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My son (13 year 8) managed to sand a good chunk off the tips of 5 fingers including a good portion of the nails as well today in DT class. the teacher did manage to take him out of the class and pop him in to another DT class room of year 10 students for their teacher to take him to the first aid room, where eventually a first aider cleaned the bleeding fingers and pop some plasters on to them.
At the time and for the rest of the day he was feeling sick and said his fingers hurt, they did nothing.
Not once did the school attempt to contact us as the school policy is only if they have a bump to the head or administer medication.
Whilst Charlie was ushered out of class his mate did a similar thing but only to 1 finger, and when he was with Charlie washing his finger in another DT class turned green and collapsed on to him.
My wife ( a nurse) has sorted out his dressings and contacted the Dr's
Obviously when we found out I phoned the school to find out what is going on but in the last 2 hours they have not managed to contact us.
Complaints to the school and academy trust will be going in tomorrow, anyone else we should be contacting?
Complaints to the school and academy trust will be going in tomorrow, anyone else we should be contacting?<br /><br />
Daily Mail?
What safety instructions had been given to your son prior to this?
Was he meant to be using the machine?
I can't help with the legal stuff but can confirm that it hurts like a bitch when you do it, especially with a bench sander.
Not once did the school attempt to contact us as the school policy is only if they have a bump to the head or administer medication.
So is the complaint that policy is no good or they should have gone against policy in this event?
I mean, it does sound quite serious but before going all Falling Down what actually is your complaint about and what do you want done about it. Being clear in your own mind is likely to get a better response in my mind than simply raging that "this isn't right and someone has to be punished!!"
This was pretty regular rite of passage in my woodwork lessons in comp in the 80s.
So is the complaint that policy is no good or they should have gone against policy in this event?
I mean, it does sound quite serious but before going all Falling Down what actually is your complaint about and what do you want done about it. Being clear in your own mind is likely to get a better response in my mind than simply raging that “this isn’t right and someone has to be punished!!”
Indeed, to me it sounds like the complaint is around it taking too long for first aid to be given, or that you weren't informed fast enough?
If the latter, and policy was followed, then the complaint would be that the policy should be revised?
Just how bad is the injury? "sand a good chunk off the tips of 5 fingers including a good portion of the nails" sounds like it should be a straight to hospital job?
This was pretty regular rite of passage in my woodwork lessons in comp in the 80s.
as was throwing chisels at each other.............kids nowadays
You didn't mention any power tools. Please assure us that this was a belt sander injury, not just your son rubbing his bloody finger stubs up and down a bit of course sandpaper out of sheer boredom?
Sounds to me like you lad learned a lesson today that he will not repeat.
Came to offer advice about what primer and gloss to finish them off with. Disappointed.
This was pretty regular rite of passage in my woodwork lessons in comp in the 80s.
Same, along with drilling holes in anything that didn't bleed, and occasionally things that did.
Any chance he could do some crime tonight? He aint getting caught...
Complaints to the school and academy trust will be going in tomorrow, anyone else we should be contacting?
what is your complaint? That he got hurt in school, or that they didn’t immediately contact you about what they perceived as a minor injury?
if it’s the former - your son probably learned more today than he has in the year so far about safety in woodwork, listening to teachers instructions and empathy for those who have hurt themselves! You may be about to teach him that “whatever story you tell us we will believe and the school will be at fault”.
if it’s the latter, how serious do you want it to be before they call you? A paper cut? A grazed knee? Your criteria seem unlikely - presumably a broken arm, major laceration needing stitches, a seizure, would all get you called but are neither a head injury nor dealt with by medication so it’s likely you are getting a 13yr olds version of the policy. Did he explicitly ask them to call you? Is he the only 13 yr old in the country without a phone, or at the only school in the country with such a strict phone policy that after injuring himself he couldn’t call you himself?
Any chance he could do some crime tonight? He aint getting caught… unless they are still bleeding - then the DNA might be a bugger!
DT teacher here.......
I would be very good to know, what machine they were using, what were they sanding and how was the guarding set.
