You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
To be fair, there's been little to do. It's been broadly civilised
Bum.
Bum bum bum bum.
Bum.
This is quite long
It is yes...
worth a read
It really isn't.
Bum.
Fair dues Woppit. 😀
Now, about that Free Speech angle...
[url= http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/un-panel-israel-suppressing-footage-of-gaza-flotilla-raid-1.316201 ]What the BBC report fails to mention is that Israeli authorities confiscated footage from journalists aboard the flotilla[/url]
[img] 
:large[/img]
Wow so Israel gets to decide what goes to other counties from Turkey
With respect to Gaza yes. Your comparison with Iran makes no sense, other than to say if Iran doesn't wish the US to supply arms to Israel it can try and intercept them. the fact is Iran is subject to numerous sanctions and restrictions due to its actions and stance on a range of issues including it's attempts to arm Hamas. Israel seeks to ensure Hamas cannot arm itself hence checking all "aid" which enters Gaza. Israel isn't always right, no country or individual ever is.
There is "no accepted STW view" and debate and all views are to be encouraged and held up to the same rational analysis. When your argument fails this test dont get upset [or overly personal].
Had to have a chuckle at this JY, so many personal insults aimed at me for posting alternative views, some of which I admit are pretty abrupt, ultimately water off a ducks back though. You are welcome to point out anywhere I have insulted someone.
How would Iran be today if the democratically elected government hadn't been overthrown by the CIA and MI6?
Anjem Choudary sailing close to the wind again
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11342210/UK-shops-to-receive-Charlie-Hebdo-magazine-despite-radical-cleric-calling-it-an-act-of-war.html ]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11342210/UK-shops-to-receive-Charlie-Hebdo-magazine-despite-radical-cleric-calling-it-an-act-of-war.html[/url]
Radical cleric Mr Choudary said "ridiculing" Mohammed is attacking his personality, and said these actions are "extremely serious", adding that if the "act of war" was to be tried in a Shariah Court it would carry capital punishment."It's not just a cartoon, it's insulting, it's ridiculing, it's provoking," he said.
The lecturer in Shariah law, who was arrested in September as part of an investigation into Islamist terrorism, added: "These things always have a history of coming back and biting them. People are not going to forget. Muslims will never forget what these people did.
"And I'm sure there's someone somewhere who will take the law into his own hands. It's inevitable.
"There will be repercussions. I think there will be someone somewhere who will retaliate."
You are welcome to point out anywhere I have insulted someone.
You are welcome to point out where I said you did.
The point was general point about STW rather than specific to you. If it was unclear then I apologise*
choudry is both correct about what it means under sharia law and that it is likely someone will retaliate. that said he is also an odious **** delivering a barely hidden threat.
It hard to not advise him to just move to a country with Sharia law
* though you could say what you would do if Iran blocked Israel or explain the principle at work.....you could couldn't you?
Going back a few hours
"Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. "
Who said that then?
Is a paraphrase of this from the the wise words of the wise one...
[i]The unwise man thinks all to know,
while he sits in a sheltered nook;
but he knows not one thing, what he shall answer,
if men shall put him to proof. [/i]
Hey, Anjem...
[img] 
[/img]
jambalaya - Member
As for the Turkish boat thing it got a huge amount of coverage at the time and afterwards and lead to an international investigation at the UN (I recall) where Israel was cleared.
More spin than a roulette wheel!
"Israel's decision to board the vessels with such substantial force at a great distance from the blockade zone and with no final warning immediately prior to the boarding was excessive and unreasonable"
Your comparison with Iran makes no sense
Is this an edit as I missed it
Yes its my comparison rather than your principles that make no sense
My bad.
We fought over hundreds of years to limit the power of religion, and have a secular state, we don't need to return to 1697 because of a minority of deeply insecure religious nut jobs that can't take a joke.
Let's remember that just a few years ago we had a religious minority who were deeply upset by a parody of their prophet that was so offensive that it should be banned
Did we respond to this by self censoring and never saying anything nasty that might upset them in the future, or by telling them to stop being so silly?
Wow so Israel gets to decide what goes to other counties from TurkeyWith respect to Gaza yes.
why? its not their land and neither is the occupied territory...as decreed by the UN.
JY - I think I did edit that line as it didn't make sense when I read it back. Funny how my principals seem to be aligned to UK government policy over the past 20 years, governments of all persuasions Labour, Conservative and coalition ?
