[Closed] Motorway etiquette

Tailgating is never justified; but if you want to know why they're tailgating, there's your answer.

Don't really agree with this. People tailgate because they're idiots - no other reason.

I quite enjoy it when people tailgate me, when the traffic in front of me clears they aren't tailgaiting me for long.

I do agree that it wrong and stupid though.

However, much like undertaking though, good lane discipline would eliminate most of it

Sometimes I stay in the middle lane when it's quiet, the outside lane is clear and there are things in the inside lane. I see no need to be constantly weaving in and out of the inside lane. Anyone faster can just move to the clear overtaking lane and do the same, if there's no-one coming up behind them.

Some people seem to insist that I pull into the inside lane immediately on passing every single lorry though. And I see people doing that too - seems daft to me and counter productive, when there's no need for it.

I'd rather change lanes when it makes sense to do so and there's a good reason to.

Oh shit.. what've I done.. I've posted on another driving thread.. 🙁

Motorway driving standards in this country are just shit.

I have been travelling on an almost empty strtch of motorway, admittedly making good progress and the only car visible in that stretch of motorway is in the third lane doing 60mph, to overtake correctly I have to pull over to the third lane and wait for them to move. They did and then went back into the third lane. WTF muppets.

Driving home last night from London a car weaves through about 6 cars undertaking on the inside overtaking etc, then slows down for the next exit, muppet.

Driving in haevy traffic with the flow in the third lane and people try to drive into your boot, occasionally flashing to get past. Yeah with 30 other cars and no where to go on a busy motorway. Muppets.

Foglights!

Main beam!

Moving with the flow and there is a gap to overtake slower cars and you indicate to move out and the ****er decides that he will accelerate to close the gap and ends up stuck up the bumper of the car in front.

People pulling out using signal manouvre then mirror as you slam on the brakes to avoid running into the back of them because they literally swerve into the next lane rather than gently flow. sigmnaling often being optional.

Driving stndards are piss poor and generally a damb site worse and ruder the closer you get to London.

Driving standards in the UK are generally better than many countries I've driven in, btw. Not good, but better than many!

The other one that makes me smile are those drivers with the seat ratcheted all the way forward, white knuckles on the steering wheel from gripping it so tightly, face 3cm from the windscreen and eyes wide in terror / panic. That cannot be comfortable! 😀

Travelling slightly faster? Overtake. What's the problem?

You

Strange place this one. People come here for discussion of bike and non-bike related matters but expect everybody to share the same opinion. Anybody who doesn't is either an idiot or troll.

I think the middle lane is the safest and most efficient place for drivers going at or close to the speed limit.
Motorways are not places to prove your masculinity. I left those insecurities behind 20 years ago.
The minuscule gains in travel time by aggressive driving are not worth the fuel costs and accident risks.
If somebody in the left lane wants to overtake a slower vehicle, or wants to move into the middle ahead of a lane merge, ill give them way by slowing down.
Many people won't however creating dangerous situations. I can't be arsed with this.
Most merging drivers do not give way to the motorway traffic either in my experience. They expect the motorway drivers to slow down. This is dangerous too particularly when the middle lane has boxed you in.

I don't give a rats arse what people think of my driving, cause my priority is getting there safely not impressing you lot!

I don't give a rats arse what people think of my driving, cause my priority is getting there safely not impressing you lot!

Hmm, knows what the correct lane is but chooses not to drive in it.

There is only two reasons you would do it, either you are so fraking mind blowingly lazy and selfish that you just drive in the middle lane because moving out for the occasional truck or junction is too much like effort.

Or you are so skull crushingly stupid that you haven't bothered to learn how to drive on the motorway or indeed picked it up from everyone else round about you what bloody lane to drive in.

Option 1 for you then sir

Is there a large space to your left when this happens?

This was my first thought Cougar....!

Sometimes I stay in the middle lane when it's quiet, the outside lane is clear and there are things in the inside lane. I see no need to be constantly weaving in and out of the inside lane. Anyone faster can just move to the clear overtaking lane and do the same, if there's no-one coming up behind them.

