[Closed] "Muslim" terrorists attack French magazine in Paris

I am a peaceful, law abiding muslim who goes against every belief these terrorists hold.

Wow such straw men and its only page 2

I agree this is fascism, but fascism follows fascism, it's a cirlce to the bottom of a deep deep hole.

digga - Member
The elephant in the room is clear for anyone possessed of reason and logic to see; modern, tolerant, liberal, western society is incompatible with Islamic values. They do not want, let alone respect the freedoms we hold to. They have no interest in participating.

This^^ And the day after the Oil runs out in the middle east, i fully expect the boarders to be closed and those countries will simply return the middle ages, because, without oil money, they have nothing to trade with the "capitalist infidels" .

maxtorque - Member
digga - Member
The elephant in the room is clear for anyone possessed of reason and logic to see; modern, tolerant, liberal, western society is incompatible with Islamic values. They do not want, let alone respect the freedoms we hold to. They have no interest in participating.
This^^ And the day after the Oil runs out in the middle east, i fully expect the boarders to be closed and those countries will simply return the middle ages, because, without oil money, they have nothing to trade with the "capitalist infidels" .

But I get your point and would be surprised if any (literate, intelligent) person really thought all muslims held the exact same views as these nutters.

Lots of seemingly reasonably intelligent people still make crass generalisations about 'what Muslims think' etc.

Jon Snow nails it;
[i]
Paris:brutal clash of civilisations:Europe's belief in freedom of expression vs those for whom death is a weapon in defending their beliefs.[/i]

Jon Snow nails it;

[img] [/img]

I think jambalaya has a point in that until the moderate Muslim community gets some high profile publicity on some big "not in my name" type protests, then they will struggle to get the hard of thinking tabloid readers to understand that it is a radicalised minority carrying out these atrocities, and the "them and us"dance of death will continue.

I accept that some protests have occurred here and elsewhere, but haven't had the publicity they deserve.

seosamh77 - Member
If you count modern and tolerant western culture as stirring up civil war and worse in half the muslim world, then batter in

As Gandhi said though, an eye for an eye leaves us all blind. We need to move on.

I can accept that many Muslims are peaceful and tolerant, but they still perceive themselves as being apart, because that is what successful religions do and it is divisive and backward. The world would be infinitely better if we all simply regarded one another for what we actually are; humans.

until the moderate Muslim community gets some high profile publicity on some big "not in my name" type protests

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/campaigners-march-through-london-to-protest-against-isis-violence-against-iraqis-and-syrians-9673410.html

http://rt.com/news/189168-german-muslims-protest-isis/

http://www.wsj.com/articles/french-muslims-protest-against-islamic-state-1411755890

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/muslims-in-france-protest-against-extremism/

wwaswas - Member

"the shooters"

I really don't believe in capital punishment but "a really good kicking followed by life in solitary" is looking increasingly attractive

Nahhh, you think too much.

Lots of seemingly reasonably intelligent people still make crass generalisations about 'what Muslims think'

But yes there'll be some idiots who think they know what all muslims think
<haven't watched vid yet - no sound>

digga - Member
I can accept that many Muslims are peaceful and tolerant, but they still perceive themselves as being apart, because that is what successful religions do and it is divisive and backward. The world would be infinitely better if we all simply regarded one another for what we actually are; humans.

[i][b]IF[/i][/b] There were terrorists running around, who cleaved to the dogma of the Old Testament, then they would be equally dangerous.

My opinion still stands - lets ditch the dogma, put a line under the previous centuries religious nonsense, and try to concentrate on treating everyone as humans, irrespective of sex, age, race, nationality.

What was that clip of Reza Aslam supposed to contribute?

IF There were terrorists running around, who cleaved to the dogma of the Old Testament, then they would be equally dangerous.

[img] [/img]

Religious terrorists.

Would this be a bad time to suggest, that God doesn't actually exist, no matter which one you happen to "believe" in.............

[i]Would this be a bad time to suggest, that God doesn't actually exist, no matter which one you happen to "believe" in............. [/i]

I'm not sure that's relevant, people doing stuff 'in his name' don't have a very clear understanding of what their god wants at the best of times.