A belt sanding machine (my guess, it could be a sanding disc and nothing much changes provided there is a quarter guard) is at that level of risk that I would expect to have given full instructions for it's use, observed them using it safely but after that in future lessons that would be on my remote supervision list - i.e. I would expect a competent adult to be in the room, the kid to ask permission before using, but not directly 1-2-1 supervising it's use. I'd also have given instructions about the minimum size of object that could be used on the machine, the minimum distance their fingers needed to be from the belt and that all objects to be sanded must be flat to the bed and not hand held or held on edge.
Despite all that kids mess up by not following instructions from time to time. Where I am concerned about that narrative is two similar incidents is such quick succession. That rather indicates poor training or they were being asked (or allowed to get away with) sanding lumps of whatever that were too small. Also, after incident number one the class would be having a refresher at your kid's expense before anyone else used it.
As to the not phoning parents - clearly not seen the injuries and they could be worse than they sound and your wife will know better as a nurse but my threshold would be beyond minor injury involving a plaster and someway before a trip to A&E.....dictated by school policy and determined by the nurse/first aider responsible for such things at the school.
such a strict phone policy that after injuring himself he couldn’t call you himself?
Touch screens are hard to operate with bloody stumps as fingers 😀
Why has your wife contacted the Dr's? If he needs extra assistance to your wife's dressings why isn't she taking him to a walk in clinic or A&E.
It starts with covering your hands in PVC glue in primary school..
The students should have been given a full demonstration on how to safely use the sander and the teacher should have given explicit instruction to keep fingers well away from the belt/disc at the very minimum. One to one tuition or peer observation would be a good idea.
Find out from your Son what information he had been given before using the sander before going in all guns blazing.
We all make mistakes and have accidents, hopefully he learns to keep his hands away from anything sharp.
[i]Same, along with drilling holes in anything that didn’t bleed, and occasionally things that did.[/i]
I remember a class where we learnt to set the height/depth on a pillar drill so it drilled into, but not through a bit of metal. when one of the kids was mouthy about how stupid and easy it was the teacher got him to demonstrate -
- by measuring how thick his finger was between the pad and the nail, setting the drill accordingly and then holding the kids hand onto the drill base plate and lowering the drill. All the time reminding him how simple it was (might have used the same sweary phrase used by the student).
He did stop before the drill got too close, but after the kid had wet himself.
I did this on a rotary sander attached to the back of a lathe... lost two fingernails.
Gets you out of PE for ages.
Parents weren't informed but this was the 90s
I would step carefully. The fact that his mate seems to have deliberately injured himslef immediately after your son hurt himself seems to imply that not much common sense was in evidence from the pupils. If there was no permanent damage I would settle for an informal chat with the relevant teachers rather than demanding an official inquest.
No D&T back in my day. Separate technical drawing, metalwork and woodwork classes. Motor vehicle technology was an option too.
I do remember a kid dropping a chisel on his foot in woodwork. There was a lot of blood and the most godawful scream. I still wince thinking about it. The teacher called him a clumsy idiot and didn't rush to get him any help.
The main surreptitious cottage industry in metalwork was making 'kung fu stars'. They were neither well made nor very aerodynamic but could be sold for a reasonable profit in the playground.
Tech drawing was reasonably safe apart from drawing pins on chairs and the odd stabbing with a compass.
Tech drawing was reasonably safe
I permentantly tattoed my art teacher with a little black dot by accidently stabbing him in the hand with a Rotring drafstmans pen! Thankfully he saw the funny side of it!
One of these bad boys 😀
Not a tech teacher but I am a teacher. I wont comment on the injury specifics as I haven't seen it, wasn't there etc... I. Hope your son is ok.
However, you phoned a school with an issue that is not life threatening. No reply within 2 hours seems entirely normal. If I was asked to call a parent at 8am this morning the soonest I would have been able to was 5.15 post meeting. 5 lessons, break time supervising students, lunch time supervising students, meeting immediately after school. Not a hero, just standard fare for teachers, we can't always phone back promptly, even if we would like to im afraid.