Some people seem to insist that I pull into the inside lane immediately on passing every single lorry though. And I see people doing that too - seems daft to me and counter productive, when there's no need for it.

I'd rather change lanes when it makes sense to do so and there's a good reason to.

Have you ever considered that that is a very selfish way to drive. Rather than you pulling in as per the highway code, you would rather someone else pulled out. 😯

Selfish.

Strange place this one. People come here for discussion of bike and non-bike related matters but expect everybody to share the same opinion. Anybody who doesn't is either an idiot or troll.

I think the middle lane is the safest and most efficient place for drivers going at or close to the speed limit.

The rules of the road aren't really a matter of opinion.

I think the middle lane is the safest and most efficient place for drivers going at or close to the speed limit.

Why would that be? Unless overtaking you should be in the left lane not the middle lane.

I don't give a rats arse what people think of my driving, cause my priority is getting there safely not impressing you lot!

Nobody is asking to be impressed just commenting on people driving like tits and everyone is interested in getting there safely. However having reasonable driving standards such as not sitting in the middle or third lane and getting faster moving vehicles to cross two or three lanes of traffic would be courteous.

I think the most dangerous thing I've ever done on a motorway was to observe the speed limit and try to maintain safe stopping distances on the M6 near manchester- chaos ensues.

Have you ever considered that that is a very selfish way to drive. Rather than you pulling in as per the highway code, you would rather someone else pulled out

Well not really - The person could easily stay in the clear outside lane as I stay in the middle. I often stay in the outside lane if there's no-one behind me - no need to pull in.

It's about helping traffic flow properly. Invariably, when I do pull in, someone in the middle lane trundles past me really slowly so that when I meet the next lorry I have to brake. Which wastes fuel as I then have to speed up.

I knew people would pick holes in that statement. I take a great deal of care when I drive and I put a lot of thought into what's best for everyone and best for traffic flow. Far more than most people seem to. I'm definitely not being selfish, inconsiderate, lazy, ignorant or thoughtless. If you drove with me I could give you considered justification for almost everything I do, involving the probably and possible actions of all the cars around me.

However people still get the hump for their own reasons despite my best efforts to please. It's no wonder people get so ****ing angry on the roads is it?

Unless overtaking you should be in the left lane not the middle lane

Chainging lanes carries a risk, because your car has blind spots, and you can't check them without taking your eyes off the road in front. Therefore needless lane changes are to be avoided imo.

It's about helping traffic flow properly. Invariably, when I do pull in, someone in the middle lane trundles past me really slowly so that when I meet the next lorry I have to brake. Which wastes fuel as I then have to speed up.

They're probably doing exactly what you normally do.

However having reasonable driving standards such as not sitting in the middle or third lane and getting faster moving vehicles to cross two or three lanes of traffic would be courteous.

I think the middle lane is the safest and most efficient place for drivers going at or close to the speed limit.

Might as well close the third lane, then.

The only drivers faster than me are breaking the law. They have a lane to the right of me.
Why do they need another?

If you're travelling "at or near" the limit as you suggested earlier, I'm guessing you're doing, what, an indicated 65mph? So you're actually doing maybe 60mph, as I explained earlier. So the other drivers aren't necessarily breaking any laws.

Which leads me to,

The person could easily stay in the clear outside lane as I stay in the middle. I often stay in the outside lane if there's no-one behind me - no need to pull in.

That's fine until you add more vehicles. Then you potentially end up in the situation where someone is in lane two forcing all the traffic into lane three, with a perfectly usable first lane available.

Not saying that's what you do, Molly, but it's something I see happening regularly and it's really frustrating. Last time I came up on the M6 I must have passed a hundred cars on the left simply by sitting in the first lane with the cruise control set to (actual) 70mph. All because a couple of bellends think the second lane is the "cruising" lane and the vast majority of others prefer to drive bumper to bumper in the "fast" lane like sheep.

The only drivers faster than me are breaking the law. They have a lane to the right of me.
Why do they need another?

