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Still thinking about this but last thread focussed on bigger bikes than I want - what's a useable, safe-ish, not fast motorbike from 60-70s for short trips in /near town...prefer something with flair (Euro) or Jap (and def not Brit)?
I don't want to get a big bike cos it'll be too fast and I'll kill myself...thinking 125-250.
I saw a nice 75 1960s Duke on the last thread...
Nothing meets the criteria apart from maybe a MZ 250. Those small bikes are simply not usable safely in modern traffic, too slow, rubbish brakes and handling. Expensive and no spares available.
Avoid early Ducatis like the plague - same goes for anything else Italian. Electrics are absolutely vile and you'll spend more time fettling it than riding it.
If I'm only in town or on quiet roads do I need the speed?
What's the closest alternative...something bigger from the same era?
Or an ancient Honda 125,as seen throughout the world. You can even buy more modern ones!
What about an old Kawasaki KH ?
If you can find a Honda CG125, that would be ideal. 4-stroke, great fuel economy, reliable. They were launched in 1976. I used to load mine up with tent and stuff and go camping trips into the Highlands.
Yes you most definitely should. Motorbikes are hawt. Can i bagsy first backie? 🙂should I?
A Honda Cub, as used throughout Asia, or maybe an old Velocette, as used nowhere.
Avoid early Ducatis like the plague - same goes for anything else Italian. Electrics are absolutely vile and you'll spend more time fettling it than riding it.
I'm not sure that's fair. Avoid all but the newest Ducatis (see above), but for truly old stuff they'll all be a nightmare so you're back to a level playing field. Older stuff has simple electrics which helps as long as you're comfortable replacing the lot anything should be OK.
How about a Honda CD Benly (various versions and capacities)?
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The main thing to check on anything you fancy is the availability of parts.
Or this small-engined moped
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But realistically, what about the old Super Dream 250?
Actually... a CD90 might be ideal.
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Like this one on [url= http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HONDA-CD90Z-1969-GOOD-CONDITION-/110707272593 ]ebay...[/url]
Modern versions of the engines are still being made, including Chinese copies, so parts are cheap and plentiful. For £100 you could slot in a new engine. For a bit more you could have a new 140cc engine.
Thanks all....this sort of thing might fit the bill?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1975-HONDA-CB-125-GREEN-/330582506765?pt=UK_Motorcycles&hash=item4cf840bd0d
Aren't most of the above going to fall apart if used all year round in our British weather ?
I reckon most would become tiresome as everyday transport.
Thanks all....this sort of thing might fit the bill?http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1975-HONDA-CB-125-GREEN-/330582506765?pt=UK_Motorcycles&hash=item4cf840bd0d
Oh that looks ideal, in fact the first owner of that stood on the brake when he rode it out of the shop, It should have just about stopped by now.
I'd not touch a Ducati, new or old if it were free. My mates 1198 has just been taken back to the shop after it lost all its electrics and tried to highside him on a round-about. And then there's the parts prices....
Any old bike is going to require a fair bit of spannering. My money would be on the SuperDream - its honda so it won't break, parts will be cheap and you can make them look pretty cool. Theres a fair few flat track ones about which look mint.
Thanks all....this sort of thing might fit the bill?http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1975-HONDA-CB-125-GREEN-/330582506765?pt=UK_Motorcycles&hash=item4cf840bd0d
Yes, that's ideal.
Again, that engine is still in production by the Chinese so you could get a new Chinese engine for the price of an OEM piston.
A CB125 is one of the most terrifying bikes I have ridden in modern times. I know I have been spoilt by decent disk brakes. The CB125 I rode had practically no brakes. My mountain bike has better brakes.
That's true of all 60s/70s bikes. And 80s...
It will be shit and dangerous. Rubbish brakes, slow, rubbish handling, ancient tyres
Hmmmm a spectrum of opinions as ever!
It'd be good-weather use only for short trips, nothing fast needed, but safety and brakes are obviously a concern.
Any good noo8-friendly motorbike forums out there?
If you want brakes that work you need to forget 60s/70s stuff. You can of course fit modern stuff. A complete front end swap is easy with a bit of research.
