[Closed] Murder or reasonable force?

Well with that sentence alone you have condemned yourself as the lowest of the bottom feeders 🙂

does your wife/partner know that you would leave them alone to the mercy of a possibly armed intruder ?

I am truly humbled now…

not.

I hadn't imagined that a lack of ego was one of your problems.

If you had a wife upstairs with a possible intruder upstairs and you were also 38 and fit and could disable the intruder in front of you by other means, then ok, but if you are 78 the possibilities to disable the intruder in front of you so you could get to your wife are reduced.

And even if you were 38 it might not also be worth taking the risk that a less aggressive approach would work, why do the burglar any favours when your wife is possibly at risk ?

but if you are 78 the possibilities to disable the intruder in front of you so you could get to your wife are reduced.

Although not impossible, as this case clearly shows!

I'm obviously a terrible person as I am of the opinion that you break in to someones house, all bets are off and your human rights go out the window.

I can manage to keep myself from breaking in to peoples houses so surely other folk should be able to........and from what I understand, most of the time they won't just leave apologising for the inconvenience if you disturb them doing their job

I’m obviously a terrible person as I am of the opinion that you break in to someones house, all bets are off and your human rights go out the window.

I'm of the opinion that any motorist exceeding the speed limit should be executed by firing squad.

Vincent was being hunted by police after a distraction burglary in which a man in his 70s was targeted in Farningham, Kent in November last year.

Not his first time, gladly it was his last. good riddance to a stain on the human dna.

I'm sure neither the armchair Charles Bronsons or the armchair Ghandis would react exactly as they think.

I know I wouldn't be pondering legal principles or human rights if someone broke into my house. I don't know for sure what I would do TBH, but I tend to lose my rag dramatically when I get close passed on the bike, so I suspect adrenaline would take over and I'd be quite aggressive - for better or worse.

There are obviously many on here who thought Judge Dredd was a documentary.

Ive been burgled by two blokes with hammers, luckly we were out but 18 months on I still freak out regularly at night when I hear sounds outside the house

the law should be changed so their rights are suspended when they are knowingly committing a crime.  you shouldn' have to worry that you will end up in jail trying to protect your own family and property

So what do you do, just stand there and watch them do anything and everything to you and your family?Maybe help them carry out the telly? What if kids are in the house? As if the armchair pacifists on here wouldn’t try to do anything if people came barging into their homes shouting threats.

You miss my point, I was commenting on your murder of the English language which as we all know is seen as a capital crime by many on here. My thoughts on this case as it stands  is that I don't have enough knowledge of it currently to make a judgement.

does your wife/partner know that you would leave them alone to the mercy of a possibly armed intruder ?

Yes they do but they are greatly comforted by the knowledge that the inscription on their gravestone will be grammatically correct. 🙂

If you had a wife upstairs

One of the great opening lines.

Based on the story as reported, the arrest seems inappropriate to me. I see no reason to suspect an offence has been committed. On the other hand I haven't seen the state of the corpse, if it has a hundred stab wounds and the skull's been repeatedly stamped on then I might change my mind.

The guy has been bailed which does make it seem more likely that the police are just following due process and, if the descriptions of the incident are true, we'll eventually see any charges dropped.

Based on the story as reported, the arrest seems inappropriate to me. I see no reason to suspect an offence has been committed.

I answered this on the previous page.  Someone has been killed so they have to investigate it, and in order to question the suspect they have to arrest him.  There's no "appropriate" about it, it's due process.

Based on the story as reported, the arrest seems inappropriate to me

The problem though is it is his story. The police cant just take his word for it hence the arrest whilst they investigate it.

If true then chances of it going to court are pretty much zero.

People acting in self defence are protected under the law. It would only be if it doesnt look like self defence or is excessive that it becomes a problem.

I’m not sure what I’d do under the circumstances, hopefully it will never happen. In my warped little mind I’d like to think I’d choke the bugger out. Upon awaking he would find himself wearing one of those collars from Total Recall or Wedlock. If he attempted any aggressive action or thought or stopped performing household chores for longer than 3.6 minutes.......

