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Stop ploughin arms into the region and stop killing innocents
😯 How many of those AKs and RPGs do you think were supplied by Babcocks?
I guess you missed my point, but partly my fault for being so oblique.
I get the point you were trying to make, it was just not very relevant. We all know what the CIA did in afg during the soviet invasion in the 70s. The peple involved now are a different bunch, mainly jihadi war tourists.
jivehoneyjive - MemberSanctions on not only weapons+ammo themselves, but the materials used by the local arms industry will put a significant squeeze on all hostilities and diffuse matters, rather than continuing to aggravate them which is the current (profitable) policy...
You do realise the terrorists are using AK47 and not your western variant.
If it is M16 or British made guns I can understand but those are AK47 and they were/are produced in millions. If you say stop it, will the AK47 stops spraying projectiles to the innocents? How are you going to defend against them? Essentially, you are condemning those without AK47 to death.
🙄
Certainly no easy answers are there.
Especially when a powerful Arab state conduct capital punishment for blasphemy... see rusty post above.
Yet your actual fella... Muhammad.... was far more tolarent.
Unable to observe Islam freely in Mecca, the prophet migrated to Medina. There his first act was to build a mosque, the most sacred structure for a believer. An Arab man entered the mosque and urinated in front of the prophet with no care for the sanctity of the mosque. How did the prophet respond to this deepest of insults to Islam and himself? He cleaned the mosque, stopped Muslims from expelling the man and explained the inviolability of a place of worship.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/07/charlie-hebdo-murderers-cannot-define-islam
But all the while The Onion summed it up a a good while back, in fact shortly after 9/11
http://www.theonion.com/articles/god-angrily-clarifies-dont-kill-rule,222/
Or maim, or torture, or terrify or or or
If only it was as simply as .... Don't
disgusting. have you learnt nothing?
where is the uncensored version.
#GLC
As for restricting the display of religious symbols, all religions are concerned. If a Christian wears Jesus T-shirt to school it's just as unacceptable as Islam symbols.
Do you think not being able to wear certain items of clothes is
1. a restriction on what you do
2. not a restriction
Best of luck working out whether the freedoms have been reduced.
The fact you only restrict ALL religions does not massively counter the claim you restrict religious freedom. it just means you are fair in your unfairness.
What grum said re the viel as you dont even manage that
If it is M16 or British made guns I can understand but those are AK47 and they were/are produced in millions. If you say stop it, will the AK47 stops spraying projectiles to the innocents? How are you going to defend against them? Essentially, you are condemning those without AK47 to death.
Not if bullets are in short supply...
What's the alternative? Drones?
You do realise the terrorists are using AK47 and not your western variant.
Are you sure?
[img] 
:large[/img]
jivehoneyjiveAre you sure?
I dunno what the context of that picture is but an MP5 is a submachine gun. That looks very much like 7.62
Do you think that Heckler and Koch came from saudi? All the pics I saw they were firing longs. Although there are long variants of the MP5, it would be a serious bit of hardware for jihadijean-pierre do be running around with.
HK was british owned for a while, I don't think it is any more. Plausible I suppose, but highly unlikely.
Truth be told, I'm not sure of the context of the pic either, but it pays to inspect all available evidence: some say the fact there is no blood, or sign of impact suggest this is a false flag... horrific though that possibility is, you have to question everything if we are to get to the full truth of the matter:
Ridiculous woo woo nonsense. You'll be telling us that 9/11 was Mossad or the CIA next.some say the fact there is no blood, or sign of impact suggest this is a false flag
@jive at least you are consistent with always having a conspiracy theory. If you shoot someone and they die instantly there is virtually no blood. Blood comes when the heart keeps beating. I can point you in the direction of dozens of ISIS execution videos and you wont see any blood there either.
@grum they extended the law / clarified it to prevent you covering your face as it wasn't captured clearly in the existing legislation. I don't agree with the ban, I think it achieves very little. What's interesting is that the terrorists wife was reported to always wear one in their home town of Reims.
I am surprised at the inference here that France is not supportive of Muslims, they make up 10% of the population and the left wing does much to court their votes. They are one of the countries to recognise Palestine and support their application to the UN and ICC. I think France is one of the most accomodative countries. These terrorists attacked the magazine as they published cartoons and killed Arab policemen as they got in the way.
see what an AK47 does to a watermelon
@grum, your linked piece was interesting, it made the point the Muslim terrorists kill mostly other Muslims.
