[Closed] "Muslim" terrorists attack French magazine in Paris

Yeah, beards!

(Hang on I haven't shaved for a bit)

No, not beards.

Sandals?

not seeing women as second class citizens...

I always thought beard and pulled-pork went together 😐

Hora if you are scared to use the train or shop in the trafford centre for fear of a Kenyan style attack then that is the sort of thing where paranoid loon applies

Did you stay in when the IRA bombed Manchester? Were you scared to go out?

[i]if you define freedom as the right for any american to own a gun then yes it in fact is! [/i]

I define freedom as people being able to say something I disagree with without fear of death.

Your stated intentions make you a threat to the freedom I believe in - what should I do?

no it would more harmonious society, i mean at first there would be a few deaths so to speak but once there were only people alive that agreed with each other then there would be far less conflict.

@bencooper

Really?

IF There were terrorists running around, who cleaved to the dogma of the Old Testament, then they would be equally dangerous.

Ever heard of the Lord's Resistance Army?

Oh I see you did a quick edit there after your reading fail!

not seeing women as second class citizens...

That's exclusively islamic is it?

I define freedom as people being able to say something I disagree with without fear of death.

That's exclusively islamic is it?

who cares all that believe in such crap should be treated with equal contempt!

no it would more harmonious society, i mean at first there would be a few deaths so to speak but once there were only people alive that agreed with each other then there would be far less conflict.

sten1 - Member

So anyone who thinks that reform of gun law in the US might be a good idea is a threat to freedom?

if you define freedom as the right for any american to own a gun then yes it in fact is!

Why are you concern with Merica? They have rights to bear arms so why is this even a topic of discussion? 🙄

if those journalists in france all had side arms today might have been very different!

[i]but what when those words lead others to kill and attack others? [/i]

That's what I asked you - your words seem to be wanting "others to kill and attack others", what should I do?

^/0\

.

but what when those words lead others to kill and attack others?

That's what I asked you - your words seem to be wanting "others to kill and attack others", what should I do?

sten1 - Member

if those journalists in france all had side arms today might have been very different!

Ya, it would between AK47 vs some French made pistols etc. AK47 is still much more powerful within 300-600 yards/metre.

Sig556 would top them all within that distance albeit with smaller projectile.

the solution to gun crime is not more guns

[i]lets all just have a really big fight and agree that the winner is in charge.[/i]

The George Bush route to freedom. 🙁

the solution to gun crime is not more guns

The solution to gun crime is not more guns

I'm pro gun ownership (sporting and pest control only, and with tight controls) and I agree with Junky.

The George Bush route to freedom.

Right im off for a burger 🙂

jambalaya - Member

Moderate Muslims need to fully understand their religion has been hijacked.

Nope, you need to understand that it has not. It's certainly been abused and taken in vain but to pretend that islam as a whole has been hijacked is absurd. In fact I reckon it's the sort of absurd that you can only really believe, or pretend to believe, because you just don't like muslims.

no you are right i think making sure its not only the bad guys that have them is the key here! you cant stop them from existing they are quite easy to make!

I imagine this will lead to tighter border controls for ferries etc.

We weren't searched at all on the way back into the UK last week in our car.

once there were only people alive that agreed with each other then there would be far less conflict

Junkyard - lazarus
the solution to gun crime is not more guns

Ya, I hear you. You are absolutely right.

However, when someone intends to kill you with a gun what do you do? Ring the police switchboard? "Please press 1 if someone has a gun trying to kill you" or "Please press 2 if you are half dead" or " Please press 3 if you are already dead" ...

Yes, bigger gun(s)! 😈

My gun is bigger than yours!

bencooper - Member
Its not like they've got a recent track record of this kind of thing, is it?
Who's "they"? Muslims? French people? Men?

The fanatics who do this kind of thing are about as Muslim as I am - they use some misunderstood parts of that religion to fuel their idiotic rage. Tying this kind of incident to one religion just plays into their hands.

Well said Ben. Terrorists are terrorists. It needs no qualification eg, religion or race. This is not an Islamic problem. Take the caliphate that some want to recreate. The last one (not that old) was tolerant of other religions (Baghdad was 40% Jewish after WW1), sexuality (gay relationships welcomed in poetry) and supported high levels of academic achievement. Far more advanced and progressive that our modern western society.

So let's define these acts for what they really are rather than use incorrect labels.

Northwind - Member
jambalaya - Member
Moderate Muslims need to fully understand their religion has been hijacked.

