More Tory nonsense. Imperial measurements consultation

Just having a look at the survey. It's been designed to be as confusing as possible.
I'm 40 years old and have spent my life using metric calcs, I wasn't taught imperial in school. I even convert miles into KM in my head
Imperial is f***ing backward

Give it another 5 years and we'll be bartering with chickens and shiny beads and the official units of measurements will be tabloid endorsed.... football pitches, double decker buses and how many of something you need to put on top of one another to reach the moon

Have written an appropriately distainful response to that load of shite

Can only assume there must be some (more) actual (bad) news on the way.

What a load of... do my best to answer honestly...

What would be the consequences of your business having the freedom to sell products in imperial measures, if you wished?
Please respond here:

Can confuse customers
Can sneak price rises in
Can make mistakes and have to reprint labels prices
Can make a few old fogeys happy while reminiscing about the war

what a load of shit!

Of all the things for our government to be expending time and energy on.

Have written an appropriately distainful response to that load of shite

The trouble is it's a consultation, not a referendum.

In a referendum if 52 people say it's a good idea and 48 think it's bad then it goes ahead.

A consultation on the other hand is just to be sure you've considered all the facts. If 99 people say it's a bad idea, and 1 thinks it's good. Then as long as the proposer is already well aware it's a bad idea then it goes ahead.

It is such a loaded and poorly put together survey. It makes it very difficult to actually say you hate the idea.
Q3a asks: If you had a choice, would you want to purchase items i) in imperial units: ii) in imperial units alongside a metric equivalent?

Where is the third option? iii) Metric only.

I'm 44 and I wouldn't have the first clue what imperial measurements are. It frustrates me that we even use miles on the road.

It would be an easy way for shops to charge more for less. I bet 2 shillings and sixpence that a 2lb bag of sugar would cost the same as a 1kg bag of sugar currently does.

Responded. I did get a bit sweary there.

I quite enjoyed venting my spleen in the haunted pencil's direction. What an awfully constructed survey, I enjoyed pointing that out too.

Lunch over, back to doing something useful.

Edit; Me too kayla1!

NOTE FOR YOUNG PEOPLE AND AMERICANS: One shilling = Five Pee. It helps to understand the antique finances of the Witchfinder Army if you know the original British monetary system:

Two farthings = One Ha'penny. Two ha'pennies = One Penny. Three pennies = A Thrupenny Bit. Two Thrupences = A Sixpence. Two Sixpences = One Shilling, or Bob. Two Bob = A Florin. One Florin and One Sixpence = Half a Crown. Four Half Crowns = Ten Bob Note. Two Ten Bob Notes = One Pound (or 240 pennies). Once Pound and One Shilling = One Guinea.

The British resisted decimalized currency for a long time because they thought it was too complicated.
Neil Gaiman & Terry Pratchett

I mean, jebus ****ing wept, the only people who will actively want this would be dead by the time it passed into law. Actually, thinking about it, the lords'd probably boot it out, wouldn't they?

It's just Rees Mogg playing up to his dickhead crowd. Either ignore or purposefully **** it up, but it won't have any practical effect.

Where is the third option? iii) Metric only.

It is pretty much a textbook example of a biased questionnaire isnt it?
How to guarantee everyone wants at least some imperial rubbish.
Still I guess it will be good to get a brexit benefit at last. How pleasing it will be to drink a pint looking at the crown engraved on the glass next to 1 PINT and none of that funny metric stuff.

Filled it in. The words, "moron", "moronic", "confusing", "idiotic", and "colonial ****erism" may have made a few appearances.

It would be an easy way for shops to charge more for less. I bet 2 shillings and sixpence that a 2lb bag of sugar would cost the same as a 1kg bag of sugar currently does.

Dint this already happened when bottles of beer went to 500ml from a pint?

Filled in, in a similar vein to @reluctantjumper I suspect.

I spent a few minutes trying to explain to a visiting colleague and his wife earlier the BREXIT reasons, process, outcome, and -er- “benefits”. I gave up due to the bewilderment it seemed to induce.

Surely despite his faux-Victorian leanings JRM is too young to have been taught or reasonably used these hilarious ‘imperial’ measures? He’s younger than me (says Wikipedia)! Though I assume he’s never had to read American publications and had to figure out wtf that means in regular units. This is more distraction BS

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_Kingdom Was fascinating.

Anyone have an idea how much this absolutely ludicrous "consultation" process will cost?

I did like the question about regulatory cost/benefits. I might be being picky here but isnt that their job to provide that information to us?

Anyone have an idea how much this absolutely ludicrous “consultation” process will cost?

I suspect more to the point it’s be interesting to know which Tory doner/friend is being paid….

