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Long and short, him and his friend also 13 years old walking back to his friends house at 5.30pm when two older teenagers approached them asking for their phones, he then put his arm round my sons friend with a flick knife. They both handed their phones over which were handed back to them as they weren't iPhones. Once his friend was released from the neck lock they both ran as fast as they could back to his friends house. We received a call from his friends mother telling us what had happened. We went straight round, police called who turned up within 25 mins. statements taken etc. Police said we wont be hearing back as they simply don't have the resources.
My son is clearly shocked but taking it in his stride, he didn't try to fight or answer back when it was happening which we are immensely proud of him for not doing do - he has autism and can be a mouthy sod, knows kick boxing etc he kept his cool.
He hasn't had a great day today at school, emailed school to let them know so they were well aware of the situation.
My wife is in pieces, I'm pissed off he didn't call me the minute he could as I like all alpha dads was ready to kick the living sh1t out of the ****s. Happened less than a mile from home. In reality I wouldn't have done that though absolutely felt like doing so. We have all been affected by low life scum.
This all took place on Saturday afternoon.
Keep safe ! ****s are everywhere
Police said we wont be hearing back as they simply don’t have the resources.
Wow. Attempted robbery with knife now doesn't get investigated. Unreal.
Christ that's horrible. Not surprised that everyone is shaken up by it.
Not sure what to say other than its sad that Police don't have resource to deal with this kind of thing and nip crime in the bud before it becomes something serious (not detracting from what happened)
****ing hell that’s proper scary. Hope your son is Ok keep check for him going quiet, getting angry or that wanting to socialise as could be a sign he’s struggling.
Attempted robbery with knife now doesn’t get investigated.
Does it mean it won't be investigated or simply that they won't keep the OP informed of the progress of any investigation?
But shit - that's awful OP. As the dad of two 13 yr old girls I couldn't imagine how I'd be feeling right now if something like this happened to either of them. Hopefully, he'll bounce back - as we know, kids are pretty resilient usually.
I've been mugged before, It's not nice so I sympathise... It does have a psycological effect, at least on me as Im hyper alert when walking on my own and its made me quite paranoid, so watch out for stuff like that in your son.
What I dont get is modern smartphones must be next to useless when stolen? Unless they are being sent overseas for unlock and sale, but what does that make an iphone worth to a street thug? Next to nothing cash wise I would have thought... armed robbery for what is essentially pocket change, just makes no sense to me.
I Really feel for you. What an awful situation. Your son was mature for a 13 year old and absolutely did the correct thing.
My nephew was about 11/12/13 when he learnt a martial art. He's now 19 and we think it's helped with his confidence and to hopefully stand him in good stead for any dreadful incident, such as your son had.
What on earth is happening to this country when the police can't protect children and stop these scum bags from properly murdering someone who wasn't as clear thinking as your son.
Hugs, bunnyhop
Perhaps local newspaper might be an option? Might prompt some more police action and be enough to put the wind up the thugs before they graduate on to anything else.
Teenagers are prone to very stupid actions. They may have thought it just a bit of a laugh, so need to learn that lesson quickly.
Horrible event for all your family. Scumbags.
That is truly horrible. But much to be grateful for - no one was physically hurt, which is by far the most important thing. And ffs nothing was even stolen.
Not trivializing it at all btw, your son, his friend, and families concerning, will all have been deeply affected by this, if only emotionally. But it's important to see it also from a greater perspective imo.
I got mugged twice when in my early teens (back in the 80's) once by some older boys and once by a slightly drunken adult. Didn't make much sense as back then teenagers were unlikely to have something as valuable as an iphone, so all they got was pocket change. The police were disinterested then as well.
I had largely forgotten about both incidents within weeks, no need for such events to traumatise young kids. Obviously keep an eye on how he is doing, but be careful not to inflame the impact by pushing your own fears and nightmares onto him. My parents really played down the seriousness of the events, after a quick chat it was just life as normal we never talked about either event again, and I think that was probably the right thing to do.
Police said we wont be hearing back as they simply don’t have the resources.