Nope, you need to understand that it has not. It's certainly been abused and taken in vain but to pretend that islam as a whole has been hijacked is absurd.

Well said too. Nice to agree with my Scottish friends!!

My gun is bigger than yours!

slowoldman - Member

My gun is bigger than yours!

And someone else's gun is way bigger than yours.

Now, don't put that in their mind ... ts! ts! ts!

Ok, I get bigger gun (I can also have cosmetic surgery to enhance the size you know ... 😆 ) and if they get even bigger gun, I get 50mm cannon ... etc 😆

I agree with Junky.

There are some proper remtards on here. I mean how difficult is it to understand that violence begets violence.
Be the change you want to see.
(which means obviously that I have no objection to you calling me a remtard if I am demonstratably being one).

Nope, you need to understand that it has not. It's certainly been abused and taken in vain

However, when someone intends to kill you with a gun what do you do? Ring the police switchboard? "Please press 1 if someone has a gun trying to kill you" or "Please press 2 if you are half dead" or " Please press 3 if you are already dead" ...

Yes, bigger gun(s)!

My gun is bigger than yours!

That is exactly what we would do and we would wait for somebody with a gun to protect us from the person who means us harm with a gun. We cant uninvent and having less of them is a laudable aim however if that reducing number is in the hands of tha bad guys then thats not what we need.

jambalaya - Member
@Mr Whoppitt. The magazine immediately re-tweeted the ISIL cartoon

Excellent. Never give in.

Well done, our leetle Fronch frernds...

😀 @ Junky!

surfer - Member
That is exactly what we would do and we would wait for somebody with a gun to protect us from the person who means us harm with a gun. We cant uninvent and having less of them is a laudable aim however if that reducing number is in the hands of tha bad guys then thats not what we need.

Ya, please press 4 for any other matters ...

Judging from the shooters you can't even use ordinary projectile (bullet) anymore.[b] You need armour piercing bullet as the shooters are covered with bullet proof vest[/b]. Either that or you need head shot to stop the trigger happy shooters.

Judging from the shooters you can't even use ordinary projectile (bullet) anymore. You need armour piercing bullet as the shooters are cover with bullet proof vest.

Here are some stats to put some of the discussion into context:

40% of British Muslims want Sharia law
20% of British Muslims sympathize with 7/7 bombers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

How do you square that circle?

This is against a global backdrop where:
61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans
32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans
41% of ****stanis approve of attacks on Americans
38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans
83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (only 14% oppose)
62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose)
42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose)

sten1 - Member

Judging from the shooters you can't even use ordinary projectile (bullet) anymore. You need armour piercing bullet as the shooters are cover with bullet proof vest.

i believe you want the hollow ones:)

Will not work. Unless you are a sharp shooter otherwise the chances of you hitting the head is slim in a panic mode. Armour piercing bullets give you more chance of a bigger target, besides you have a chance of slowing the shooters down and let the police marksman to practice head shot later on.

You might knock the shooters off momentarily but their fingers (nerves) are still connected to the brain so will keep pulling the trigger and with AK47 ... you have no chance. A head shot will severe the communication between all the nerves.

dbcooper - Member
There are some proper remtards on here. I mean how difficult is it to understand that violence begets violence.

Will not work. You might knock the shooters off momentarily but their fingers (nerves) are still connected to the brain so will keep pulling the trigger and with AK47 ... you have no chance. A head shot will severe the communication between all the nerves.

the more you know :~)

Mr Woppit ›› That's just dumb.

No, really. Why is my post dumb?

From what I gleaned from a few tv interviews over the last few months with folk that appear to know what's actually happening rather than simply guessing, it appears this ISIL or whatever it's called now is a mishmash of self-claimed 'warrior scholars' and various criminals who have taken it upon themselves to interpret the Quoran in a way that seems to appeal to the disenfranchised Muslims all over the world. These easily led individuals are not necessarily stupid, they are merely misguided by those who have spouted the re-interpretation. These 'scholars clearly know what they're doing and are far from stupid. Gullible might be a way of describing their followers but not stupid.

sten1 - Member
the more you know :~)

Hey, I am paranoid you know ... 😆

If I hear a pin drop I will draw ...