IF There were terrorists running around, who cleaved to the dogma of the Old Testament, then they would be equally dangerous.

Ever heard of the Lord's Resistance Army?

Surfer - if you really can't work it out then I can't help you.

IF There were terrorists running around, who cleaved to the dogma of the Old Testament, then they would be equally dangerous.

Google the Lords Resistance Army.

Edit: Bencooper - snap!

FWIW I'm no great proponent of Islam or any religion but I'm even less of a fan of ignorant prejudice.

What was that clip of Reza Aslam supposed to contribute?

wwaswas - did you copy that still from the vid on youtube? - it's proper grim, am surprised it's still up. They looked quite well trained as well.

having now watched it, if it was meant to highlight that CNN reporters have difficulty differentiating between what some muslim countries and what muslim people as a whole do/believe then it was quite apposite.

You really think it's just CNN reporters who have that problem? Plenty of evidence of it in this very thread.

You really think it's just CNN reporters who have that problem?

<edit>besides I said "literate, intelligent" people I have no idea if CNN reporters and all STWers fall into that category.
😉

wwaswas

The IRA were always 'Catholics' - we didn't invent another word for the religious group they came from and (to a large extent) claimed to represent?

Protestants were few and far between in the provisional IRA but there certainly were non Catholic members. Historically many of the leading figures in Irish republicanism were Protestants.

As Gandhi said though, an eye for an eye leaves us all blind. We need to move on

But in this case it wasn't really an eye for an eye. More like 12 deaths in return for a probably not very funny political cartoon.

jambalaya - Member

The Muslim world can reclaim their religion

1.4 billion muslims don't need to "reclaim" their religion because of the actions of a minority of nutters and scumbags.

Minority? How many are going to Syria again from each country? How many attacks worldwide?

Saying that- who represents Christians and who is stopping Christians from invading countries to overthrow that countries leader to put in place someone who they think would be better?

hora - Member

Minority? How many are going to Syria again from each country? How many attacks worldwide?

Is it more than 7,000,000,000 people?

[i]wwaswas - did you copy that still from the vid on youtube?[/i]

no, still was on twitter. Didn't realise it was from a video.

I wouldn't have watched it even if I'd seen a link, tbh.

ah, just as well then, don't it's not nice..

edit to add, i had no idea what was coming up..

extremists have hijacked your faith by announcing to the world they are taking over and whether you like it or you will be dragged in with them .

You mean Pegida or ISIL? Both?

This is from 2011. I certainly don't agree with all of her opinions (not least that we 'need' religion), but given events since then it is highly relevant:

Looking at some footage on the box, and the whole thing looks absolutely terrifying.

Malvern Rider - Member

extremists have hijacked your faith by announcing to the world they are taking over and whether you like it or you will be dragged in with them .

You mean Pegida or ISIL? Both?

The latter.

🙄

badnewz - Member

Looking at some footage on the box, and the whole thing looks absolutely terrifying.

It is just a matter of time when the same scenario happens here but they will not get far unless they can swim across like a fish.

To my mind, this tweet is a straightforward endorsement, if not incitement to terrorism.

[img] :large[/img]

Christ only knows how that'll be avenged?

😛 Careful!

[i]To my mind, this tweet is a straightforward endorsement, if not incitement to terrorism.[/i]

or is he just exercising his freedom of expression?

tbh, he has 23k followers 80% of whom are just interested in ridiculing what he says - I'd just ignore him and give him the obscurity he's so desperate to avoid.

digga - Member

To my mind, this tweet is a straightforward endorsement, if not incitement to terrorism.

Ya, he is increasing his personal profile again so wonder how much he get paid for publishing his views or has he got some sort of employment?
Hope he is not claiming benefits. 😯

@Grum

I actually thought there was some significance in you posting a clip of of that buffoon! If I could be bothered I would post links to Sam Harris making a fool of him, you know just for balance and all that though I doubt that is what you are after.

Lords resistance army

Oh FFS we are all living in mortal fear of them arent we

Is it more than 7,000,000,000 people?

ISIL is said to number upto 200,000 under arms, Al Shabab is in the low thousands but growing. Whose to say these figures wont grow?