What time is the judging of the Walter Mitty lookalike comp? Plenty on here who must be in it.
So the biased settler policies, Placement of Catholic statues and the like and the use of the Ilaga, wouldn't upset a population which had been Muslim since the 14th century a little bit?
20 percent of the population have been Muslim since the 14th century, demographics change. I assume you support the state of Israel then, seeing as their right to exist is based on a similar argument.
I seem to remember you don't.
The west killed a huge amount of Taliban, but there they still are. It doesn't matter whether you target the leaders or the follower
Except AQs ability to launch attacks on the UK/US was utterly devastated by the Afghan war, but lets gloss over that shall we.
Re: How do we stop this cycle, It isn't going to be easy but i do believe it would be possible, those that are so far twisted that they are beyond twisting back to rationality will not live forever, what needs to be done is to address and understand what causes the radicalisation of people in the first place, and that may have many threads to it from foreign policy to our own societies at home, if we stop the recruiting then the "generals can't wage a war without an army.
Those that are twisted beyond salvation need to be contained, it may not be a popular thing to do but eventually they will lose support and become a very small bunch of shouty people in the desert with no one listening to them, every air strike/drone attack that causes "collateral damage" just draws more people on the fringe to the centre.
True but then look at ****stan and look at ISIL or Afghanistan
Its hard to argue we defeated terrorism or AQ by waging war against them.
Many European countries have been the victim of a terrorist attack since then and AQ only did one before - on the US now we can add Spain, Holland,Belgium France and the UK x 3 US x about 10 to the list But hey it was not AQ so lets gloss over that. None of the european countries had an Islamic terrorist attack before we waged the war...that has shown them eh
JY. I don't think we were trying to defeat all terrorism, its not really possible. There will always be a new group with some grievance or the other. The attack on the twin towers was as much an attack on Europe as it was the US. Not sure why you say USx10, they've had 9/11 and Boston. the Americans I speak to think their governments responce has been successful in protecting them.
What time is the judging of the Walter Mitty lookalike comp? Plenty on here who must be in it.
You sound well placed to judge it.
I don't think we were trying to defeat all terrorism
Good job as we seem to have created it. Why am I having to explain that this was my point?
The attack on the twin towers was as much an attack on Europe as it was the US
I know just like an attack on Palestine is an attack on the entire Arab community and Muslims everywhere ...convincing argument innit?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamic_terrorist_attacks
wrecker - Member What time is the judging of the Walter Mitty lookalike comp? Plenty on here who must be in it.
You sound well placed to judge it.
Well if I'm judging I've got you in the semi finals 😉
Be careful throwing Walt accusations around. You could end up looking very stupid. Certainly more Walt than the accused.
Yeah you're right I'm sorry 😉
Doing a bit of peacemaking of my own here;
although Junkyard and I have squabbled immensely in the past, I agree with many of the points he has raised in this thread.
Now, back to business; even with the overt operations of our governments, it is hard to gauge just how much of the bloodshed and continued conflict is due to our incursion; add to that the covert tactics of MI6/CIA/Mossad and indeed NATO and the true picture behind any and all modern conflicts becomes extremely blurry (and more than likely dirty)
[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio ]Operation Gladio[/url] certainly set some interesting precedents and like [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone ]Operation Cyclone[/url] (mentioned bit further up in thread) [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat ]Operation Ajax [/url] or [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor ]Operation Condor[/url] it would be very naive to imagine that similar manipulations of global politics by violent means, misplacing the blame were not still being carried out to this day...
True but then look at ****stan and look at ISIL or Afghanistan
Its hard to argue we defeated terrorism or AQ by waging war against them.
Many European countries have been the victim of a terrorist attack since then and AQ only did one before - on the US now we can add Spain, Holland,Belgium France and the UK x 3 US x about 10 to the list But hey it was not AQ so lets gloss over that. None of the european countries had an Islamic terrorist attack before we waged the war...that has shown them eh
Most of those attacks were homegrown but yes, you have a good point here. I sympathise with your point of view Junkyard.