BOOM! Goodbye head!

you shouldn’ have to worry that you will end up in jail trying to protect your own family and property

You don't have to worry, because you won't.

in order to question the suspect they have to arrest him

Do they though? What happened to interviewing under caution? How about "helping the police with their enquiries"? Though tbh the latter covers a multitude of possible scenarios from a friendly chat to repeatedly falling down the stairs until you remember you're guilty of being Irish in a public place.

Do they though? What happened to interviewing under caution? How about “helping the police with their enquiries”?

Both of those scenarios involve Voluntary Attendance at the police station to be interviewed, and the “suspect” could just get up and leave any time they wanted to.

Personally, I think if someone has just ended another persons life, under any circumstances, attendance at the interview should be mandatory rather than voluntary.

And it seems like police standard procedure agrees.

If it were me I'd be happier being arrested and taken to a station for questioning than being questioned at home at the scene. I'd have a solicitor with me before saying anything and the converstaion should at least be recorded.

I am not a lawyer but aiui in order to arrest someone the police have to have reasonable grounds to suspect an offence has been committed, and that the arrestee has committed it. Wanting to question someone does not in itself provide grounds for arrest. In the circumstances, the presence of a corpse doesn’t really seem that suspicious to me. Though as I said before, I haven’t seen the body.

I am not a lawyer but aiui in order to arrest someone the police have to have reasonable grounds to suspect an offence has been committed, and that the arrestee has committed it. Wanting to question someone does not in itself provide grounds for arrest. In the circumstances etc. etc

luckily we had someone who is a Lawyer point out, one page1, that this is always what happens, and it’s totally standard practice to arrest in these situations.

So we don’t really need to examine the circumstances too closely.

There was reference to the 'Burgler' in inverted commas previously, surely they actually have to make it out of the house with some goodies to achieve burgler status? Aren't they more of an uninvited guest at this point? Like my booze sodden auntie turning up on Boxing day, even she doesn't deserve a sound stabbing.

Vincent was also placed on Kent Police's 'most wanted' list over another burglary, this time in Gravesend, in 2013.

I starting to doubt what I heard, but I'm sure I just heard on the local news Vincent's cousin describe him as a lovely bloke. Obviously in that case the Guiness fueled murderous grandad should go down for good.

Such a top bloke, lovely man, he'd rob anybody's house for me.

The interview with the dead guy's cousin on R4 PM yesterday was exactly what had previously been predicted on this thread.

I couldn't listen to it without a wry smile.

I applauded the cousin's bravery in going on the radio, but I found it hard to see the dead bloke as a victim, as she did.

Well that depends on what sort of life people have had and how much that has a bearing on how they turned out/what things they did.

A child of a single mother alcoholic who looked after themselves from the age of 8 and got into groups which led to a life of crime would to me be seen as a victim.  One of those burglars that a lot of people on this thread seem more than happy to kill with their own hands could be that person.

kerley

Well that depends on what sort of life people have had and how much that has a bearing on how they turned out/what things they did.

A child of a single mother alcoholic who looked after themselves from the age of 8 and got into groups which led to a life of crime would to me be seen as a victim.

True, but that doesn't change the fact that unless you work for emergency services you probably won't want to get on the wrong end of such a person. If you're awakened by a disturbance in the middle of the night and you go downstairs and catch someone in the process of robbing you, protecting your family should be your main goal. Sympathy in that situation is going to get you further victimised/killed.

That's not to advocate murdering people with impunity, but the truth is some people are violent degenerate assholes / broken people and if you encounter a stranger in your home at night without invitation you have no way of gauging the limits of their intentions.

She said he was a nice man, loved his kids, and the 78 year old was wrong to have stabbed him. I don't condone arbitrary killing of folk, but I do think he couldn't have been that nice, breaking into pensioners homes tooled up with a mate.

Looks like he is from a family of scumbags. Lots of previous form for conning and robbing old folk. Seems like it's the family business, it may be a loss to them but it's societies gain.

She said he was a good father and a good son.

Gonna have to agree to disagree there.  This is not a man who had a bad run of luck, got hooked on drugs and stole a couple of bikes or car stereos to fund his habit while trying to turn his life around. It was a long series of crimes against vulnerable people.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/05/burglar-killed-pensioners-home-wanted-previous-robbery/

How can you be a good father when that's the example you're setting?

Man breaks into your house to steal from you and he’s armed. Struggle tales place and he ends up dead. Good news story I’d say. Moral is don’t break into people’s homes.

