[Closed] Motion Smoothing, Tom Cruise and your TV

So that's why my in-laws TV always looks like Neighbours from the 90s!

I've owned two Sony Bravia TVs and switched it off each time.

I used to work in games, so this has probably influenced my way of thinking - turn all the extra stuff off and watch it as the makers intended it to be watched!

I read the thing yesterday and meant to have a look at the telly settings last night, but forgot...

This has been bugging me for a while, it is really obvious to me when settings haven't been changed and decent films look like Home and Away.

I'm no tech geek but on each of my TV's I've followed simple you tube guides to changing settings to soften the image, worked a treat each time.

Incidentally though, my Mrs reckons she can't see the difference. She also reckons she can't see the difference between HD and SD though...

it's just so they can show you subliminal adverts for his cult between frames, innit

"Motion Smoothing"

*s****s*

so who has gone and delved in the menu? or carried on regardless? ignorance is bliss.

First thing I do with a new TV. RTings provide a good guide.

dont games need a higher refresh rate?

most TV's are going to show the 24fps movie at 50/60hz though so there is still interpolation or black frame insertion going on.

Given that most of the public can't / won't delve into menus, surely it would make sense to have three buttons on the remote such as Films / Sport / Games / TV and you can select the one you want.

Films don't look crap on my TV. The only reason they're better on cinema screens is cos cinema screens are 100x (approx) bigger.

I changed it on my LG last night after seeing the video.

Admittedly it was only on 3/10 for smoothing. But I don't see a difference.

“Motion Smoothing”

*s****s*

It put the motion in the basket

I can spot it instantly (and hate it) so it's the first thing I change on a new TV (and on relatives TVs)

Tom Cruise's face has been extensively smoothed over recent years, so I'm wondering why he's that bothered.

they didn’t notice until i pointed out it was unwatchable

hang on a minute...

My TV's too old for all that nonsense anyway, I count myself lucky it's got an on/off switch.

Modern TV's don't have a refresh rate..that is a throwback from old scanning CRT tube TV's. Modern panel displays don't refresh so you're limited to whatever the refresh rate is of the media you're watching. Also if you're watching a DVD or BR then they have the option of outputting in true 24 frames a second so there should be no 'interpolation' between frames - you can watch it in its native format. Not sure how this works with streamed content.

I always turn off any image 'enhancements' and focus on the incoming media and make sure it is being shown in the optimal format. Having said that i'm still on Plasma so not that familiar with the latest crop of TV's - maybe they need it. I always think the latest tech TV's produce an image that looks unrealistic anyway...contrast is always way too high and intensity of colours way too great which makes everything looks a bit artificial/cartoony to my eye.

Nearly took our current TV back until I turned off this feature. Trying to watch F1 when the cars flicker in and out of existence is rubbish.

MrSmith

Member
dont games need a higher refresh rate?

most TV’s are going to show the 24fps movie at 50/60hz though so there is still interpolation or black frame insertion going on.

Well a lot of cheaper TVs don't natively support 24P and will therefore just duplicate a frame every now and then resulting in a slight judder on panning shots when 24P media is played, but otherwise looking pretty good.

That's different to the high-FPS 'intelligent' interpolation Tom is talking about which gives the weird soap opera effect.

I've no idea about any Tom Cruise article, but most TVs are set up terribly out of the box.  And gods help you if you've got an ex-demo unit that's been set up to try and out-contrast 30 other sets in the showroom.  This isn't a new phenomenon, it's been the way of things for years.

The first thing I'd do with any new TV is spend an afternoon setting it all up properly and turning off most of the stupid artificial 'enhancements.' If you don't know how then you can probably search for your model number on avforums where someone else has already done it.

I honestly don't know what you lot are saying, or trying to explain.

I have a Sony something or other and it just works (two yrs old, so to some of you that's probably a fossil in disguise).

Looks fine to me..

Should anyone want to post what the ekerslike I'm suppose to look at in the menu/settings then I'll take a gander...

💁‍♂️

This is the video the OP is on about, it'd seem.

https://twitter.com/TomCruise/status/1070071781757616128

I see this often on other peoples TVs and they just don't see it. I know you get used to what you have but I think some people are not sensitive to it.