Still, I think that without the Afghanistan war we could have well seen large complicated attacks carried out. Here's the thing, if we destabilise the middle east and keep the nutters locked up fighting us/each other on their own home soil then they are to busy to turn their attentions to shit like liberating the "moorish occupied territories" of Al-Andalus. These are things they will turn their attention to once they take Syria/Iraq/Iran, they are absolutely crazier than most of you care to realise.
They still think they are fighting the wars of 800-1000 years ago, as such we've essentially been dragged into a religious war as old as the crusades. Same shit, different weapons.
They still think they are fighting the wars of 800-1000 years ago, as such we've essentially been dragged into a religious war as old as the crusades.
Hmm... The Knights Templar are apparently the basis for Freemasonry
#jokingnotjoking
These are things they will turn their attention to once they take Syria/Iraq/Iran, they are absolutely crazier than most of you care to realise.
They only actually control a pretty small area don't they? And it seems to be quite chaotic. I'd seriously doubt their ability to create a stable state in the middle east then turn their attention to the west.
Ooh. Hostage taking, gunfights and car chases. It's like a Bruce Willis film.
Following binners' excellent point about it "all being about power and control", where even if the whole world became a "Caliphate" you'd still get different groups fighting each other about who was the most Islamic, I'd like to see the general (media-driven) conversation move past the "they're all terrorists fighting the west" description to this more insightful view.
The question would then become "How do we return the human impulse to exert power and control, to the established systems of governance inside democratic systems?"
Well, hostages taken. Can't see the killers emerging from this intact. Just hope the hostages make it.
Wopster... You've probably seen it, but the point is made excellently in Adam Curtis's the [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares ]Power of Nightmares[/url] about the use of fear for political gain?
Its very applicable in this case. Algeria was a case that was illustrated. Its a dry run of whats happening in Syria now. Hardline Islamic groups tend to be very useful for overthrowing regimes, but once that task is complete, they quickly haemorrhage support from the population, who have little time for such extreme views. At this point they descend into infighting of the 'I'm more Islamic than you' type, as they try and assert themselves as de facto leaders in the emerging power vacuum, and then bring a population to heal with the use of barbaric violence and fear
Looks like we should all be prepared for at least one unavoidable act of destruction.
http://www.cityam.com/206794/mi5-chief-warns-paris-style-attack-britain
Two more dead, 20 injured. JihadiJean-Pierre and his bro holed up in a building.
Won't be long now. Chance of a talk down are slim I reckon, I wouldn't want to be one of the hostages.
Looks like we should all be prepared for at least one unavoidable act of destruction.http://www.cityam.com/206794/mi5-chief-warns-paris-style-attack-britain
Just how much can we trust MI5?
[url= http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5320/mi5-and-mi6-tell-mps-to-censor-key-report-on-lee-rigby-s-killers ]What was the extent of their involvement with Lee Rigby? [/url]
UK security services are well known for collaborations with the US:
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/21/government-agents-directly-involved-us-terror-plots-report?CMP=twt_fd&CMP=SOCxx2I2 ]Government agents directly involved in vast majority of terror plots[/url]
all the more poignant, as there would appear to be much at stake:
[img] 
[/img]
[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio ]All a bit Operation Gladio[/url]
Cheers Jive and I get your conspiracist views and lack of trust for the security services/ the man and I have some sympathy. However you are on 10 and I am on 2
I thought the same re MI5 a mixture of preparing us for somethign and trying to get more power and resources for themselves
I alios think of 1984 and the newspeak need for an enemy to exert control. Once we beat the Russians we did not have one. Now we do have a new bogeyman. In many respects its one we made as Bin Ladden was CIA trained ISIL was created in iraq etc Whether this was design or incompetence i dont know but we have helped create this enemy to our very way of life.
Re TomW I have some sympathy for your view
Neither the approach of "appeasement" nor of "brutally attacking them " will end terrorism/extremism. What they are though is a measure of the content of your character and the content of your heart. We will not beat extremism by being better at it than them and surrendering our core values to the extremists. It may come to some gigantic battle and clash of cultures but we are some distance from this.
