[Closed] Multifuel stoves/log burners

recommendations,? 5kw to 7ish?

All that is determined by the size of the room. Get a 5kw in a room that’s too small and you will boil

Do seriously think about the children and baby robins though. It’s not so much the environment that suffers, but the small particles they kick out give people asthma or worse. If you are happy with that crack on

They will be banned in the next 5 yrs probably too

They will be banned The only available form of heat as we descend into a pist industrial dystopia nightmare in the next 5 yrs probably too

Could go either way

Fancy quote rewording fail

If you've already central heating, just use this and block/cover the old fire place.

Otherwise our Stovax has been superb - only used logs on it though.

Hmm.

Multifuel tends to make a lot of ash (and possibly clinker) that needs riddling out of a live fire, through a grate, into a pan you can easily take out. Air goes in from underneath all the time.

Wood needs to burn in its ash, doesn't need that much removing, air comes from the top. Doesn't really need a grate.

Coal needs a tall and narrow burner. Wood needs wide and shallow.

Pick a shape / grate / etc based on what you'll burn most.

Many moons ago we had a villager puffin which was a pretty good small coal stove, but poor for wood. Tall, narrow, big space for ash pan with its own door, air feed from bottom only.

Current stove is a pretty good wood stove which the manufacturers have thrown a grate in and called it a good job for multifuel, meaning it's only ok, at best, for coal.

We found our multi fuel stove to be brilliant at doing its job unlike the last post….

Air goes in from underneath all the time.

We have two multifuel stoves (that only run on wood) and the air from below can be switched off completely - I don't believe this is uncommon.

So i have another room with a log burner but want this to be multifuel, so any recommendations,? 5kw to 7ish? Freestanding to suit a farmhouse in an open recess.

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Clearview Vision 500 has been excellent for us
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My Burley Fireball just needs a grid to turn it into multifuel I seem to remember. We only burn wood though so have never bought one.

Try and find a Hamlet supplier or buy direct.

We bought a multi-fuel and only burned wood. When we moved house we got a dedicated wood burner - it's easier to light, runs better and is cleaner. I wouldn't get another multi-fuel unless I was 10% sure I would ever be running anything other than wood.

Ah, interesting thread. We've got a multifuel, but from reading mrmonkfingers's post I think it's been made such by adding a couple of firebricks each side of the cavity with a grate in between them and an ashtray underneath it. It also has separate top and bottom vents.

So, if we very predominantly burn wood, would we be best taking the grate and ashtray out, and on the odd occasion we might throw some solid fuel on to keep it going overnight, it'll be fine?

We found our multi fuel stove to be brilliant at doing its job unlike the last post….

that's nice - what do you have?

ours actually burns manufactured smokeless things quite well; but ash removal could be better.

I would have much preferred a burner that worked well with anthracite... but ours came with the house.

@IHN that's pretty much how our burner is set up, bricks and additional grate. Much reduced firebox size. If we only ever burnt wood, I'd burn straight in the ashpan, let it die, clean it out, then go again.

If you're wanting to use smokeless for overnight I think you'll need the grate - the airflow from underneath will stop bits of the stove from from melting or bending.

Smokeless burns hottest at the fuel, with wood the burn is in the gas above the wood.

We had an inset stove fitted in our open fireplace as it let us keep the existing fire surround. The one linked below has a smaller distance to combustibles than some so could keep the old oak fireplace.
More efficient and fewer drafts than an open fire. Definitely recommend going for this style if it fits your room well.
https://rigbys.com/product/stovax-stockton-7-inset-wood-burning-multi-fuel-stove/

We've had a few in various houses.

Moreso Owl (I think it was, maybe an 04 or something). Looked great. Was a pain to light vs...
Westfire (looks like they've changed the model names - equivalent to whats not called a Uniq 18 I think). Easy to light, look after and really well built. So much so when we moved house we had another fitted in the new place.
Then moved again...
House came with a Hunter multi fuel. Absolute rubbish. We're ripping it out and fitting an Esse which after looking around, we got a great deal on (its basically free!). Couple of places quoted us just over £2k to remove the Hunter, refit, line, new hearth etc as the old installation had been done on the cheap/not to proper standards. Interiors 4 Living in York charging the same price but to bang in a brand new Esse. Job jobbed.

