
It's always the looney lefty's as well, like Tony Benn.
And the righty's, like Enoch Powell.
The only sensible [url=
Its not even a fraction over half the population. It's a fraction overt half the people who voted and 37% of the voting population.
Not too late to edit: well played Baron 😳
Which bit the ref to the '75 landslide or Stealers Wheel? 🙂
If there was a second referendum it would only serve to further the case for Brexit as we would see a greater majority who want out - There are an increasing number of European 'member states' who's electorate want out - This sentiment I envisage will only gather momentum ..
Again. Third not second.
If there was a second referendum it would only serve to further the case for Brexit as we would see a greater majority who want out -
geven the people coming out saying they only voted out to upset CMD etc. and now they realise there won't be a new hospital every week along with the 28% who didn't vote I wouldn't put cash on that.
Mandy at Manchester Airport would change sides, apparently.
It seems that the UK's credit rating has just been down-graded. The wheels are beginning to come off the train. Public abuse of non-white people in England by racist thugs has begun. My worry is that it will soon get bad enough for the formerly reasonable and polite 48.1% to move from anxiety to hate and start referring to the Leave voters as "Those ****ing arseholes".