[Closed] "Muslim" terrorists attack French magazine in Paris

You crack me up on these threads jambalaya. Spectacularly missing points and avoiding awkward questions. Anyway, do you believe Israel creates conditions which foment terrorism? Or do Palestinians just not like Jews? Is it purely a religion thing?

The terrorists exist and they would do so independent of Israels actions. The West tried to appease Hitler and it didn't work out. What you see on the streets of Paris yesterday is exactly what Israel is dealing with on a daily basis.

you think I avoid issues

😀

It's not [i]just[/i] me is it?

hmm do you think the french will try the israeli tactic of cramming all the muslims into a giant concentration camp, put big walls around them, restrict their food, power, sanitation etc?

Another useless thread with the usual suspects spouting rubbish like stuck records to demonstrate their impeccable 6th form activist credentials. You'd all bend over backwards to take it from anyone, as long as it justified your comfortable contrary views. Sanctimonious, solipsistic, infantile idiots.

Another useless thread...

@kimber - you forgot to mention the Egyptians, their closure of the Raffa broder crossing is far more significant and has a far greater impact on Gazans than the Israeli border crossing. The Eyptians have demolished all houses within a few hunderd meters of the border and done all they can to destroy the smuggling tunnels. Gazan shops are full of food shipped in from Israel

@bainbrge - its a debate, a lively and at times hostile one but its a debate. If you don't want to read it follow another thread.

It always interests me all the mud slinging, the fact is the governments of the UK (Labour, Coalition), US etc agree with me. An inconvenient truth for some here I suspect.

jambalaya - Member
Quite surprised you think I avoid issues.

An inconvenient truth for some here I suspect

Thanks for your contribution bainbrge - you really turned things around.

Quite surprised you think I avoid issues, I comment very openly and directly.

You've completely ignored several direct questions I've asked you - not only in this thread but in several others.

[b][u]I'll ask you again jambalaya[/u][/b], is terrorism wrong full-stop, or does it depend on the circumstances/who's doing it? Was the terrorism which helped found the state of Israel justifiable, and is it ok to laud those who committed those acts as heroes?

Don't take it personally. It's a hackneyed debate tactic, usually deployed by people who are, in fact, doing the same themselves.

It's not really a hackneyed debate tactic to ask someone to answer a simple question which they won't because it reveals their own staggering hypocrisy. And what questions/issues are you suggesting that Darcy or I are avoiding?

Good thread so far, lots of differing views, I find myself agreeing with totally contradictory ones. I haven't seen any divine intervention from the mods despite calls to make people "disappear", no bans I'm aware of, this freedom of speech thing has a lot going for it.

I suppose that arguing for deportation of someone who's ancestry comes from a different country might be analogous to deporting me to Denmark if I committed a crime (blowing up a random mosque, say) because the original "Woppit" came over in the 5th century with Hengist and Horsa and settled in the midlands.

You could argue that a born national (of whatever lineage) is a country's own problem to deal with, but you could also argue that the deportation to a country who's culture is more aligned with their own silly views (Saudi Arabia, let's say, or "IS") should be welcomed by the deportees.

However, the terrorists don't want to necessarily live in a country like that, they want to make YOUR country like that so that they can live in it.

As Chris Hitchens once said - (I may be paraphrasing here) - "You'd think religious people would simply be happy with their religion and just get on with it but no, they won't be happy until YOU believe as well..."

Its all about power and control Wopster. They don't really care if you believe or not, as long as you're subservient to 'it' and the rules that they then attach to 'it'

Thats why when they finally get their belloved Sharia Caliphate, they then all furiously set about a deadly game of 'I'm more Islamic than you'. With predictable results. Its like a not-even-remotely-funny version of the Life of Brian

thats the pyramid selling bit of it.

Predictable response from Pegida [url= http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/08/paris-attack-german-anti-immigrant-islamist-threat ]link[/url]

Shocking survey result;

[i]A survey published on Thursday but conducted in November, before widespread coverage of Pegida, showed that 61% of Germans believed Islam had no place in the West.[/i]

Definitely not avoiding any questions/issues then jambalaya? 😆

So we can assume that you do think sometimes terrorism is ok, but only when it's the good guys doing it.

grum

Definitely not avoiding any questions/issues then jambalaya?

He's trolling the **** out of you Grum. Give up.

