[Closed] "Muslim" terrorists attack French magazine in Paris

Perhaps we should reconsider our time-honoured way of ensuring failure?

Well, I suppose we should consider our concept of failure first shouldn't we? Creating failed states means we get re-building contracts, sell lots of arms and the private military make a fortune providing close protection & security. That's just for starters...

@deadlarcy, I think the age old factors of power and control are major elements in fermenting terrorism. ISIS has recruited large numbers of people by paying them well and promising them a "glamourous" life/eternal life

Like the US funds Israel that sort of thing?
They execute [ literally] state sponsored assassinations by MOSAD on foreign soil. What would Jam say if Iran did this and will you condemn Israel as vociferously for this terrorism?

I am going for you ignore it or just tell me how bad somewhere else is and how some Muslim group are worse

The Israeli's are used to dealing with terrorists, either at home in Israel or abroad. The US use drones, the Israeli's use agents on the ground. Iran does exactly as you suggest, sending fighters to Syria and missiles to Gaza. Basically it's a war and one which is fought in various locations.

- I don't think it's possible to make any assumptions under that kind of situation.

Isn't 'making an assumption' exactly what you did when you said they were 'bound' to use racial stereotypes Ben?

@deadlydarcy

I was thinking of the level of crime (including terrorist incidents) and stuffed prisons that we have, not the GDP.

@Woppit, fairy nuff. Apologies for misunderstanding.

Suspects allegedly seen on French motorway North of Paris.

Slightly surreal but after they ran over a pedestrian yesterday they where forced to change cars. Forced an old guy out of his car who refused to let them drive off until he had got his dog out of the back seats.

has recruited large numbers of people by paying them well and promising them a "glamourous" life/eternal life

So no mention of an enemy then?

So you did both.

So when Israel kills a terrorists its " war" but if these people respond its not "war" but " terrorism". Is Iran at "war" then when Israel wages "war" against it or on its soil or is it still state sponsored terrorism when they do the same thing as the Israelis?
A very principled stance you have there Jam , very principled indeed.

So in essence you wont condemn Israel for doing it ...who could have guessed

Just ban religion full stop.

The French taxi driver interviewed last night said it should be about faith and not religion. I liked where he was coming from.

if Israel kills a terrorists its " war" but if these people respond its not "war" but " terrorism"....makes sense to me.

Perfect sense

The deliberate targeting of and killing of enemy combatants or facilities, even if in the process you inadvertently cause civilian casualties is a legal and justifiable act of war

The deliberate targeting of and killing of civilians who are not directly connected to the enemy war effort would not be.

I think it's us in the West that write those rules. Which allows people to spout that kind of hogwash.

but why let definitions get in the way of ill informed argument.

@Woppit Taking Norway example, they may have a liberal prison system, but they have a non nonsense approach to deportation and also a clear problem with radical Muslims - some of whom are purportedly key ISIS members - a record number of deportations in 2014:

http://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2014/01/29/norway-deports-record-number-of-muslims-to-reduce-crime/

http://dailycaller.com/2014/09/04/norways-islamic-extremism-problem/

With all the talk of Freedom of Speech, [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin%C3%A9 ]this[/url] is interesting:

His article and cartoons in the magazine Charlie Hebdo relating to Jean Sarkozy's marriage to Jessica Sebaoun-Darty, the Jewish heiress, touched off a controversy, after journalist Claude Askolovitch described them as anti-Semitic.[3] The magazine's editor, Phillipe Val, ordered Siné to write a letter of apology or face termination. The cartoonist said he would rather "cut his own balls off", and was promptly fired.[4] Both sides subsequently filed lawsuits, and in December 2010, Siné won a 40,000-euro court judgment against his former publisher for wrongful termination.[5]

[b]Maurice Sinet also reported a death threat posted on a site run by the Jewish Defence League. The text said "20 centimeters of stainless steel in the gut, that should teach the bastard to stop and think[/b]".

"20 centimeters of stainless steel in the gut, that should teach the bastard to stop and think".

Proctoscopies can often yield worrying results.