Moreso Owl (I think it was, maybe an 04 or something). Looked great. Was a pain to light

We had a Morso and ours was a sod to light too - so much so we only lit it occasionally. Our current one (Parkray Aspect 4) will light with a bit of kinding and a single firelighter (the twisted paper and wax type) pretty much first time every time.

Personally I like having a grate and ash pan even though I only burn wood. It soon builds it's bed of ash and burns well, and I find it easier to empty an ash pan than to shovel ash out.

Have a stovax, it's been used hard for 5 years and is suffering now. It's okay but I'd spend more on a better stove next time.

Find a local supplier and see what they do?

If you’re wanting to use smokeless for overnight

Whats the fascination with keeping a stove slumbering at a low rate over night....

Is it a challenge on How to make a solid fuel stove be most polluting for the least amount of heat given ?

DG IVAR 5kw here. To replace an open fire, as per OP.

https://www.stovefitterswarehouse.co.uk/products/dg-fires-ivar?variant=29492066713683

bought from there as I was reading around stoves and installation regs - the site has a load of good info on both - and they're pretty enthusiastic about the stove. nice big window that stays clear, (30 secs rubbing with a ashy bit of newspaper to take off a bit of a haze every 10 fires) styling not too twee and not too sharply modern.

Works really well - lights first time, every time. Air comes in sheet along the bottom of the box, single control gets you from raging to shut down in literally a few seconds, back up again pretty quickly depending on how cold it's got. Very sensitive in the middle, so nice and easy to get it in the sweet spot. We take 2in of ash out every 15, 20 fires?

That site makes the point that KW rating is massively loose, mfrs have got a huge amount of leeway in how they get a stove to produce at, or just under the 5kw that means you have to start installing airbricks. What matters is the size of the airbox and how much wood you can get burning in there at once.

If you're not sure if 5KW is enough, either make sure you've got a big 5KW, or get an 8KW and if it is too much, you can whack a couple of firebricks inside at each end. Then you've got the option of taking them out and burning more if it's brutally cold and any other heating fails.

No idea about multifuel, though. Mine's wood only.

^^^ Agreed - our supplier explained the same to us when we had ours fitted.

We had a Charnwood Aire 5kw wood-only stove fitted to replace our open fireplace. Fantastic.
Easy to light, two or three logs of an evening gets the room glowing.
The rule of thumb is it's better to run a smaller stove flat out than fit a bigger one and be constantly damping it down because the room's too hot.

Just off the phone to a local stove place earlier as I want a small stove fitting in my office (old farm house, very rural, abundant supply of firewood on site, no mains gas) trying to convince me to install a 5kW stove and run it cool. I know from the 5kW stove we had in the last place that I'll be sitting on Teams calls in just my pants with the windows open if I run a 5kw stove in this room!

We have a pretty cheap beldray from B&Q. think it was only about £120, but it was an exempt version, which is what we need as we're in a clean air zone (though you'd never know it with the neighbours burning what I can only think is tar, judging by the smell).

It's OK for a first stove. It's cheap. burns dry softwood well, lights OK, can't start well on hardwood, need to get some heat in the firebox well before putting anything long burning in and forget about 'air from the top' only.

However, we've found what does burn well on it. Coffee logs. Easy to light and quickly build up heat. Last ages too with the top vent open and bottom closed.

I’ve got a Merlin Midline multifuel. We burn wood 99% of the time.

It’s got a grate and ash tray, which makes cleaning so much easier than a shovel of a dedicated vacuum cleaner. It’s minutes to clean, “brush” most of the ash through the grate, remove the ashtray and empty. Done.

It’s got separate air flow systems, a screw vent under the grate and a top air wash system. The air wash system channels the air around the inside the stove body to preheat it, so when it gets to the fuel it’s already hot. Vastly reduces the amount of fuel needed. It’s very efficient. It lights easily too.

Thanks all, some very useful stuff.

Think i might go wood burner rather than multi

People shouldn’t be trying to run a stove over night. If your going to run a stove, run it hot to reduce the pollution.