It's a hackneyed debate tactic, usually deployed by people who are, in fact, doing the same themselves.

or if you prefer

It's not really a hackneyed debate tactic to ask someone to answer a simple question which they won't because it reveals their own staggering hypocrisy

Putting it bluntly if iran and israel did exactly the same thing Jambalaya would call one terrorists and then tell us how the other was both legal and the victims fault....see bombing of UN schools for an example

See if he answer directly about the formation of israel as well

Head of MI5 speaking later today,

It is too early for us to come to judgments about the precise details or origins of the attack but it is a terrible reminder of the intentions of those who wish us harm.

difference between understanding the causes and "think its ok"
your insistence that all violent action is terrorism makes your statement impossible to [s]answer[/s] respond to - but you already know that.

@ binners

I think you've made a massive point, there.

I agree.

difference between understanding the causes and "think its ok"
your insistence that all violent action is terrorism makes your statement impossible to answer respond to - but you already know that.

You can debate my definition of terrorism if you like - but you can't debate that the Lehi gang were terrorists under any definition.

jimjam - you may well be right but I think he might genuinely believe his own hypocritical BS.

@ binners

I think you've made a massive point, there.

... and I think the squabbling kids clustered around our discussion should stop for a minute and think about it.

14.27 Two armed men have been reportedly spotted in the woods outside Villers-Cotterets.

Our photographer Heathcliffe O'Malley, who is on the N2 outside of Paris, near the village of Longpont, has just spoken to a man who was warned to leave a local restaurant "because the police were coming".

The restaurant owner said that he had been told "two armed men are in the woods".

Police are gathering in what looks like a farmhouse, outside the village.

[qoute]Its all about power and control Wopster. They don't really care if you believe or not, as long as you're subservient to 'it' and the rules that they then attach to 'it'
Well of course. That's precisely what religion was used for in "the West" for centuries. it's nothing to do with belief, it's to do with idealism and control.

The terrorists exist and they would do so independent of Israels actions.

Nothing could be further from the truth. If Israel didn't behave the way it did, terrorist organisations wouldn't get volunteers to stuff envelopes, let alone kill people. It is precisely the hopelessness of a struggle against Israel and its US client that makes people turn to the promise of fulfilment in the afterlife via a bearded imaginary friend.

even two cops down, the gendarmes will realise that the world is watching closely, from both sides.

so i will go for dragged kicking/screaming

would anyone be surprised if they died in custody tho'

your insistence that all violent action is terrorism

So, help us out - define "terrorism". You can illustrate your answer by reference to Nelson Mandela, the Nicaraguan Contras, LEHI and the Stern Gang, the French Resistance, IRA, US War of Independence, etc etc etc

hels - Member
Has the chewkw character been written out of this thread already ?

Someone got to work for a living you know ... 🙄
Written out of this thread? Nahhh ... just don't have the time to response.
So what's up? What's your argument or as they say what's your beef? 😆

squirrelking - Member
If you ignore him he goes away like most lunatics.

Like most zombie maggots he (squirrelking) is exactly like my communist grandfather who could only see one dimension. However, this zombie moggot(squirrelking) has the tendency to blame the politician and constantly try to score points even when event happened in other places. He hates anything and everything resembling centre right to right because to him they are all enemies. If he is in the army he would gladly shoot his own in the back. What he does not realise is he and the extreme right are merely the different side of the same coin. They cannot live without each other. They could be husband and husband. 🙄

Back to the thread, anyone mentioned the Southern Philippines? Go there get your head off perhaps? Whatever you think that the South is doing right then you are wrong. They have tried to annex us since the late 60s and local politicians are leeching the whole place dry in preparation for eventual annexation. If you sympathies with the rebels then you are condemning the entire natives of N. Borneo to demise. I on the other hand is already in GeordieLand but I fear for the natives there.

Also the so called Ghandi's "an eye for an eye thing ..." FFS! Sometimes you just have to eradicate the whole problem no matter how long it takes once and for all. Yes, both sides will have losses but isn't zombie maggots in this world suppose to do so? Otherwise, the world will be too populated? Even if the world population depletes by half it will regenerate in no time.

As for the AK47 I hope they are permanently confined "Papillon" style system in total isolation.

🙄

wrecker

What do we reckon, will they be zipped up and carried out or dragged out?
Considering they zapped two coppers, I'm going with the zip and carry option.

They'll just disappear them. Apparently disappearing Islamic fundamentalists is the key to eradicating them.

even two cops down, the gendarmes will realise that the world is watching closely, from both sides.

so i will go for dragged kicking/screaming

would anyone be surprised if they died in custody tho'

They'll just disappear them. Apparently disappearing Islamic fundamentalists is the key to eradicating them.

it really doesn't matter what started the fire, the really important thing is to put it out!

hmm do you think the french will try the israeli tactic of cramming all the muslims into a giant concentration camp, put big walls around them, restrict their food, power, sanitation etc?

