[Closed] My Ford Focus engine is dead, options?

Fit a recon engine.

Any ideas on cost etc for that? What about effect on value of car?

What engine?

Recon engine or one out of a write off. Depending on what's available.
It'll make your car worth more than scrap to have running engine in.

Sorry, no idea on cost apart from cheaper then new.
It really depends on the condition of the rest of the car. Is it worth spending money on it? Or do you cut your losses and start again?

Get a second opinion from a different garage?

Try engineengineering.co.uk for a quote.

+1. I imagine they'd happily take it off your hands or suddenly say 'but we've stropped it down started work mate'. Get it elsewhere.

I can't imagine a dead Focus being worth anything like £2.5k. I'm sure a brand new engine from Ford would cost £6.5k though. If it was my car I'd look for one from a breakers then I'd learn to keep an eye on my temperature gauge.

That's a ridiculous quote for a Ford engine replacement.

What engine is it OP ?

Is it still running or has it cooked itself ?

It's a 1.6l turbo engine. The rest of the car is in good nick, we've had it since months old, and had no plans to move it on. Thanks for the temp gauge advice, appreciated...

It was still running fine when I drove it to the garage!!

Recon engine and get a competent independent to fit it.

Engine blew on a Renault Clio we owned and managed to source a replacement for 800£ with only 19k on the clock. Cost about 500 for an independent to fit.

Depends on your engine I guess. Diesel or petrol? Diesel might cost more.

Short block. Any garage worth its salt should do this. We used to fit them all the time at Ford 🙂

Diesel ?

If it was still running fine when you took it to the garage I would be taking it away again to somewhere else for diagnosis

Oink1 can you explain - I don't know what that means!

Petrol engine. It's a top of the range focus, lots of toys for its age

+1 for getting a second opinion, especially consider that it was running fine when you drove it to the garage...

If it really is terminal then I'd also second the recon engine route - I imagine that there are plenty of written off crashed focuses around - if that's the 1.6 Diesel there'll be loads, maybe harder if it's the 1.6 ecoboost petrol though.

BTW - a "short block" is the assembled cyl block, crank and pistons (a "long block" is the same but with the cyl head assy included)

It's gonna be a ecoboost. I didn't know that engine went into a Focus so it may not be as straight forward as the old Zetec engines,

I'm guessing the car is at the garage now ?

Yes it is an ecoboost petrol, sorry if I didn't explain! Not in the best frame of mind! And yes it's at the garage, I suspect in bits as they left me to think on things overnight, before the y try and get 6.5k out of me to fit a new engine! Thinks that's not happening under any circumstances! Thanks all for thoughts and advice, this place is great!

If it's a ecoboost speak to Ford customer services, there may be good will available as that hose is known as a design weakness.the one thing not in your favour is they do release recall bulletins. Unless you look for them you won't know about them though.

If they have taken it to pieces without your permission they are in the wrong.

No problem, think my head would be mashed if I'd just had that news.

It's a difficult one as, the way I read it, they have had the car since Saturday so, without wanting to worry you just being realistic, yes it could be in bits now.

The problem is if it is in bits getting it somewhere else for another opinion. I would be tempted to get down to the garage in person first thing tommorow if you can and see what's going on.

I can second the advice above about short engines etc

OP, which part of the country are you in ?

Not exactly without permission as i knew they were looking for a cooling system leak. They phoned me yesterday and said tut was up to £570 as they couldn't find the leak without doing the head gasket and that's when alarm bells started to ring

If you can get the garage to explain the specific reason why the engine is ****ed that may help - feel free to post on here of course - on the offchance that they're not playing fair then they may struggle to explain but if it's genuine then maybe the hive mind can offer some help.

I'm always amazed at the breadth and depth of knowledge available here.

EDIT - I see you've posted since I started writing, although the advice still stands.

It shouldn't take a new engine to resolve a coolant leak. Maybe a head gasket, combined with a head skim at worst. Of course the consequential damage of a leak can easily write an engine off, but in that case you generally notice (i.e. it's siezed!)