Ooh let's have some workshop incidents.
A large lathe chuck narrowly missed my head as it flew off and the metalwork teacher's foot as it landed.
Our woodwork teacher took the end off his thumb on the circular saw - what chance did we stand?
I permentantly tattoed my art teacher with a little black dot by accidently stabbing him in the hand with a Rotring drafstmans pen!
Can't do that with a CAD workstation.
sandboy
Full MemberThe students should have been given a full demonstration on how to safely use the sander
STW never fails to deliver 😆
This thread makes me feel old,I am laughing at all the 'wrong' parts 😅
Ooh let’s have some workshop incidents.
I once jacked my car up to do something, can't remember what, but the ground wasn't level enough..you can guess where this is going....
I heard a creaking that was one of the axle stands starting to slip/fold... I've never moved so fast in my life.
Could have been very messy, probably lethal... luckily a semi squished axle stand and ruined underwear was the worst of the damage.
@fasthaggis, it’s called covering one’s behind.
One of the reasons why I went back on the tools is because common sense isn’t that common and unfortunately, parents want someone to blame rather than seeing it as an accident and hopefully, learning experience.
Risk assessment and method statements are in place for students to follow.
If for some reason they didn’t watch the demonstration or listen to instructions then it’s on the individual if something like this happens.
Unfortunately it’s the way these days.
Please do consider how much your emotions are driving this. For example, if your son fell of riding around a red route and took off a load of skin, would you put in a complaint to the trail manager? Or would you consider risk a part of riding and your son will be fine long term?
At what point is there responsibility for your son to take more care? Those machines are there and used by classes, and have been for decades, and most of the time the users don't sand thier fingers off...
Nothing in life is safe. No one can promise, and you cannot expect, complete safety. On occasion incidents happen.
Preparing children and young adults for life means allowing them learn how to manage risk judgements first hand - and that means taking managed risks. He will be careful around power tools for life. Lesson learned.
Also know that the teacher and other staff are all at home tonight sh*tt*ng bricks about those complaints you are threatening, and reflecting what they need to do differently.
IMO it's reasonable to ask how things occurred. To learn from. I'm intrigued what your goal is with the complaints you're ready to throw around before you've got full facts and before your emotions have calmed down.
@sandboy..it was your username and comment I was pointing out,not the safety guidance 😉 😆
😂 sorry, bit slow tonight!
Something here does not quite add up to me. I guess when your kid is hurt everything seems serious but "managed to sand a good chunk off the tips of 5 fingers including a good portion of the nails" is a serious incident probably requiring a trip to hospital IMO not " a first aider cleaned the bleeding fingers and pop some plasters on to them" if the sanding has gone thru the skin into the pulp underneath and removed fingernails its a serious disfiguring injury. Or do you mean just the free part of the nails not going into the nail bed? Just thru the top layers of the skin which will hurt and bleed but will heal perfectly well.
If it is the more serious version then the School did not act well at all. If its the less serious version then is the OP over reacting ( understandably) to his kids injury?
Sounds to me like you lad learned a lesson today that he will not repeat.
Every day's a schoo.... Oh, wait 🤦🏻♂️
OP I hope your son's OK - but I really do despair sometimes 🤷🏻♂️
I'm sure he's learned to listen more carefully to instructions today.
The main surreptitious cottage industry in metalwork was making ‘kung fu stars’. They were neither well made nor very aerodynamic but could be sold for a reasonable profit in the playground.
this just gave me a proustian moment. Innocent times, making pointy things to poke and throw at each other.
On the rare occasion I maim a pupil in my science lessons I usually try to call home that day to speak to parents. Preferably before the child gets home and blames me! I've only been to court once in 20 years so it mostly works well.
Thread didn't go how the OP hoped did it, common sense on display
Please assure us that this was a belt sander injury, not just your son rubbing his bloody finger stubs up and down a bit of course sandpaper out of sheer boredom?
That would definitely show a great deal of tenacity if nothing else.
Great post Matt.