If Iran tried to blockade Israel ? Mute point really as it's impossible and Iran knows the response from the US and Israel would be pretty dramatic.
@Lifer I thought that was nothing more than a slap on the wrist and in any case if you have navy ships alongside and helicopters overhead and a deck full of people with iron bars and marbles you are expecting to be boarded. Israel was cleared with respect to shooting those on-board, that was the central charge.
I don't mean to get the thread off-topic although I am probably guilty of that.
why? its not their land and neither is the occupied territory...as decreed by the UN.
Because the government of Gaza has as it's main policy the elimination of the state of Israel. Doing anything else other than tightly managing the borders to prevent the importation of weapons would be naive in the extreme. It wasn't like this when the Israeli's pulled out in 2005, it changed when Hamas was elected in 2006. The Egyptians have now widened the buffer zone to 1km demolishing houses and destroying tunnels, on Al Monitor Hamas were complaining about how much this would limit their ability to smuggle weapons including more sophisticated ones with a token complaint about less food.
Funny how my principals seem to be aligned to UK government policy over the past 20 years, governments of all persuasions Labour, Conservative and coalition ?
Are you claiming they are never wrong? FWIW you are meant to explain how your view is correct not list all the folk who agree with it
If Iran tried to blockade Israel ? Mute point really as it's impossible and Iran knows the response from the US and Israel would be pretty dramatic.
How is that meant to explain the "principle" you apply ? as I said if your views dont stand up to rational analysis change them. You are not even prepared to try.
Your, repeated, side steps of the clear and salient point being made to you tell us all what we already knew. It also shows us that you know it too 😳
Israel was cleared.
nothing more than a slap on the wrist
Which one of these are you claiming happened now ?
It was cleared or it was lightly punished ?
Very brave lady [url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11342699/Newsagent-defies-threats-by-stocking-Charlie-Hebdo-magazine.html ]Local newsgent will stock Charlie Ebdo[/url]
For being able to explain her position or for the position 😉
I agree lets not get sidetracked, no more from me.
A very good explanation of the Charlie Hebdo cartoons
http://www.understandingcharliehebdo.com
(The Castorama one is brilliant)
@ninfan, thanks for sharing that, very interesting and amusing. Most of those cartoons I like most people here will ever have seen before.
I look forward to having a good go through that, thanks Ninfan.
Yup that's an interesting link and I will admit that gives some context that I wasn't aware of. I still think some of those cartoons are very dodgy though, especially the Boko Haram benefits one.
'We published something really racist but it's ok because we're actually taking the piss out of racists' - hmmm...
The one of bullets going through the Koran is pretty dubious too, and not mentioned on that link.
@grum, I think the Boko Haram one is indeed controversial as the captured women where to be sold as sex slaves. As the explanation says its a comment on benefit claimants which itself is interesting as Charlie Ebdo is a very left wing magazine. Most of us have never read the magazine, I used to see it on newsstands in Paris but never thought to buy it before. I think now after the evens in Paris that has changed fundamentally. Even Arnie now has a subscription.
Print run now expected to be 5m, all copies today sold out in minutes.
[url= http://www.mcb.org.uk/defend-beloved-prophet-let-us-exemplify-true-ideals-say-imams/ ]Muslim Council of Britain Responce[/url]
EDIT: To me the bullets/Koran one shows that the terrorists are damaging their own religion, their own Prophet and that the Koran is no protection against evil acts.
Does anyone know where to find comparisons between how many of each religion are in editorial positions in the western media?
i.e. Something along the lines of how many Muslims have a say over what content goes out vs how many Christians, Jews or Zionists?
(I include Zionists separately, since it seems Christians can also be Zionists, as evidenced by David Cameron and Boris Johnson among others)
If you analyse everything Charlie in terms of right and left you won't get very far. As I've already said, whilst broadly centre left Charlie spares no-one. A non-controversial one:
[img] 
[/img]
@jive - you would imagine the representation would reflect society, so with Muslims being in a minority you'd expect the same of broader press ownership in the West. Given the virtually unlimited funds available to Saudis, Emiratees and Qataris they are free to buy whatever they want. Aside from Al Jazeera I would note they seem to be far more interested in airlines and property. I mean for the price of the Shard or the old Chelsea Hospital barracks they could have bought anything they want. The Qataris own PSG, you can buy a lot of French media for the cost of Zlatan's wages.
Curiouser and curiouser.