On the other hand, I watch nearly everything on TV in SD, unless it something like Blue Planet I can't notice the difference.

I certainly won't be inflicting<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;"> Cruise's shitey film on my plasma </span>

Any feature that makes Tom Cruise harder to see can only be a good thing

I certainly won’t be inflicting<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”> Cruise’s shitey film on my plasma </span>

Mission Impossible: Rogue Forum

It's something I've always known about and controlled, but I don't have a TV, just a projector and they tend to be a little easier to set up specifically for film.
Any decent review (AVforums, for example) will usually guide you through these things as it's essential to how they do the test.

I wish I knew what I was supposed to be seeing - then I could be outraged, like Tom

... though taller

Ah, cheers drac

<reminds self never to watch movies at 1/12 normal speed>

🙄

Oh, I see the effects now.

My TV doesn’t look like The slowed down one so assume it’s fine.

Might have a look in AVForums though, just to see how some folks conversations ensue..

Some handle it better than others bikebouy, it's barely noticeable on mine part of the reason I chose it but I still adjusted the settings to my liking.

Hmmm. I'll have to check on this but haven't noticed it on my telly & I'm normally quite sensitive (anal) about things like that.

i think it messes with the depth too, add that to the upscaling from SD to HD if done badly making it worse.
i noticed this on a hotel TV where the film looked like a video shot on a small sensor camera not ‘cinematic’ in any way. TV must have had everything turned on and all sliders to the right.

Motion Impossible?

First thing I do is turn it all off. Dad had it active on his 55" Panasonic and i couldn't stand it. As soon as he left the room I grabbed the remote and turned it off, he noticed something had changed but it wasnt until I put it back on to show him he realised how bad it was when on.

When TV shopping always turn off the processing and take it out of high gamma mode etc. They set the TVs up for maximum impact in the shop to get your attention and make you think your TV at home is old rubbish.

Modern TV’s don’t have a refresh rate..that is a throwback from old scanning CRT tube TV’s. Modern panel displays don’t refresh so you’re limited to whatever the refresh rate is of the media you’re watching. Also if you’re watching a DVD or BR then they have the option of outputting in true 24 frames a second so there should be no ‘interpolation’ between frames – you can watch it in its native format. Not sure how this works with streamed content.

They do have a refresh-rate, but it doesn't mean the same thing as a CRT where the screen is blanked and refreshed 50/60 times a second. The display is still refreshed from buffer at a particular rate and often much higher rates than CRTs. It's all down to motion blur inherent with LCDs (and OLEDs etc) where just updating the pixels each frame causes our brain to see motion in a bit of a blur due to the persistence of a pixel on screen.

CRTs would be flickering at 50 or 60 times a second including a blanking frame which eliminated this issue as well as noticeable flickering. At the cinema, while projectors typically show 24fps films, the frame shutter runs twice per frame to reduce the flicker, so 48 times a second.

LCDs have gone further and ramped up to 120/240Hz etc and introduce interpolated frames to try to resolve the blurring, and that's where the soap opera effect comes in. This happens even with Blu Ray etc feeding 24p into the TV via HDMI. The frame rate is still 24fps (though better than the old days where it would involve pull down to reach 50Hz or 60Hz). The screen is refreshed though at a much higher rate.

Interesting bit on this here https://www.blurbusters.com/faq/oled-motion-blur/ (applies to plain LCD as well as OLED).

"I've taken a break from filming" but weirdly, I'm still in costume. So while I'm blathering on about some obscure setting on your telly that you've probably never heard of or are really bothered about, all the while you're thinking about the new Top Gun movie...

Do you get changed during your break?

a friend sits on a few discussion panels for the SMPTE so this has been mulled over a pint along with netflix data rates, 2k Alexa being better than 4k Red and other geekery.

As an owner of a Red Dragon 6K I would disagree strongly.

That debate has largely been put to bed nowadays, in that most of these high-end cameras can be all made to look fantastic.

The people that care will have already turned this off. The people that don't care won't bother.

“That debate has largely been put to bed nowadays, in that most of these high-end cameras can be all made to look fantastic.”

Was more about how some great work was /still is shot on it (Alexa) yet technically it’s not good enough for Netflix.