[i]I haven't seen any divine intervention from the mods[/i]

they work in mysterious ways that aren't always immediately obvious.

jimjam - Member
They'll just disappear them. Apparently disappearing Islamic fundamentalists is the key to eradicating them.

Don't care what they do to them but torturing would be good ...

😀

Couldn't think of a way to respond to that, given that it's chewkw. Advocating torture. I very nearly....

Um, no. Not yet. Not quite. Let's see how much rope gets used.

Couldn't think of a way to respond to that, given that it's chewkw

The same way you would to any other pantomime dame?

Good thread so far, lots of differing views,

this freedom of speech thing has a lot going for it.

Bravo to that.

I don't have the time or the intellect to get into an online debate with you lot , but many interesting & thought provoking comments on here .It's even sparked debate in our work tearoom - mistake - they are all now definitely voting ukip. 🙂

back to the op. I hope the fascist cowards responsible for the attack don't get the martyrdom that they think's coming to them....

Mr Woppit - Member

Couldn't think of a way to respond to that, given that it's chewkw. Advocating torture. I very nearly....

Um, no. Not yet. Not quite. Let's see how much rope gets used.

Well, it's an alternative to all your suggestion and I am just pointing out to one option amongst many.

What's yours then? What would you do to the AK47 shooters?

lemonysam - Member
The same way you would to any other pantomime dame?

Drama queen ^^^ ... 😆

I hope the fascist cowards responsible for the attack don't get the martyrdom that they think's coming to them.

Problem is, this outcome is unlikely when two fruit loops armed with AK-47s are slowly backed into a corner.

Like you know a fraction of things these types get up to....

You are right. We only get to see the trivial stuff like guantanamo bay and reports on water boarding and the like.

You can have as many "special forces" or Drones or whatever, the problem has not only not gone away, its got worse.

They'll just disappear them. Apparently disappearing Islamic fundamentalists is the key to eradicating them.

I don't know, however many you kill thinking this is the way to eradicate them, they have god on their side, and a belief they will get to heaven, either when they are killed, or take part in a suicide bombing. Its a powerful thing belief, so good luck in trying to kill them, because there will be more to replace them.

 

What's yours then? What would you do to the AK47 shooters?

I refer you to my answer already given on page 2.

Or we could just engage in a list of hysterical gibberish about AK47's and sticking things under toenails...

[img] [/img]

You are right. We only get to see the trivial stuff like guantanamo bay and reports on water boarding and the like.

Mr Woppit - Member

What's yours then? What would you do to the AK47 shooters?

I refer you to my answer already given on page 2.

Or we could just engage in a list of hysterical gibberish about AK47's and sticking things under toenails...

Ahhh ... I see (page 2) ... but you have no god on your side. They have.

For these condemn people I think some of their organs should be harvested before they are damaged. Scientifically this makes sense.

However, so long as I don't have to feed them (via tax etc) I am fine. I rather have my tax paid to help shelter animals or good people in need of financial help. Definition: Good people = Not Zombie Maggots.

Oh well. I did try.

Anybody? 🙄

Oh ya ... these two AK47 shooters will now, if they plan it right, draw as many law enforcement agents as close to them as possible before they detonate a huge suicide belt on them. Your human court has no field day I am afraid.

Thus, meeting their "maker" while taking many with them ...

When they reach their destination where they expect virgins ... these shooters will be the virgins themselves to be savage by whoever are waiting for them on the other side. 😆 They ARE the virgins.

Nothing to do with US or UK SF. Mossad are a different kettle of fish admittedly. My point is that none of us here can say if these guys are effective or not as we have no clue what they get up to. All I know is that they are very, very busy.

They aren't. Israel targets and kills the leadership of hezbollah, Some commanders of IS have been targeted by the US...and on and on. They just get replaced.

Bin laden is killed, makes no difference. In fact the only thing that seems to be killing Al Qaeda is IS. Their message is being drowned out by a plethora of other terrorist organisations.

The west killed a huge amount of Taliban, but there they still are. It doesn't matter whether you target the leaders or the followers.

You need to Kill the message, not the people.

Anybody?

All yours Woppit.

El-bent - Member

Bin laden is killed, makes no difference. In fact the only thing that seems to be killing Al Qaeda is IS. Their message is being drowned out by a plethora of other terrorist organisations.

Pui ! Pui ! Pui ! What new is there?

Look at the event in communist China during the Cultural Revolution ...

Dear Leader Mao could only survive because he adopted the more extreme version of communism. He could have been toppled had he not adopt the extreme version. As a result, people follow the extreme version and 26 million of them perished.

In this case Al-Queda was replaced by a more extreme version of their own belief system. i.e. "I am purer than you" sort of ideology ...

