You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61018584
Pointless? Difficult to police?
I read that article as, old person walks out into traffic, probably on their own phone, nearly gets hit by a cyclist, and doesn't want to admit they're an idiot, so blames anyone else they can.
I think it is entirely reasonable to level the playing field.
If it is too distracting to use a mobile whilst driving, it follows that it is too distracting to use a mobile while riding. If you are desperate to make a call on a ride, pull to the side and stop.
A sensible proposal.
As pointed out in the linked article, it is already a (perfectly reasonable IMHO) offence.
Jeez, what a non-story. I want to ban white trainers with tan chinos, can I have a whole page on website news please.
I suggest we do the same for pedestrians to stop them walking out onto the road while using the phones.
Also people wearing head phones while walking so they cannot hear people approaching.
If you want to go the whole Tory/Daily Hate route I think you should ban children from skipping pebles on the sea as they cause rising sea levels too.
I suggest we do the same for pedestrians to stop them walking out onto the road while using the phones.
Yes, like an opposite to the smoking ban - you can only use phones indoors! That would be awesome 😆
If it is too distracting to use a mobile whilst driving, it follows that it is too distracting to use a mobile while riding. If you are desperate to make a call on a ride, pull to the side and stop.
A sensible proposal.
No, it isn't. The reason it's a criminal offence in a car is because someone steering two tonnes of metal down the road at 50mph+ in busy areas while distracted presents an enormous threat to other people with almost nil risk to themselves.
Someone chatting on a phone at low speed on a bike presents a risk to themselves but a tiny threat to other people. What's more, there is already a law that covers this and it has far stiffer penalties than that for phone use while driving. And what are you going to do, give penalty points to someone who doesn't have a license?
What's more, there's almost zero enforcement for drivers as it stands (just take a look at the number of people texting in stop-and-start traffic, or the white van drivers with Netflix running on their phone in a cradle on the motorway) and you'll see that someone on a bike is just an easy target.
it is already a (perfectly reasonable IMHO) offence.
To be fair, you could make the same argument about using a phone while driving - previously covered under driving without due care, now a specific offence.
Seems reasonable for it to be an offence, but banning things just because they've happened to a peer who then decides they don't like it seems a poor way of deciding what becomes law in a democracy. Yes, I know it would have to go through both houses, etc., but you get my point.
Pointless. The article even says it's pointless, pretty much:
Using a phone is already an offence (careless cycling). So is riding on the wrong side of the road, like this cyclist was.
He clearly was not caught for either offence.
Let's introduce a new one, with lesser penalties! That will solve everything!
Yes, someone chatting on a phone at low speed on a bike poses minimal risk, probably. But so does someone doing the same in a car.
Someone texting while doing 20+mph poses a rather bigger risk. If you hit an elderly person at that speed they’re hardly going to walk away from it. ‘Using the phone while riding’ covers quite a wide range of things, some are dangerous, some are not. Best to just not do it altogether.
Ban poverty instead you parasites.
As pointed out in the linked article, it is already a (perfectly reasonable IMHO) offence.
Agreed, although the same could be said for using a mobile while driving, which was originally considered as driving without due care.
Happy for the playing field to be levelled, but not a priority and a bit of a pointless news story.
It wouldn't affect cyclists, just scrotes on bikes. I encountered one the other day while I was driving at work (heading uphill along a narrow road, parked cars down the other side, not enough room for two vehicles to pass). Scrote wobbling downhill towards me, cradling a bag full of energy drinks and Monster Munch, talking into his phone. No messing about: I just pulled over and stopped because I had no idea what he was going to do. Turns out, neither did he; after finally noticing me, he decided to ride across and go between me and the kerb - which I was right up against. He then tried to hop the kerb, still holding his phone to his ear, failed dismally and slow motion face planted on the pavement next to my nearside wing. Phone and junk all over the place. I leaned out of the passenger window, expressed the hope that he wasn't intending to breed, and carried safely on my way...
But banning it? What, like e-scooters are banned? What's the point if there's no enforcement?