And yes most high end cameras (even just HD) have had a hand in some great work (like the first cinealta but let’s forget the Star Wars ones)

First thing we did on bringing a Samsung 60" TV home was put the Blu Ray of Star Wars on. And immediately we both thought 'shit, that looks terrible'. That's me the tech nerd and Mrs Grips the absolutely not tech nerd. A quick google led me to the above setting, and it was fixed.

I cannot understand why manufacturers would default their tellies to such a crap setting!

Was more about how some great work was /still is shot on it (Alexa) yet technically it’s not good enough for Netflix

For sure. That's the original content - they just have a a 4K remit that's all.

There is still Alexa stuff on there.

Also this motion smoothness - which is terrible - highlights the general issues that most display devices are nowhere near their best and have all manner of crap turned on, and even then are still not necessarily I'm the correct picture profile and then not calibrated.

This is an age old problem.

This is an age old problem.

Yep.
We've even had motion interpolation since 100hz CRT TVs. It was crap then. Some people seem to like it with live sports, but that's about all I can say positive about it. I have no idea why it's still very high up in the manufacturer's marketing material.

But as rone says - it's not just motion interpolation. There's quite a bit to picture calibration. Thankfully some of the big manufacturers are starting to include some profiles that are pretty close out of the box. Certainly true of JVC, Sony and Panasonic projectors and high end TVs.

I find the old Sony Bravia's awful for this, agree with the above, those that notice these things would have turned it off, those that dont wont.

two questions:
- why does Netflix HD run through Virgin cable not support Dolby 5.1?
- why does everyone on ITV* look a funny colour compared to other channels, even ignoring the fake tan effect

* I don't watch ITV, honest

Any feature that makes Tom Cruise harder to see can only be a good thing

Yep.

I found a guide in avforums about this, it’s really simple.

Havent done it yet..

I can spot it instantly (and hate it) so it’s the first thing I change on a new TV (and on relatives TVs)

It's infuriating. Add to that the default "vivid" colour settings and a load of edge enhancement and everything ends up with some weird 'viewmaster' 3d type effect as well. I turned everything off on my in laws TV but the next time I went back they'd turned it all back on. I avoid sitting in front of anything i actually want to enjoy when i'm there now.

the 'movie' or 'cinema' default settings are usually bearable on most sets if you don't want to delve deep in the settings but the usual rule is all formss of enhancement off. When you switch from showroom settings it can look quite 'dull' until your eyes adjust. I'm guessing that's what puts people off (or that thing of 'must use all technology which had the same people watching 4:3 shows in 'stretch and crop' mode when they bought a widescreen TV.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/tom-cruise-motion-smoothing
When I bought my Bravia, in 2007, I had a look at AVForums for tips on setting it up. Over several days I spent quite a lot of time tweaking the basic suggestions from AVForums, and I’ve not changed it since.

Turn all the enhanced picture settings off, read AV Forums re: your model tv and sit back and enjoy.

On the other hand, I watch nearly everything on TV in SD, unless it something like Blue Planet I can’t notice the difference.

You are kidding, right? I know in an instant when Mrs STR has put something on in SD, it's terrible - not just the picture, but the sound too

Incidentally though, my Mrs reckons she can’t see the difference. She also reckons she can’t see the difference between HD and SD though…

Are you married to my wife? How she can't notice it I don't know.

+1.

The number of times I've walked into the room and thought, "christ, have I developed cataracts?"

Just checked my 5 year old panny, can't find this feature at all.

Not touched our Samsung TV, and it has inputs from SMART TV, a PC under it and anything else.

Only stuff that looks crap, is ITV player/Iplayer when they can't upscale. Netflix/Amazon is great, Redbull, not fab due to throughput.

I've watched some old movies via Netflix and Amazon that I never thought could happen.... Home Alone etc, really old stuff, really good detail.... Not touched the Samsung telly settings.

Watching a 1990 movie via Netflix now, that shows actors spots too well....

Even SD is better than OK over terrestrial...

Dunno, some telly's are set up differently...

Samsung TV all the way in our family.... no complaints from anyone.

Well I did it, I think I must have done it when I bought it because all that motion smoothing stuff was turned off.

So I flicked through the settings, then decided to leave it as it is.

👍

Thanks Tom, you are awesome.