Sincerely hope this means that they wont be updating you, rather than they wont be pursuing it.
@unfitgeezer feel for you and your son. Had a similar, but less scary situation yesterday with my 14yo autistic son. A group of teenagers started picking on him and a friend whilst kicking a football around. I got a call and was there pretty quickly.
Did the alpha dad thing, made myself big and shouted at a group of teenagers, they fled, thankfully.
First time he's been out in months, this has set him back, gutted for him
Genuinely worried some numpty is going to pull a knife on him or me protecting him at some point.
The police have been useless regarding following issues like these up for years though, the only reason I'd contact them now is to cover my own arse so I don't chase groups down and get myself into trouble with plod...
Hope the kids are okay OP. Some real dickheads out there. Glad your son and his friend reacted the way they did. Keeping calm is not the easiest thing to do in these sort of situations.
Police officer was very clear they wouldn’t be following it up. This is the metropolitan police who are beyond screwed up.
That must have been a horrific exp for the pair of them. Cant blame you for feeling as you do
(Being pedantic the thread title doesn’t make any sense btw)
Sh*t op, that's horrible. Genuinely scary to even comprehend.
Please don't take this as just unquestioning "sticking up for the police" but it's been an eye opener since my lad started a couple of months back in the force.
Much of their time is spent as very ill equipped "social workers". Whole shifts spent at hospitals waiting for someone with profound mental health problems etc to be assessed and (hopefully) an agency to take care of them. It's shocking frankly, everything, just everything, is broken.
Genuinely not taking away from your son, I want to reiterate that.
Police said we wont be hearing back as they simply don’t have the resources.
This is fubar.
What poopscoop says.
We have lost 20,000 police officers off the streets in the last 12 years and the rest are covering social work because our social services are in bits.
The reality of broken Britain.
In contrast my son was threatened and had stuff taken from him at knife point in East Dumbartonshire. The thug involved got 3 months or something like that jail time. A few years ao now though. Knew the guy from school so identifying him not a problem.
My daughter got robbed at knife point. Central Glasgow Statements taken but nobody identified.
My wife got threatened in Kelvingrovepark, Glasgow. Picked out the suspect from photos. He had done similar stuff to another woman. Convicted at trial. Jail sentence of a few months.
Suppose two out of three isn't bad.
The MET sound pretty hopeless. I can't believe they are just writing it off immediately.
Police officer was very clear they wouldn’t be following it up. This is the metropolitan police who are beyond screwed up.
I witnessed a couple of teenagers (and their dog) getting stabbed a couple of years ago - traffic came to a standstill and it spilt out on the road right in front of me.
The injuries were serious but not life threatening and apparently gang related. The injured teenagers were found in someone's front garden about three quarters of a mile away by the police and taken to hospital.
The police asked through the press for witnesses to contact them although they made it clear that they would not necessarily follow it up. I forwarded my details but never heard from them.
I guess that a non-fatal gang related stabbing in Croydon isn't a huge priority for the Met and its limited resources. I don't think it is because they spend their time sitting on their arses in the cop shop watching the telly.
I think also, eye witness descriptions of criminals/attackers are notoriously inaccurate and largely pointless. Unless something is caught on camera or somehow held at the scene, there probably isn't a lot for the police to investigate.
I doubt I could describe the faces of people I have known for years in any way that could be used to distinguish them from lots of other people.
I could probably have given a reasonable description of the guy a few inches away from my fully locked car as he slowly walked around it holding a knife the size of a small sword with two hands!
An attempt robbery is one of the most serious offences for which the maximum sentence is life imprisonment. To not conduct even a rudimentary investigation in the case of an attempt robbery is disgusting.
At the age of 13 your son is considered a vulnerable victim of crime, and as such qualifies for enhanced victim services, and cannot be written off like this.
This is contrary to the Met’s own “Victims code of Practice.
https://www.met.police.uk/SysSiteAssets/foi-media/metropolitan-police/disclosure_2021/may_2021/current-victims-code-of-practice2
VCOP is a statutory code that describes the minimum level of service a victim of crime should receive. All Police forces around the country must adhere to it.