Just getting them to obey traffic lights would be a start..
https://road.cc/content/news/police-catch-18-red-light-jumping-cyclists-90-minutes-289991
Near my office, in a very touristy area of London, the junctions have bike traffic lights alongside the car ones that work on a different sequence. 9 out of 10 cyclists ignore them when they're red
It's just another dead cat / distraction.
A couple of pages of anti-cyclist stuff in the Daily Wail will be a couple of days of peace and quiet from tax, energy, Brexit, Covid, Partygate, corruption, Channel 4 sell-off...
Win all round.
What about on a unicycle?
That's hands-free.
Yes, someone chatting on a phone at low speed on a bike poses minimal risk, probably. But so does someone doing the same in a car.
Using a phone in a car while stationery or moving slowly isn't 'minimal' risk, they're still in control of a 2 tonne vehicle. How many times have you seen a driver waiting at lights, oblivious that they turned green 30 seconds ago as they're staring at their phone, to then panic and drive away whilst being completely unaware of what's going on around them. If they run over a pedestrian/bike next to them, even at 5mph, 500kg on top of them is still going to hurt.
Someone texting while doing 20+mph poses a rather bigger risk.
So does someone checking their bike GPS, or adjusting their gears, or chatting to another cyclist, or grabbing a bottle from the cage.
If you plough into someone whilst doing any of the above, it would be covered under the current law.
The Tory Party is of course being the party of small government, deregulation and individual liberty. So of course a Tory peer thinks there should be more rules about something they just noticed
Ban phones?
I joke. A little. Amazing how many of the brain dead wander around the city centre staring into their little screen of doom instead of looking where they're going.
I wonder how many peds have been clipped for stepping into traffic doing so, but somehow it's a drivers/cyclists fault?
I take a pretty self-centred view on it; I like being alive so don't rely on others to not run me over because I'm being a bit dim. Bonkers how in this regard it's someone else's responsibility to have to offset for an individual's stupidity...
Ban everything, still only about 5 coppers to police it.
It’s just another dead cat / distraction.
Of course it is. The entire story is that an MP is "calling for" something. So what?
I saw the clip from BBC Parliament and thought...wtf?
As far as I could tell she's basing her comments on one experience she had; there is no proper evidence base to support her.
Lady Mackintosh, whoever she is, seemed barely compos mentis.
Near my office, in a very touristy area of London, the junctions have bike traffic lights alongside the car ones that work on a different sequence. 9 out of 10 cyclists ignore them when they’re red
Which is probably more of an indication that the infrastructure is sub-optimal than all cyclists being law-breaking scum.
As far as I could tell she’s basing her comments on one experience she had; there is no proper evidence base to support her.
Tories don't do evidence, they exist solely on opinions and beliefs. Which is why the country is so utterly ****ed and why every single "strategy" the Government come up with is so mind-blowingly stupid because none of it has been near any form of evidence base.
I wonder how many peds have been clipped for stepping into traffic doing so, but somehow it’s a drivers/cyclists fault?
It is the driver's fault. Or rather, maybe not fault but responsibility. Which is why THC has just been updated to reflect this.
As I learned when we were discussing this at the time, it's possible for the pedestrian to be held partly to blame (I didn't know this), but the old "sorry guv, he just stepped out, there was nothing I could do" butters no parsnips. You should be able to stop in the distance you can see, and you should be anticipating free-range pedestrians to be abject morons.
As others have said, it's covered under current legislation. Doesn't stop the likes of the Deliveroo, Just Eat and Uber Eats drivers having full-on video calls while riding along though.
I wonder how many peds have been clipped for stepping into traffic doing so, but somehow it’s a drivers/cyclists fault?
Back when I was a cash van driver (big Sprinter, armoured and not exactly small or inconspicuous!) it was a regular occurrence to hear people walk into the side of it! I'd be parked up outside a bank or shop, hadn't moved for a good few minutes then you'd hear the unmistakable 'Thud' followed by some choice words as they try and find their phone and check it for damage. I thought it was people playing silly buggers until I saw two people do it in quick succession. On more than one occasion I have come back to the van to find a nose print out of blood on the panel. Any delivery/courier person who parks on pedestrianised areas (when it's allowed) will have similar stories.