To add to my last post after a moment to think about it........damaged all 5 finger tips - I'd put my money on your kid attempting to sand a sheet bit of material (mdf, ply etc) thinner (or saving elbow grease finishing by hand) by holding it flat against the belt. It slips and you sand all your fingers. That'll be a freestyle manoeuvre only considered sensible in a 13 yr old boy's mind!
Please assure us that this was a belt sander injury, not just your son rubbing his bloody finger stubs up and down a bit of course sandpaper out of sheer boredom?<br /><br />
No no no. You’ve got to use very fine grit wet and dry, slightly wet. That way you get the top layer off without feeling a thing. More 80s woodwork memories flooding back
Can we do Bunsen burners now?
I cut the palm of my hand quite deeply in my metalwork O level- off to the nurse, butterfly stitches and back to the exam. I passed. My first thoughts from the OP about the second pupil doing the same as his son were that they’d seen a good plan for time off hence only one digit- minimum pain for maximum gain!
I think it’s a wonder we all survived practical subjects in the 70’s - as for chemistry lessons…
Did you not teach him rule #1? Never put your fingers where you wouldn’t put your dick?
Can we do Bunsen burners now?
Teacher demonstrated boiling water in a pyrex pot for some experiment and we had to replicate this, sent away to collect items needed and continue at desks. For some reason unknow I picked up a plastic pot, lit burner and commenced the boiling of water. The stench of burning plastic and smoke filled the room then set off fire alarm and the blackboard duster bounced off my head simultaneously... happy days
70s chemistry lessons. Two of my class ended up in hospital as they got bromine solution on their hands from shaking test tubes full of it. The solution had been made wrongly and was 100x as concentrated as it was supposed to be. Iirc
We also blew up a fume cupboard making aluminium tri iodide and stealing magnesium ribbon to set on fire in the playground was both a sport and a challenge
Physics? We attached a van der graff generator to the inside door handle of the physics lab last lesson before lunch. When the teacher went in after lunch the shock rather surprised him
Ah. Magnesium ribbon. That brings back memories 😂
To the OP, sorry to hear that...hope he's feeling better this evening .
Teacher here.
I’m waiting for confirmation that this was a belt sander.
I really hope that the child isn’t hurt seriously.
I ask that you talk to staff at the school and make sure you have the full story before lodging a complaint. If you still want to complain later that’s your choice.
Obviously schools have a duty of care. Generally schools take this very seriously. But the net effect of complaints and threats of legal action has been to make schools less effective.
and stealing magnesium ribbon
That is a rite of passage, surely?!
How the science department didn't realise they had a lot less magnesium than they should, is a mystery!
When's circular saw week?
Complaints to the school and academy trust will be going in tomorrow, anyone else we should be contacting?
So my very non PC workshop induction had the line "everything is design to cut metal, your fingers are not metal and pose not threat to the equipment.
If your daft enough to reach past the guard* don't be surprised buy the pain".
In +10yrs the worse injury was a lad who ran the lathe backwards the tried to pick up the part (I heard the his two machines away). He didn't do it again though.
Was he told to not sand with finger too close to the abrasive? How did he not notice his fingers were against the sander?
* The guards actually posed a bigger risk as they impeded your view of the cutter.
Did you not teach him rule #1? Never put your fingers where you wouldn’t put your dick?
Even though it was +16yr olds I don't think i'd get away with that, though overalls tied around the waste did get you a telling off and asking which part of your body would be dragged into the machine first.
When’s circular saw week?
It will follow nail gun practical.
set off fire alarm
Fire alarm? Posh ***t 😂
We had a lad blow up a thistle funnel in chemistry when I was in school. He was making hydrogen gas by dissolving calcium or magnesium iirc in acid. Instead of letting it bubble him and a couple of others were putting loads more in and putting their hands on the top to up the pressure and get the jet of hydrogen to blow further. This was all fine until it went bang in a big way and he was wearing the thistle funnel in what seemed to be a thousand bits in/ on his face and hands, including a good long section of the glass tube embedded in his cheek. If that wasn’t bad enough for our very amateur school nurse (who I’m sure was no more qualified than the librarian at first aid) our class vegetarian fainted and banged her head after she saw the pools of blood on the floor! It was carnage. He did recover but had some nasty scarring. Chemistry was a little less hairy after that. This was the top set as well!