Actually sitting in the middle lane would also be braking the law, if its in the highway code. It could be driving without due care and attention, as in there is nothing else on the road and you choose to flout the prescribed idea of using the first lane "unless overtaking".

Additionally someone choosing to overtake you may be withing the law according to their speedometer if it reads differently to yours.

Gah! The joining from a slip road thing does my head in.

I would say it is now the 'rule' rather than the 'exception' to come down the slip road at whatever speed you feel like, making no effort to gauge what traffic is actually using the carriageway you are about to join.
Either don't accelerate enough and just pull onto a rapidly approaching car that can't pull out but could have easily got past you before the end of the slip road (thus still giving you time to merge safely) OR accelerate hard in a macho attempt to undertake the car currently alongside the slip road even if there is a massive gap behind said car. If your car isn't powerful enough to fully pass the car on the carriageway, no bother, so long as you have at least 5mm of your numberplate ahead, you do in fact have priority to join regardless of the vehicle on the carriageway.
OR accelerate at a suitable speed up the slip road, find a suitable gap to join but then hesitate and get slower and slower the nearer you get to the end of the slip road causing the cars behind you to also slow down, even though the car on the main carriageway is politely flashing his lights to confirm that you do have space to join. Wait until you are almost stationary, before swerving onto the carriageway anyway.

Should any of the above happen you are fully within your rights to blame anyone but yourself and shake your fists, flash your lights and honk your horn at any carriageway users who have impeded your perfect approach to the carriageway.

Oh, and don't get me started on the 'people who attempt to close a large gap that you are indicating & moving into, then honk & gesticulate wildly when you complete the manouevre' people.

😀

That's fine until you add more vehicles.

Which is exactly what I said - I said 'when it's quiet'. And I only do it when there's traffic in the inside lane, so you would not be able to cruise past at 70 in the inside.

People flash me for staying in the middle lane when there's 200m or so between lorries. No point in me pulling in there.

Actually sitting in the middle lane would also be braking the law, if its in the highway code.

Not necessarily.

I see no need to be constantly weaving in and out of the inside lane.

Invariably, when I do pull in, someone in the middle lane trundles past me really slowly so that when I meet the next lorry I have to brake

Have you considered using your mirrors and forawrd planning?
I pootle at 60 so have to overtake lorries and this rarely happens - tbh the most likely cause is a driver who wont use any land but the middle.

Chainging lanes carries a risk, because your car has blind spots, and you can't check them without taking your eyes off the road in front. Therefore needless lane changes are to be avoided imo.

"I think the middle lane is the safest and most efficient place for drivers going at or close to the speed limit."

I am trying to fathom why the middle is the safest?

I agree no point pulling in and out of traffic ie lorries, but on a clear motorway.

The middle is the safest cause it involves the least amount of lane changes due to slower traffic or merging junctions.
The right lane is frequently occupied by angry drivers going well above the speed limit. Best to keep out of their way.
The M4 between Swansea and London is rarely if ever "clear".

A few years ago I was riding my motorbike on the M6 and the road ahead was closed. I filtered through to the front and was first away when the road opened. A few minutes later a line of 3 cars approach in the middle lane and pass me, continuing in the middle lane for as long as I could see them. The back two were also tailgating - the road was totally empty! Weird.

The M4 between Swansea and London is rarely if ever "clear".

It is quite quiet if you go at the right times though.

tbh i would worry that you are unaware of what is going on around you that a vehicle can disapear in your "blind spot" - how many minutes of not using the mirrors does htis take?

For ****'s sake that is some prime word twisting.

I didn't say it was actually dangerous, I said it carries a risk. Of course it does. I am constantly looking in my mirrors and I THINK I know where all the cars are. But I'm not going to bet my life on it.

If you want to twist words to create an argument, we can both do it. How about this: If you think you don't have to check your blind spots because you think you know where all the car are, then you're being arrogant and dangerous..

A pretty stupid statement, but on a par with yours. Now stop giving hyper critical assessments of people's driving you've never driven with. It's jsut going to cause needless argument.