[i]"Turkish president accuses 'the West' of being behind Charlie Hebdo attacks"[/i]
@digga, nothing curious about Ergodan's rants, see comments earlier in this thread. Also how do you think all these IS fighters are getting into Syria, via unimpeded passage from Turkey who co-incidently have been buying IS oil on the cheap thus funding their operations.
@grum, describing Cameron as a worse threat the press freedom than two guys who murdered journalists just makes their argument look daft. In any case what Snowden did was illegal under UK law so Cameron was just applying the law as any UK Prime Minister would have done.
They might be stretching the point somewhat by including Cameron - however, your favourites the IDF have intentionally targeted and murdered journalists, so the criticism of Netanyahu is extremely pertinent eh?
BTW - here's the French showing their strong commitment to freedom of speech again...
Always found this Guardian article interesting; must have some substance, otherwise doubtless the CIA, FBI, NSA and their legal teams would've done their utmost to have it taken down:
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/21/government-agents-directly-involved-us-terror-plots-report?CMP=twt_fd&CMP=SOCxx2I2 ]Government Agents Directly involved in most U.S. Terror plots[/url]
"In some cases the FBI may have created terrorists out of law-abiding individuals by suggesting the idea of taking terrorist action or encouraging the target to act," the report alleges.
@grum, indeed the Israelis are down the bottom of a list for press freedom but still above Turkey. I believe some 17 journalists where listed as killed in Gaza, it was a war zone so the Western journalists stayed out of the way in safer areas, none where killed. Wearing a jacket saying Press isn't going to protect you from an airstrike.
That guy DuoDonne is a confirmed anti-Semite, Tweeting his sympathy for the terrorist was a deliberate attempt at provocation and he probably thinks it's good pr to get himself arrested. He is a comedian but is banned for performing and with good reason. He is appealing to a specific target audience which I am sure you can work out. His "salute" is widely understood to be an inverted "zeig-heil" - that's why Annelka was effectively kicked out of the UK and the club sponsor (Zoopla owned by A Jew) withdrew their sponsorship immediately independent of Annelka's fine/ban/transfer.
Must have [s]some[/s] no substance, otherwise doubtless the CIA, FBI, NSA and their legal teams would've done their utmost to have it taken down.
Muslim London coffee shop owner threatened over Je Suis Charlie sign
[url= http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/coffee-shop-boss-faces-death-threat-over-je-suis-charlie-sign-outside-brick-lane-shop-9976546.html ]story link[/url]
Dieudonné isn't banned from performing, he's due to appear at my local Zenith shortly. I hope he gets out of jail in time, he channels some of anti-western sentiment in a non-violent manner. His latest show passed the anti-Semitic test and we'll have to wait and see if a court decides his latest provocation is illegal.
Interesting @Edukator, I had read his show was banned, so he's updated it. Hopefully it will be monitored and recorded for infractions.
In other news the Turkish State News Agency has confirmed all websites showing the front page of Charlie Ebdo will be banned/blocked 😯 Not sure for how long or quite how they will achieve that, incredible this is a country that thought it could join the EU
So much for Turkey being a secular state.
Drac - ModeratorMust have [s]some[/s] no substance, otherwise doubtless the CIA, FBI, NSA and their legal teams would've done their utmost to have it taken down.
Ahem
[url= http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/29/opinion/sunday/terrorist-plots-helped-along-by-the-fbi.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 ]Terrorist plots 'helped' by FBI[/url]
Of the 22 most frightening plans for attacks since 9/11 on American soil, 14 were developed in sting operations.
(I'm not sure how they've quanitified 'fright' though)
BTW - here's the French showing their strong commitment to freedom of speech again...
Racist man that complains about racism get's done for supporting terrorists who took issue with the same issues that allowed racist man to make past racist remarks and get away with it.....what a tragedy....
AhemTerrorist plots 'helped' by FBI
F.B.I working undercover shocker.
I think there's a difference in undercover work against an indentified threat and phising for people who may, given the proper help (in these cases not unsubstantial from the FBI) try to do something.
Better the FBI than actual terrorists though, and I'm not losing any sleep over them.