Running over night is very bad for pollution!

I've no idea day anyone feels the need to slumber a wood burner overnight to be honest.

I have a Carron enamel stove, had it for about 15 years, we love it. Currently looking at replacing our draughty , hungry open fire with a Carron inset stove so we can control the draw and wood consumption easier, whilst also cutting out the draught.
The stove burns very cleanly and hot with seasoned wood, even shitty , knotty, resiny pine logs burn with very little smoke or residue. The glass is original and is easily cleaned of any soot or burnt resin by spraying with Mr.Sheen whilst cold.
Doesnt burn so well with coal, the cheap coal around here is very dirty and sulphurous, but the anthracite needs serious draught to get any decent heat out of it. Hardly ever burn coal though, maybe 5 times in those 15 years, logs are so much easier and free too. Oak and hawthorn were good, and Ash wood is possibly the best option around here, plentiful, easy to season and burns well even if not quite ready yet.
Definitely worth getting a stove which injects air at the top of the fire, burns much more cleanly and hotter, especially if that incoming air is preheated whilst burning logs.
Anyway, its way better than the Rayburn thing my parents had in the 90s.

People really cant see the advantage in having ready made , glowing embers in order to kick the start the fire again on a freezing cold morning? Im surprised. Also, keeping the stove giving out heat all night can help season and dry damp logs overnight ready for said freezing morning. Works well for me anyway.Those warm logs are already gassing so will catch much quicker and burn easier, and if youre burning fig tree thinnings, fills the house with the delicious smell of caramel. Beautiful start to the day.

We have a little 5kw Jotul (F105) because it is a pretty stove, happens to come as multifuel, but not made use of that.
The other side of the house has a 5kw Burley that is wood only.

Neither gets slumbered, but the Burley is the easiest to light and quickest to generate heat, so takes no more time to get going in the morning than if you were reviving a slumbering stove.

I open up my secondary vent fully when I go to bed, and could still light it in the morning off the embers, no need for me to slumber it down.

I honestly don't know where this 'don't get one too big' comes from.

Seems to be one of those mythical statements just repeated on the net, I guess because above 5kw needs air vents. Get whatever you fancy and if it's a big 'un then just load it up appropriately, unless I'm missing something?

Mine is rated at 5kw but will kick out 8kw apparently and even with doors closed and stuffed full of body parts or dried logs I've never been in a situation of thinking "phew I need to open a window"! Possibly different if you live in a modern and super insulated house though, but even then just run it at less capacity?

Just don't understand it, although this is just the opinion of a layman and happy to be flamed. Guffaw.

Not an expert mate, might have something to do with the amount of iron mass you need to heat to get it to radiate heat or something? Maybe a medium fire in a small stove gives better heat than a medium fire in a bigger, colder mass of iron? Following on from this, if you scaled up appropriately, the amount of wood/fuel required to heat the bigger stoves' extra mass is increased for the same output heat, thus meaning you burn through your woodpile quicker for the same heat output. I'd love to hear what the experts or pro's on here say.
I once made the mistake of burning proper heart of oak which was bone dry when it was only slightly chilly out. I had to strip down to my kegs and open the front door I was that hot, and my house is a high ceilinged, draughty 1930's shithole.

I converted my multifuel with a woodburning kit...massive improvement...

More space for logs...you can see it doubles the space
Easier to load
Easier to light
More space for the wood gas to burn above the fuel (lazy rolling flames)
Less messy (ash used to miss the ashpan)
The multifuel parts sold for twice what I paid for the wood kit

Before and after: (oops, I mean after, and before!)
[img] [/img]

If your door is getting sooted up it’s either a crap stove or yiu are not burning efficiently

Appears that log burners haven’t got to be unacceptable yet on STW, yet cars with big engines have 🤷‍♂️

Mine is rated at 5kw but will kick out 8kw apparently and even with doors closed and stuffed full of body parts or dried logs I’ve never been in a situation of thinking “phew I need to open a window”! Possibly different if you live in a modern and super insulated house though, but even then just run it at less capacity?

So it's apparently not putting out 8kw

People really cant see the advantage in having ready made , glowing embers in order to kick the start the fire again on a freezing cold morning?