Have you considered using your mirrors and forawrd planning?

JUST DON'T. It's as if you really want to drag the forum into another bitter acrimonous cock fight.

And so this is why I'm so happy to be travelling home on red dashed lines rather than a blue solid one today! 🙂

Okay so ignoring selfish middle lane drivers for a minute - at least we know who they are now. 😀

The slip road thing does my head in too.

Two lane slip roads where everyone uses the right hand lane, regardless of what speed they are travelling at.

People who join the motorway and move straight to the middle lane even though you are in it having moved there to give them room to join the motorway. WTF!

People who brake for a slip road / exit while still on the friggin motorway! Gahhh!!

Its lucky we aren't allowed to bear arms in this country

[i]Two lane slip roads where everyone uses the right hand lane, regardless of what speed they are travelling at.[/i]

They get undertaken.

Richmtb your e-net personality is tuff, but you yourself driving in 2nd lane faster than others expect people to move out of your way? Really? It sounds like you not much different from others but pretend to be superior yet can't cut it enough to just drive in overtaking lane like executives do. Huh.

There is not really a great necessity to check your blind spot unless you are maneuvering is there? OK be aware of what is ahead, and behind using your mirrors however unless you are changing lanes there would not be a need to look over your shoulder at the blind spot which if you are doing so constantly would take your eyes off the road ahead.

Etiquette, on motorways? It's every man for himself and devil take the hindmost!

People flash me for staying in the middle lane when there's 200m or so between lorries. No point in me pulling in there.

Is there any point in not doing? Road's quiet, after all.

Just to add my tuppence: I entirely recognise the situation the OP is talking about. Happens to me regularly.

I very rarely go over an indicated 80mph so I'll frequently be in the middle lane overtaking trucks and slower vehicles in lane 1 while some other cars are going a good deal faster than me.

And for some reason, just like the OP, some odd drivers seem averse to lane 3 and would rather tailgate me until I am safely past whatever I am overtaking and can pull in.

I'm slightly confused by the logic that they think I am a middle lane hog for using it to legitmately pass people so to "teach me a lesson" they will doggedly stay in the middle lane too - thus "hogging" it themselves.

Mind you, it's not just motorways, I just drove home doing 60 on a local NSL road with some daft bint two inches from my bumper the entire way, despite there being plenty of places to pass if she really wanted to speed whilst driving directly into a setting sun.

I have heard of people driving full circles round middle laners

drive at 70 inside lane, go to outside lane to overtake them, then back to inside lane when you are past - then lift off slowly and let them pass you, then move to the outside lane to overtake them.....

what really annoys me is the driving down the sliproad at 45/50 then entering at that speed, then accelerating.... just ignorant

I once spent some time (when I was not under time pressure to be somewhere) piddling along in the left hand lane at a speed appropriate with the traffic around me (whether it was 50 or 70).

I cannot tell you how relaxing it was. No pressure of traffic behind trying to push you around. Just cruising along in a little populated lane, watching plenty of stressed people fighting for space to save 2 minutes on their journey.

It was a real pleasure. It was more economical, a more steady journey and much less stressful.

Everyone should try it sometime. It's an experience.

And yes, I know sometimes we're in a rush but as a change it is strangely gratifying.

Regarding the slip road thing, I was once driving down a slip road to get onto the motorway behind somebody doing 50. I thought that was a bit slow so hung back to give myself space. They then braked. Aaaaagh!

pymwymis - Member

I cannot tell you how relaxing it was. No pressure of traffic behind trying to push you around. Just cruising along in a little populated lane, watching plenty of stressed people fighting for space to save 2 minutes on their journey.

Aye- lovely way to cover distance, zen-like almost, made the trip from betws-y-coed to the borders go lovely (though, did seem to inspire me to drive like an axe murderer up the a-roads, ah well)

Richmtb your e-net personality is tuff, but you yourself driving in 2nd lane faster than others expect people to move out of your way? Really? It sounds like you not much different from others but pretend to be superior yet can't cut it enough to just drive in overtaking lane like executives do. Huh.

