music class at elementary school

No, I don't think you're being miserable. Forcing kids to play instruments they have no interest in is only going to put them off learning. If you can't talk the school round, sounds like you're going to have to pay for private drum lessons. And hire the cheapest woodwind option for school.

I’m genuinely interested to know what the positives are surrounding music class if you have to choose a single archaic instrument?

Music helps less academic kids try new things, teaches the importance of practice and persistence, playing in a group improves communication and teamwork skills.

My kids (mainly) play flute, so pretty archaic. They've made amazing friends, can do things I've never managed, travelled around the UK and Europe, raised money for charities and earned money playing semi pro. Eldest is now studying music at Cambridge.

Imagine a world with no music.

My 9yo is in a slightly similar situation in that she was allowed to apply to learn an instrument this year. I don't remember there being any choice in instrument but she was accepted and issued a viola. Didn't have to pay though, that would be somewhat exclusionary.

Sounds like you're in America so not really sure what your setup is there. How much sway does your parents committee have, either for or against the status quo? Are there any instruments that would help their learning of the drums from a theory point of view? Is the teacher the miserable git that doesn't realise there is a world beyond marching bands?

But no, it doesn't sound like you're being unreasonable. I don't have a shred of musical ability but if your boy wants to learn I can understand your frustration.

Is there an instrument more archaic than a drum? 🙂

Is there an instrument more archaic than a drum? 🙂

Look what you made me do.

Forcing you to pay for what is effectively a mandatory lesson is not acceptable.

Paying for your kids to learn to play if they are interested is fine. If they get any good and you continue to support them as they progress in terms of lessons, events, equipment will run into thousands of pounds. Its your kids personal development and there is a lot to said for playing 'archaic' instruments, the kids may get a lot of social interaction from it, learn discipline and focus, build self confidence.

At the end of the day there's three types of parents, those that are prepared to pay to enhance their kids upbringing, those that are too tight and narrow minded to splash the cash and those that genuinely have no disposable income to spare. Which one are you? Sorry if thats a bit harsh but I get a bit miffed when people I know can afford it quibble over a few hundred quid for a school activity. The kids that get really good at something, be it dance, music, sport cost their parents 10s of thousands, unfortunately in our society innate ability isn't enough, it costs as well.

Music, at least when I was at school was very focused around orchestral type stuff. It’s easy to throw 15 kids with violins together and produce something decent. Lots of the scores played are written for that. I can’t imagine there is much that caters for 5 kids on drums, 7 guitar etc.

For us, music branched out way more at A levels, more variety, more modern stuff, writing your own music etc.

If there’s interest in music at school (or it’s a requirement) I’d be picking an instrument that is vaguely interesting and then doing private lessons outside school for something you actually want to learn.

Plenty of great musicians started out on a different instrument then switched to something less archaic once they'd got the basics. Shared instruments provided by schools often are not in good condition, owning your own kit, even if it's not that good, gives you more control.

I say this every time somebody posts on STW about learning drums: buy a pad, a pair of sicks and a book of rudiments. Once you can play the rudiments translating these to a full kit takes little time.

Playing music brings cognative and physical benefits. Doesn't have to be lessons or structured even, but it's something you have to engage with to get anywhere.

For the love of God don't let any child who isn't blessed with either relative pitch or perfect pitch play an unfretted stringed instrument. I was lucky, mine played guitar and keyboards, but randomly issuing a child with a viola is inhumane...... I have sat through far too many school recitals and learnt that you can't completely block the sound out. For balance, if they can get the intonation right it's a beautiful thing, and playing strings in an ensemble is a fantastic way to learn an instrument.

There are differences in the way that music is taught because the LEA invariably provides it. If there's no drum tuition offered it's probably because they don't have the tutor or practice rooms to do it with a useable drum kit (not a knackered one).

Wordnumb is right, get a pad and rudiments to do at home ; get something that he can stand to keep doing at school because he will learn some theory and basic sight reading, bass would be a good choice as drummers who understand basslines are going to be better all-round players

there is a lot to said for playing ‘archaic’ instruments

That's essentially my question though
Is there genuinely?
Schools used to teach students to use typewriters, schools now teach coding.
There's no reason in my mind that the benefits of music class shouldn't evolve in the same way and wouldn't kids have more benefit from those social interaction/discipline/building/ self confidence pieces with drum pads, loopers, keyboards etc that are (more) relevant in today's music production.

Making them rent to own or buy a specific wind instrument is like saying ok kids, p.e. this year.. here's your sport, you have to do this and only this all year, oh and you'll need to go and buy a bow, (no, not a bent piece of maple from the forest, a really fancy one) , arrows and a target.

All this for the torture of the Christmas concert. as a group you'll ultimately sound awful but it's ok, the parents will smile and clap anyway and you can be proud that you paid enough for a season of [insert extracurricular activity here] to be this frustrated.