Its pretty handy that when we, our our "friends" do it is ok and justifiable but when those "pariah" states do the same thing its terrorism
I am sure this type of thinking/arguing/acting in no way fuels contempt or hatred for the west.

We have principles [ hypocrisy and expediency apparently].

Islam has a problem with extremism but lets not pretend we dont do certain things that makes it easer for their recruitment drive.

I think it's us in the West that write those rules.

Its pretty handy that when we, our our "friends" do it is ok and justifiable but when those "pariah" states do the same thing its terrorism

Geneva convention is far from just a western agreement, the vast majority of Middle Eastern countries are signed up to it.

@ digga

A ha. Deportation of foreign citizens as a punishment.

Seems like a good idea, especially as they apparently don't want to live with "filthy beasts" like us, so winwin then.

so digga norway has a muslim problem but has only ever had a right wing terrorist attack on their soil

First link show Nigerians are the biggest deportees and they are not Muslimms

Second link [ after many clikcs in] eventually shows one person

Norwegian security authorities confirm that two Norwegians have commanding positions in the terrorist organisation Islamic State (IS).

One of the Norwegians is Bastian Vasquez from Skien, a municipality in Telemark County. Vasquez appeared in an IS propaganda video earlier this year. The other one is a Norwegian of African descent who lived in Bærum just outside of Oslo, before he traveled to Syria in December 2012.

The Muslim Issue consists of a group of international (many non-English speaking) human rights volunteers who aim to educate the world of the realities of Islam. Islam is a dangerous and totalitarian fascist ideology and a greater threat to the West than Nazism. The extreme violence that is common norm and thread in Muslim culture is now freely allowed to immigrate all across the world, putting everyone’s life and future into danger.

They did not bother to break the numbers down nor show their working nor the crimes

Ninfan it is possible, though not credible and sophist, to argue that illegal enemy combatants and the "collateral damage" of killing folk on foreign soil is perfectly fine and all legal and nice but what they do is wrong.
Neither is morally justifiable and it requires western lawyers twisting and turning like your arguments to "justify " it

If Iran did this we would not consider it legal nor the actions of a member of the international community.

I am sure you can try but I have done scribbling with you.

We're tying ourselves up in ridiculous knots by even debating.

Have a look at this:

I think in the case of France, the deportation idea could be an at least partial solution, especially if the situation escalates.

Why do we have jihadism in Western Europe? Why is there little or negligible jihadism in, say Eastern Europe or,

So places Russia, China and the Philippines don't have issues with Muslim terrorism? It's just western Europe and the USA?

Political Islam is the cause, wherever you have a sizable Muslim minority (Mindanao is still a Muslim minority accounting for 20 percent of the population), one seems to find terrorism and separatism. They are never happy living in a country run by another religious group and given the chance they always seem to resort to separatism.

Tom_W1987 - Member
So places Russia, China and the Philippines don't have issues with Muslim terrorism? It's just western Europe and the USA?

To get an idea of the scale of the extremist delusion, you need to understand the mindset; of those who want Sharia watch here from 40 seconds "democracy and freedom are no good":

Quick lets change the subject as my links dont prove what i said they did

FTFY

the only person being tied in knots is you

Not sure what the point of that is the research yesterday showed that 97% opposed the Danish cartoons.
It is offensive to Muslims. We can discuss whether it is ok to offend them or not but it seems pointless debating whether Muslims find ANY DRAWING of the prophet offensive
It does not even matter what the cartoon is it is drawing his image that is wrong in their eyes.
you may as well ask if they believe in the prophet or if Catholics believe in the Pope

Not seeign what the point of that link was beyond distraction

Junkyard - lazarus
Quick lets change the subject as my links dont prove what i said they did

Yes, I think someone needs to read up on Chechnya and the Russians for just one example.

What, the Russians did what we in the west have been doing all this time, and have received the same consequences as the West has.

If you go looking for trouble...

I think in the case of France, the deportation idea could be an at least partial solution, especially if the situation escalates.

Meanwhile, I think the deperados may be on their way back inro Paris for a last stand.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30721677

That's what I say when i realise I cannot defend my own views and were you not lecturing us about ad hom attacks.
#pigeonchess

Still dont let any of this make you reflect on your views.