Obviously, now you are saying perhaps Al-Queda can be negotiated with.

🙄

Saw this linked to on Vice News today. Created by a Somali in Minnesota in response to Jihadist recruiting there. Interesting.

[url= http://www.averagemohamed.com/ ]Average Mohamed[/url]

They aren't.

You need to Kill the message, not the people.

wrecker - Member
And how do you propose they do that?

Ya, how? 😀

They certainly are, so long as they are fed accurate intelligence.

Right. Here's a little snippet from my previous post you don't seem to understand.

They just get replaced.

Obviously, now you are saying perhaps Al-Queda can be negotiated with.

I think you have been drinking too much Newcastle Brown ale...

Would incidents like this be a factor?

[img] [/img]

You need to Kill the message, not the people.

Burn some Quran's maybe?

I don't think it's the responsibility of any "Black Ops" military to get involved in killing the message. That's much too sensible. They're too busy trying to chop the heads off the Hydra.

The message will be killed by it's opponents engaging in the debate - something made possible by the old "Free Speech" thingy.

Like Average Mohamed and his videos, for instance.

Meanwhile in Saudi Arabia, Raif Badawi will tomorrow receive the first public flogging of his sentence of 1000 lashes for 'insulting Mohammed'. 50 lashes a day followed by 10 years in prison. Good old 'religion of peace' 😥
[url= http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/saudi-arabia-activist-raif-badawis-1000-lashes-public-flogging-commence-after-friday-prayers-1482540 ]http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/saudi-arabia-activist-raif-badawis-1000-lashes-public-flogging-commence-after-friday-prayers-1482540[/url]

They just get replaced.

El-bent - Member
I think you have been drinking too much Newcastle Brown ale...

What's your solution then?

(A little bird told just whispered to me that the following suggestions will appear - re-education, have a public discussion, respect them, sit down and negotiate with their "leaders" or worst case scenario let them be ... 😯 )

Meanwhile in Saudi Arabia, Raif Badawi will tomorrow receive the first public flogging of his sentence of 1000 lashes for 'insulting Mohammed'. 50 lashes a day followed by 10 years in prison.

Is that the same Saudi Arabia who is the UK's no.1 customer for the arms trade?

The Arms Trade that Prince Andrew encourages?

Perhaps it's the same Saudi Arabia that has the 2nd largest stake in Newscorp after the Murdoch Family?

Something a bit smelly in all of this...

Suspects robbed a petrol station (and apparently heading back towards Paris), I assume they will cut off each others hands for that.

Jenuine lol at that 😉

Also great contribution from Jivehoneyjive - lolled at that too!

Thing is - we can have alively debate on here - but you can't debate with a fanatic I'm afraid, fanatics don't have a sense of humour!!!

Anyway - I'm going to bake a cake - !!! 😀

I've noticed that despite many threats of massive attacks against "The West" over the past few years by this shouty idiot, nothing actually seems to have happened... Something effective must be going on.

[img] [/img]

Mr Woppit - Member

I've noticed that despite many threats of massive attacks against "The West" over the past few years by this shouty idiot, nothing actually seems to have happened... Something effective must be going on.

It will happen when you least expect them to. It will happen. Just a matter of time.

🙄

edit: that picture ... he got a nice gun and I think that is an AK47 with grande launcher or a torchlight.

And how do you propose they do that?

How long have you got? Its going to take a lot longer than a quick fix solution of shooting/bombing them.

Here's your starter for ten:

Is that the same Saudi Arabia who is the UK's no.1 customer for the arms trade?

It starts with our attitudes and interests.

The message will be killed by it's opponents engaging in the debate - something made possible by the old "Free Speech" thingy.

The message won't be killed off by magazines posting inflammatory material in the quest for free speech. We have to be a hell of a lot more subtle than that.

El-bent - Member
How long have you got? Its going to take a lot longer than a quick fix solution of shooting/bombing them.

In the meantime, they continue to expand while you decide on the next course of action or plan.

Here's your starter for ten:

Is that the same Saudi Arabia who is the UK's no.1 customer for the arms trade?

It starts with our attitudes and interests.

Arms trade don't kill, people do.

Assuming you don't sell to S.Arabia does that mean their expanding ideology will cease? Bear in mind, they are a branch, albeit the newest, of Abrahamic faith and like the belief of your forefather is based on expansionism. Do you think they will stop?

What you say?

🙄

It's all a bit chicken and egg:

arms trade can't survive without conflict

conflict can't survive without arms trade

Hmm, wonder what would happen if sanctions on arms trade were in place...