There's an interesting Secret Barrister blog post from yesterday if anyone wants a good overview of the law surrounding self defence in this case.-  https://thesecretbarrister.com/2018/04/05/bashing-burglars-and-the-law-of-self-defence/

How can you be a good father when that’s the example you’re setting?

Who says he is setting it as an example/  Maybe his kids don't know anything about it and all they know is their dad spends time with them, develops them, is interested in them etc,.

My dad was a good father but I wouldn't know if he did any burglaries (he didn't get caught if he did)

Well that depends on what sort of life people have had and how much that has a bearing on how they turned out/what things they did.

A child of a single mother alcoholic who looked after themselves from the age of 8 and got into groups which led to a life of crime would to me be seen as a victim.  One of those burglars that a lot of people on this thread seem more than happy to kill with their own hands could be that person.

This doesn’t wash with me. I had what many would describe as a pretty shitty upbringing and one thing  I detest is people who use that as an excuse to be an utter dick. I’ve met (and grown up with) plenty of them. You’re responsible for your own actions.

It appears to me that the guy was a career criminal. Living that life has inherent risks attached to it. He gambled, he lost.

This doesn’t wash with me. I had what many would describe as a pretty shitty upbringing and one thing  I detest is people who use that as an excuse to be an utter dick. I’ve met (and grown up with) plenty of them. You’re responsible for your own actions.

It appears to me that the guy was a career criminal. Living that life has inherent risks attached to it. He gambled, he lost.

^^^^^ this x 1000000%

forgive the goodwin but there is a great documentary on the children of senior Nazis - some of whom were brought up in concentration camps [ unaware of what was going on] and they struggled to reconcile the wonderful father  with the Nazi scumbag. It is possible to be reprehensible and a good father

You’re responsible for your own actions.

You are going to have to explain why socio-economic factors are so strongly linked to crime. What is your explanation?

Some of you really need to read the parable of the sower

<span class="text Matt-13-1">That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake.</span><span id="en-NIV-23542" class="text Matt-13-2"><sup class="versenum">2 </sup>Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore.</span> <span id="en-NIV-23543" class="text Matt-13-3"><sup class="versenum">3 </sup>Then he told them many things in parables, saying: <span class="woj">“A farmer went out to sow his seed.</span></span> <span id="en-NIV-23544" class="text Matt-13-4"><span class="woj"><sup class="versenum">4 </sup>As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up.</span></span> <span id="en-NIV-23545" class="text Matt-13-5"><span class="woj"><sup class="versenum">5 </sup>Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow.</span></span> <span id="en-NIV-23546" class="text Matt-13-6"><span class="woj"><sup class="versenum">6 </sup>But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root.</span></span> <span id="en-NIV-23547" class="text Matt-13-7"><span class="woj"><sup class="versenum">7 </sup>Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants.</span></span> <span id="en-NIV-23548" class="text Matt-13-8"><span class="woj"><sup class="versenum">8 </sup>Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.</span></span> <span id="en-NIV-23549" class="text Matt-13-9"><span class="woj"><sup class="versenum">9 </sup>Whoever has ears, let them hear.”</span></span>

You are blaming the seed  rather than seeing the wider picture. Yes I grew up in a poor area and i assure you more of my  friends ended up criminals than   the children who went to Eton.

Its simplistic to ignore all factors involved.

Thank God for the Secret Barrister - but obviously that piece only explains the legal situation, and doesn't help justify certain personal opinions.

You are going to have to explain why socio-economic factors are so strongly linked to crime. What is your explanation?

Some people refuse to be responsible for themselves. See rule number one ‘Don’t be a dick”

I’m not disputing the fact he could have been a decent father to his kids. He lived a life of crime and paid the ultimate price for doing so. He chose a certain life and paid for that choice.

I too have plenty of old acquaintances who are now dead, serving time or have served time. Considering my socio-economic background why aren’t I a criminal. You’ll need to explain that?

JUNKYARD

You are going to have to explain why socio-economic factors are so strongly linked to crime. What is your explanation?