Ban them from what?
The entire story is that an MP is “calling for” something. So what?
That's what I meant by my cryptic trainers/chinos comment really
Banning drivers from using mobile phones has been so successful I can't see why this wouldn't work just as well...
You should be able to stop in the distance you can see, and you should be anticipating free-range pedestrians to be abject morons.
Yes and no.
Yes anticipation is everything.
No......I'll give you a scenario I sadly watched. Street with a pavement and narrow two lane road, 30mph zone but cars doing 20 as busy and not too far from a pedestrian crossing behind them. Ped walking in same direction of travel as traffic on their side of road but walking near (but not on) kerb as other peds walking in other direction. Suddenly without warning ped turns 90 degree without slowing down and steps directly into the path of a car - ped evidently looking at phone and headphones on (but as a fellow ped walking just behind him I didn't clock that until he turned - hoodie up). Like the worst frogger move you have ever seen. Car has 3 yards to react maximum (edit - thinking about that it must have been more to even stand a chance to react at all) and impressively does, braking whilst swerving into the path of an oncoming car. Cars sort of skim wings and take off each others wing mirrors. Ped bumps off the near side corner/wing, spins and is floored by the nearside wing mirror blow to the sternum. Could the driver have done any more - short of not being in an actual car or pushing it, it's hard to see how they could have acted more responsibly. You could mandate that all roads with currently pavements must be driven along at walking pace I guess. But they were no more culpable than every other driver on that road and arguably reacted fasted/better than most would have been able to. I was only a witness giving a factual statement so no idea what the final outcome was.
On the using a phone whilst riding - I'm in the no camp. Have I done it - yep - making a call home on a quiet back lane and the like. Would I ride single handed having a full blown conversation whilst weaving through traffic - hell no. And like many laws in all aspects of life it would most probably penalise after the fact. And as said, there's stuff in place to cover that already.
I believe the Netherlands has already has this law, as my son found out....
The entire story is that an MP is “calling for” something. So what?
not even an MP, she's a Peer in the other place
Police in Hackney catch 18 red light jumping cyclists in 90 minutes
(From that road.cc link up there ^ )
If I sat at any traffic lights around here, I'd guarantee that I'd spot 18 cars jumping the lights in significantly less than 90 minutes. It's now routine for at least one car to go through every red, often 2 or 3. But cyclists pose so much more danger...
Cyclists using mobile phones in Victoria to face $476 fine from July
Neelima Choahan
By Neelima Choahan
Updated June 27, 2017 — 12.10amfirst published June 26, 2017 — 10.36pmCyclists caught using their mobile phones will cop an on-the-spot fine from this weekend.
From Saturday, police will start issuing a $476 penalty to any cyclist found using a hand-held phone while riding - bringing the penalty in line with the existing fine for drivers of other vehicles....
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/cyclists-using-mobile-phones-in-victoria-to-face-476-fine-from-july-20170626-gwz2cb.html possibly paywalled
Down under we've had for a few years and as a driver, pedestrian and cyclist my impression is has contributed nothing, nada, sweet FA, FA raised to infinity, zilch, way less than zero, bupkis, nil to road safety...just another push for "equality"...over vocal/over represented in the press drivers often doing whatever suits complain of being unfairly treated so lets add another road law for cyclists so its all fair...politics of the kinder garden
I believe the Netherlands has already has this law, as my son found out….
I believe they do. Cycling is such a normal activity over there though that it's quite normal for people to ride around scrolling through their phone in the exact same way people do walking here, and it led to a number of nasty accidents.
Cycling is such a normal activity over there though that it’s quite normal for people to ride around scrolling through their phone in the exact same way people do walking here, and it led to a number of nasty accidents.
People were certainly doing a lot of looking at phones whilst cycling when I was there in 2018. Also riding mopeds on cyclepaths whilst looking at phones and a range of other apparently unsafe things like cycling with a child standing on the rack holding onto the (adult) rider's shoulders..