I'm sure that all made sense in your head before you typed it, what is an e-net by the way?

Lanes 2 and 3 [i]are[/i] overtaking lanes, lane 1 is for all traffic [i]unless overtaking[/i]

Its really not that hard to understand. As I've already pointed out it's such a simple rule that there is only two reasons people would ignore it, a combination of laziness and selfishness or general ignorance

I play the motorway delta game with myself sometimes. Objective is to not affect anyone else's speed wherever possible and to maintain your own speed at what you want as much as possible.

It means I have to USE MY MIRRORS properly and judge what cars are coming up behind me at what closing speed and judge whether there will be a space for them to use the outside lane when they get to me or whether I should use the space on the inside lane between the lorry I'm on my way past and the next one which is a few hundred meters ahead of it, to avoid them having to slow for me.

Also got to be aware of and anticipate what people are doing around me and if moving in and out of the inside lane be careful not to get myself blocked so that I have to temporarily slow because someone is passing me as I come up on the slower vehicle ahead in the inside lane. It's preferable that I don't slow my speed and if that means moving earlier out to the middle lane and causing someone in that lane to move out and past me then that's all good. Welcome to the symphony.

People who are driving to relax, being lazy, talking on their phone, or just auto-locking onto the car in front can f... off. This is driving, perhaps one of the more tasking things you ask yourself to do in your day, be a little more ****g aware and give it a bit more bloody effort.

I once spent some time (when I was not under time pressure to be somewhere) piddling along in the left hand lane at a speed appropriate with the traffic around me (whether it was 50 or 70).

I cannot tell you how relaxing it was.

I quite like towing a caravan for this reason. It's really chilled, even more so when it's quiet. It looks like you're going so much slower (even though it's not that much of a difference in terms of time) that you can relax a lot more and it's surprisingly much easier mentally.

It's harder on SC roads though, becuase you are always monitoring who's behind you and where your next place is to pull over.

It's harder on SC roads though

Pro Tip:

Single Carriageway ? 1 lane

Dual Carriageway ? 2 lanes

I suspect this confusion is one of the reasons that many people have no idea what the national speed limit is on single and dual carriageways. 🙂

Don't be a smartarse, you know what I mean. I know full well the difference, but the number of multi lane single carriageway roads is quite small so I used a shorthand.

Don't be a smartarse?

[img] [/img]

It's what we do. 😉

the number of multi lane single carriageway roads is quite small so I used a shorthand.

So sort of like calling a panda a zebra? 😀

Yes, just like that.

There are loads of multi-lane single carriageway stretches round here by the way. The A69 from Carlisle to Newcastle springs to mind - which flip flops between 1 and 2 lane, single and dual.

The accepted practise there seems to be to tootle along the 1-lane single carriageway at 50mph; get to a 2-lane bit and accelerate to 70; then drop back down to 50 when it goes back to 1-lane. Or spot the speed camera and slam on the brakes to 40! 😕

I drive that road fairly often that's probably why it is a touchy point for me 😀

[i]Regarding the slip road thing, I was once driving down a slip road to get onto the motorway behind somebody doing 50. I thought that was a bit slow so hung back to give myself space. They then braked. Aaaaagh! [/i]

I've actually had somebody stop in front of me on the slip road before because they were incapable of matching speed and merging with the traffic. Fortunately I could see what was going to happen so hung back to give myself room and joined the motorway going around them.

On tailgaters:

Woman this morning practically nudging my bumper. Flashed the brake lights at her a couple of times, but worryingly that made absolutely no difference. She didn't react at all.

Not sure where she expected me to go exactly: I was in the right-hand lane because I was turning right ahead, and I was doing 30 in the 40 because we were approaching the back of a long traffic queue.