Ha ha. Well put.Junkyard - lazarus
Cheers Jive and I get your conspiracist views and lack of trust for the security services/ the man and I have some sympathy. However you are on 10 and I am on 2
The unfortunate paradox with effective counter intelligence and covert military action is that it tends to work best without too much bureaucracy and without endangering sources of intelligence - be that techniques or individuals and agents. As soon as too much is made public, the effectiveness is obviously endangered. As soon as too many people are involved in decisions, it becomes impossible to work on principle and react to development and exploit opportunities.Junkyard - lazarus
I thought the same re MI5 a mixture of preparing us for something and trying to get more power and resources for themselves
Two more dead, 20 injured. JihadiJean-Pierre and his bro holed up in a building.
Not sure that that's correct, French Ministry have said that Reuters report was wrong.
Agree with you there, French armed police don't tend to take prisoners.Chance of a talk down are slim
Sky, as usual, on the button with breaking news:
[url= http://news.sky.com/story/1404756/live-updates-paris-killers-in-stand-off ]Now[/url]
more than 1,000 police descend on a village north of Paris
Bit overkill
Not going to be any survivors from this
@ Digga I agree that the security services are stuck between a rock and a hard place , but, if i was in charge and wanted more money and power* I would go public and say with current resources I cannot protect the country
None of us know which of these it is
* or if i wanted to curtail freedoms or monitor the internet more or get more CCTV etc
Had a tinfoil hat moment last night. If the men who did the original shooting were well trained and disciplined as has been suggested on here, then leaving an id card in the car*, one of them (previuously not a suspect?) handing themselves in to the police and then going publically on the run robbing petrol stations etc be a bit amateurish for them?
Are these the fall guys making a scene while the real baddies get away quietly in the opposite direction?
*classic hollywood method of framing someone
<edit>usual disclaimer, as per usual I haven't been keeping up with all the reports of the event being discussed so could have it all wrong
pics of police men running onto scene on the sky link, bearing in mind camera crews are already there and setup would this be police men numbers 995, 996, 997, 998, 999 and 1000 running on scene? if so, slow down lads, I'll bet running with guns is even more dangerous than with scissors and you're already late to the party.more than 1,000 police descend on a village north of Paris
but, if i was in charge and wanted more money and power* I would go public and say with current resources I cannot protect the country
"Yes, minister"...
Had a tinfoil hat moment last night. If the men who did the original shooting were well trained and disciplined as has been suggested on here, then leaving an id card in the car*, one of them (previuously not a suspect?) handing themselves in to the police and then going publically on the run robbing petrol stations etc be a bit amateurish for them?Are these the fall guys making a scene while the real baddies get away quietly in the opposite direction?
*classic hollywood method of framing someone
Why would you even have ID with you in such a situation, let alone leaving it in the car...
Why would you even have ID with you in such a situation,
In many countries carrying Id with you is a legal requirement
LOL, you would not be in charge very long; that would be political suicide!if i was in charge and wanted more money and power* I would go public and say with current resources I cannot protect the country
I think this indicates that the murderers have been well trained in attack and withdrawal techniques, but haven't covered the necessities of covert operations.
occured to me aswell, but, it's been a while since I was in france but don't remember it being one of those countriesIn many countries carrying Id with you is a legal requirement
In many countries carrying Id with you is a legal requirement
I'm not 100% certain these chaps are concerned about the law, what with murdering innocent people and all.
I'll bet running with guns is even more dangerous than with scissors and you're already late to the party.
That made me smile. Thanks.
Contact has been made with the gunmen brothers, who say they want to "die as martyrs", says Yves Albarello, MP of Seine-et-Marne.
Looks like it'll be a happy ending after all.
glad to be of service 🙂That made me smile. Thanks.
Better if they are captured shirley? Granting them martyrdom doesn't really help, capture them and later show them to be severely misguided fools/monumental bellends (assuming they are the guys wot did it) would be better.Looks like it'll be a happy ending after all.
I reckon these types of characters just didn't get enough cuddles when they were kids
Looks like it'll be a happy ending after all.
I think he was referring to the ejaculatory reaction he and the rest of the STW wargasm crew will have from the news of their deaths.Better if they are captured shirley?
That's a really big building for two people to cover against intruders. I'd be surprised if a special forces team weren't already on the premises...