Just getting them to obey traffic lights would be a start..
It's weird that so many people focus on this.
How many people actually do it, and how much of a problem does it actually cause really?
There are *so* many other road users that habitually jump red lights who all get ignored. I've been rammed (on a bicycle) for stopping at red lights when a minicab really wanted to jump it.
I've seen pedestrians stop and shout at cyclists for having passed the stop line (stopped to allow pedestrians across, just ahead of where the actual line was). There was a bus, a van, and a taxi who'd all stopped at the same place who the pedestrian apparently couldn't see...
Whilst I don't disagree with your point; THC is what it is. I think it's the wrong approach, absolving individuals of their accountability depending on their mode of transport is a bit daft.
And arse, or somwone who is easily distracted, ot addicted to their smartphone in a vehicle is probably an the same on a bike and two feet.
Passing all the accountability to drivers is simply delaying the inevitable, but by then the stakes are higher.
However, you can have all the rules in the world but without a robust system to enforce them, we arrive back here.
It is the driver’s fault. Or rather, maybe not fault but responsibility. Which is why THC has just been updated to reflect this.
I guess I must have just imagined all the traffic light cameras in my town that catch drivers who jump reds. Or maybe the Evil Toreees brainwashed me into believing they exist through their capitalist running dog lackies in the Murdoch Press.
Ban mobile ownership completely. It might actually improve communications skills, (especially in teenagers!)
The world managed fine before they were invented.
Are they really needed?
(Takes cover!)
Meh.
One of the (vanishingly small number of) positives about our current administration seems to be that every time someone with an agenda to promote provides this kind of click bait, they trot out the same dismissive statement. The government is keen to promote cycling and its proven benefits for wellbeing and the environment. We are not looking to amend legislation at this time...
Ignore, move on.
Targeting phones is not addressing the issue precisely. In a car or on a bike, staring at your Garmin could be just as distracting as staring at your phone.
Passing all the accountability to drivers is simply delaying the inevitable, but by then the stakes are higher
Want me to be as accountable as drivers while I'm on my bike? Give me the same entitlements that drivers get.
That means riding in the middle of the lane, being able to park my bike where I want on public streets, roads lovingly resurfaced for my benefit, wide fast purpose-built roads that cars, pedestrians, and slower cyclists aren't allowed on, VAT subsidies on the food I need to ride the bike, a police force to act in my interest over everyone else's, and MAYBE, MAYBE you'll have a point.
You're a delicate, relative little flower aren't you? And you wonder why nothing changes?
If you'd read the whole exchange you'd see I was referring to everyone. The ped that just steps out the cyclist and the driver.
Want me to be as accountable as drivers while I’m on my bike? Give me the same entitlements that drivers get.
That means riding in the middle of the lane, being able to park my bike where I want on public streets, roads lovingly resurfaced for my benefit, wide fast purpose-built roads that cars, pedestrians, and slower cyclists aren’t allowed on, VAT subsidies on the food I need to ride the bike, a police force to act in my interest over everyone else’s, and MAYBE, MAYBE you’ll have a point.
That's the hilarity of this subject, the size of the displays and the further move to touch screens in cars makes the debate about phones a little pointless.
Was looking at the new Kia Sportage recently, the entire cockpit is a smartscreen, so means you have to look to accurately adjust anything in the car.
Seems a bit pointless to bang on about mobiles in isolation.
Targeting phones is not addressing the issue precisely. In a car or on a bike, staring at your Garmin could be just as distracting as staring at your phone.
Many people would agree about the touch screen issue in modern cars, including those who work in the industry and it’s peripherals
Matt Prior in the Autocar magazine
https://www.autocar.co.uk/opinion/tester%27s-notes/matt-prior-rise-distracting-car-screens-must-be-stopped
Fair enough - It starts at the top
Give me the same entitlements that drivers get.
You already have them. Even better, you don't need a license, insurance or to pay VED to enjoy those entitlements
Fine, I absolutely agree cycling and texting/chatting/browsing on a mobile phone should be against the law...