Typical 'in bits' but then that's only parts of the engine. It'll still have its wheels etc on. Chances are they'll claim they had to remove the gearbox tomorrow to look at/access for a better look?.. Get it trailered away. It'll cost c£100.

I'm in Redhill surrey

See some of the reports here - split hoses, hot engines being turned off etc causing problems similar to what you face.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/ford/focus-2011/?section=good

Is the garage a Ford dealer or an independent?

It is a ford dealer yes. Why do I feel bad saying that!?

Well if anything, I'd be happier it is a dealer as, according to the links Matt OAB put up and what Hora had said, it's a common problem.

I'd be seeing what they say and getting onto Ford customer relations about it. If it's missed a recall or they know it's a common fault, you may be able to come to some agreement.

As far as I know, most dealers are franchised so they won't want Ford after them, I may be wrong though.

I'd still be down there first thing though....

A Ford dealer didn't do a basic first check of pressure testing the coolant circuit? That would instantly rule in or out a head gasket blow. My second check would be compressed air via the spark plugs

But I ain't a main stealer

I will be there first thing to find out what I can. Thanks for the stuff about common faults etc, too it's really helpful. They told me first that they'd do pressure testing, it was after that that they said they needed the extra investigation. I'm going to bed with a headache now, to pick it up with ford im the morning. Thanks all, I feel much more knowledgeable than I did earlier, you guys are awesome!

Be quite firm (but not rude). Some reading and a FB group link: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=1446484&i=300

To be fair, a cooking episode can wreck both the head and the short motor, while the head can be skimmed and crack tested, it's no guarantee that there is no damage evident that could come to bite your ass at any time in the future... If it's got hot enough to evidence picking up on the bores or crank, I'd recommend a remanufactured full engine less turbo /anciliaries barring the water pump and timing chain from a specialist engineer

Modern aluminium head engines don't take kindly to overheating, a head skim to fix it is back in the days of BL A series engines.

Temperature gauge - my Mrs genuinely didn't know which one it was and when I pointed it out to her she had no recollection of ever having seen it before.....she's been driving for twenty years and had that particular car for two of them!!

My Fiesta doesn't have a temperature gauge so I'm guessing the OP's Focus is the same.

They just tend to throw up faults on the display panel above the radio so it's easy to not know its getting too hot.

Don't know at what temperature the display will throw a warning up ? Hope it's not like a oil warning light when it tends to come on when the damage is done.

I've got a Focus Titanium X of the same age as the Op which has a temp gauge. I have a habit of scanning my gauges as i'm driving.

Can someone enlighten me as to this?

I can second the advice above about short engines etc

"Short" means without cylinder heads, usually sold to racing car builders as they'll work on the head or fit aftermarket ones anyway. But for an overheated engine the head is likely warped anyway, it's the first thing to go usually, the rest of the engine is usually fine unless you got it hot enough to seize it (unlikely, it would be running like a skeleton having a **** in a biscuit tin).

If the original post meant 'small' block, then that different, that's the smaller (relatively, Ford still made a 5.8l version) of the Ford v8 family (big block was the truck version). Then that won't fit as it was never AFAIK made in a transverse configuration. I presumed it was a joke anyway?

Other than that I'd second getting onto Ford about it as it's relatively new, and if no joy there have a look round the online recyclers as someone will be scrapping a car with that engine.

In fact there is one on eBay right now

Ebay item : 112141630841

In fact there are loads of them, I guess because kids love wrapping Fiesta ST's arround lampposts.

The trouble with main dealers is that they won't take shortcuts.

You need a new engine? Then it'll be a Ford box motor. It's not warranty so it's likely Ford will, at best, make a contribution. This will still leave you with a very large bill; several £1000's.

Tell the dealer to put it back to the condidtion it was in when you brought it in.

If it runs, WBAC it.

If it doesn't; hire an engine hoist and buy a socket set.

The trouble with main dealers is that they won't take shortcuts.

Request that they put it back together and take it to an independent with the Ford dealer's report and take it from there

Temperature gauge - my Mrs genuinely didn't know which one it was and when I pointed it out to her she had no recollection of ever having seen it before.....she's been driving for twenty years and had that particular car for two of them!!