How many 7/7 style attacks would it need before the UK had a radical change in policy? This is the scary part. The first step(s) would see regular and wholesale arming of UK Police. Maybe an additional force like some other countries have.

All this is 'what if' and upto 10yrs away but how many 7/7 style attacks would move politicians with their eyes on re-election towards a vote winner?

or is he just exercising his freedom of expression?

tbh, he has 23k followers 80% of whom are just interested in ridiculing what he says - I'd just ignore him and give him the obscurity he's so desperate to avoid.

Nail/head.

Of course he can say that. I, along with almost any other sane person, think he's wrong, but he can say it.

@Northwind see that tweet above from Choudary, yes they do need to reclaim it. Moderate Muslims need to fully understand their religion has been hijacked.

@grum/@ben, we'd have to Google Lords Resistance Army to find out anything about them because they are not in the media constantly beheading people, murdering hundreds of thousands of their own religion in sectarian violence or shooting cartoonists dead in central Paris.

Unusual that tweet. Anjem is normally a lot more thoughtful, and considered in his views. I always just regarded him as a comedy figure. A living, walking, breathing troll.

But actually, he's a fascist. Same as all extremists. Particularly muslamic ones. There seems to be IMHO, not just a simple hatred of democracy and the principle of free speech by him and his ilk, but a fundamental lack of understanding of what it actually means.

The fact that a man who spends his life gobbing off in the most inflammatory manner possible, then thinks he should dictate to people what they can and cannot say. Oh the ....

[img] [/img]

Of course he can say that. I, along with almost any other sane person, think he's wrong, but he can say it.

But is he wrong? It strikes me he is right - if you insult the Prophet, there is a chance someone will come and kill you.

You could say that his tweet is good advice.

We might ignore Choudray but there are plenty who listen to his preaching directly. If we ignore him he has further flexibility to continue his work. I don't even know the name of the radical who turned the lads from Portsmouth into Jihadists and sent them off to Syria but they didn't do it on their own.

You could say that his tweet is good advice.

It isn't advice. Its an overt threat.

He's a clever bastard. As that stops just short of instigation to violence, but the implication is pretty unambiguous

CaptainFlashheart - Member

Nail/head.

Of course he can say that. I, along with almost any other sane person, think he's wrong, but he can say it.

I wonder if he would be offended if he is called zombie maggot as a person not based on his believe or faith but rather him as an individual person. Freedom of speech etc without tarnishing his belief. i.e. separate him as a person from his faith. Zombie maggot? Yes? 😈

Ya, he is increasing his personal profile again so wonder how much he get paid for publishing his views or has he got some sort of employment?
Hope he is not claiming benefits

Only paranoid loons are living in mortal fear of Islamists - it smore dang
the questrion was

just for balance and all that though I doubt that is what you are after.

IF There were terrorists running around, who cleaved to the dogma of the Old Testament, then they would be equally dangerous.

But is he wrong? It strikes me he is right

You are allowed to fervently believe 650b wheels are the one true way of MTBing. I'm allowed to call bullshit on it and you are allowed to get upset about it. You are not allowed to physically assault me for saying it.

see that tweet above from Choudary, yes they do need to reclaim it.

That is like saying we need to reclaim stuff from all the other idiot tweeters or internet contributors or say reclaim stuff from brevik?
he is one man with idiotic views shared by very few just like most dicks on the internet.

Clearly I disagree with him but I dont see any implied threat in that tweet. He has just said what he thinks
He is wrong but he is entitled to hold any opinion he wishes.

if you insult the Prophet, there is a chance someone will come and kill you.

@grum/@ben, we'd have to Google Lords Resistance Army to find out anything about them because they are not in the media constantly beheading people, murdering hundreds of thousands of their own religion in sectarian violence or shooting cartoonists dead in central Paris.

Thousands of children enslaved or murdered by them, or recruited as child soldiers in the most gruesome rituals. So why aren't they in the media all the time? Perhaps because the victims are poor, African and black.

those that are a threat to freedom should be killed.

He is wrong but he is entitled to hold any opinion he wishes.

Only paranoid loons are living in mortal fear of Islamists

And satirists.

[i]those that are a threat to freedom should be killed. [/i]

those that would kill those that are a threat to freedom are a threat to freedom.