I read today a thought provoking sentence;
[i]The right to life surpasses all other rights[/i]
One of the best statements I've read on this. Just unfortunate it was buried in an article about Anjem Choudhary saying that selling the comics in Britain is 'an act of war'
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11342210/UK-shops-to-receive-Charlie-Hebdo-magazine-despite-radical-cleric-calling-it-an-act-of-war.html ]Telegraph[/url]
Sughra Ahmed, president of the Islamic Society of Britain, said freedom needs to be defended "at all costs"."We need to de-escalate the tension around all this. Those Muslims who feel offended may have a right, but in the scheme of things we should be far more offended by injustice, economic exploitation, anti-Semitism, homophobia, murder, etc," she said.
"We are not defending the new cartoon per se, but the 'all is forgiven' sentiment is important and gracious and if many of my work colleagues were shot dead, I would feel defiant and want to fight back, so I understand where this is coming from.
"The people that committed the murders in the name of Mohammed did anything but help his teachings and his cause.
"If we want religion to be taken seriously and treated as a topic of every day conversation, it can't be off limits, it will inevitably be criticised and even ridiculed. We just have to accept that as part of modern day life.
"At a time when Muslims in other parts of the world are struggling for freedom, we should understand better than anyone else the importance of free speech. Freedom is a benefit for all, and we need to defend it at all costs."
Interesting indeed @Lifer. I certainly agree that the murders don't help the teachings of Islam or its cause.
Hollande has confirmed the big aircraft carrier can (will certainly IMO) assist in action against IS. I think this shows how much the attack on France backfires, France is (was ?) one of the most pro Middle East/Arab countries in the EU.
Why would an Israeli official and not a French one be the 1st to release info to the press agencies?
[img] 
:large[/img]
Original tweet [url= https://twitter.com/AP/status/553628903861145601 ]here[/url]
We don't know, why don't you tell us rather than playing bloody guessing games?
jivehoneyjive - because Robert Murdoch had Hollande's phone tapped who in turn had their phone tapped by Mossad who in turn actually run America and the AP?
Joke... or is it... 😉
Free speech Israeli style...
OK jive at what time did the French release the news ? Given the whole incident was the subject of live rolling on site news footage why does it matter or signify anything who was first to tweet the news. Anyway why were you first to circulate a forged BBC page when only the forgers or people close to them would even know it existed.
@ edukator or anyone else French tbh - its a genuine question BTW
Why is fredom of sppech ok for Charile but not for the comedian?
Fromt he outside it strikes me as free to say what you want as long as we agree. Clearly what he says is offnive but so what?
Edukator I assume from your post you dont agree wiht his treatment so not aimed at you / a troll I am genuinely curious as to the thinking here
@ Jam bloody journalist eh getting in thew ay of the Israeli bombs and bullets .You are like one of those spoof twitter accounts from the IDF
Why is fredom of sppech ok for Charile but not for the comedian?
Because the comedian broke the law.
Also there was a certain hilarity to arresting him, as it would appear that he only likes free speech if it's a message that he agrees with - like making potentially anti-Semitic jokes.
OK jive at what time did the French release the news ?
Not sure yet... I'm off out swimming, so if you want to do the research and post it up, it'd be much appreciated
Anyway why were you first to circulate a forged BBC page when only the forgers or people close to them would even know it existed.
I wasn't... I was the 1st on the forum of course, but there's a big old world out there beyond the forum~ like much of the latest info in developing situations, twitter is where I got the link.
That BBC link was indeed a dud, but [url= https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2015/01/12/charlie-hebdo-attacks-not-so-much-a-false-flag-as-a-free-hand/ ]this:[/url]
[b]Doubt 1: The security cop who killed himself[/b]The Charlie attack began around 11.30 am (CET) on 7 January 2015
Immediately, a specialist cop with relevant experience – Helric Fredou – was assigned to the case. He had been an anti-terrorist Special Branch (SRPJ) police officer since 2011.
He worked all day assessing film, recordings, identity details. He stopped for neither lunch nor dinner, but (I’m told) did phone one family member and “express concerns” about some of the stuff he’d seen. Just after 1 am the next morning, he died from a bullet wound to the head. He had “a history of depression” the authorities quickly established. The verdict was suicide.
Just two months earlier, he’d found an immediate colleague dead in similar circumstances.The verdict was suicide.
[b]Doubt 2: The missing frames from the France 24 video of cop being ‘killed’[/b]
This clip of film was clumsily edited before publication. The missing bit in slowmo and close-up looks to me conclusive: the killer who ‘finishes off’ officer Ahmed Merabet with an AK47 from close range misses the cop, the bullet ricochets off the pavement. From that range, a successful shot to the head would’ve blown Merabet’s brains up and down the street. There is no sign of any such effect.