@ slowoldman

Well, in this case, I understand that the suspects are from Algeria?

What, the Russians did what we in the west have been doing all this time, and have received the same consequences as the West has.
If you go looking for trouble..

The Philippines certainly never went looking for trouble, Mindanao is rightfully theirs even if they capitulated and gave them an autonomous region.

@Mr Woppit I read "Algerian-origin French citizens resident in Paris".

Has the chewkw character been written out of this thread already ? I was quite enjoying him, reminds me of that guy who use to post on here who thought the Royal Mail were evil agents of the Lizard King, if he had been playing LOTS of World of Warcraft.

Hopefully he will come up with some more ridiculous nonsense to entertain us, before the inevitable dropping out of character and quoting directly from the BNP manifesto.

(with apologies for making light of a sad subject, but you really can't take people like that seriously, it just gives them validation)

First link show Nigerians are the biggest deportees and they are not Muslimms

JY you really are the typical gobby sixth former.

where would they deport French citizens to?

Other departments of France that have no land borders with the rest of France?

Good luck plotting a terrorist attack on the west from Guadeloupe!

(Ps. I'm sure that some of Britains more vocal problem carachters would enjoy their new lives on isolated islets off of West Falkland too!)

So are people really saying that the west deserves this kind of thing then? Because of a few [i]cartoons[/i]?
😐

Hmm 'disappearing'. Yeah that worked in Chile, Indonesia, Romania, East Germany... Of course using 'our boys' in 'The Regiment' as a means of removing these undesirables is completely different to the nasty secret police used in those cases.

As said, where do you deport your own citizens to? Stupid statement further reinforcing the ignorant belief that immigrunts isn't us.

As said before, maybe if we addressed the issues that lead to a disaffected youth searching for an outlet that makes them [i]feel[/i] empowered then they might not be so prevalent. Give them a suitable outlet, enfranchise them but not at the exclusion of others in the same position. Perhaps if we had a more socially inclusive society we wouldn't be in such a mess (by that I mean the ever increasing social exclusion the bottom of our society is facing).

Banning religions and whatever has never and will never work. You can ban a practice but an idea will always endure. If that's the kind of society we ended up in then frankly it's not one I would want to be a part of. The step from there to another [i]Kristallnacht[/i] when the first measure inevitably provide a recruiting platform isn't that great IMO

The Philippines certainly never went looking for trouble, Mindanao is rightfully theirs even if they capitulated and gave them an autonomous region.

I think you need to read up on your history, It has striking similarities to the West, Russia, and the UK in Ireland.

Has the chewkw character been written out of this thread already ?

If you ignore him he goes away like most lunatics.

@ wrecker I dont think anyone is saying that
How can anyone defend what they did ? No matter how much someones views/cartoons pahmphlets annoy you cannot kill them, even if they use Comic Sans.
I have not seen anyone on here defend the terrorists or their actions
I am sure some will be saying that somewhere just like some will be saying kill all Muslims

[img] [/img]

No they're condoning it because we play geopolitics with the arab world, like we do with the rest of the world but have never been bombed by Cuban/Russian/Indian/Chinese/Kenyan terrorists.

I think you need to read up on your history, It has striking similarities to the West, Russia, and the UK in Ireland

It really doesn't, Muslims wanting an autonomous region in Mindanao is like Bradford or Leicester demanding a separate state.

Suspects robbed a petrol station (and apparently heading back towards Paris), I assume they will cut off each others hands for that.

I dont think anyone is saying that

I have not seen anyone on here defend the terrorists or their actions
I am sure some will be saying that somewhere just like some will be saying kill all Muslims

There's a storm brewing.

Quite possibly

They may have made folk scared to print cartoons of the prophet but they have not helped their Muslims brothers one bit.

Well they can all look forward to the hard right gaining traction across europe. Well done dickheads.

They may have made folk scared to print cartoons of the prophet but they have not helped their Muslims brothers one bit.

They don't care about other Muslims. If they aren't with them, they are the enemy as well. Its going well so far, with so many people unable to differentiate Islamic terrorists from other Muslims, it won't bee long before a few more moderates become extremists.

