[Closed] More van musings - what MWB for camper conversion?

Fiat Ducato/Citroen/Peugeot MWB ~5.4m

Look at spookys new camper build thread

Ducato with 3.0 diesel, only available in the Fiat variant. Plenty of space for underslung tanks, know a couple of guys that have converted these.
One guy has a double garage with bed above. One half is for bikes/motor bike and the other half is dog cage.

The benefit of a Ducato/Relay/Boxer is that you can sleep widthways unless you are unusually tall. That can save about 50cm of length.

Discounted the Ducato as the MoHo is Ducato based and its very cheap and nasty in the cab tbh, new shape might be an improvement though, will have a gander at the dimensions/prices.
Spookys the Iveco guru int he? Talk to me Spooky....

AlexSimon - Member
The benefit of a Ducato/Relay/Boxer is that you can sleep widthways unless you are unusually tall. That can save about 50cm of length.

Once you have insulation etc, the max bed width is about 5ft11 (so not that [i]unusually [/i]tall)

It depends where your bed is vertically, but I'd heard 6'2" is doable.
(6mm ply over metal work with insulation inside).
I'll check, because it's important for my build.

I can't go widthways In any of the relay conversions I've seen. -3 . They seem quite popular round here

I'd go with a LWB transit which is slightly bigger than a MWB sprinter/crafter. In fact I'd probably go for my rust free waxoyled 2007 welfare van that's for sale in the classifieds at a dirt cheap price!

Alex - it might be possible for a home-built van but nearly every van we looked at was a little short for me. I'm 6ft 1.5in

The LWB transit (old shape) is just about perfect dimensions wise and there's loads about. How prone to rusting are they and is it just the panels or are we talking chassis?

Wildax state 6'2" for the Solaris.
Globecar Globescout states 1,960mm which is 6'5" (don't know how they've managed that).
Auto Trail state 6'1" for the low bed in the Tribute and 5'10" for the high bed.

Possibly their beds are front to back.

My bed is 6ft 6 front to back and it's 5ft 10 wide. For midgets you might get 3 across haha

No, I only chose vans with transverse beds.
Looking at the Adria Twin 600, they state a 6'5" bed, but you can see that they've somehow gone in-between the pillars:

[img] [/img]
[img] [/img]

Anyway - I'm not trying to persuade anyone to put up with a short bed, but it's only way I can possibly fit 4 in mine, so I hope it's enough!

Surely that means minimal insulation in the walls no ?

A mwb is a good a good shout, from experience just about doable as a daily and plenty big enough. Transits are pretty cramped in the cab and they aren't the most reliable, don't see too many old ones about given how many they sold. I have a 2002 2.8 158 vw Lt mwb high roof which hasn't rusted too badly and goes like stink... as with all vans it depends if it's been looked after. Next van will be a sprinter most likely but I do like the look of ivecos and the new Renault master is the nicest looking new big van imho.

I'm guessing that too, although you can get better insulating products than kingspan, if you can give up a bit of weight or money.
Aerogel looks promising for e.g.

Despite being three different makes of the same van, theyre doesn't seem to be that many MWB Ducato's about with the high roof so probably off the list.
Plan for the layout is a pull out bed lengthways behind drivers seat so the extra width isnt necessary. Shower will be behind that, over the wheel arch for max awkwardness. Kitchen stuff on sliding door side. Small garage for bikes with front wheel off in the back doors - piece a piss! 😀
Loads of Transits, FWD or RWD?

RWD of course for STW style making progress!

FWD for slightly lower rear load area. Also a bit better in snow/mud

Whoever was asking about transits rusting - they go on the sills near the rear arches if not waxoyled, also under the front step area under the plastic footstep. They also pick up stone chips above the cab/windscreen which go snotty quickly. Not too bad though if you keep on top of them when you get a stonechip.

French are best for not rusting though.

Blatant plug
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/2007-transit-lwb-day-van-bike-hauler

Rnp where you based. I have a mate who's interested.

Cheers for that info Rusty, will have a good old gander where the sun doesn't shine..

Trail Rat
I'm in Rossendale (Lancashire) - 5mins from Lee Quarry, 20mins north of Manchester

im a transit man

the mk7 doesn't rust much, I've had 3 off them now

my camper build is nearly done !!

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/my-camper-van-transit-base-vehicle-not-transporter

RNP - just looked on your link to the van, that's something I was thinking of getting but did I read right that's £2.5k to insure?! If so how come?