We’ve been told Ahmed Merabet died from that shot. He didn’t. Do we have a body? Will there be an autopsy?
[b]Doubt 3: Flak jackets on the roof.[/b]
One Paris contact says some of this film too has been edited since the incident. This person (and others on French blogs) claim they can clearly discern flak jackets on some of the observers.
That too suggests pre-warning of the attack.
[b]Doubt 4: Establishment of terrorist identity[/b]
Although I’ve tried already to establish that the two perpetrators were near brain-extinct, not even a martyr with an IQ in single figures would leave his identity card in the getaway car for the cops to find: frankly, anyone with an ounce of sense would leave all IDs at home (or destroy them) and rip all tabs out of their clothing.
[b]Doubt 5: They were already under surveillance[/b]
At the risk of pressing a tad too hard on the sarcasm pedal, having terrorists under surveillance kind of loses its attraction as a policy if they’re still free – in broad daylight, in the capital city – to mosey on downtown to the offices of the most offensive BD-mag in France, don face balaclavas, enter the wrong address, take a hostage – and then gain effortless access to the building.
There are only two conclusions possible here: either the French security services are at a level in the basement below ‘useless’, or they turned a blind eye. For reasons that both precede and follow, I favour the latter.
[b]Doubt 6: No idea of the address, but fully briefed on it being weekly editorial meeting from 11am onwards[/b]
Turning this same coin over, we are being asked to believe that two slogan-screaming idiots (who didn’t even case the joint before driving there) nevertheless had an espionage network capable of discovering the exact time of Charlie Hebdo’s weekly editorial meeting….but not which floor it took place on.
I think there’s a very good chance they were helped on the timing information.
[b]
Doubt 7: Mass rally of world ‘leaders’ in three days flat[/b]It’s obvious to most people (with the probable exception of Con Coughlin) that the Hypocrisy Happening in Paris at the weekend was – given the nature of censorship applied by these sociopaths across the planet these days – likely to result in a rush on anti-seasickness pills, what’s less obvious is how Hollande managed to round up almost every Swinging Dick on Earth to turn up that quickly.
The whole event seemed to me carefully orchestrated.
[url= http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/police-officer-in-charlie-hebdo-investigation-shot-himself-dead-hours-after-the-attack-9972994.html ]
The Policeman investigating's death[/url]
[url= https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJEvlKKm6og ]The footage of the shooting[/url]
And the prior performance of the intelligence services, be it:
the [url=www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/21/government-agents-directly-involved-us-terror-plots-report?CMP=twt_fd&CMP=SOCxx2I2]Guardian article already mentioned regarding how Goverment agents often recruit patsies to carry out terror attacks[/url]
Or the vast network behind [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio ]Operation Gladio[/url]
All raise legitimate questions...
In France there's a word "apologie" which doesn't mean apology it means excusing/justifying/supporting. So "apologie de crime de guerre" doesn't mean you feel sorry but that you speak out in favour of the war crimes. It's illegal in France in a number of contexts including apologie de crime antisémite et du terrorisme. A court will have to decide if Dieudonné's support for the guy who killed the Jews constitutes such a crime.
My personal view is that Dieudonné gave his support to or stated that he identified with the killer, but without reference to his crimes. Unless he went further than the Je Suis... I saw. A court will decide.
As in "apologist" I guess?
As an outsider it strike me as offensive but also his right /free speech to say he supports them
I guess he also courts controversy as well as it pays the bills
Ta
For the record I do not think you are a racist and I accept I overstepped the mark in order to make my point re offence.
I apologise for this as it was unnecessary. I should have clarified and apologised earlier than I did/have.
Whilst I dont always get your views on the Burkha and other issues I do not think your motivation/reason is racism.
Sorry
In France there's a word "apologie" which doesn't mean apology it means excusing/justifying/supporting. So "apologie de crime de guerre" doesn't mean you feel sorry but that you speak out in favour of the war crimes. It's illegal in France in a number of contexts including apologie de crime antisémite et du terrorisme. A court will have to decide if Dieudonné's support for the guy who killed the Jews constitutes such a crime.
It would potentially be illegal in this country as well, under anti-terrorism legislation.
As an outsider it strike me as offensive but also his right /free speech to say he supports them
Personally, I find it utterly hilarious the dickhead got arrested. Like most of these types, they only support freedom of speech until that right is being exercised by a group of people they dislike, I'd get a similar laugh out of a far-right type getting done in similar circumstances.