Orwell's 1984 is the oft-quoted reference manual for fear of rising control and surveillance and I'd love to know what he'd have made of this.Junkyard - lazarus
I agree that the security services are stuck between a rock and a hard place , but, if i was in charge and wanted more money and power* I would go public and say with current resources I cannot protect the countryNone of us know which of these it is
* or if i wanted to curtail freedoms or monitor the internet more or get more CCTV etc
His own political views changed (toward the right) after the Spanish civil war, his involvement in which demonstrated he sided with the view (of Tolstoy and many others) that to be 'good' it is not enough to be blameless, but rather it is also necessary to actively oppose the forces of evil.
I think he was referring to the ejaculatory reaction he and the rest of the STW wargasm crew will have from the news of their deaths.
I really have no preference as to wether they are shot, caught, whatever, as long as they are prevented form killing more people. Actually I was referring to the fact that some people armed with large caliber automatic weapons, surrounded by armed police have publicly stated that they want to die. Given those facts and the additiona that it's a tad tricky to apprehend someone if they are emptying magazines at you, I would have thought that the likely outcome was obvious but thanks for your valuable input....
I reckon these types of characters just didn't get enough cuddles when they were kids
Given the attitude to sex in these ultra-conservative cultures, I'd say the problem is that they haven't been getting any cuddles AT ALL.
Contact has been made with the gunmen brothers, who say they want to "die as martyrs", says Yves Albarello, MP of Seine-et-Marne.
I don't know whether to be happy, sad and equally very concerned by this. I imagine more Police will die. 🙁
Going back to the Madrid bombings they took out a few Police officers didn't they when they detonated the building/bomb they had as the officers approached.
When we discuss Islamic/ist terrorism on this forum things get polarised very quickly. Can I share this quote from Maajid Nawaz (of the Quillam foundation).
Dear Muslims, now is not the time for defensive posturing. Now is not the time for mere condemnation of 'terrorism'. We must go further. No idea, not even our religion, is above scrutiny. This principle is non-negotiable because free speech forms the basis for progress. We Muslims know full well that blasphemy taboos exist within our communities. If we applaud non-Muslims who speak out against racism and anti-Muslim hate, then likewise we Muslims must show solidarity and join wider society to challenge Islamist extremism and reform the blasphemy taboos entrenched among us. Kill blasphemy taboos. Don't kill people. @MaajidNawaz
I think it strikes the balance between the fact that most muslims don't support the killing of innocent people. But on the other hand there are aspects of Islam (blasphemy taboos in particular) which say that the victims in France were not 'innocent'. That provides all the 'just cause' that extremists need.
That really has to change, because at the same time that Muslim nations condemn the crimes in France they are hypocritically jailing and executing their own people for the same (victimless) crime of blasphemy.
Do Christians, or Christian countries regularly denounce stuff like this?
[img] 
[/img]
How about the Jewish faith?
Woppit - you'd think that but the recently court cases for underage Asian gang sex slave rings in the UK has also been happening in France
is that all muslim nations or some muslim nations?That really has to change, because at the same time that Muslim nations condemn the crimes in France they are hypocritically jailing and executing their own people for the same (victimless) crime of blasphemy.
you would not be in charge very long; that would be political suicide
You seem to think i would be running a democracy
adds name to the list
In many countries carrying Id with you is a legal requirement
I'm not 100% certain these chaps are concerned about the law, what with murdering innocent people and all
True can you imagine the checklist
Illegally acquired assault weapons - CHECK
Murderous intent - CHECK
ID - CHECK
I'd love to know what he'd have made of this.
Agree it would be nice
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-30694615 ]This week?[/url]Do Christians, or Christian countries regularly denounce stuff like this?
RM.
is that all muslim nations or some muslim nations?
Most I would guess have some form of legislation on this
Any guesses on when it stopped being illegal here?
2008
It's a legal requirement to carry ID in France, these guys will have been doing it all their life, its a habit. It could have fallen out of a pocket, it could have been left deliberately as a taunting gesture.
The initial operation was clearly well planned and cynically executed. The car crash (running over a pedestrian) may have put them off track, to hold up a garage to steal food cannot have been part of any plan.
Prayers for the hostage, I fear this is going to end in a shoot out which cannot end well.
EDIT: Telegraph newsfeed shows a tank and armoured car arriving
getting a pull for the car having a light out would be rather embarrassing for any would be terrorist - same for a random stop where you dont have id.
the tinfoilhat crew will love it if the suspects are killed.