Edit, just read it again and saw the first bit, blimey! What was insurance on something like this before that happened?

Hi Twang.

You got it right about the flappy side door, they can be a git to adjust and make water-tight.

Iveco - cheap, big, strong. Thinks its a truck. Can get a 5'11" bed if careful, I reckon you need an extra inch or so over your height to make it comfortable and not feel like the bed is too short. RWD = high floor.

Sprinter and Crafters = £££

Ducatos/Movano's etc, probably a fairly good choice but built to a price.

Transits - big beam above the windows makes it difficult (impossible?) to get a reasonably wide bed at a height that gives a garage with a useable space (although I did see a pro-conversion recently where the windows were higher so they must have cut out a lot of the metalwork)

You need to decide if you are going to try and squeeze in a sideways bed, or a dinette that converts. A fixed longways bed will take up most of the space in a MWB.

I just got my ducato mwb. The quality is a huge step up from previous 2008 model I had. Will be my only vehicle. Impressed with everything so far.....just need to turn it into a camper now!

RNP - just looked on your link to the van, that's something I was thinking of getting but did I read right that's £2.5k to insure?! If so how come?

Edit, just read it again and saw the first bit, blimey! What was insurance on something like this before that happened?

I bought the van as my wife had a clothing shop/business so was handy for the occasional events she sometimes did, for the both of us including business use it was £650. Both of us are early 40's, 2years (IIRC) no claims bonus as it was a 2nd policy (10 years on NCB on 1st policy).

I had a collision with an uninsured motocross bike being ragged on a main road, he is claiming £25k personal injury that my insurer isnt contesting. This happened in end of November last year, insurance renewal was January.
And was ~£2.5k due to the claim and loosing my NCB.

Pissed off with the whole experience hence sale of van.

A Solidwork rendering I did for a day van unit for my LWB Transit that fitted in place of the factory bulkhead.
The top items are a SMEV sink and tap on the left and a Dometic Origo 4100 spirit burner stove on the right.
Microwave in the right hand side of the mid section with a space for a small removable Waeco fridge in the middle (cant remember model at the moment).
2 leisure batteries, inverter and water pump in the lower section.
Drawers are steel with ply fronts on push to open substantial runners.
Construction was cnc cut 15mm laminate with minifix cam fastenings.
Cut out to the left hand side was for a switch panel for the water pump, inverter, interior lights etc.

Floor was Wisa Hexa cnc cut.

I also designed a removable laser cut aluminium raised bed that gave bike room underneath but I cant find the file at the moment - not that it matters due to bikelife ****er!
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Thanks for that spooky. Not sure about the Daily, it's got a massive overhang which make me very nervous in a confined space.
Had another drive in a Movano today, very nice to drive but cheap build quality, door shut lines are going to bug me and drivers seat worn through:-\ Sprinter tomorrow, a bit long but a solid quality feel plus rear end chevrons for max stealth (they're definitely staying!) Vans are ace! 😀

Rusty I think Ian should be in touch now

Rusty I think Ian should be in touch now

Thanks - we've had a chat via email

😀

If it makes any odds he loves a transit. Even has a model transit on his mantlepiece 🙂

Tell him to get his money out and he can have a real one parked outside!

🙂

With the width-ways bed thing. How many partners/wives/SOs are over 5ft 10? How many peoples' feet need as much room in a bed as their shoulders? Simple solution is to make a bed width ways but trapezoidal in shape. So the shorter one sleeps at 90 degrees and the taller one sleeps on a slight diagonal. I bet you wouldn't need to put in much of an angle to get a 6 ft + sleeping place. Would also save space at the foot end of the bed which could be usefully incorporated into a shower cubicle for example. Means getting custom mattresses made, but most campers end up with them to be honest anyway.

Unless your partner is very short that tends not to work. This is because the angle you end up at means you end up needing either a very wide bed (such that you would largely negate the space saving) or you end up kicking each other while sleeping as you actually "cross" quite a long way up the bed.

Same here, I considered a diagonal bed, but I had already planned for a narrow 'small double' which is 6" narrower than standard. Once you allow a bit more width you suddenly realise your bog has become a narrow cupboard, or your kitchen has run out of space for a sink!