It really doesn't, Muslims wanting an autonomous region in Mindanao is like Bradford or Leicester demanding a separate state.

So the biased settler policies, Placement of Catholic statues and the like and the use of the Ilaga, wouldn't upset a population which had been Muslim since the 14th century a little bit?

So no mention of an enemy then?

@JY MOSAD, SAS, US Special Forces - I support them in a job well done and would give them more resources to extend the work. As I posted before we should be significantly increasing military spending.

Is Leicester not a separate state?

@JY MOSAD, SAS, US Special Forces - I support them in a job well done and would give them more resources to extend the work. As I posted before we should be significantly increasing military spending.

I agree. Its worked so well in the past...

Tom_W1987 - Member

No they're condoning it because we play geopolitics with the arab world, like we do with the rest of the world but have never been bombed by Cuban/Russian/Indian/Chinese/Kenyan terrorists.

Who's condoning it? Understanding something, and explaining it to the hard of thinking is not the same as condoning murder.

wrecker
There's a storm brewing.

Oh shit! better get on the internet quick then.

I agree. Its worked so well in the past...

Oh shit! better get on the internet quick then.

Missing the point again Jam

Are you supporting the killing of foreign nationals on foreign soil?
Would you support Iraq to do the same or would that be bad?
Again your stance is admirable , evidence based and so so principled 😕
There is no point you avoiding the question we all know your answers
We can do it and you support it but they are the terrorists
Your a Western version of all you oppose and despise and you are not so daft you dont realise it. the problem is you dont care as you are right and they are wrong....just like they know it.

So what are the leaders of islam going to do about the murders committed in the name of their religeon? Im sure they will come out with platitudes distancing themselves from these crimes. But thats just a political statement like we get from Ministers. I want to know what as a faith they are going to do about stoping these crimes done in their name?

A minute of silence down the pool at 12:00. Just the hum of pumps and air con.

Junkyard - lazarus

Missing the point again Jam

Are you supporting the killing of foreign nationals on foreign soil?

I think I really have missed the point here if you think that any of your post is in any way applicable to me.

EDIT: @Jambalaya - point taken I will be clearer next time
Sorry

Brevik did his crimes for white people
What are you going to do about it

It is not the fault of ordinary Muslims that nutters do this and any attempt to pass all responsibility to all Muslims is unfair.

I go to football matches am I responsible for all acts of violence and racism that happen there by any other football fan?

Government forces vs Individuals, very different. There has always been conflict and sadly there always will be. You have to be strong to protect your yourself and your interests. Sending a drone strike onto a terrorist training camp in Yemen is perfectly justifiable. Shooting journalists or school children is not. If you all know my answer why ask a question ?

Farage has chipped in somewhat predictably [url= http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/08/paris-attack-nigel-farage-gross-policy-multiculturalism ]Multiculturalism to blame[/url]

@jimjam - he was referring to me, perhaps I should use a shorter login_id

Furry muff.

I was trying to get you to realise the hypocrisy of your views as everyone else can

The issue is you are happy with our govts and your beloved Israel, who can do no wrong, funding and executing attacks abroad that, if other countries[iran] did them you would call them acts of terroristm.

You would and you do

What about bombing UN schools where women and children are hiding from bombings?
OK for israel and bad for Iran I assume

Explain?

So what are the leaders of islam going to do about the murders committed in the name of their religeon?

What can they do?

Government forces vs Individuals, very different. There has always been conflict and sadly there always will be. You have to be strong to protect your yourself and your interests. Sending a drone strike onto a terrorist training camp in Yemen is perfectly justifiable. Shooting journalists or school children is not. If you all know my answer why ask a question ?

Sorry, who's interests again? It seems to me that the people pulling the trigger to "defend our interests" aren't necessarily the ones on the ground or in the streets getting killed as a consequence of it.

jambalaya - Member

@Northwind ISIS and Shia / Sunni sectarian violence is killing far more Muslims than is the West. The policeman executed on the ground was an Arab. To describe the West's action in the Middle East as anti-Muslim is nonsense,

Not sure who you're actually responding to but it's definitely not me.