"OK jive at what time did the French release the news ?
Not sure yet.".
So you made it up when you suggested an Israeli official was first? Even if true does that mean anything more that the Israeli embassy had an observer on site who unlike the French had nothing better to do than tweet?
"Anyway why were you first to circulate a forged BBC page when only the forgers or people close to them would even know it existed.
I wasn't...twitter is where I got the link" so you follow the fakers on twitter and trust them more than the Lamestreem media"
Doubt 1: The security cop who killed himself . very sad history of depression access to firearm very traumatic time previous traumatic experience . who honestly knows but suicide is a tad more plausible than random motiveless black opp
"but (I’m told) did phone one family member and “express concerns” about some of the stuff he’d seen." Told by who what concerns lots of dark hints to fantasise about but no actual logical scenario.
"Doubt 2:" made up fantasy based on what the author thinks a video of someone being shot would look like . the author clearly having no technical qualification .
"We’ve been told Ahmed Merabet died from that shot. He didn’t. " what is the basis for the assertion he didnt ?
"Do we have a body?" Yes and grieving relatives and a funeral to boot or are you sick enough to say they are actors
" Will there be an autopsy?" Probably .
"Doubt 3: Flak jackets on the roof." Or bodywarmers or usual anti terror police has the authur ever been to Paris last time I was there there were 3 man army teams patroling stations in combats with flack jackets and assault rifles.
"That too suggests pre-warning " utter rubbish UK police and even security guards wear stab vests that look exactly like flac jackets as a matter of routine
Doubt 4:"not even a martyr with an IQ in single figures would leave his identity card in the getaway car" the author is clearly thick one you need valid ID docs in France no martyr would want to blow his opp by having none or false docs spotted on a routine stop . martyrs want to be maytrs they have no worries about being identified and indeed every reason to seek to be named.
"Doubt 5:
At the risk of pressing a tad too hard on the sarcasm pedal, having terrorists under surveillance does not mean what the authur thinks it means from having watched some films. Often it is intermitent indeed mechanical rarely is it close observation which needs a significant team
"Doubt 6: No idea of the address, but fully briefed on it being weekly editorial meeting from 11am onwards" made up unless the author is in the terrorist cell and can say these things are true.
Turning this same coin over,= having your cake and eating it.
"Doubt 7: Mass rally of world ‘leaders’ in three days flat" either a few world leaders were able to make that rally at short notice by use of aeroplane s or the French rang up a few months ago and said we are thinking of staging a terrorist incident and want you to attend when is good for you? Let me chose which is credible.
I am sorry for posting this but I do find these conspiracy theory's offensive and disrespectful to the dead. The same theory's with almost the same facts have been asserted and demonstrated to be false in relation to previous incidents and it is more than noteworthy that they normally originate from the same groups .
[b]it is more than noteworthy that they normally originate from the same groups .[/b]
And the same person on here
Jive , and this is a serious question, what was the last major event that you thought was not a conspiracy.
this is the problem every single event is one
The facts are irrelevant they serve only to be manipulated and twisted to prove that whatever the event is it was a conspiracy as that is what you believe the moment you first hear the news on EVERYTHING
"OK jive at what time did the French release the news ?
Not sure yet.".
So you made it up when you suggested an Israeli official was first? Even if true does that mean anything more that the Israeli embassy had an observer on site who unlike the French had nothing better to do than tweet?
Have you provided any evidence to the contrary?
Nope
Lucky I'm good at getting to the bottom of things eh... [url= https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/553613842018611201 ]here is the original source[/url]
As regards the Flak jacket, judge for yourself:
or maybe the whole Weapons of Mass Destruction thing...
Thank you, Junkyard.
Edit: whilst some of Jive's points stretch the imagination the fact the killers turned up for the editorial meeting suggests they were being provided information by others and may have been acting on orders.
While jive does seem desperate to see the conspiracy in everything there is a pretty murky history of government agents/informers doing all sorts of shady stuff including acting as 'agent provocateurs' in numerous terrorist groups. This is fairly well documented.
Not saying that is the case here but to completely discount it as a possibility isn't being rational/skeptical.
So the French released it first.
No flack jacket s one possible body warmer
No missing frames .
No impossible speed.
Stand down all is not suspicious.
So the French released it first.
No flack jacket s one possible body warmer
No missing frames .
No impossible speed.
Stand down all is not suspicious.