Some of you really need to read the parable of the sower

<span class=”text Matt-13-1″>That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake.</span><span id=”en-NIV-23542″ class=”text Matt-13-2″><sup class=”versenum”>2 </sup>Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore.</span> <span id=”en-NIV-23543″ class=”text Matt-13-3″><sup class=”versenum”>3 </sup>Then he told them many things in parables, saying: <span class=”woj”>“A farmer went out to sow his seed.</span></span> <span id=”en-NIV-23544″ class=”text Matt-13-4″><span class=”woj”><sup class=”versenum”>4 </sup>As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up.</span></span> <span id=”en-NIV-23545″ class=”text Matt-13-5″><span class=”woj”><sup class=”versenum”>5 </sup>Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow.</span></span> <span id=”en-NIV-23546″ class=”text Matt-13-6″><span class=”woj”><sup class=”versenum”>6 </sup>But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root.</span></span> <span id=”en-NIV-23547″ class=”text Matt-13-7″><span class=”woj”><sup class=”versenum”>7 </sup>Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants.</span></span> <span id=”en-NIV-23548″ class=”text Matt-13-8″><span class=”woj”><sup class=”versenum”>8 </sup>Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.</span></span> <span id=”en-NIV-23549″ class=”text Matt-13-9″><span class=”woj”><sup class=”versenum”>9 </sup>Whoever has ears, let them hear.”</span></span>

You are blaming the seed  rather than seeing the wider picture. Yes I grew up in a poor area and i assure you more of my  friends ended up criminals than   the children who went to Eton.

Its simplistic to ignore all factors involved.

And how is this going to effect your decision making when you encounter a complete stranger in your house in the middle of the night who's motives are criminal at best?

kerley

Who says he is setting it as an example/ Maybe his kids don’t know anything about it and all they know is their dad spends time with them, develops them, is interested in them etc,.

My dad was a good father but I wouldn’t know if he did any burglaries (he didn’t get caught if he did)

I totally disagree with that. A huge part of being a good father is setting yourself as an example.

Going to work every day or working hard to find a job.
Following the law.
Being kind to people.

Those things are tricky to demonstrate when you repeatedly get caught for stealing large sums from vulnerable people and go to jail, do it again when you get out, and then (while already being publicised as a wanted man) getting stabbed to death by somebody defending their home which you were invading.

If he'd gone to jail then come out and gone straight, and used it as a life lesson for his kids "don't be an idiot like I was". Yeah sure, he could be a great dad. But he didn't, so he's not.

Some people refuse to be responsible for themselves.

And some people refuse to recognise how their relatively advantageous background has benefited them and made life easier for them.

how is this going to effect your decision making when you encounter a complete stranger in your house in the middle of the night who’s motives are criminal at best?

WHAT ?we were discussing  what were the factors likely to lead to someone being a criminal you have  completely missed the point of the post- very odd as others got the point.

Considering my socio-economic background why aren’t I a criminal. You’ll need to explain that?

Socio -economic factors are a cause, and as you note,  it interacts with other factors. It alone is not a cause but it cannot be ignored either- i never said anyone in poverty ends up a criminal but statistically it is much more likely than those born into wealth.

Basically it is much harder for the seed that falls on the stony ground to thrive. Some of us will, i did you did but not all of us  did. Do you think if we all swapped to massively wealthy estates and the lap of luxury those that failed would have all had exactly the same outcomes?  If you do not you have to accept that socio economic aspects are factors and al we can do is discuss the extent.

i never said anyone in poverty ends up a criminal but statistically it is much more likely than those born into wealth.

I think it's possible to both see the wider picture and not mourn an utter toerag like this.

Isn't it?

junkyard

how is this going to effect your decision making when you encounter a complete stranger in your house in the middle of the night who’s motives are criminal at best?

WHAT ?we were discussing  what were the factors likely to lead to someone being a criminal you have  completely missed the point of the post- very odd as others got the point.

Yes yes, everyone's blown away by the profundity of your analysis re the socio-economic factors that lead to criminality. You're amazing, erudite, empathetic and you come from the hood. We see that. However, since the thread is about the actions of a home owner, in the heat of the moment, and the thread is called "Murder or reasonable force?" it's amazing that you cannot tie the two aspects together and consider that your SJW waffle is irrelevant to the victim of a crime while that crime is being perpetrated upon them.  It's very odd as others can see that one is relevant to the other.