In that case I retract what i said

@digga, interesting links

@Northwind, your logic doesn't make sense. I am in favour of protecting millions of Shia Muslims from ISIL and supported action against Assad which would have saved the lives of 100'000s including 1000's of Palestinians in Syria

Oh ya the shooters copied the merica gunman wearing full armour protection using AK47 ... Police with pistol is no match at all without armour piercing rounds.

jambalaya - Member

@Northwind, your logic doesn't make sense. I am in favour of protecting millions of Shia Muslims from ISIL and supported action against Assad which would have saved the lives of 100'000s including 1000's of Palestinians in Syria

I rather Assad in power as I do not wish to feed his people for him. Similarly, I support Dear Leader in North Korea because I do not want his population to spill all over the world. The containment is just fine with me.

@teseal - I think what worries me is the high proportion of individuals who convert to radicalized Islam having previously been outside the religion and the community. They are being recruited by highly dangerous individuals. As you say these people are not stupid, many of them are very intelligent.

@digga, interesting links

Interesting that they only seemed to ask Islamic countries? intersting that they only seemed to ask countries that have at some time been on the wrong end of American foreign policy?

What did the French/Germans/Japanese etc etc. say?

jambalaya - Member

@teseal - I think what worries me is the high proportion of individuals who convert to radicalized Islam having previously been outside the religion and the community. They are being recruited by highly dangerous individuals. As you say these people are not stupid, many of them are very intelligent.

The converts are the worst and the most extreme of all. The so called born again in whatever faith are the worst.

If they are born in the West or live in the west chances are that they feel disenfranchise due to their own inability to integrate because of their background i.e. belief. They cannot integrate so the only way is to force others to accept their way of life or to turn the place into their ideal.

🙄

jambalaya - Member

@Northwind, your logic doesn't make sense. I am in favour of protecting millions of Shia Muslims from ISIL and supported action against Assad which would have saved the lives of 100'000s including 1000's of Palestinians in Syria

And that relates to my point how?

I think what worries me is the high proportion of individuals who convert to radicalized Islam having previously been outside the religion and the community.

Like attracts like, maybe. A lot of potentially peaceful protests in our own country have be sabotaged by those wanting only violence and disorder. Take the recent riots over Duggan's death; not sure many of those knew what they were standing for TBH.

@Northwind, I read your post as meaning you believed I hated Muslims or more accurately I must do based on my postings as that was the only explanation ?

Bazz - Member
Interesting that they only seemed to ask Islamic countries? intersting that they only seemed to ask countries that have at some time been on the wrong end of American foreign policy?

What did the French/Germans/Japanese etc etc. say?

I think it gives a fair indication of the schism.

digga - Member

Bazz - Member
Interesting that they only seemed to ask Islamic countries? intersting that they only seemed to ask countries that have at some time been on the wrong end of American foreign policy?

What did the French/Germans/Japanese etc etc. say?

What I think is more interesting is the split of opinion - yes there are a worrying (if not necessarily surprising, for various reasons) number of those who are distinctly anti-West, but also that there are, in most cases, roughly as many who are opposed to the view.

I think it gives a fair indication of the schism.

I'm not trying to make a case one way or the other, just pointing out that statistics like those can be used as propaganda by those with an anti Islam agenda.

@Jambalaya, I said "don't like" rather than hate so I'm not sure why you'd put words in my mouth. But yes, absolutely- you're a smart and literate person so that really leaves an ulterior motive as the only reasonable explanation for believing (or pretending to believe) that islam has been hijacked, and for putting responsibility for "reclaiming" their faith onto the blameless majority.

Nothing in your subsequent post seems relevant to that tbh

Poor reporting will only fuel the fire that supports more extreme nationalist parties (Germany's Pegida). At least the Fr politicians have shown some initial and sensible solidarity.

I think this cartoon is me done for this thread;

[img] [/img]

NO - I DO NOT BELIEVE IN ANY OF THE ABOVE. I am a peaceful, law abiding muslim who goes against every belief these terrorists hold.

I believe that most Germans weren't nazis before Hitler came along either (although I could be wrong).
& Look what happened there, Is this subject that much different? (I'm no historian as you can tall)

@Northwind - I have no ulterior motive, I posted up a while ago a list of personal experiences too close for comfort which have set my views. These include;

Working in London for 30 years during which there have been bombs very close by (IRA and 7/7), "ring of steel" security measures, a colleague I sat 10 feet from who was on Lockerbie flight, another good friend who was in the compound attacked by terrorists in Riyhad etc. A good friend who worked for KBW and was lucky not to be in the WTC on 9/11. I have just as strong views on the IRA as I do ISIS/Al-Q

Northwind - Member

@Jambalaya, I said "don't like" rather than hate so I'm not sure why you'd put words in my mouth. But yes, absolutely- you're a smart and literate person so that really leaves an ulterior motive as the only reasonable explanation for believing (or pretending to believe) that islam has been hijacked, and for putting responsibility for "reclaiming" their faith onto the blameless majority.