Truth be told, I'd far prefer none of it had happened in the 1st place,
not only this latest tragedy, but all the way back to wars started by falsified WMD documents, the babies in incubators scam and the coup of Iran by Mi6+CIA.
[img] 
[/img]
back to wars started by falsified WMD documents
That actually went really well. It was the aftermath that saw the americans lose control of the situation.
Probably due to the known unknowns that they knew they didn't know. 🙄
Wiki says 23/49 muslim countries have specific apostasy laws, doesn't say how many use their blasphemy laws to indirectly cover it.
A very interesting piece in Al Monitor today
[url= http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/01/terror-france-charlie-hebdo-israel-islamism-human-rights.html ]Al Monitor[/url]
There are many quotes, here is one;
[i]We have been coping with radical Islam for generations already,” he said. “We are prepared, we are realistic, we understand and know what we are up against. They are not.”
I asked who "they" are. “’They,’ first and foremost, refers to the traditional Arab regimes, but not just them. The Muslim minority in Europe will raise their heads sometime,” he said. “When that happens, I don’t want to be there. All hell will break loose on the Europeans who continue to babble about their human rights and don’t understand that radical Islam lives in another reality, with a different set of rules, on another planet.”[/i]
"Babble", eh?
Nob.
DONK .. whether it all or most or many is not the point (I know freethinkers in Saudi are jailed and lashed and many are killed in ****stan).
The main point I was trying to make is that blasphemy taboos within Islam are a major justification for this type of terrorist activity.
For those who might argue that Islam should not be singled out I offer this from [url= http://www.theonion.com/articles/no-one-murdered-because-of-this-image,29553/ ]The Onion[/url]
Published in 2012 and still no-one dead.
EDIT .. there is something different about Islam in the 21st century. But like most human constructs, it has to change from within.
The way forward is not to hate Muslims, but neither is it to excuse Islam.
Words like "Islamophobia" and blasphemy try to shut down discussion, and that can't be allowed if there is to be a solution.
For those who claim that the actions of western countries are mainly to blame, I offer the words of the french jihadists the other day "God is Great" and "We have avenged the Prophet Muhammad - no mention of drones at all - maybe we should take them at their word.
Anyway:
Military helicopters have been dropping special forces in fields around the village
Here we go.
just checking for clarity was all.whether it all or most or many is not the point
And I agree "blasphemy taboos" are a serious issue.
Police are now officially linking the Charlie Nebdo shooting to the attack in which a policewoman was killed in southwestern Paris yesterday morning.
so that's 3 polices killed by these chaps so far?
jambalaya - MemberA very interesting piece in Al Monitor today
Funny how the (conveniently) anonymous Shin Bet source disagrees with the ex heads of Shin Bet in 'The Gatekeepers' regarding how successful their anti terrorist actions have been.
If i wanted advice on what to do with muslims the last place i would start would by listening to an anonymous Israel who was in the Shin Bet...who wouldn't eh.
Its seems clear Israel and its apologist zionists supporters are willing to forgo the babble of human rights [ not israles mind just everyone elses] and normal standards of decency and law in order [ like not assassinating your enemies onm foreign soil for example] to deal with the issue.
they have not been coping with it they have been creating it with their treatment. I guess that is what happens when you create a state with terrorism , it never knows when to stop.
Still you support them and criticise the nasty terrorists. You are both beyond parody and reason.
Whoppit was way to polite in his response to you
Taken from al monitor. Obviously this guy is a complete racist and abit Rivers of Blood eh Junkyard?:
[i]“On the other hand,” I was told this week by a former Israeli ambassador who has served in numerous positions in Europe, “one day, it has to end. Islam does not acknowledge other religions, and it has a substantial violent nucleus that is not willing to accept the other, his beliefs and lifestyle. The Big Bang will come, sooner or later. I hope, for the Europeans, that it won’t arrive too late, when they’ll be too weak to put up a fight and win the bloody war that awaits them.”[/i]
Junkyard like them or loathe them they have been surrounded on all sides and lived, worked with and fought external and internally their enemies.
A regular round of bus bombings like Israel suffered for years may soon change (and harden) our own perspective too.
Jambalaya - have you seen this report from our Saudi 'friends'
[url= http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/08/saudi_arabia_flog_man_facebook/ ]A man who supports feminism and is an atheist and used Facebook[/url]