So are people really saying that the west deserves this kind of thing then? Because of a few cartoons?

Government forces vs Individuals, very different. There has always been conflict and sadly there always will be. You have to be strong to protect your yourself and your interests. Sending a drone strike onto a terrorist training camp in Yemen is perfectly justifiable. Shooting journalists or school children is not. If you all know my answer why ask a question ?

So when terrorists deliberately kill, say 5 civilians - in your opinion this is several orders of magnitude worse than a bombing campaign that takes out a handful of [i]suspected[/i] terrorists but kills hundreds of civilians too? 😕

A single drone strike in 2006 is thought to have killed 69 children. They're also almost certainly illegal under international law. I bet you don't give a shit do you?

I want to know what as a faith they are going to do about stoping these crimes done in their name?

FFS not again!!

What about bombing UN schools where women and children are hiding from bombings?

Civilians are always killed in wars, its very regrettable but its unavoidable. Hamas knew that when they instigated the conflict with 6 months of rocket fire on Israel and by the kidnapping and murder of the three teenagers which they have know acknowledged was carried out by their operatives.

Civilians are always killed in wars, its very regrettable but its unavoidable.

Using violence to achieve your political aims = exactly what the terrorists are doing.

It's just that we/Israel/the US are much, much better at killing people.

@grum it's not a breach of international law to fire at a target, that may turn out to have been a mistake but civilians are always killed in wars, in fact in modern times civilian casualties outnumber military ones. It's a sad fact and one we should all take into account before entering a conflict but it remains a fact.

@jamby

....and the israelis responded by relentlessly shelling one of the most densely populated countries in the world for a month killing 1000 men (all terrorists apparently) and 1000 women & children

which ones are the more evil again?

Shooting journalists or blowing commuters up on a train isn't the same as a drone strike on a pickup gunship or a training camp.

Just another reminder for you BTW that you will no doubt ignore - the Israeli state was founded by terrorists and lauds them as heroes.

Israel granted a general amnesty to Lehi members on 14 February 1949. In 1980, Israel instituted a military decoration in "award for activity in the struggle for the establishment of Israel," the Lehi ribbon.[22] Former Lehi leader Yitzhak Shamir became Prime Minister of Israel in 1983.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)

How about massacring a whole village jambalaya? Then making heroes out of those who did it? Pretty sick eh.

Around 107 villagers were killed during and after the battle for the village, including women and children—some were shot, while others died when hand grenades were thrown into their homes.[2] Several villagers were taken prisoner and may have been killed after being paraded through the streets of West Jerusalem, though accounts vary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre

he ones full of hidden rockets, the ones where rockets are launched from just outside or the school which was hit by an errant Hamas mortar with the video to show the playground where allegedly there where people was actually empty ? Journalists where kept in the hotel or hospital and shown and told what was approved by Hamas.

You crack me up on these threads jambalaya. Spectacularly missing points and avoiding awkward questions. Anyway, do you believe Israel creates conditions which foment terrorism? Or do Palestinians just not like Jews? Is it purely a religion thing?

So again, jambalaya - are you against terrorism and condemn it wholeheartedly, or does it depend?

How about bombing a train full of civilians?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)#Cairo-Haifa_train_bombings

What your argument boils down to is - 'we are the good guys, so whatever we do is fully justified - we can kill 10 times as many people as the baddies, but we're still the good guys'.

lol humans are pretending to be something other than slightly evolved apes..

Just another reminder for you BTW that you will no doubt ignore - the Israeli state was founded by terrorists and lauds them as heroes.

House!! 😀

So are people really saying that the west deserves this kind of thing then? Because of a few cartoons?

No. HTH.

It hasn't worked.

Head of MI5 speaking later today,

[i]It is too early for us to come to judgments about the precise details or origins of the attack but it is a terrible reminder of the intentions of those who wish us harm.[/i]

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11332986/Charlie-Hebdo-attack-terrible-reminder-of-terror-risk-says-head-of-MI5.html ]Reminder of the terror risks we face[/url]

Just another reminder for you BTW that you will no doubt ignore

Answer the ****ing question jamabalaya you massive hypocrite.