If any confirmation were needed she then demonstrated her superior driving skills by pulling out of the queue [url= https://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=54.96361,-1.606665&spn=0.004238,0.013078&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=54.963757,-1.606515&panoid=n8CIfup-C6nXRlXtSfqSrw&cbp=12,33.86,,0,4.13 ]from here[/url] into the opposite lane and driving directly at the oncoming traffic, forcing them to brake and swerve around her, so she could skip ahead to the empty right-hand filter lane at the front of the queue - which she then used to go straight on. 😯

I play the motorway delta game with myself sometimes. Objective is to not affect anyone else's speed wherever possible and to maintain your own speed at what you want as much as possible.

Isn't that just, er, driving? I mean it's how I drive on the motorway pretty much all the time - didn't realise it was a game.

I can't stand the people who vary their speed wildly.

Last time I drove down the M1 (up round the Nottingham/Derby stretch), I had the cruise control on at 70mph and I passed, and re-passed the same car about half a dozen times. He'd come storming past me at 80+, a mile later I'd see him doing 55, then he'd come past again a little later - repeat to fade. Thing is, I never once touched the cruise control, it was just this guy was incapable of holding a steady speed.

Isn't that just, er, driving? I mean it's how I drive on the motorway pretty much all the time - didn't realise it was a game.

Well yes, but I think the point is for a big proportion of drivers techniques like forward planning and using mirrors are seen as some sort of crazy high falutin' advanced driving skill they don't need to bother with - a bit like left foot braking or double declutching.

Using mirrors and lanes correctly? That's crazy talk, they aren't Nigel Mansell so just let them driving along in the middle lane without a care in the world!

I can't stand the people who vary their speed wildly.

It's a strange thing to do, but if they are using the correct lane and pull back in when they have overtaken, I can't really see how it causes anyone any inconvenience ?

(As long as they aren't pulling in front of you and slowing down straight away causing you to take evasive action obviously !)

It does result in you having to change lanes to overtake more than you would otherwise, but you're right, it's not something which boils my piss - maybe a little 🙄 (though obviously not while I'm driving 😉 - oh and not that either).

Though for a more irritating variation on that game, try driving around at highish speed with kayaks on your roof (I imagine bikes on the roof has a similar effect, but not quite as good a one). Inevitably you'll come across some driver who's insulted by being overtaken by a car with a roof load and has to overtake you back, then immediately drops back to the speed they want to do as soon as they've pulled back in in front.

but if they are using the correct lane and pull back in when they have overtaken, I can't really see how it causes anyone any inconvenience ?

The issue with pulling back in between lorries is this:

You can have someone sat behind you perfectly happily, with good stopping distance, but as soon as you pull in they almost certainly will start to speed up a bit. I'm guessing it's a psychological effect, it's so widespread*. But the end result is that by the time you reach the next lorry and want to pull out they'll be along side you and you have to brake.

* just like people who pull in behind a lorry so they can exit, and then accelerate up the sliproad only to brake again for the roundabout 100 yards later. Waste of fuel for no gain.

It's a strange thing to do, but if they are using the correct lane and pull back in when they have overtaken, I can't really see how it causes anyone any inconvenience ?

It's usually a symptom of them not concentrating fully.
Drive along at (eg) 70mph, adjust satnav, speed drops to 55.
Increase speed to 70 again, take a drink of coffee, speed drops to 55.

Just forces other traffic to change lane around them, which while not the end of the world, increases stress and the chance of an accident.

The issue with pulling back in between lorries is this

Agreed.

The other issue is that [i]if you actually care about maintaining proper stopping distances[/i] (rare) then you need a fairly large gap between the vehicles to make it worthwhile pulling in.

e.g. if you try to stick to [i]"only a fool breaks the 2-second rule"[/i] at 70mph then you shouldn't be closer than ~205ft (62m) to the vehicle in front.

So if you intend to pull in between two vehicles you'd want to be 205ft in front of the first one with another 205ft in front of you till the second - PLUS whatever distance you'll cover in the speed differential between you and the vehicle in front while folk overtake you.

That's quite a big distance - and results in people driving up behind you and complaining you are "hogging" the middle lane by not pulling in when it is "clear".