Northwind, what have you done? 😯

Crikey, this is interweb so be yourselves and everyone can judge everyone to the hilt.

I judge all of you on STW ... 😈 (look! I am behind yoouuuu ...!)

@TMH, Merkel is going to have here work cut out on this. The Pegida movement could intensify significantly. The last demonstration was 17,000 - the next ... ?

jambalaya - Member

@Northwind - I have no ulterior motive, I posted up a while ago a list of personal experiences too close for comfort which have set my views.

I don't know why you'd think this shows you have no ulterior motive? If anything, it helps explain it.

jambalaya - Member

@TMH, Merkel is going to have here work cut out on this. The Pegida movement could intensify significantly. The last demonstration was 17,000 - the next ... ?

Good!

This is a wake up call to all political zombie maggots.

🙄

Northwind - Member
I don't know why you'd think this shows you have no ulterior motive? If anything, it helps explain it.

FFS! You two are really like husband and husband. Everyone has an ulterior motive.

I expect the bookies are slashing the odds on Marine Le Pen as the next French President.

I believe that most Germans weren't nazis before Hitler came along either

Most of those who were, thought it was a bad idea after not too long, I'll bet...

Food for the apologists.

Archbishop of Raqqa, Amel Nona -

"Our sufferings today are the prelude of those you, Europeans and Western Christians, will also suffer in the near future. I lost my diocese. The physical setting of my apostolate has been occupied by Islamic radicals who want us converted or dead. But my community is still alive.

Please, try to understand us. Your liberal and democratic principles are worth nothing here. You must consider again our reality in the Middle East, because you are welcoming in your countries an ever growing number of Muslims. Also you are in danger. You must take strong and courageous decisions, even at the cost of contradicting your principles. You think all men are equal, but that is not true: Islam does not say that all men are equal. Your values are not their values. If you do not understand this soon enough, you will become the victims of the enemy you have welcomed in your home."

The Guardian has not cut the scene where the terrorists execute an injured policeman lying on the ground.

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2015/jan/07/gunmen-shooting-paris-police-officer-charlie-hebdo-video ]link[/url]

Are you not going to respond, Woppit?

The Guardian has not cut the scene where the terrorists execute an injured policeman lying on the ground.

Im hoping every newspaper worth its salt republishes the front page cartoon tomorrow morning!

I believe that most Germans weren't nazis before Hitler came along either

Or after for that matter.

Very true.

From Wikipedia, the free enyclopedia
Nazi Germany and the Third Reich are names for the German Reich from 1933 to 1945, when it was under control of Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party (NSDAP). Under Hitler's rule, Germany was transformed into a fascist totalitarian state which controlled nearly all aspects of life.

Nazi Germany ceased to exist after the Allied Forces defeated Germany in May 1945, ending World War II in Europe.

"Nazi Germany Before World War II
On January 30, 1933, Adolf Hitler, leader of the Nazi Party, became Chancellor of Germany. It was not long, however, before he turned himself into a dictator.
by Brenda Ralph Lewis
Olympic Games, Berlin 1936In 1919, when the Treaty of Versailles was signed, so ending World War I, Hitler was a corporal in the defeated German army. Infuriated by the punishing provisions of the Treaty, Hitler vowed revenge. For this purpose, he created a political party, the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (National Socialist or Nazi Party) with himself as Führer (leader).
The “Undesirable” Victims of the Nazis

At first, few Germans paid much attention to the Nazis,

However, many soon regretted giving Hitler their support.

By the end of 1933, all political parties except for the Nazi Party were outlawed.

Hitler so detested the Jews that he wanted to exterminate them throughout the world. By 1938, German Jews had lost their citizenship, their jobs and their businesses. They and their homes and synagogues were regularly attacked by the thugs of the Nazi Schutzstaffel (SS).

Nazi Benefits which Came at a Price
At least at first, other, more “desirable” Germans were delighted to have jobs after years of poverty and unemployment. They also enjoyed family allowances and improved medical services, and for some, there were holidays partly paid for by the government.

But there was a price to pay for these benefits. Workers had no right to strike or negotiate for better pay. Although wages were not high, they had to contribute one quarter of their earnings to Nazi organizations in taxes and subscriptions. And always, the sinister Gestapo, the Nazi secret police, was watching, waiting to pounce on anyone who showed the slightest sign of discontent or anti-Nazi ideas.