There is no specific offence for a cyclist using a phone, but a minister pointed out cyclists can be prosecuted for careless or dangerous cycling.
That comes with fines of up to £2,500.
... Oh it basically already is than, just need the police willing/able/resourced to enforce, a bit like with all the mobile using drivers they currently fail to deal with.
Essentially it's a non-issue but relates to bicycles making it of critical importance...
You’re a delicate, relative little flower aren’t you? And you wonder why nothing changes?
I dunno, you're the one that seems to have taken offence.
No reason not to. If you need to take a call stop. No problem there is there? Much easier than in a car.
Copmaring with other situations is pointless. In fact it is an admission of defeat as it is just used to divert the attention from the fact that there is no reason not to ban.
Of course policing won't make it effective but we coulkd solve that with trafffic police funded by fines. Eg £1000 for every mph over the limit or say £5000 for first mobile use.
In fact it is an admission of defeat as it is just used to divert the attention from the fact that there is no reason not to ban.
But what is the reason to ban?
If people are being killed or seriously injured due to distracted cyclists on phones, then there is a good argument for it.
If that isn't happening, then doing so provides little to no benefit, whilst simultaneously taking resources away from other areas that can provide a benefit.
It should be based on tangible evidence.
I suspect in the UK it's not an actual problem, and just the act of merely putting the spotlight on it discourages cycling and would be detrimental to society as a whole.
Yes, like an opposite to the smoking ban – you can only use phones indoors! That would be awesome
Yes! And mobile phones should be tethered to the wall with some sort of 'lead' to enforce this.
I guess I must have just imagined all the traffic light cameras in my town that catch drivers who jump reds. Or maybe the Evil Toreees brainwashed me into believing they exist through their capitalist running dog lackies in the Murdoch Press
Which town is this?
For reference I drive all over the country. Don't notice many. But then I stop my vehicle at traffic lights, so don't really care about cameras or lack thereof, judging by the number of drivers jumping red lights there can't be that many.
Are you from the Daily Mail?
I very rarely see issues with cyclists or pedestrians and I spend much of my day driving around London and over towns/cities.
The local oiks in housing estates on BMXs, MTBs, Scooters, Ebikes, mopeds and in cars or on foot are exactly that irrelevant of transportation mode.
There are *so* many other road users that habitually jump red lights who all get ignored.
An example fairly recently while I was on my way home; at a roundabout I turn off and go under the local railway line, the road curves and dips under the bridge, with traffic lights either side as it’s too narrow for two cars to pass, let alone the big trucks on their way to and from the business estates around where I work, on this occasion I had a green light in my favour as I came off the roundabout, only to meet a big rigid truck coming towards me and already just under the tunnel. I sat where I was, just staring at the driver, who clearly thought I was going to reverse all the way back. I quickly disabused him of that notion, watching him reverse back to where he should have stopped, about the length of his truck.
As a thank you I gave him the finger. Jackass. 🤬
And I have been knocked off my bike by a stupid ped walking along staring at her phone, who turned an walked into me as I went to pass her after ringing my bell! Her phone smashed into pieces, she picked the bits up, turned and walked back the way she’d come from and walked off, having said not one word!
Many people would agree about the touch screen issue in modern cars, including those who work in the industry and it’s peripherals
Absolutely this, it’s a problem I’ve become increasingly aware of over the last six years, driving hundreds of different cars during that period, and it genuinely frightens me. Some cars like the Citroen C4 Grand Picasso not only have a big touchscreen, but all of the driving info is in the centre of the dash, not in front of the driver, which is madness. One particular reason I bought my Ford is that the dials are analogue, and in front of me, the radio and aircon controls are actual knobs, I can reach out and turn them, adjusting as necessary without taking my eyes off the road, although the central floating screen does display the temperature quite big, as well as volume, but neither are important.
Another issue with these big displays that the likes of Mercedes use is the possibility of failure, which has happened, with an A-Class Merc that was leaving the workshop after QC following bodywork and paint repair, the entire display failed, resulting in the car having to be trailered to the nearest dealership.
Imagine that at 1am on a motorway…