A modern retro styled bike will be easier and cheaper though.
I saw a nice 75 1960s Duke on the last thread...
No such thing, except as a wall ornament. You really don't want the hassle of actually using it for commuting. Nice bike though. 🙂
As many others have said it is hard to beat the small Honda for reliability.
My opinion is many small motorbikes are more dangerous than big ones. Areas like suspension and braking are built down to the price point.
I'd look at at least a 250 aircooled 4 stroke. Sufficient acceleration to keep ahead of the lads in their penis substitute cars, and light on tyres, chains etc. Also light enough to crash cheaply - don't usually bend much.
(Big bikes are less economical than small cars when you add up all the ownership costs although loads more fun)
If you've only ridden modern bikes, an old one will come as a bit of a shock - they really, apart from the odd one, weren't very good, even when new.
If you're used to old bikes or haven't ridden at all, then go for it!
If you must have an old one, something like an MZ would be quirky, easy to fix and great fun, as would a Honda CB250RS.
An older trail bike would be great fun, but prices are rising and spares can be hard to find.
In your situation, I'd go for a more modern trail bike, something like a Yamaha 225 Serow or a Suzuki DR350/400 - great bikes that can also do some proper off roading.
I'd look at at least a 250 aircooled 4 stroke. Sufficient acceleration to keep ahead of the lads in their penis
Are you sure? My CB250 Superdream wasn't up to much in the 80s. 80mph flat out, 0-60 took forever. It wouldn't even wheelie. I doubt it could outdrag the slowest of cars these days. I guess it was faster than a 4 stroke 125 but it was slower than a 2 stroke 125. By a lot.
Why do you want vintage?
5thElefant - Member
" I'd look at at least a 250 aircooled 4 stroke. Sufficient acceleration to keep ahead of the lads in their penis"
Are you sure? My CB250 Superdream wasn't up to much in the 80s...
Fair point. Should make it clear I was meaning about urban use.
My experience of the small Hondas was in Oz - I think your bikes here were restricted for learners etc.
But I'm still sure they would beat just about any car in a traffic light derby.
OK just to recap:
It's not for commuting.
It's not for offroad.
It's for the odd good-weather trip in town or <50 miles on B-roads.
I don't want something fast* as I really do think I might kill myself, though 50cc would be too wee.
I've never riddden a motorbike before.
I want Vintage because of * above, fun & character - but safety is important too.
I'd rather have an "honest" bike than a retro-styled one - if the best thing is a recent 125/250 then that might be it.
250s weren't restricted. The Superdream was a particular slug though. It was built to mimic a 750 but without the power. The 250RS would be as you described.
The OP wants something for using in and around town, where the average speed of a car is less than 15mph. The fact that an old Japanese 125 wouldn't break 70mph is somewhat irrelevant.
Get an eighties single cylinder, like say an Yamaha SRX 250, 400 or 600cc (if you fancy a bit more umphf) or similar as they'll have decent brakes be reasonable speedy (enough to keep up with traffic with out ragging it) and be reasonably economical and look lovely too as well as not needing to be fettled on a regular basis, classic are great but time consuming which'll mean les time on your pedal cycles 😉
If I pass my Big Girls licence this year can flog you my 125. One careful lady owner... Serviced regularly and I even clean it.
They hold their value well so you won't lose a lot, and the only advice I can add to this thread is that motorbikering isn't for everybody. Don't lay down loads of cash until you are sure.
Every time I get on my wee bike, even just to get to work, I reflect on how awesometastic and legend motorbikes are.
You need to listen to the advice. Small old bikes are really shit. Bigger bikes are no more dangerous.
Old Euro stuff was not imported into the UK so the spares and dealer backup will not be available.
Want a vintage bike then a BSA bantam is a good starting point. Available, cheap. spares and expertise available. No small vintage bike will be at all practicable or safe.
Old jap stuff is around but expensive and spares can be a real issue apart from stuff like the CG.
Just want the style - get a retro
**** me I am SOLD!
http://www.classicmotorcycles.org.uk/classicbikes/cb_honda_cb250rs.htm
Hmmm can anyone fill me in on tests etc? TJ said £500, is that about right?