The shadow of terror and brute force had fallen over Germany, but this was largely concealed from the outside world. Visitors to Germany were shown what was best about Nazi rule - the happy, healthy children in holiday camps, the splendid public buildings or the new autobahnen, the freeways.

Nazi Germany as Visitors Never Saw it
What they were not allowed to see was the evidence that, contrary to the provisions of the Treaty of Versailles, Nazi Germany was secretly preparing for war. These preparations were achieved in all sorts of furtive ways. Aircraft manufacturers built planes for the Lufthansa passenger airline that could be quickly converted into bombers. What looked like pleasure speedboats were actually naval torpedo raiders in disguise.

Adolf Hitler Shocks the World
Then, on March 16, 1935, Adolf Hitler shocked the world by announcing the truth: that Germany had been constructing guns , tanks and other armaments forbidden at Versailles.

Thoroughly alarmed, the British and the French rushed to build up their own somewhat neglected armed forces. Meanwhile, their political leaders tried to halt the new Nazi menace by a policy of appeasement, which meant giving in to Hitler’s demands in the hope that he would not make even greater stipulations.

This was why no move was made to prevent the German army from marching into the Rhineland in 1936 or Austria in 1938. In both cases,, Hitler was blatantly breaking the Treaty of Versailles which had demilitarized the Rhineland and forbidden the Anschluss, the union of Germany with Austria.

Encouraged by this inaction, Hitler demanded the Sudetenland, a part of Czechoslovakia where many German-speaking people lived. As he expected, there was more appeasement.

The Munich Conference and its Aftermath
At a conference in Munich on September 30, 1938, the British and French prime ministers - Neville Chamberlain and Edouard Daladier - agreed to this demand without even consulting the horrified Czechs. Six months later, Hitler occupied the rest of Czechoslovakia, despite the fact that he had agreed not to do so at Munich.

Next, Hitler threatened the Poles who, like the Czechs had German-speaking people within their borders. By this time, though, even Chamberlain had lost patience and in August 1939, Britain and France promised to aid the Poles if they were attacked.

The Start of World War II
The attack came on a September 1, 1939 when a powerful German army invaded Poland. The Germans soon had the much weaker Polish forces reeling back under the hammer blows of their blitzkrieg, lightning war.

Hitler was confident that Britain and France would let him have his way in Poland, just as they had done in the Rhineland, Austria and Czechoslovakia. But he was wrong. On September 2, the British and French governments issued an ultimatum: if Nazi Germany did not withdraw its forces by 1100 hours next day, they would declare war.

The Germans did not withdraw and on September 3, World War II began."

Is there a pattern? Are we going down the same road? Is it going to take another world war? I do realise that Nazi Germany was an actual nation & not an ideology.

[i]Im hoping every newspaper worth its salt republishes the front page cartoon tomorrow morning![/i]

And would you still say that if your Wife worked as a Receptionist at one of those Newspapers?

Working in London for 30 years during which there have been bombs very close by (IRA and 7/7), "ring of steel" security measures, a colleague I sat 10 feet from who was on Lockerbie flight, another good friend who was in the compound attacked by terrorists in Riyhad etc. A good friend who worked for KBW and was lucky not to be in the WTC on 9/11. I have just as strong views on the IRA as I do ISIS/Al-Q

Yet you're fine with Jewish terrorism, as we've established in previous threads.

You think all men are equal, but that is not true: Islam does not say that all men are equal. Your values are not their values.

So, what we are saying is that Muslims are not equal to us, because they don't think we're equal to them? 😕

" ... You must take strong and courageous decisions, even at the cost of contradicting your principles. You think all men are equal, but that is not true: Islam does not say that all men are equal. Your values are not their values. [b]If you do not understand this soon enough, you will become the victims of the enemy you have welcomed in your home.[/b]"

That is the chilling reminder to all of you coz you think you know how to handle them until it is too late.

esselgruntfuttock - Member

Is there a pattern? Are we going down the same road? Is it going to take another world war? I do realise that Nazi Germany was an actual nation & not an ideology.

Shall we deal with the current issue before we dig up WWII again?

[quote=jerseychaz ]Im hoping every newspaper worth its salt republishes the front page cartoon tomorrow morning!
[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

That is all

Well, definitely Islamists.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=85c_1420633406

There's another video on there of a French police officer getting shot that I wouldn't recommend clicking if you want to sleep tonight. After watching that video, id say these men looked trained as opposed to home grown idiot nutcases. I really wouldn't be surprised if they are hardened ISIS militants.