Ex-DT teacher here 😁
I'll echo plenty of what's been said above...
- There will be risk assessments in place.
- Students will have had the machinery demoed and explained to them in detail.
- They should have had to demonstrate safe use of the machinery to a member of staff before being allowed to use it on their own.
- rules will be in place, such as min size of piece to be used on machine, no of students queuing/waiting, safety marks on the floor, etc.
All that being said, teenagers are teenagers, and I'd always have one or two per year who wouldn't listen or would get cocky and then the machine would bite.
School should contact you, but bear in mind teachers are really busy!
Please assure us that this was a belt sander injury, not just your son rubbing his bloody finger stubs up and down a bit of course sandpaper out of sheer boredom?
That would definitely show a great deal of tenacity if nothing else.
Ha, you'd think. But I had children sand off fingertip skin while polishing pewter on 600 wet and dry. Quite common actually, even when warned repeatedly.
How the science department didn’t realise they had a lot less magnesium than they should, is a mystery!
Spin that.... These are people that got into that job because they love a bit of chemistry. Get past the corduroy and the elbow patches, making weird shit do cool shit is what they get off on. Now, in these constricted times you might not be allowed to encourage kids to **** around with chemistry in their own time, and if you could do the awkward sods wouldn't because you said you wanted them to. But.....turn a blind eye at the right time and the good shit gets delivered to where it's most needed, you are in the clear when they **** up and the next generation of chemistry nutters is born. Ain't Chemistry brilliant!
My son (13 year 8) managed to sand a good chunk off the tips of 5 fingers including a good portion of the nails as well today in DT class.
At what stage did he think - "oooh, yah bugger, this smarts a bit!?" Sanding five fingers down sounds like someone was pissing about.
The op is probably waiting for the Daily Fail reporter & photographer to arrive.
Stand by for the obligatory sad faces compo picture, plus at least we'll know the value of the op's house.
It’s a ‘learning experience’.
magnesium ribbon to set on fire in the playground
Even more dramatic in the confined space fume cupboard that is the back of the school bus 🙄
Spin that…. These are people that got into that job because they love a bit of chemistry. Get past the corduroy and the elbow patches, making weird shit do cool shit is what they get off on. Now, in these constricted times you might not be allowed to encourage kids to * around with chemistry in their own time, and if you could do the awkward sods wouldn’t because you said you wanted them to. But…..turn a blind eye at the right time and the good shit gets delivered to where it’s most needed, you are in the clear when they * up and the next generation of chemistry nutters is born. Ain’t Chemistry brilliant!
Me and a few schoolfriends made jolly Roger cookbook pipe bombs and tried thermiting a gas main with stolen chemistry lesson magnesium......I'm now responsible for the engineering aspects of a Tier1 COMAH chemical site so your theory works out.
the tool in question was a disc sander, it had a quarter guard on it, he was sanding a small name plate and it got dragged between the table and the sanding disc followed by his fingers. He was doing as he was instructed as was his mate.
Nature, sorts the wheat from the chaff.
the tool in question was a disc sander, it had a quarter guard on it, he was sanding a small name plate and it got dragged between the table and the sanding disc followed by his fingers. He was doing as he was instructed as was his mate.
Tbh that sounds too small. If it will fit between the disc and the table then it's dangerous, especially for an inexperienced user.
The table/disc gap should be set as small as possible - defo a lot less than finger width!
I'd be questioning the machine set-up, risk assessment of piece size, and general instructions, i.e. is the piece smaller than others, or had the teacher not realise the risk of the smaller piece being worked on.