I considered a fixed longways bed, with the bottom third on a flap that folds down over the kitchen units place across the van. Downsides - without some clever design, the bottom third would have to hinge up vertically, blocking off the bed area and making the van feel small, kitchen is blocked until both of you are up, bed is excessively high. Still uses a lot of space as when the bed is 'up' you still have a kitchen across the van which reduces flexibility to plan the layout.

Right, pick us a winner STW...

[img][url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2950/33401134815_73a92ace59_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2950/33401134815_73a92ace59_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/STxxGK ]IMG_20170311_103415477-01[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/36115930@N02/ ]pat5barnes[/url], on Flickr[/img]
2013
64K £600 cheaper than..

[img][url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2937/32558547424_c457a7791a_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2937/32558547424_c457a7791a_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/RB64PW ]567-01-01[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/36115930@N02/ ]pat5barnes[/url], on Flickr[/img]

late 2014 45k

Driven both and i like both but are very different beasts. It'll be my only vehicle and a long term keeper so which would you go for?

Sprinter without a shadow of doubt. Keep on top of the paint though or plasticoat it.

Glad you said that rusty, a clear winner then 🙂
Would a vinyl wrap help with the paintwork? An obvious pipedream but CAMO WRAP!! Oh yeah 8)

No, galvanised metal would help the long term paint on a Sprinter, but other than them going back in time, nothing is going to stop the tinworm eventually.

The Movano has a hideous turning circle, and you'll notice the cupholders are useless. That, and if you get the version with remote stereo controls on the steering wheel, you'll definitely not stick your fingers through the spokes of the wheel as you twirl the wheel doing a five-point turn trying to get the thing into your drive 🙂 Well, not after the first time you nearly break them, anyway.

Sprinter...higher floor, heavier, better turning circle. Expensive though. A regular wash and wax, and perhaps waxoil underneath if it doesn't look well sealed, should stave off rust. A wrap would help protect the paint from stonechips.

Search on ADVrider for a guy called Geeks with a 4x4 sprinter - he plasticoated/dipped or whatever it's called (peelable plastic coating) better and far cheaper than wrapping and can be repaired/touched up.

Another thing I was going to do to my van......

Edited to add
http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/building-an-adventure-van.715683/

Yeah I did notice the turning circle on the Movano but I had a Vivaro before so used to the supertanker 5 point turns. The poorly fitting body panels and flimsy steel was the thing putting me off it the most as it drives lovely. So Sprinter it is then. Cheers all for your input. New van day, YAY! 😀

Plasticote isn't all that.

Looks good when first done but looks really tatty really quickly.

My mate did his McCoy kit car. Was a mess after 6months of daily driving.

Congrats on the new van - please post some updates on how you get on with the conversion. I'm fantasising about that option at the mo. That's the 144" high top sprinter innit?

Thanks Grum! Yes I'll be boring everyone with dull pics and incoherent sentences very soon.. 😀

One week in, dull pics as promised..

Stealth, obviously.

[img][url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2929/33592918875_b3abc5ec06_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2929/33592918875_b3abc5ec06_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/Tbuuqt ]IMG_20170322_120629696-02[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/36115930@N02/ ]pat5barnes[/url], on Flickr[/img]

Ply ripped out and floor lifted.
A couple of suprises, good and bad..

Clean and tidy AND previously waxoiled

[img][url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3722/33456314982_29a38a50c3_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3722/33456314982_29a38a50c3_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/SYqmQW ]IMG_20170323_151937970[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/36115930@N02/ ]pat5barnes[/url], on Flickr[/img]

However..

[img][url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2883/33572125826_d7d588f343_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2883/33572125826_d7d588f343_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/T9DVnC ]IMG_20170323_121244189[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/36115930@N02/ ]pat5barnes[/url], on Flickr[/img]
Water getting in through the side bumper fixings - a bit pants 😕

..and theres a hole in my bottom!

[img][url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2895/32799022033_73603246f1_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2895/32799022033_73603246f1_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/RYkyxT ]IMG_20170323_094153284[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/36115930@N02/ ]pat5barnes[/url], on Flickr[/img]

A tidy work space is a happy..oh 😳

[img][url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2829/33612873685_3f8392e312_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2829/33612873685_3f8392e312_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/TdfLhV ]IMG_20170323_102005555[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/36115930@N02/ ]pat5barnes[/url], on Flickr[/img]

Insulation next so standby for more enthralling pics 😀

Looking forward to the updates!
Those bumper clips always look like a poor solution. Is there somewhere for the water to go?