Do you also leave your car idling on the drive to save starting it in the morning?

Appears that log burners haven’t got to be unacceptable yet on STW, yet cars with big engines have 🤷‍♂️

Na, tbf this is the first stove thread that's not gone that way in a long time, whereas you can start a fun car thread and not a eyelid is batted.

If your door is getting sooted up it’s either a crap stove or yiu are not burning efficiently

So explain to a novice what 'burning efficiently' is. We've got a Villager stove in our new place (a Flatmate maybe), pretty big, multi fuel, with top and bottom vents and a damper on the flue. We can get it going fine, but I get the niggling feeling we're not getting the best out of it and the doors are sooting up.

We're just using wood, and will burn about five or six logs between about half five and eight in the evening, when we stop putting anything on it.

IHN,

Ideally you want the stove nice and hot, lazy flames above the wood, vents not far off closed. The wood itself just glowing red. When it gets to this stage you can put on the biggest log you can get through the door without any worry you are going to smother it.

Flue thermometer is very useful.

If you can only maintain temperature by leaving the vents open and having a faster/roaring fire, it's probably poorly seasoned wood.

My stove tends to stay clean inside with the firebricks staying beige and the glass rarely needs cleaning, bad wood blackens it up quickly. Finally I always end the evening by opening up the vents so it burns clean until it runs out of fuel.

Smaller is better, I don't really see how you can run a large stove cleanly below it's designed output, it's either got enough fuel at the correct temp, or it's lacking fuel and running cool.

Personally I prefer a larger stove gives you the flexibility. So depends on where you live, altitude, climate etc. In my experience unless you've got your own wood land running it on pure wood will work out more expensive that buying a multi fuel
Had good experience with Charnwood and Arada stoves

Have a look at Clock stoves. Specifically designed from the ground up as a multi fuel and meets the very latest emission standards due to come in next year.

We’ve burnt both wood and coal (well smokeless fuel of course) and it does both brilliantly.

For us as well the design strikes a nice balance between contemporary and traditional. Delighted with ours - 5kw and heats the front room to a nice toasty level and provides a nice background heat to the rest of the downstairs.

https://www.clockwoodburners.co.uk/

We've got an ACR Rowandale multifuel in one room and it's frustratingly crap, it's a pig to light without smoke blowing back into the room, controls have little to no effect until you reach a point where the fire just wants to go out, the height of the firebox because of the multifuel setup mean you can barely fit another log in until the previous log is dust. Oh and the glass gets absolutely filthy after 5 minutes of use

In another room we have a DG Ivar 5 and it's absolutely brilliant, lights super easily, really controllable with just the one lever, the firebox is a really good size so you can load it up for hours and the glass stays clear for weeks, I'd highly recommend, believe the hype.

Both stoves have identical flue setups.

Whats the fascination with keeping a stove slumbering at a low rate over night….

Is it a challenge on How to make a solid fuel stove be most polluting for the least amount of heat given ?

In my case it's because a fire is my only form of heating.
My stove has a back boiler which does the hot water and radiators, big cast iron ones, which take forever to warm up but then take ages to cool down.
My stove is only small so can't fit a big enough log to keep going over night but if I fill it before I go to bed and turn it right down it'll stay alight until maybe 4am, then the radiators will stay warm until maybe 6 or 7am. Makes quite a difference.
Without a boiler with a timer it's the sensible thing to do. Having said that, my house is well enough insulated that I've not had the fire going since March (I do have an immersion for the hot water too, but obviously the electric for that will mostly be from fossil fuels)
.
My parents have a much bigger stove, pop a big log on just before bed, turn it down, the house is warmish when you wake up, usually hot embers still in, stick another log on and open it again and instant fire, no buggering about lighting it at 7am in your dressing gown. They do have oil CH but obviously wood is much better than fossil fuels from an environmental point of view so makes sense to use it where possible.

I do have an immersion for the hot water too, but obviously the electric for that will mostly be from fossil fuels

This is no longer the case. Government figures for 2020 break down electricity generated by fuel type as:
43.2% wind, solar, hydro and other renewables
40.8% gas, coal, oil and other fuels
16.1% nuclear

(page 28)

They do have oil CH but obviously wood is much better than fossil fuels from an environmental point of view so makes sense to use it where possible.