I would phone again & ask to speak to a supervisor for the area in which it happened, and consider complaining. It is a serious offence, it’s not a mugging, a bag snatch etc. it’s the use/threat of unlawful violence that ramps it right up. Don’t settle for the Bollox the met has told you.
An attempt robbery is one of the most serious offences for which the maximum sentence is life imprisonment. To not conduct even a rudimentary investigation in the case of an attempt robbery is disgusting.
Agreed. Sentencing guidelines for attempted robbery with a bladed article start at 4 years custodial sentence, longer if physical or psychological harm is caused.
That being said, without a witness or cctv footage, it will be almost impossible to follow up in any meaningful way, so I can understand from that point of view.
Perhaps the very dismissive approach from the police is a sign of the times in them wanting to be blunt about how bad the situation is for them so the public start to wake up to the reality but it's more likely just the Met being a shower.
This is the metropolitan police who are beyond screwed up.
Right. The Met. That’s really all one needs to know. They’ve been an indelible stain on British policing for decades, a total embarrassment and really ought to be dismantled and no former member allowed anywhere near any form of law enforcement, or even security at all.
That being said, without a witness or cctv footage, it will be almost impossible to follow up in any meaningful way, so I can understand from that point of view.
But without conducting an investigation other than taking an initial statement they wouldn’t know of the existence of witnesses or CCTV. Ring doorbells, home cctv, in-car dashcam, people walking by with mobile phones are all sources of evidence that may not be immediately apparent to either the victim or Police. For example when being threatened with a knife it’s perfectly natural to develop tunnel vision & auditory exclusion; the victim often doesn’t realise there was a number of bystanders, so although they might say “nobody else was there”, they’ve actually just blocked it out due to the direct & immediate threat they’re facing. Basic investigation starts with things like door to door enquiries, and are virtually mandatory in the event of a robbery & often elicit valuable information. The number of times I’ve knocked on someone’s door to be told “oh yeah, I saw the lad who lives at number so & so with his mate knocking around the other night; they looked up to no good” & when I’ve then knocked on at number so & so the lad perfectly matches a description… investigation isn’t rocket science, it’s pretty much where the phrase “Plod” come from.
A local appeal on social media or in a local rag can draw out further information by jogging folks’ memories.
To tell a young victim of robbery/attempt robbery/assault that they won’t be hearing back from the Police due to resources just ain’t good enough & should be challenged.
^ This - it would be ridiculous not to at least check for CCTV, door bell and car cameras on the street the offence took place in. I'd be complaining if that didn't happen. Sure, if that turned up nothing useful then any further investigation is unlikely to be successful and probably not worth doing given the very limited resources but to not do anything in unacceptable. It's pretty obvious this won't be a one-time thing for the offenders.
Wow. Attempted robbery with knife now doesn’t get investigated. Unreal.
Shows how under resourced the "justice" system is.
Does it mean it won’t be investigated or simply that they won’t keep the OP informed of the progress of any investigation?
It means that the police are underfunded and under resourced. They don't have the detectives to investigate every crime.
My post office was robbed last year and we had the same response when we called the police "I'm afraid we probably won't be able to allocate and officer and it won't be investigated further" - we had CCTV of the robbery, but it was insufficient for prosecution. The lady the robbed us had been doing multiple post offices over a number of months, the postoffice's own security team knew who she was and where she lives, so they added our case to the numerous others so when the police finally catch her it'll be thrown in the mix at the court case.
Police funding is much more reliant on council tax in the last few years and councils/police are all also effected by cost of living etc... All of the increased costs are being taken up by our council tax increases - not government funding from general taxation. Also spending on "national priorities" have dramatically increased over the last few years.
It means that the police are underfunded and under resourced. They don’t have the detectives to investigate every crime.
Yes the Police are underfunded & each force suffered millions of £’s of cuts just a few years ago. However, what you’re talking about is a concern at PCC & strategic command level. Although budget cuts have trickled down to impact front line policing, this is usually the support they receive & administrative staff who have seen the biggest impact.