Fortunately yes, there's drain holes in the bottom of the sill. Makes you wonder how corroded the sill innards are though not being galvanised.

Yup keep it coming please!

So this is MWB Sprinter/Crafter?
I'm intrigued, this is what mrs_oab and I should get in a couple of years..

Yes Matt MWB Sprinter. Feels solid compared to other vans I've driven but not particularly refined, more truck like than car like. Bloody fast though!

MAN TOOLS!!!

[img][url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2871/33243180390_d98d3c2c65_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2871/33243180390_d98d3c2c65_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/SDzZmA ]IMG_20170324_132648233[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/36115930@N02/ ]pat5barnes[/url], on Flickr[/img]

Floor insulation - straight forward..
[img][url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2864/32783952694_dd06839855_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2864/32783952694_dd06839855_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/RX1jXG ]IMG_20170324_152530517_HDR[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/36115930@N02/ ]pat5barnes[/url], on Flickr[/img]

The walls however..
[img][url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3836/33535896321_4e89ed2fd1_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3836/33535896321_4e89ed2fd1_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/T6seAZ ]2017-03-26_07-40-56[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/36115930@N02/ ]pat5barnes[/url], on Flickr[/img]

What a ball ache this is turning out, every orifice differs in depth, height and width plus lots of awkward bits behind the struts. A spray foam kit is beginning to make a lot of sense...or a straight sided van.

Looks good though! - the fun bits are just around the corner 🙂

I spent ages fiddling bits of celotex into crevices on mine, cursing it as I cut and all that horrible dust comes off it. BUT it is really valuable in the long run, stick at it. Warmth and sound deadening, I've spent many happy moments lying in the van and being glad I bothered being so thorough.

I braced the floor with more battens than you have to prevent the floor sagging and crushing of insulation, might be worth thinking about now rather than later.

Glued to this thread!

Still debating a sprinter vs a relay/ducato as I'd like to be able to put the bed sideways. I'm 5'8 and that seems to be borderline with a sprinter.

Moral support much appreciated! Had a bad start to today's proceedings as I'd not cleaned my spray nozzle properly from yesterday so foam was coming out in a pathetic, worm like widdle.

spacey - floor is down temp as I've got more timber to go in around shower base, just not sure where yet so left it out.
Grum I'm 5'8" also, would be very tight with a transverse but doable, you can squeeze 6ft in there if you use the widest part where the panels are, only 800mm max height underneath though.
No pics today, it's not pretty in there, like the aftermath of a custard pie fight 🙂

Ugly pics, ugly pics, ugly pics!

So you're planning the bed lengthways? Just seems like that won't leave that much room for living space.

I'd need the bed higher than 800mm for bikes underneath. I take it yours is a post 2006 Sprinter, I think they're slightly wider (unless that's just in the US)?

Do you have a sketchup plan or anything?

Ta!

Sorry only fag packet plans and no film in me camera 🙂

Going for a lengthways pull out bed opposite the side door as it doubles up as a seat. I won't be having swivel front seats so this is the only seating, makes sense to use the space as a bed. It's how my Vivaro was set up and it works for me. Shower will be behind this (over wheel arch) leaving a full height and width garage area approx 500mm deep, plenty for bikes with front wheel off.

No worries. Sounds cool will be interested to see how it works out. Don't think I'll bother with a shower. My layout would be something like the one on a site I saw called sprinter van diaries.

Been geeking out over eBay purchases - maybe ridiculous but I don't want a white one ideally.

This looks cool! Ex DHL I'm assuming. Anyone got any thoughts on whether a DHL van would have been looked after?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222450560324

That's a high roof which in Sprinter isn't that high (L2). I think you probably want an extra high roof (L3).

Cheers. Trying to find the measurements but I think that one would be high enough to stand up in. Hardly any extra high roof ones about.

Liking the yellow Grum, saw one or two of those with the expensive racking in the back but they were a bit battered, have you had a look at it in the flesh?

A little more progress has been made - insulation is done!..
[img][url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2900/33319401180_3e13097513_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2900/33319401180_3e13097513_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/SLjD99 ]2017-03-28_05-58-22[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/36115930@N02/ ]pat5barnes[/url], on Flickr[/img]

Ok here goes, this may cause nausea..
.
.
.
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Gold, GOLD!!..