No he's not morally right. But his tweet is accurate - if you insult the Prophet there is a chance you will be attacked.
There was precedent for this so it surprises me the French magazine published the cartoons in the first place.

John Snows Blogpost in full

[i]Even for a hardened news man in a hardened newsroom the mass shooting at the French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo is a ferociously shocking moment.

We know at least 12 are dead, five are critically wounded and others beside. And those numbers will doubtless change during the day.

It happens at a very tender moment for European politics, at a tender moment for the Islamic world. Wracked with violence from northern Nigeria all the way to ****stan by radical action and bloodletting.

Coming so close on the heels of the massacre of schoolchildren at their desks in a ****stani school it is a harrowing repetition of man's inhumanity to man.

Communal tensions

In Europe, with anti-immigrant parties on the move and demonstrations in Germany this is an event that will do nothing to heal communal tensions and wounds.

It is an event which calls for leadership which so many crave for in so many different European democracies. David Cameron and Angela Merkel - each with their own domestic communal difficulties to wrestle with - now find themselves with an item on their agenda which in immediate terms transcends any other business they have to conduct.

Make no mistake, this is a landmark moment in the affairs of man. And it is hard in this moment to predict where it will go. But it undoubtedly calls for restraint and for sober assessment of the factors involved.[/i]

sadly that attitude has created this mess.

And satirists.

He is wrong but he is entitled to hold any opinion he wishes..
sadly that attitude has created this mess.

thread just took a (even more) sinister turn

those that would kill those that are a threat to freedom are a threat to freedom.

yes just like all those people that killed NAZI'S IN WW2!

jambalaya - Member

Ya, he is increasing his personal profile again so wonder how much he get paid for publishing his views or has he got some sort of employment?
Hope he is not claiming benefits

I'd expect he is funded by charitable donations to a religious charity or via direct cash payments from supports

Really ... that's good income that just by expressing some views ... 😯

(in the meantime thinking of world domination by educating people with Dear Leader zombie maggot faith so to get donation to have legitimate orgies ... unlike some high profile people)

Only paranoid loons are living in mortal fear of Islamists

By the way the journalists at the magazine had full time police protection, the terrorists shot the two police guarding the building first.

you cant reason with people that want to kill you because you exist, get over it people!

The LRA have committed terrible acts but they are localised and dwindling in number.
If you think they are of equal danger and significance then you are misguided.

so you don't think people should be allowed to hold certain opinions you disagree with?
thread just took a (even more) sinister turn

yes i believe if you think that gay people should be killed then you yourself should be killed..

So how do we define what a 'threat to freedom' is then?

I assumed he was talking about the UK re the lords resistance army as I was in the reply. Again fair point

Only paranoid loons are living in mortal fear of Islamists

The Madrid bombings - when these happened for the first time I could chose any seat I wanted to all week on the train commute into Victoria station.

Who knows when the next tube attack will be?

Who knows if we will have a Kenyan-mall style attack on the Trafford or Bluewater shopping centres?

Voters are the people that will ultimately sway the leaders. Fear is only a few steps away for all with more attacks. Especially election year.

by freedom ,most people really mean the western society!

beards?

yes i believe if you think that gay people should be killed then you yourself should be killed..

yes i believe if you think that gay people should be killed then you yourself should be killed..

[i]by freedom ,most people really mean the western society! [/i]

So anyone who thinks that reform of gun law in the US might be a good idea is a threat to freedom?

The LRA have committed terrible acts but they are localised and dwindling in number.
If you think they are of equal danger and significance then you are misguided.

I don't think that - but they're a good example of why religion isn't the problem here.

I disagree and now want to kill you
Can you see the wee flaw in your plan now?

Only paranoid loons are living in mortal fear of Islamists

They are using AK47 while I have my Borneo machetes of course I am paranoid ... I would like to have Mr SIG556 and Mr Benelli M4 with Mr Glock 27 (decided 27 is better than 29) beside me to calm me down. 😈

So anyone who thinks that reform of gun law in the US might be a good idea is a threat to freedom?

Yeah, beards!

(Hang on I haven't shaved for a bit)

No, not beards.

Sandals?

(incidentally I now have to kill you for suggesting beards)