My kids go to the same secondary school I did. I learned more in the dt workshops than anywhere else. They were brilliantly equipped and as a sensible kid I was given free rein welding, using lathes and multi axis milling machine from 13. The workshops only have a 3D printer and a vac former in now. Everything else gone now due to health and safety concerns. Such a shame that kids can’t learn practical skills
All that being said, teenagers are teenagers
They are. I like to think of myself as a sensible type, but age 15 or so I discovered I could throw the very sharp marking knife at the bench and it would stick in and look cool. So I moved further away and did it again, and again, til I was on the other side of the room. Of course at this point it needed quite a lot of welly; and the angle between knife and bench had decreased to the point where it finally ricocheted off the bench and a few mm from my mate's face.
I'm sensible now because back then I was lucky. As was my mate.
the tool in question was a disc sander, it had a quarter guard on it, he was sanding a small name plate and it got dragged between the table and the sanding disc followed by his fingers. He was doing as he was instructed as was his mate.
That would only happen if they were sanding the back of it flat on the disc. It 100% would not happen if sanding the edge, with the name plate flat on the bed. Asking him specifically if sanding the back was the instruction. I would really hope it wasn't. Do you trust him to tell the truth?
He was doing as he was instructed as was his mate.
Of course he was 🙄
I once demonstrated to a class that a mixture of ethanol and bits of sodium shouldn't be disposed off down the sink.
When it hits the trap the sodium reacts with the water and if there enough ethanol you get a lovely blue tower of flame out of the plughole.
(Bloody silly sodium ethoxide demo)
I wish my enthusiasm had been curbed there. Hexane oxygen demo heard about a mile away.
Ethanol rocket with a massive drinks cooler bottle. (All risk assessed and approved by head of department but probably not acceptable now).
This exact thing happend in my first observed lesson as a trainee. I felt awful!
These things happen. If they had called you, what would be different?
Ethanol rocket with a massive drinks cooler bottle<br /><br />
pray tell more? I have some of those bottles to make water bottle rockets and plasma cannons for scouts.
Ethanol sounds like it’ll be fun!
Spent most of woodwork making truncheons and most of metalwork making throwing stars, both of which would be illegal these days. Come to think of it the school workshops were essentially weapons factories. We survived with only a few puncher wounds to show for it.
Hope child heals fast.
Can we do Bunsen burners now?
I was a WGBE as a teenager. Chemistry teacher told me he’d had enough of my shenanigans disrupting the class and would ignore any further attempts to disrupt his lesson. That was a challenge to teenage me. I set fire to a curtain with a Bunsen burner. Definitely got his attention!
I remember our 6th form chemistry teacher (in his first job), obviously wanting to impress us with a biggish thermite demo. Watching the (not very fireproof) roof tiles melt & drip onto the floor was magic !
Hope your son is okay OP. This bit though
He was doing as he was instructed as was his mate.
Who told you this was the case?
My cousin was a technology teacher. He once told me that he always told his pupils that it isn't only the tip of a soldering iron that gets hot, but any part of it other than the handle. He told me that more or less every single student that ever learnt to solder would burn their fingers at one time or another. He used the expression "a useful one-hit learning experience" as very few students ever burnt themselves twice.
Ah, Design and Technology it holds a special place in my heart. Awarded highest mark in the local education authority, and proud of my A* at GCSE and A-level!
My dad also taught DT for twenty odd years. That may or may not have had an influence on my results!
Gotta agree with the majority above. It doesn't sound like anything other than a bit of an accident and going off down the blame game won't help anyone.
Dad's favourite story - kid using a soldering iron. Someone nicks his little damp yellow sponge from its wire stand. So kid dabs tip of soldering iron on his tongue.
Oh and always remember - sharp tools are much, much safer than blunt tools.
TBH its the teacher who sounds a bit of a duffer. He should have seen that sanding the flat of a thin nameplate might slip between the pad and the table which is clearly too far away from the pad, which should only be a couple of mil.
He should have I suppose, placed a false bed on it using a wide flat piece of mdf or wood, held in place with a clamp so the gap would be zero.
I am surprised that disc sanders are used in schools now as they were so often misused. If I recall we were told to remove them in the early 1990’s in the LA I worked in and when I moved to another college in a different authority in 1999 there were none in their workshops either.