A Robbery/attempt robbery/burglary/theft/theft of vehicle/drugs/criminal damage are all classed as “volume crime”, which is Always investigated in the first instance by a local or response Police Constable. A detective wouldn’t get anywhere near this until at least a basic/preliminary investigation took place. In this instance it doesn’t appear to have got that far. This is all basic policing which can & should be done by even the most inexperienced probationer. Lack of funding hasn’t caused this PC to be lazy, disinterested or incompetent; i might be being a little unfair as I don’t know everything that’s happened, but budget cuts aren’t responsible for a PC not conducting their very reason for being. When I say this I say it from a particular point of view that despairs when this type of thing is cited as reasons for folks not doing their jobs. At the very least, personal professional pride should also inform their actions.
To tell a young victim of robbery/attempt robbery/assault that they won’t be hearing back from the Police due to resources just ain’t good enough & should be challenged.
But who are you going to challenge? The people responsible for this?
And it is against that ^^ background that we have this:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/30-teens-murdered-bloodiest-year-25826800
2021 was the bloodiest year for teenage homicides - 42 in the whole of England and Wales but 30 were in London.
I don't know what the figures are but I would be surprised if the Met had more resources than the whole of the rest of England and Wales put together. Certainly not two or three times more.
Great advice from Mildred there.
I'd be calmly but firmly pursuing why an attempted armed robbery was being sidelined along with all the bike thefts and stuff we're used to the police ignoring due to workload.
Good that your lad has shaken it off, teenagers can be very resilient, but as adults I don't think any of us want youths going round threatening people with knives.
My post office was robbed last year and we had the same response when we called the police “I’m afraid we probably won’t be able to allocate and officer and it won’t be investigated further”
Armed robbery or shoplifting? Robbery of POs usually gets a very serious reaction from police, I thought.
At the very least, personal professional pride should also inform their actions.
I dont work in the Police so can't comment directly, but there is only so much you can do in a shift. The lad wasnt harmed physically (although I am sure he has been mentally) nothing was stolen. I am sure there are cases of harm and theft that happened that day that will be taking up the Police resource. I am not condoning their action, just pointing out the fact of the situation.
Personally I think the only action is to contact the local MP and the Home Secretary asking for more resource in the Police. Waiting for the standard response "We are investing x million in Policing" blah blah
This is why nurses and doctors are striking too. Everyday they are having to make decisions about who gets care and who doesnt. Someone at the bottom of the tree doesnt unfortunately get the care they need.
Yes Ernie, but as I mentioned these are Mainly support staff roles:
More than 9,300 police staff jobs have been lost from the Metropolitan police force since 2010, figures from GMB, the union for police staff, reveal.
The figures include an eye-watering cut of 3,396 or 72 percent of Police Community Support Officer roles (PCSOs)
Which, though this makes an officer’s job more difficult, does not remove their professional responsibility to investigate a reported crime. I worked within a response type role for over 20 years and I’m still a Police officer. I cannot imagine one reason why an attempt robbery would not warrant a basic investigation. Yes, a cop may get resumed to another incident, but it doesn’t mean the last one didn’t occur, but it doesn’t remove the need to investigate it properly.
It should be challenged. I would want to know what exactly has been done. The Officer in the Case (OIC) must record their actions, their decisions & the reasoning behind their decisions. This has been the case for years, but at a time when we’re particularly scrutinised, you’d be fool not to record things properly.
As a serving cop I sometimes raise my head above the parapet when I feel fellow Police are being unfairly portrayed or blamed. Likewise, you’ll find that most Police are also fairly sensitive (&quick to judge) when they think “one of their own” is letting the side down. By letting the side down it just causes more negativity, reduces public confidence, causes apathy when it comes to reporting crime or coming forward as witnesses, & undermines the whole justice system by undermining the concept that we Police by consent, consent of the public we serve.
I dont work in the Police so can’t comment directly, but there is only so much you can do in a shift. The lad wasnt harmed physically (although I am sure he has been mentally) nothing was stolen
As a victim of a violent crime the mental aspect was far worse than the physical scars.