Just popped that in Google translate and it came back as 'denial'
Barak Ravid=
[img] :large[/img]
I'll let you do the research on that
The rest, everyone can judge for themselves...
Of course police and counter terror use under covers and agent provocatures and participating informants but it is a big leap from that to this and counterproductive . The whole point is to push them to commit than catch them interrogate and convict . not to let them win for no benefit.
Educator not hard to work out when a regular meeting fixed to a regular publication date would be . on the other hand they it may have just been a coincidence . a day earlier we may be wondering how they knew the time of the financial review meeting a day later how did they find out about Julie from accounts surprise retirement party.
Seriously if it was false flag tipped off how did the staff chose who was to escape on to the roof and who got to die?
Jive your own link says Hollande told the Israelis Holande is French you know.
Seriously if it was false flag tipped off how did the staff chose who was to escape on to the roof and who got to die?
Victims of false flags aren't tipped off: as the guardian link suggests real terror acts occur after patsies are brainwashed and armed.
It's dirty, it's wrong, it's horrific, but that doesn't mean it's not real...
Is that the case here?
No one can be sure at this stage, but given the number of pointers, further investigation is wise.
So who are the people evacuating on to the roof jive?
Name One single terror act from the guardian that actually went through to a incident where the terrorists struck.
I can't imagine for one minute why Israeli officials might be in close touch with French officials when the police are raiding a building to rescue Jewish hostages.
Tell me, would you be surprised to hear that it's not uncommon for police and special forces of various countries to train together and to have observers at major incidents? Well documented that SAS assisted in GSG9 rescue missions etc.
I've been providing answers the whole time crankboy, maybe it's your turn...
EDIT: Yes ninfan, it is indeed common for security services to work together, like the CIA and MI6 in the coup of Iran over oil prices, or like CIA/MI6/Saudi Collaboration on Operation Cyclone.
Perhaps you could provide some similar instances involving MOSSAD?
How many intelligence agencies worked together on founding the network surrounding Operation Gladio, I shudder to think...
What do you hope to achieve JHJ...?
there is a pretty murky history of government agents/informers doing all sorts of shady stuff including acting as 'agent provocateurs' in numerous terrorist groups. This is fairly well documented.
True
Sometimes my eyesight decives me and I end up being the victim of an optical illusion or not seeing somethign properly
Neither fact means you should not believe your eyes nor act like Jive-. its a massive leap from a "known" point of cynicism into some sort of surreal flight of fancy
As always he needs proof. His version of proof is someway from most folks and seems to conside smear , innuendo and an appeal to do further research as proof.
real terror acts occur after patsies are brainwashed and armed.
this is the great irony you are a conpiracist patsy and you are brain washed into seeing thing everywhere.
I wish you all the best in making Jive rational but these "debates" are pointless. Facts and reason dont sway him so I am not sure what you expect to happen here
a) Further investigation of anomalies, to ensure no foul play
b) Raise awareness of the dark acts carried out by Governments, so as to prevent the causes of terrorism in the 1st place
Seems a bit silly posting on a bike forum, I know, but beside those who actually post on the thread, there is doubtless many other observers.
OK... but how do you see your involvement making a real world difference? Practically speaking..?
How will you ensure no foul play for example?
the evangelical zeal and certainty of the righteous
STW can do many things end the causes of terrorism is not amongst them
Tragically naive and ,whilst I wish it would work, I had to laugh.
What do you hope to achieve JHJ...?
False flag operation.
STW can do many things end the causes of terrorism is not amongst them
Tragically naive and ,whilst I wish it would work, I had to laugh.
I can but try; been doing pretty well so far, even if I do say so myself 😉
Just need a bit more optimism Junky, we're getting there 😆
How will you ensure no foul play for example?
Six degrees of separation innit; people know people that know people etc...
1st step is getting things in the public consciousness, once people start talking about things, solutions can be found... a rider on here might be a butcher, but they know a journalist, who has the contacts, gets the scoop and essentially has me to thank
hooray!!
I can but try; been doing pretty well so far, even if I do say so myself
Not sure about that. What little I've read appears to be standard issue stuff.
Take a truth, mix with a half truth, and throw in some fantasy tosh. If the fantasy tosh gets questioned deflect with the truth element.
And if something gets well outed as utter pish, ignore and change the subject.
And if something gets well outed as utter pish, ignore and change the subject.
Apart from the fake BBC link, I'd like to to know what other utter pish I've supplied?