If you want decent brakes and suspension you can either buy a vintage bike and upgrade it. That's more than fine if you want to do that, but a modern bike will be cheaper (probably) and less hassle (certainly).
There are degrees of retro. There are many traditional looking bikes that have looked more or less the same since the 80s as well as newly produced models made to look like something out of the 70s.
The Yamaha SRX is a good example of a modern(ish) bike in traditional form. Various capacities were made.
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My CB250 Superdream wasn't up to much in the 80s. 80mph flat out, 0-60 took forever. It wouldn't even wheelie. I doubt it could outdrag the slowest of cars these days. I guess it was faster than a 4 stroke 125 but it was slower than a 2 stroke 125. By a lot.
I had a pre-resriction CB125TB (16bhp) and that could keep up with Superdream 250's no problem and my deristricted AR125LC was definitely quicker.
Like other posters have said I'd also suggest moving up to at least the 80's if you're looking for something that's reasonably practical. I'd also agree that moving up to 400 or 500cc would also be worthwhile. The 250 Superdream wasn't a good bike but the 400cc version was better. The single-cylinder CB250RS was a good bike but it might be difficult finding a decent one now as they tended to be used as workhorses.
I'd suggest something like a Hond 400-4, a Kawasaki Z400J or even a Honda XBR500 like mine.
**** me I am SOLD!http://www.classicmotorcycles.org.uk/classicbikes/cb_honda_cb250rs.htm
Hmmm can anyone fill me in on tests etc? TJ said £500, is that about right?
You could do worse.
My lad did a weekend training course type thing with a test at the end (4 years ago). That was £500 I think.
My ex has a new Guzzi V7 classic - stood next to a 1979 version of the same bike its nigh on identical, but with fuel injection, better brakes and stuff. Like this
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It still breaks down on a regular basis like a proper Guzzi too...
cb250 RS is a good bike. its not vintage, its not euro and its not small - still fits your criteria eh?
Then I think you're looking for a Suzuki Goose.
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[url= http://www.suzukigoose.co.uk/ ]pic from suzukigoose.co.uk[/url]
You're very old if you think a 25 year old bike isn't vintage. You're a midget if you think it's not small. It's not euro though 😉
A Morini 350 might just fit the bill:
Italian, stylish, economical, great handling, decent brakes, mechanically reliable, reasonable parts avaliability, quite a few about.
Might be a bit too powerful and the electics, as Druidh said, might be a bit interesting.
North Leicestershire Motorbikes (NLM) usually have a good selection.
Can't post a pic at the mo, but they really are beautiful.
Test information
Its a bit different now to how it was 4 years ago (when I did mine). Its split into two seperate practical tests + a theory. I'd done a theory when I did my driving test but still had to do another one, not sure how you stand on that front.
All in, it cost my previous SO around the £800 mark with lessons, tests and so on. I'm sure its possible to do it for less, but she felt confident enough to get on my sports bike at the time (CBR600) and trundle round on it, which I doubt she would had she done one of those 'do it in a weekend' type courses.
Also, big bikes might seem a bit scary now, but believe me you soon get used to the speed and power and lower powered bikes start feeling dangerous. I remember walking into a bike shop when I had my first bike (a hornet) and laughing with fear when the sales bloke suggested a go on a Daytona 675. Two months later I'd bought a fireblade....
You want proper retro cool? You need a fizzy
A Morini 350 might just fit the bill
A friend of mine had one of those (an trail bike) - nice little bike although it was a nightmare to kickstart sometimes.
You want proper retro cool? You need a fizzy
And deep pockets if you want a good one now!
You want proper retro cool? You need a fizzy
[b]And deep pockets if you want a good one now![/b]
I know! That's just mad when you consider how common they were!
TandemJeremy - Member
cb250 RS is a good bike. its not vintage, its not euro and its not small - still fits your criteria eh?
It's vintage enough if folk (as you are) say older stuff is unsafe.
It's "small" in my eyees - I did way up to 250 did I not?
I said Jap was OK too - folk are saying Euro stuff will be a nightmare.
in summary...leave it! 😀
TJ, CB250RS's are not big bikes.