[img][url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3713/33547392182_5b17cdf0bd_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3713/33547392182_5b17cdf0bd_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/T7t9Vu ]2017-03-28_05-59-32[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/36115930@N02/ ]pat5barnes[/url], on Flickr[/img]
Oh yeah 8)

[img][url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2916/33681657726_7edc6a7bd2_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2916/33681657726_7edc6a7bd2_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/TjkioE ]2017-03-29_05-53-40[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/36115930@N02/ ]pat5barnes[/url], on Flickr[/img]

I dont want to cover it up - look at it! 😀

twang earlier: [img] [/img] 🙂

No not seen it in the flesh, it's not a million miles from me so will try and see it if it's still around when I'm back in the country. Looks in good nick in the photos.

Yours is just the high roof not extra high roof innit? And you can stand up in it?

😆
High roof, didn't know they did a higher roof tbh. Yep plenty of head room, over 1900mm and thats after insulating floor.

I'd opt for a few more battens on the floor, kingsman will compress over time slightly and even over boarded may sag.

L1, L2, L3 refers to the length of the van and H1, H2, H3 etc. the height, as I understand it.

Van looking good!

Floors battened out every 400mm apart from the bit between wheel arches as thats where the showers going, dont want to batten it out in case it interferes with the drain holes. Struggling to find one off the shelf to fit though...

Ah, ok I stand corrected. Spaces looked bad get than that in your photo's. As you were.

No you were right Blazin saddles, the bit of exposed insulation you can see is about a metre wide! My work in progress (do things twice) pic caused the confusion.

Electrickery tomorrow, any split charge experts know if a 2013 Sprinter will be happy with a volt sensing relay? Not sure if it has a smart alternator or not?

Progress is slow and steady, I spend so much time trying to get my head around what goes where and if any decision I make affects anything else, which it always does!..makes ya brain urt 😕

Anyway, walls done (..more GOLD!)..
[img][url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2830/33736504036_47af878214_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2830/33736504036_47af878214_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/TpbphG ]2017-04-01_07-06-52[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/36115930@N02/ ]pat5barnes[/url], on Flickr[/img]

Roof (ceiling?) insulated..
[img][url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2853/33718213726_feee0a32ee_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2853/33718213726_feee0a32ee_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/TnyEdw ]2017-03-31_06-55-19[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/36115930@N02/ ]pat5barnes[/url], on Flickr[/img]

Conduits for cables in place(?)..
[img][url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3684/32950189684_a23ae17b83_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3684/32950189684_a23ae17b83_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/ScGkqG ]2017-04-02_02-52-29[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/36115930@N02/ ]pat5barnes[/url], on Flickr[/img]

Floors been up and down more times than a whoahh's drooahhs. 25mm ain't enough to accommodate the sink waste which has to run under floor so now I have 50mm insulation!..It's handy I'm a shorty, the ceilings getting a tad close..

Why can't the sink waste run under the van ?

Too many obstacles in the way. The shower waste also, which is only 18" from where the tank will be but no chance of routing that outside as there's suspension and alsorts of important stuff in the way.

Good to see you're making progress - keep it going!

Check out this conversion:

I'm leaning towards a Ducato/Relay at the moment just because of the extra usable space for the vehicle size. Think a Promaster (as used in that conversion) is basically the same thing.

Looks brilliant 🙂

I might well do the same/similar thing in the future. I've got an SWB Trafic camper with a pop-top roof, but something like this would be amazing for bigger trips away.

One thing- would there not be some advantage in having access to the front seats etc? Looking at that bulkhead- cut out a door-shaped section in the middle, put it on some sliding rails?

Too much hassle for too little value?

I was going to live with the bulkhead for a bit to see if it would be better removed but as the builds progressed a decision needed to be made so yes is stopping! Access to front means changing the passenger seats to a single, then no doubt I'll want it swivelling so saved a few quid there. I like the cave feeling you get in the back and it all helps with the stealth! I will be cutting a window in it, need ideas how to make it look a bit prettier though..hmm
Grum, I can understand why the Ducato is a popular van to convert, with the extra width and straight sides. This sprinter is a bit awkward tbh

When putting in the walls, how did you attach the vertical battens? Did you screw through the gold stuff and onto the existing ribs?

I guess you have to take care not to screw into the outer metal skin?

and then just screw the ply wood used for the walls to the vertical battens?