My wife's the same with the fuel guage...... 😀

then I'd learn to keep an eye on my temperature gauge.

They're going out of fashion. My merc doesn't have one.

That said if you're losing/ lost coolant the temp needle drops - because the sensor isn't in the coolant its monitoring anymore - rather than show you're overheating. On diesels where the engine takes quite some time to come up to temp (my one with a temp gauge the needle doesn't come off zero for the first 10 - 15 miles) you can be a long way into a drive before it can become apparent the gauge isn't reacting.

The car does have a temp gauge, I know what it is and where it is - it didn't respond to the coolant loss until the engine went into limp mode the first time. The second time, after the new hose, it was the temp gauge that alerted me - it was moving constantly between normal mid range and spiking up then coming straight down again, I guess because there was no fluid to measure.

I went and spoke to the garage this morning, apparently cylinder 2 is warped beyond the range for skimming it. The engine is in bits and I would incur more cost (beyond the £570 labour to dismantle and problem solve) to have them rebuild it. They said that if I could source a recon engine they'd fit it too which surprised me, but not going to let them do that. It does seem that these rogue coolant pipes are a known issue, but I don't see that I'll get anywhere pursuing that with Ford on a 5 year old car. Which leaves me I think with getting it to an independent for a second opinion and potentially them doing a recon, then selling it on. It's a pain in the arse!

Main dealer prices are normally outrageous. The local mini dealer quoted some silly high prices for work on my wife's mini - took it to an independent mini specialist who sorted it for a lot cheaper. One of the main dealer problems identified wasn't even there when the specialist looked for it.

I'd looK for a low mileage engine out of a written off car to go in the focus. Maybe find out how much the main dealer would charge for fitting and compare that to a couple of good local independants. Once done there should be no need to get rid of the car quickly - as long as the new engine is decent.

Once done there should be no need to get rid of the car quickly - as long as the new engine is decent.

Also, "Loads of work done, engine just replaced" doesn't look good on an advert.

Are UK focus and Fiestas not getting huge issues with the powershift gearboxes?

Only the petrol ones due to a failing oil seal. Diesels are okay.

Wow another blown Focus. I bought a 1.0l Ecoboost a few months back and the headgasket went. No independent garage would touch it and Ford told me it would be 2K for the head gasket alone and the price was likely to increase when they opened it up and started to look around.

Luckily for me Ford took it in PX and I'm now in a Diesel C Max.

[quote=singletrackandi ]Wow another blown Focus. I bought a 1.0l Ecoboost a few months back and the headgasket went. No independent garage would touch it and Ford told me it would be 2K for the head gasket alone and the price was likely to increase when they opened it up and started to look around.
Luckily for me Ford took it in PX and I'm now in a Diesel C Max.

That engine is completely different to the OPs.

Guessing your car hadn't been in for the recall and had the coolant pipe changed? It was a known fault in early cars. The pipe goes brittle and eventually cracks causing it to dump its coolant and overheat = blown head gasket.

singletrackandi » Wow another blown Focus. I bought a 1.0l Ecoboost a few months back and the headgasket went. No independent garage would touch it and Ford told me it would be 2K for the head gasket alone and the price was likely to increase when they opened it up and started to look around.
Luckily for me Ford took it in PX and I'm now in a Diesel C Max.
That engine is completely different to the OPs.

Guessing your car hadn't been in for the recall and had the coolant pipe changed? It was a known fault in early cars. The pipe goes brittle and eventually cracks causing it to dump its coolant and overheat = blown head gasket.

Coolant pipes had all been done on mine, all nice new ones. (read up on this problem, but didn't see that Ford had had a recall) I can only guess it had been boiled before I owned it and I was just unlucky.

Here is another suggestion. The ford dealer has done nothing wrong other than to diagnose the failure and suggest what others have already suggested they would do if in the same position. Expensive but unfortunately the case

Rather than use words like stealer etc, how about you call an independant garage of good repute and ask them how much they would charge to fit a second hand engine that you supply. Then call the ford main delaership who offered to do the same job and has your car sat there in pieces so will probably be in a better position already to finish the job. If they will match price then it just leaves locating an engine.