Honest, I've had two and I'm only 5 foot 6.
Big problem is that the cam runs directly in the head, so wear isn't an easy fix
Brilliant bikes though, I'd love a good one.
Al (can I call you that?) - consider that you'll do your test on at least a 500cc bike. A vintage 250 will feel dog slow and you'll be ringing its neck everywhere, which is far more dangerous than a leisurely ride round on a bigger bike. As for vintage stuff, when you first pass you'll be so excited about riding a bike around, you won't care what it looks like. You will care however when yuo're stood on the hard shoulder with it smoking away merrily.
If you want a retro bike, have a look at the w650 Kawasaki. 650 sounds a lot but its not, horsepower wise it'll be similar to the bandit/cb500 you do your test on. And you can make em look like this
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Rusty / 5th - I know that. Its just nothing like what cycnic al originally started asking about. A good bike in its day but when did you last see one? Are they not all dead now?
Flange - yo are absolutly right - w650 or triumph retro would be the perfect thing
[url= http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/bikes-for-sale/searchresults/detail/Honda/CB250/1980/_/R-NXGN-7560390 ]One CB250rs in MCN[/url]
[url= http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/bikes-for-sale/searchresults/detail/Kawasaki/W650/2005/_/R-NXGN-7561582 ]one w 650[/url]
Loads and loads of triumphs
I don't want to get a big bike cos it'll be too fast and I'll kill myself
I used to think this. Once you start riding, you realise that having something that is faster than other traffic and that has brakes that work properly is actually much safer.
60+ mph on a naked bike [i]feels[/i] pretty damn quick.
My usage is much as the same as your intended use and my Ducati Monster does a great job of it. £1500 up gets a 600 or 620 which is ace as a first bike.
Ah OK ta all....not interested in English or retro though....am interest4ed in cheapness, which is why bottom of the curve 80s Jap is looking appealing.
Why is the "bigger bikes are safer" thing about power/speed?
Why not take your test and see how you feel after you have done a bit of riding.
As people have said you will be riding a 500cc bike for your test and your views might change.
The Mrs has a Suzuki gn125 and I quite like it to look at and ride but I defo feel safer on a bigger bike . Worth a look the its cheap to buy, fix, service, tax, run and insure
will be riding a 500cc bike for your test
That's the accelerated DAS test? You need a 125 for the wee-er one?
Firestarter..."worth a look" - the Suzie?
Tests keep changing but I think now they are the same for any size bike.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/LearnerAndNewDrivers/PracticalTest/DG_178328
As for vintage stuff, when you first pass you'll be so excited about riding a bike around, you won't care what it looks like. You will care however when yuo're stood on the hard shoulder
Exact!
Yeah al I like it myself but some don't. Pardon the bottom end of the garden/dump 😉
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That's nice.
How about this? 2003 - better brakes?
My wife had one of those like Suzuki 125's as her first bike. It was ok if a bit slow. The only reason I occasionally rode it was because it's the easiest bike I've ridden to get the pegs down on!
Rusty / 5th - I know that. Its just nothing like what cycnic al originally started asking about. A good bike in its day but when did you last see one? Are they not all dead now?
Yeah, as Rusty Spanner said they do have a flaw in the head design. Common to the XR series, Dominators etc. So finding a live one and keeping it that way may be a challenge.
But... I'm pretty sure the engine is still made by the Chineses (again). I believe they're used in quad bikes amongst other things.
Al, I would wait (as bazzer says ^^) as your views/requirements/desires may change fairly dramatically once you've done a bit of riding.
Small bikes may look like a 'safe' bet at this stage but it's unlikely that you will be satisfied when you've actually ridden for any length of time.
Having said that - you really couldn't go wrong with any of these
[url= http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1980-V-REG-HONDA-CD-200-BENLY-TWIN-BARN-FIND-ORIGINAL-/170650122743?pt=UK_Motorcycles&hash=item27bb8a39f7 ]Honda Benley[/url] or [url= http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Honda-CD175-/280702498942?pt=UK_Motorcycles&hash=item415b2c387e ]CD175[/url] or [url= http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HONDA-CB100-1-OFF-CAFE-RACER-PRICE-SLASHED-/110704352857?pt=UK_Motorcycles&hash=item19c67e5e59 ]Something really different !![/url]
I think given Al's requirements, basically pootling about as you would on a bicycle anything with an engine would actually be safer than... a bicycle.