Stumpyjohn, I'm a mix of those 3 types, which I guess means there's probably many more than 3.
I'm largely an enabler. If my kids want to try something, I'm game - if we can afford it. I'm also a realist in that I know that if #2 doesn't like something after trying it, or has a negative experience no matter how long he's been doing it or how good he is, then he's done, thats it, no reasoning or encouragement will break him free from those mental chains. That means that setting him up for failure is a poor choice..he already knows what his perception of failure looks like and "it's ok, try again", "try harder" or "it doesn't matter if you think you suck" doesn't seem to be a solution.. and no, I'm not an 'everybody gets a medal' type either
I'm also tight in that I prefer not to start fires with bank notes.
Narrow minded? Most likely 😉

it’s a bit disappointing that the school doesn’t offer more to prospective band members.

assuming that the finances are available, if you have to pay for external lessons to get in the school band, bin off the school band and pay for drum lessons.

some music teaching places have their own bands that students can join.

Thump was allocated euphonium at primary school from a music specialist.
Now plays tuba at high school and is in the Stirling schools' orchestra.
So it can work out OK.

It does get a lot better in high school though and they get to try all the instruments
Thud loves music technology - even asked to sell his PS5 so he get an imac for mixing.
Yay!

I applied for the clarinet at hight school in first year- application rejected.

At 5"8 in second year the head of music dropped some heavy hints I should apply for double bass.

I was loaned a double bass and got a free hours lesson every week. Initially with another kid but solo when they dropped out.

My folks couldn't afford a double bass. I got a loan of a magnificent one from the local council for 4 years. I'm 43 now and I doubt I've ever been in a room with an instrument so awesome since.

I was given bus tokens to get to orchestras after school by the school.

I didn't have to pay to play in orchestra, string orchestra, secondary orchestra, celdith band, strashspey and reel society,jazz band or guitar group.

I thought all of this was completely normal. Then I left Edinburgh and started teaching in Nottingham. I still feel lucky every time I walk past a mucic room. (Every day as a teacher)

Dear Edinburgh city council, thanks for the music. It was awesome! Thanks for introducing me to loads of fun people 😃

@bearback if you can fund it it might be the shining memory for your kids double bass is for me. I'm off to play some guitar now mostly built on the back of the skills my double bass teacher taught me 20 years ago.

I play guitar now, double basses are totally impossible when you can't drive!

Long time ago I used to see this guy play double bass in various small groups around town. The thing was held together by gaffa tape and string. Sounded awesome, had this natural distortion like nothing I've heard since.

Both my kids played drums in primary school, I don't actually know what elementary school is. sounds American.

They were private lessons though and they didn't really have a music class, or a school band. They also played recorder and ukulele free in school.

Son now plays guitar at secondary school, private lessons again though.

There’s no reason in my mind that the benefits of music class shouldn’t evolve in the same way and wouldn’t kids have more benefit from those social interaction/discipline/building/ self confidence pieces with drum pads, loopers, keyboards etc that are (more) relevant in today’s music production.

you seem to have an extremely narrow view of all the things learning a musical instrument can offer. All those things you list I benighted from as a result of learning the saxophone. I do however agree that it shouldn’t be compulsory especially when it comes to having to buy an instrument.

I’m genuinely interested to know what the positives are surrounding music class if you have to choose a single archaic instrument?

None of those instruments are ‘archaic’, really, any more than guitar or bass, which are just developments of much older stringed instruments. Certainly the flute/whistle are probably among the earliest along with general percussion, but there are plenty of musicians who started on one then moved to something different just to fit into what a band needed; Ian Anderson took up the flute with Jethro Tull, for example, and it became an iconic part of the band’s sound and look.
Just learning to play music in a structured manner will give a foundation for moving on to other instruments - knowing how to read music helps, although there are plenty of professional musicians who’ve never learned.
I can think of at least one famous drummer who’s now at least as well known as the singer and guitarist with a major band.

Totally accept my narrow view, but I'm still stuck on how, at primary school age, there's a significant extended benefit to learning to read and produce musical notes on a $500 clarinet over a $10 recorder, or by using an aging keyboard that could've been in the school for decades.
fwiw, I had private lessons on piano for a few years (age11-14 i think) and a stint on the guitar. Did recently have a go with yousician when trying to get my eldest motivated to crack on with his electric guitar learning for his school compulsory music but haven't touched the piano since.
Perhaps I'm projecting my negativity as for me, it took away from my time from football/cricket/squash/tennis/lacrosse/tabletennis etc which I have certainly had infinitely more life benefit from.

is like saying ok kids, p.e. this year.. here’s your sport, you have to do this and only this all year, oh and you’ll need to go and buy a bow, (no, not a bent piece of maple from the forest, a really fancy one) , arrows and a target.

Plenty of kids are expected to have proper football/rugby boots, shin pads/mouth guards, and I know kids on bursaries at private schools who have to turn up with tennis racquets, hockey sticks and cricket kit.

It's not right or fair but it happens.

And I'll go back to the point that films would be pretty shit if no one learnt to play archaic instruments. All those amazing scores...gone.