At the ery least it will give you some brownie points when you go to fordcustomer services and unleash hell on them about know faults etc.

Thats what i would do anyhow

[url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ford-focus-2011-2015-CODE-PNDA-1-6-PETROL-ENGINE-61k-perfect-condition-/262571459147?hash=item3d227a824b:g:YTwAAOSw65FXqz7K ]focus 61k 1.6 petrol engine goes for about £300 on fleabay[/url]

Thelittlehobo if the car has full Fors history I'd lean heavily on the dealer and Ford customer services. Who serviced the car last and when?

Ford KNOW about the hose, dealers know about the hose. It should be the first thing checked at every main dealer service for condition etc.

I'd kick up merry hell.

However if you don't support your LFD with your services you can't do ^^

Klunk dropping In a different engine isn't as easy these days-ecus and immobilisers plus insurance goes nuts.

Tbh insurance ime even get funny about non matching numbers even on same engine.

The dealer (it wasn't me who called them stealers!) have been good about it. The only thing I'd say is that they serviced it 2 days before the first hose ruptured so I may have some comeback there... They have services the car since new, so I have supported the local dealer.

I am beginning to wonder if it's worth the hassle of getting a new engine fitted, or whether to take whatever I can get for it without engine?

2011 model... surely the ecu would cut the engine if it overheated before any damage was done.

I work as a bus mechanic all too often buses overheat and drivers run them until they cut out, these buses are were made in 2007, we don't fit new engines every week.

Why exactly is the engine ****ed as you say, does it run? No misfires, smoke, low on power?

If it just overheats and there are no leaks, it could be the cylinder head gasket (coolant system pressure test will help you determine the problem) which shouldn't warrant a new engine just a new gasket, should be able to get a good price for the job from an indy garage, common car so should be able to to find a lot of garages willing to take up the work.

I'll be surprised if your busses have Ali heads ??

£1000 for a dead Focus with no engine... I can't believe its worth £2.5k. I'd love to be proved wrong but the buyer very much has the upper hand in situations like that. Second hand engine £300 plus £300 for someone to bolt it in for you - job done. Its not rocket science (as long as you keep original ECU etc etc) and no need to inform insurance as long as its the same capacity engine..

Trail - rat

I appreciate that but I'd be very surprised that a modern car would allow the engine to get so hot that it would effectively destroy itself, I may be wrong. I'd just expect the maximum coolant temperature/engine shut down point to be lower with an ali head...

Klunk dropping In a different engine isn't as easy these days-ecus and immobilisers plus insurance goes nuts.

I wasn't suggesting a different engine I don't know what engine code the OP has it was meant as a guide to what he would expect to pay to replace the broken part (it just happen to be towards the top of the search and had a similar mileage).

The head is warped beyond where it can be skimmed, that's why it's dead. It drive - the tech I spoke to said he was really surprised that it was running, but running it was. Outside the parameters for fixing though. I guess because it lost all its coolant it couldn't monitor temperature properly and that's why it cooked...

OP on one line of a post you wrote: "they serviced it 2 days before the first hose ruptured so I may have some comeback there... They have services the car since new, so I have supported the local dealer."

Followed by your thinking which engine to buy.

Sorry, I'll say this again- they KNOW, both dealers and Ford themselves about the weakness of the hoses on the eco boost engines. There MUST be a workshop bulletin that includes checking this/these at every service. To help your case further they saw and serviced the car TWO days before it failed. So you'd think they inspected the engine using their expertise and knowledge that you pay a premium for by choosing a main dealer network. This line can be giggled at but if you talked strongly to both the dealer and H.O using this/these angles I'm sure you'd get a good degree of goodwill. After all you are a loyal customer and their experts should be checking at every service for the known weak points.

Theres a legal expert over on Pistonheads Speed and law section who may be able to help you. However rather than spank 000's on a engine- why not take be firm with the dealer principle/Ford customer services and then take legal advise.