I don't think this is obvious either. Burning wood releases more CO2 per unit of energy generated that burning fossil fuels, and after burning the wood there are fewer trees left to absorb the CO2.

Hands up I have a stove* but I fail to see how life choices means running a stove in its most poluting form and >pm2.5s is ever good. Your just giving the politicians/the guardian more ammunition to ban them.

Surely the butler could keep it stoked all night.

*Glad someone else fact checked the assumptions -i knew they were horse manure I just couldn't be arsed to find the sources.

*Rural location on oil , burning self sourced left overs from clear felling on managed/farmed land openly for financial reasons.....but burned well to maximise the heat output for a given particulate discharge.

and after burning the wood there are fewer trees left to absorb the CO2.

While there's loads of dinosaurs all over the place 🙂

the photo of the converted wood / multifuel says in a picture far better than I did, what some "multifuels" are like, ie a bit of an afterthought and not that effective at doing both wood and coal... although they probably work passably with manufactured smokeless nuggets

I also hated my multi-fuel because the controls were such a faff (bottom vent, top vent and door vent) and nothing I ever did seemed to have much of an effect on the performance of the stove until it suddenly went nuclear hot, smothered and smokey or just died a death.

Our log stove has just the one vent and it is a simple adjustment to open / close more depending on how warm / cool we want the room.

Thanks for the wood conversion tip-off @spooky_b329, didn't know you could get kits specifically to do that.

The multifuel that was in our house when we bought it doesn't burn wood particularly well, and I've always assumed it's a bit shit (probably cheap, like a lot of other stuff in the house when we bought it) or it's the unlined flue. It seems counter-intuitive burning wood on a grate, which still seems to have a lot of air gaps whichever position the wood/coal lever is in.

@thenorthwind Yep it's great, they are specific to the stove though so I guess not all manufacturers offer a kit. It's pretty simple though, heavy plates that go under the fire bricks on three sides to keep the fuel away from the stove casing, and a different 'fence' at the front.

@spooky_b329 cheers, yeah looks like there is one available for mine. It just seems to be a (not very high) plate for the front, a plate for the back that still seems to have indentations to accept the great bars, and no base plate. https://www.hunterstoves.co.uk/conversion-kit-jcb0504

Wondering whether I'd be as well just taking the grate out and putting some firebrick on the bottom. It's easy enough to take apart.

Yep I think you can get some lightweight fire bricks that you can cut to size, probably best to make large ones to replace the existing rather than try to stack the old on top of the new.

Mine didn't come with a base piece, but the stove already had ridges so if you remove all the ash the timber would still be off the bottom slightly.

I found an old trowel that is great for removing ash... Although I only need to do it once a fortnight when the stove is used daily.

[img] [/img]

Once again thanks folks.. i have discovered brands.

Well I'm glad I read this thread.
I'd got as far as stripping the grate bars out when the chimney sweep came. He seems pretty knowledgeable so I asked him about multifuel>wood conversions and he said he'd just use it as it is (with the grate removed) and it'd be fine burning straight on the bottom (which seems to be firebrick with small grooves in it). Fired it up for the first time this year and it but so much better it's unreal. Up to optimum temperature within 10 minutes and sits there happily with just the top vent open. I never shut either vent before and had to use the door to control it.

Is it time for the annual 'my wood's drier than your wood' thread?

we've got an old Coalbrookdale Severn Stove made in the original AGA foundry, its ~40 year old and rated at 15kw. Mainly been run on smokeless fuel but its going to be replaced in the next few years for a pellet burner.

Westfire Uniq 35 here, multifuel but operates very well as a wood burner. 4.5kw rated so very def a sub 5kw stove that can be run at constant ramming speed without overpowering my small lounge. Given my research time again I would def go for a small pure wood burner like an Aspect 4, purely for the bigger fire box in a same size stove. altho the uniq 35 is brill and appropriate for my room size it would just be nice to have that bigger fire box space in a small stove that presumably still wouldn't overpower the room