250RS's were ace but as has been said they are pretty much extinct now due to cylinder head going. Commonly cracking round the spark plug hole. Shame. I see a Superdream pretty much every day but tbf, they were crap when they came put and you don't see many of them now. There is a reason for this.
MZ 250 is not a bad shout if you can put up with the, er, looks.
Ta guys.
Am wondering about just getting a 125, see how it goes, upgrade if I want adn not lose too much £££?
The benefit of having a 125 is that it'll be much easier to sell on when you're bored of it - folks always want 125's due to only needing a CBT. Me personally, if I was thinking about doing my test I'd just get on and get it booked. You'll probably still need a CBT, plus insurance, kit and a bike. You'll pay nearly as much for a decent 125 as you would a 500/600. A CB500 would be an ace first bike, or a 400 super dream. And they hardly EVER go wrong. Unlike a highly stressed, wobbly 125.
<£1000 should get you something decent like a bandit, plenty of parts available, easy('ish) to work on and will never lose much money. Buy at the right time of year (eg not summer) and sell at the right time (eg summer) and you'll make money. I've never lost money on a bike yet
Hmmmm....thanks.
If you're determined to go the 125 route, I'd again go Honda. Yes, I'm a honda fan, but for a reason - every other bike make has given me grief.
CG 125 sounds like a winner then
I don't want to spaff £££ when I've never even swung a leg over a bike...if I can get and ride a 125 at minimal cost, try it for a bit, upgrade or sell on without much loss, it seems a winner.
Will take me a while to save so end of summer for buying sounds great.
All you need is CBT for a 125, which you usually do on a hire bike, so you can do it before you get a bike. Which could be a good way to see if you actually enjoy riding one.
Hmmm £160 for CBT including hire, sounds OK.
GET MORE TRAINING THAN JUST A CBT BEFORE YOU HIT THE ROADS - OR YOU WILL HIT THE ROADS - FACE FIRST
How much do you charge?
Al-If you'd like the vintage look but not the vintage tyres/brakes take a look a t the modern Enfields.
All 400cc 28bhp.Lots of variants cafe racer/electra clubman/scrambler or woodsman I think its called.
Nice on a nice Sunday and ok for a trip 'bout town.A lot more reliable than the older ones.
Someone may have suggested this on the other thread but I lost interest.
If you're serious about a bike as others have said get some miles and some training in.
Good luck,have fun and take care on the roads....I declined a duel with an Audi on the M4 this morning-they are all out to get you.
Chris
[i]I want Vintage because of * above, fun & character - but safety is important too.[/i]
[i]I've never riddden a motorbike before.[/i]
I guessed the second comment, after reading the first...
The problem you've got is that due to the government putting off people biking since the late 70's a decent volume of small-mid sized bikes have pretty much dried up. Once the 125cc restriction came in, all the sub 400cc bikes pretty much disappeared - and the 400cc ones are usually fine (in size) for your average Asian, but...
An Enfield might look great (and tbh I'm in India at the moment and they sound great compared to the Hero Hondas and the various copies), but you'll soon tire of the 50's style (and go) - just as you would an Oxford Cambridge or the like.
I ran 250/350 2-strokes when younger, mainly due to not having the cash for anything bigger and/or not wanting a Honda 🙂 Its a shame this size of bike has disappeared, as they were full sized and would easily outdrag most things.
Al the one you linked to on ebay is same as my mrs hers is 2003 too. We got ours via ebay as it was local I went to view and asked best price I got it for 625 knowing it needed fork seals doing but that was cheap enough to sort.
You will always be able to sell on a 125 as said above.
Cbt with bike hire round our way at most places is 100 some a bit more some less
GET MORE TRAINING THAN JUST A CBT BEFORE YOU HIT THE ROADS - OR YOU WILL HIT THE ROADS - FACE FIRST
Remember, this is cynic-al