Or are you reverting to your meta deconstructionist troll character where you're not concerned with making coherent points or representing you own views honestly?

And some people refuse to recognise how their relatively advantageous background has benefited them and made life easier for them.

If if that was aimed directly at me then you couldn’t be further from the mark to be honest.

Do you think if we all swapped to massively wealthy estates and the lap of luxury those that failed would have all had exactly the same outcomes?

Not all no, but I truly believe some people are just wrong uns and would commit crime regardless. It would be interesting as an experiment though. Provide a bunch of criminals with a nice life, see how many thrive and how many carry on as before.

You also have to factor in that immorality committed by the rich and powerful is often legalised, or at best requires individuals to sue rather than being dealt with by the state criminal system.

I think it’s possible to both see the wider picture and not mourn an utter toerag like this.

Isn’t it?

Erm... this is the internet, 'pick a side, be a dick about it'

I think it’s possible to both see the wider picture and not mourn an utter toerag like this.

Isn’t it?

You could well say the world is a better place without him in it  but the world would be much better still if he hadn't ending up being the way he was.

I’ve sympathy for the family, they’ve lost a husband & father, but I’ve SFA all for him.

Can’t do the time? Don’t do the crime..

A career criminal who came to an appropriate end. Breaking into a pensioners home? Scum, didn’t deserve to live.

The socio blah blah I’m not getting into.

If if that was aimed directly at me then you couldn’t be further from the mark to be honest.

No it wasn't sorry, I don't know your circumstances obviously. I see it all the time though. Very easy for people to see themselves as 'self-made' and discount all the help they have received.

It’s heartbreaking that society creates an environment where someone felt they had little or no recourse other than being a career criminal - but, that’s where my sympathy ends.

You could well say the world is a better place without him in it  but the world would be much better still if he hadn’t ending up being the way he was.

This.

No it wasn’t sorry

No problem 👍🏼

It’s heartbreaking that society creates an environment where someone felt they had little or no recourse other than being a career criminal

Was it society’s fault or did he choose that path? I don’t know either way, but I don’t believe it’s thst simple.

Or are you reverting to your meta deconstructionist troll character where you’re not concerned with making coherent points or representing you own views honestly?

all that ad hom, to garner a  response, and then you call me a troll.

Some days I just love the internet and the amazing , weird and strange characters it presents.

Wow, that Telegraph article is a depressing read.

[i]Junkyard wrote:[/i]

You are blaming the seed  rather than seeing the wider picture. Yes I grew up in a poor area and i assure you more of my  friends ended up criminals than   the children who went to Eton.

The kids who went to Eton just ended up being the sort of criminals who the government bailed out when it went all wrong for them. 👿

Not a totally facetious point - given sufficient opportunity, amoral scumbags don't have to go round burgling people's houses to make a living.

given sufficient opportunity, amoral scumbags don’t have to go round burgling people’s houses to make a living.

Give a man a fish...

Give a man a bank...

It would be interesting as an experiment though. Provide a bunch of criminals with a nice life, see how many thrive and how many carry on as before.

You have missed the point.  They would not become criminals in the first place.  They need a nice life from birth not after it has already gone wrong

Not all no, but I truly believe some people are just wrong uns and would commit crime regardless. It would be interesting as an experiment though. Provide a bunch of criminals with a nice life, see how many thrive and how many carry on as before.

I think current thinking is that a lot of the damage is done during pretty early development. By the time people reach even teenage years a lot of attitudes and behaviours are firmly entrenched and it becomes very difficult to change them.

I’d agree that poorer people are more likely to commit violent crime like robbery or burglary but then richer people are way more likely to commit financial, fraudulent/confidence crimes etc. Some people would just rather take than earn legally, I don’t think their background particularly matters.

Hypothesis;  there's also a socio economic pyramid, there are more 'poor' people, and 'poor' people are more likely to commit crimes like robbery or burglary than white collar crimes.... there are less people at the top of the pyramid and the crimes they're more likely to commit are siphoning money off pension funds, fraud, ponsi schemes, etc. And because the base is wider than the apex there will be more robbers than pension fraudsters.

I wonder what the numbers are proportionally - once corrected for total numbers how much more likely are you to follow a life of crime just because you were born on the wrong side of the tracks?