It doesn’t have to be within a shift. It’s not an episode of The Bill; It doesn’t need to be investigated & solved within a 1 hour time slot.
Once the initial report (i.e. the initial call) is taken you then start the basics:
Attend the scene
Protect life & property
Identify & arrest the suspect
Obtain witnesses details and initial accounts/evidential statements
CCTV enqs (including dash-cam, ring doorbell etc).
Consider forensic evidence/opportunities
House to house enquiries
Clearly if you have no suspect identified you can’t arrest them, but you should try bloody hard to identify one.
All of this is golden hour or 1st hour stuff that all PCs are trained to perform; you can’t just write the crime off due to lack of resources. You would then move onto the longer aspect of the investigation. Trawling like incidents for like offenders/descriptions; checking intel databases… there’s tons to do, but it’s your job..!!
Police work is all about plate spinning - giving each investigation a little tickle now & then to keep it going. Updating your victim & witnesses, chasing up etc. whilst constantly recording your actions or justification for no action.
Well done Mildred for sticking some facts and first hand experience in to the thread
As for the comment above about this not being a one time thing for offenders. This is the guy that pulled a knife on my son. Not deterred by a short jail sentence. He finally got a long sentence after a crime that amounted to torture.
Which is why any knife crime needs a decent investigation.
I worked the olympics as a sergeant from g.m.p with a serial of my constables .
It was shocking how scruffy,and undisciplined a lot of the met officers were
I seized a bottle of vodka from a lady in Hyde park, took it back to the station to book into property system. The inspector told me in all seriousness , not to book it in , just take it home a drink it !
I booked it in
GMP had its problems at the time, but a we were streets ahead of the met, and I have to say I was proud how my officers performed
Armed robbery or shoplifting? Robbery of POs usually gets a very serious reaction from police, I thought.
It was a cash robbery from the postoffice counter, but not an armed robbery. One of many schemes/distraction thefts which could essentially be bracketed in a fraud/theft category rather than armed robbery (pickpocketing Vs armed robbery), but the outcome is the same. Traumatized staff etc. & the loss of ££ for the buisness (the shop is responsible for reimbursement rather than postoffice insurance).
If I were the op I'd email my local MP about the situation.
One of many schemes/distraction thefts which could essentially be bracketed in a fraud/theft category rather than armed robbery (pickpocketing Vs armed robbery), but the outcome is the same.
This is a common mistake that people make, using the term Robbery in place of theft. Theft is part of a robbery but is missing the outright violence or threat of violence. Because of the lack of violence, irrespective of the degree of upset or amount lost, theft is theft & robbery is robbery. The law is quite pedantic like that, & each offence must cover all of the points to prove (derived from the definition of the offence), otherwise it’s not the offence in question.
Theft is:
“A person is guilty of theft if they dishonestly appropriate the belongings of another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of them”
Whereas Robbery:
"A person is guilty of robbery if the person steals, and immediately before or at the time of doing so, and in order to do so, they use force on any person or puts or seeks to put any person in fear of being then and there subjected to force
In basic terms an assault by battery or otherwise plus a theft.
It’s a violence part that separates it from other forms of acquisitive crime; the more violent the offence, the higher the sentence up to life imprisonment.
It could explain why the police didn’t respond in quite the way you expected??
could explain why the police didn’t respond in quite the way you expected??
They responded in exactly the way I expected - no response, as we know how under resourced our local police are.
We have a very good relationship with a local pco, who always pops in when near. But we have had smaller thefts in the past (not cash or directly from the PO) which had a bigger and better response in the past (3+years ago).
I found it more surprising subsequently having found out through the post office security team that the police know the name and address of the main suspect/s, and have done for a number of months. Yet they are still out there committing the same thefts all over the country. We've a regional what's app group and could track sightings of the suspect around the area over a month or so. Also a quick Google also shows them on CCTV doing the same thing at post offices around the rest of the country, picked up by local press, this even as recently as last week - our theft was about 6 months ago.