(apart from a lot of grumpy faces in Carlyle Group, Halliburton and all the contractors orbiting the industry which by some coincidence generally benefit those who started the wars in the 1st place)

As I was saying...

[url= http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/this-is-what-jon-stewart-has-to-say-about-the-charlie-hebdo-massacre--g1U9zLZYqe ]Keep calm and carry on[/url]

It starts with our attitudes and interests.

So many PhDs on STW yet none can come up with viable answers. 🙄

You lot sucks! You have not applied your positivist mindset consistently.

Highly illogical in the so called "logical" mind ... 😆

Mr Woppit - Member

As I was saying...

Keep calm and carry on

Now you are referring to media as your answer?

C'mon you can do better than that. 😯

Pretty much the only intelligent thing I've read about this:

http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/blowback-paris-1534074535

Interesting point here too:

Why should freedom of speech not apply to their freedom to merely practice and express their religious faith? It is here, in the powerlessness to challenge the encroachment on religious freedoms under the French brand of secularism, fuelled by the grievances about ongoing wars in the Muslim world, that vulnerability to radicalisation begins. If we uphold the freedom of speech of Charlie Hebdo to mock religion, and we must, should we not question the withdrawal of this elementary right to France’s Muslims?

Guns don't kill people....

al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb ([b]AQIM[/b])

Is that the same Saudi Arabia who is the UK's no.1 customer for the arms trade?
The Arms Trade that Prince Andrew encourages?

*[i]Always women for some reason, never men.[/i]

France's Muslims enjoy the same freedom of speech as all French citizens, which has limits. Saying some things is illegal. Making a plausible threat to kill someone for example.

As for restricting the display of religious symbols, all religions are concerned. If a Christian wears Jesus T-shirt to school it's just as unacceptable as Islam symbols.

binners - Member

Guns don't kill people....

As for restricting the display of religious symbols, all religions are concerned. If a Christian wears Jesus T-shirt to school it's just as unacceptable as Islam symbols.

What drivel. They introduced a special law in 2010 specifically banning face-covering garments which was quite clearly targeted at the niqab.

wrecker

Do you think old angry Akhbar in a cave in afghanistan gives a * if we sell hardware to SA?

Is that angry old Akhbar who we funded and trained to fight the Russians, with the promise that we would help to build a democratic country for him if he succeeded, and who we subsequently abandoned? That angry old Akhbar?
He might give a f. Yes he might.

Do you think old angry Akhbar in a cave in afghanistan gives a **** if we sell hardware to SA?

This is but one example of how the CIA (and MI6) in collaboration with among others Saudi Arabia funded, armed and trained the mujahadeen under [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone ]Operation Cyclone[/url]:

These same fighters went on to become Al Qaeda, [url= http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/jul/08/july7.development ]according to Robin Cooke, itself a Western construct[/url]:

Bin Laden (Tim Osman?) was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians. Inexplicably, and with disastrous consequences, it never appears to have occurred to Washington that once Russia was out of the way, Bin Laden's organisation would turn its attention to the west.

From the video, you will note how Obama himself is quite well acquainted with Brzezinski all these years later:

Big names in covert strategies such as Zbigniew Brzezinski and Henry Kissinger are hugely influential on global history, with bodies such as the Trilateral Commission and the Council on Foreign Relations planning strategies over decades, rather than the short terms given to the democratically elected governments.

It would be very naive to imagine similar covert operations are not continuing to this day...

jivehoneyjive - Member

C'mon! C'mon! Those are old news everyone knows that ... that's done. The man is dead. Move on.

Now the can of worms (now evolved into zombie maggots) is opened how do you deal with them before they become hornets to sting you?

🙄

Is that angry old Akhbar who we funded and trained to fight the Russians

I guess you missed my point, but partly my fault for being so oblique.

Most AQ are far removed from the old muj and are mainly not even afghans, the locals call them "the foreigners".

What does that suggest...

It would be very naive to imagine similar covert operations are not continuing to this day...

And Al Quaeda does not mean "the database", it means Foundation or base. Cooks talking out of his arse.

Now the can of worms (now evolved into zombie maggots) is opened how do you deal with them before they become hornets to sting you?

Stop ploughing arms into the region and stop killing/wounding innocents

[img] [/img]
/p>

Sanctions on not only weapons+ammo themselves, but the materials used by the local arms industry will put a significant squeeze on all hostilities and diffuse matters, rather than continuing to aggravate them which is the current (profitable) policy...

Hmm, wonder what would happen if sanctions on arms trade were in place...

(apart from a lot of grumpy faces in Carlyle Group, Halliburton and all the contractors orbiting the industry which by some coincidence generally benefit those who started the wars in the 1st place)