I managed to get 2k knocked off a bill on a 7yr old Bmw mini a few years ago by talking to BMW- abit of research and showing them the known faults (politely but I didnt give up).

Good luck.

Thanks hora, what you say makes sense! I find myself veering all over the place with what to do, partly by a wife who doesn't want the hassle!!

and no need to inform insurance as long as its the same capacity engine..

When coolant leaves engine suddenly te coolant temp gauge goes down first. By the time the temp gauge reads too hot . Your engines burst.

Wife did the same to a golf we had.

bigdaddy -

If it dropped it's coolant, why didn't the low coolant warning go off, unless it didn't work.... after it was just serviced?

No idea, but haven't seen a low coolant warning at any point!

Its not a modification - its a repair - do you tell the insurance if you fit a new exhaust? No. Did your insurance company ask for the engine number when you took out the insurance? No, so why tell them if you change the engine?

Not all cars have them.

I had it on a Hyundai once - glad of it as it needed topping up regular) but 3 fords(all mid 90s mind) a Vauxhall a golf a land rover and two Peugeot's haven't had one. Just a coolant temp sensor.

Your best bet is to find someone who can be bothered to fix it.
If I was going to replace the motor I would get one from billy's, Bridges at Pease
Pottage, or a bloke I bought a lot of ford parts from was up one of the roads on
the right as you headed to Chelsea bridge, I can't be any more specific.

Having seen the comments about it being serviced just before, heavily weights the situation in your favour.

Ask the garage to contact head office to see what help they will offer...if its not very impressive or the dealer is slow off the mark, call them directly with the facts, (not a rant) just a customer looking for goodwill. At best you may get a discount, at worst you should at least be able to wangle warranty rate labour from the garage (perhaps including the work done). And perhaps they will still accept a secondhand engine, although they won't entertain any comeback with subsequent issues.

I went to Honda directly about my Civic after the guy dealing with it sodded off on holiday, it has a known weakness with the clutch (not admitted by Honda, whereas your coolant pipe was a recall so they've admitted a weakness). Second owner, something like 80,000 miles and well out of warranty. I got a free diagnosis, free clutch and paid 2hrs warranty labour rate, they covered the rest. FSH seems to have been a condition of the 'goodwill'.

Get in touch with ford uk especially after being serviced by them 2 days before! Fully main dealer history will help too.

What was done at the recent service? Coolant change? Cambelt? Big coincidence hose goes 2 days after service. Possible but could be another cause.

Also if they first diagnosed it as the hoses then said it was fixed and handed it back to you. Is so wrong. They should of at least took cylinder pressures and checked coolant system after.

I think you d have a good case for at least a big lump off that bill at least.

I must admit. It does strike me as airlock.....

Do check see if coolant was changed.

We all make mistakes although Wouldnt be the first main dealer or Indy garage to have the apprentice doing the servicing.

I agree with trail rat. Something doesn't sound right to me. Garage trying to dodge a bullet especially if they changed coolant. Even if not and they didn't pressure check cylinders. I d fight it.

A bit of an update for you guys who offered such helpful advice and knowledge. We've been very fortunate and been given some inheritance money early to buy a new car, so are able to separate having a working car from fixing and sorting the focus. Such a relief! So new car sorted, and an email (with the dealer's blessing) to ford, suggesting they replace the engine as a compensatory gesture. Well see where that goes! Thanks to all those who helped, this place is great for that stuff...

How did you get on Bigdaddy?

Literally a couple of days after you posted this, my mother in laws 12 or 62 plate Focus has had the same issue. Coolant hose gone, no warning of overheating etc.

She took it to her local garage who replaced the hose and then told her the engine was stuffed. It was trailered to the main dealer in Barnsley and to be fair to them they've been great. Have said they'll cover all costs despite it being out of warranty and the last service or two not being with them. She even lucked out and has managed to get a courtesy car from them.

Hope yours turned out as easy.

How long have you had it? Was it new? Is there new car warranty left on it?