You have missed the point.  They would not become criminals in the first place.  They need a nice life from birth not after it has already gone wrong

By extension of that thinking no prisoner should ever be let back in to society as your statement indicates they will reoffend and can’t b rehabilitated as their life has already gone wrong.

As already pointed out there is no shortage of criminality further up the socio-economic chain, just different crimes committed.

I think my last post came across badly. I find this whole thread )and the different opinions contained within it) fascinating.

Do some people view certain, or indeed all, criminals as victims of circumstance or upbringing? Genuinely curious to know. I’m a big believer in taking charge of your own life, although I know how easy it can be to try and blame everything and everyone else other than yourself for how life turns out. As somebody stated earlier behavioural patterns can be extremely hard to break.

Anybody have recommended reading on the subject?

I’m a big believer in taking charge of your own life

I think the thing that's hard to reconcile is recognising that circumstances give certain people a much better start in life, while not taking away personal responsibility. Obviously some people can overcome very trying upbringings, and that should be commended.

I can see how the liberal mindset of 'blaming society' can be perceived as meaning people don't have to accept responsibility, but I feel like we should come at the issue from both angles. Seems to not be possible in our weird black and white world.

Do some people view certain, or indeed all, criminals as victims of circumstance or upbringing?

Its not as simple as an either or and if anyone knew what led to all criminal behaviour we would be able to eradicate it. All we know are what are the  factors that exacerbates the risk. For example if you look at the  incarceration rates of LAC [ looked after children - ie those brought up in care] and compare there incarcerations rates with the normal population then its hard to argue that the environment does not provide additional risk factors for these people. Of course not all of them end up in prison so  there are also other factors at work- some see this as "personal responsibility or a moral compass"  hence we can have this debate endlessly

Some people are just bad, some are made bad by their environment, some are down on their luck, some are just ****ers etc. There is no one simple cause *[ for all criminals] and the debate is more nuanced than a STW thread could cope with.

* i know a guy whose father solved every single issue with fights/violence and  when old enough involved his kids in these fights [ started about 15 as he was a big lad]. the  child ended up in prison, as an adult, for a variety of violence offences. Was this inevitable ? Probably not quite inevitable but was it much more likely than the father who did not do this to his child.

Old guy has just been released

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43676359

With what we know that seems the right result. But for most people,  taking a life in almost any circumstance is no small thing. I hope he doesn't struggle with what happend and can get on with his own life without any negative side affects.

Arise Sir Osborn-Brooks

lets hope he gets all the help he requires.

Agreed taxi..

I had a really really good mate at school. We did a bit of partying with others once we reached the 17 ish mark. He was adopted as a baby, but by a wealthy local business owner. He knew the whole story. All was rosy for a while. He took liberties with money etc. I could see him going off the rails, as we reached 18, I started to distance myself from him as I could see it going south. He started pinching from shops, once when in tower records on a school trip. We both got pulled for that but let off due to my I like to think quick talking and charm. He then started pinching car steroes. He got ran over by the police one night whilst they were pursuing him. By now I'd stopped seeing him all together. He went to prison for a good while  when things started getting serious, drugs etc.

He's now married a dad of two own house and car etc. That's an example of turning your life round and being an example to your children. Not like that ****tard who frankly deserved to meet his commumpance and I'll honestly say I'm glad he did. I hope the old boy doesn't suffer in any for his actions either lawfully or mentally.

Does the recent decision now open up Civil Claims by the family against the home owner ?

Career criminal enough said !

Hopefully not bikebouy, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it did. Old fella should be seeking counselling after what he’s been through. Must be a very traumatic situation to be in. My main concern would be reprisals against him. Hope he’s safe and well

Good article on self defense here:
> https://thesecretbarrister.com/2018/04/05/bashing-burglars-and-the-law-of-self-defence/ <

Does the recent decision now open up Civil Claims by the family against the home owner ?

On what grounds?   he's been released without charge.

The police quite rightly arrested him whilst they investigated, and came to the conclusion he was simply defending himself and his wife from whatever thier intentions were, which given the nature of the situation, they weren't calling round for a cup of tea.

Unlawful Killing.

Its a thing, he was killed unlawfully.

Plenty of Civil cases backing up actions against perpetrators of the killing.