Apparently that consultation's been running since 3rd June and closes on 26th August. Didn't know anything about it. FFS, give them an inch and they'll take a mile.

I'll do a response but likely to be very ranty and sweary too. And that's just thinking about the metric/imperial ****ery in cycling let alone general society.

I did like the question about regulatory cost/benefits.

I filled it out for a laugh but tried to keep it sensible.
My point of view is that being forced to use imperial actually increaces costs as a conversion process has to take place.

I'm all for letting the market decide (in this instance), so if you want to sell your speaker cable in furlongs, or quote the depth of your hot tub in fathoms, crack on, but you should have to quote metric as a mandatory requirement.

is that actually a real survey.  how shit is the world right now.  no wonder almost every young person I know is on antidepressants*

*slight exaggeration but not as slight as I would like it to be

I filled it in, obviously totally pro-metric. I worry that, from @euain's post, the key purpose of the re-introduction of Imperial is the following:

Can confuse customers
Can sneak price rises in

Pretty sure that both of these would be seen as a benefit by many businesses.

Have written an appropriately distainful response to that load of shite

^ that

My point of view is that being forced to use imperial actually increaces costs as a conversion process has to take place.

Yes at best it would be cost neutral and even that is unlikely. If you allow people to weigh in imperial then trading standards and co would need to have calibrated weights for imperial as well.
Just think of the fun of trying to compare prices as well when shop is in imperial and the other in metric.
I did say I didnt like this new fangled rubbish and asked why we couldnt go for the Winchester standard instead.

Junior in Berlin has been waiting for his Brompton to be fixed for weeks because some bolts are on order from Brompton who for some reason don't use normal metric bolts in their hinges.

You can add that to the advantages, having exclusive UK specific parts you can charge foreigners a fortune for.

This will probably go away once we have a new PM as frankly it’s bloody stupid and there are other things they’ll want to spend the parliamentary time on.

If there is any God then JRM will be a long way away from a cabinet post…

Filled it in, they may be aware I'm not a fan of returning to the dark ages. I loved all the questions about the benefits of going imperial, I just replied there were no benefits, just costs. I may have included the words nuts, tosh, nationalistic populism and a few other choice non-sweary words in there. I did say I was happy for my responses to be published, I'm not holding my breath.

once we have a new PM as frankly it’s bloody stupid and there are other things they’ll want to spend the parliamentary time on.

Are you sure about that? the conservatives seem to like making a lot of noise about non-issues whilst they push through the nasty stuff in the background, it's thier M.O. They have form.

You can add that to the advantages, having exclusive UK specific parts you can charge foreigners a fortune for.

Or they will just buy conor city bikes...totally bog standard, everyone has parts for them.

The only special thing about Bromptons is the astronomical cost, hahah!

Filled in the survey. Whoever compiled that should be ashamed of themselves.

I don't see the point of being all sweary and ranty when you fill it in, your responses will be treated much like we treat comments from swivel-eyed loons here, but I did make my points very clear and direct, not that it'll make any difference.

Reminds me of those questionnaires from the likes of the UK Fuel Alliance or whatever they're called.

FFS, give them an inch and they’ll take a mile.

Deserves credit

tobago - sorry to disappoint; there clearly isn't a God as ree-smug is, apparently, being touted as housing minister.

FFS, give them an inch and they’ll take a mile.

There are apparently 63,360 inches in a mile, a nice round number.

I'm not sure it that's been rounded up or down though.

Crikey, Imagine trying to evaluate a bank loan,a mortgage interest rate projection, ar an energy bill price fix in farthings and thrupences, hahaha.

There are apparently 63,360 inches in a mile, a nice round number.

Which is precisely why the old OS "1 inch to the mile" maps were scaled at 1:63360. And therefore often too small to be much actual use on the ground 😄

It really does make me sad that some supposedly learned people want to reject one of the finest accomplishments of human culture. Everyone in the world* has agreed on some measurements to make things fairer and easier for everyone. It's such a beautiful idea.

*even the 'exceptions' use metric as the base for their metrology

We want to hear from a broad range of stakeholders

if I was holding a stake anywhere near JRM I’d stick it right up his ****ing arse the moronic shithouse.

There are apparently 63,360 inches in a mile, a nice round number.

There are 100 000 cm in a Km. Out of interest, how is this a better number?

The metric system has definite advantages over the imperial system and I am in no way in favour of any increase in use of imperial measures. However, it is not really a difficult system to use in practice. I am amazed that someone could get into their 40’s and struggle with miles!

Huh? Let me get this right, the common numerical relationship between inches / feet / miles, oz / pound / stones and quart / gallon / **** knows what is…

Now do the same with the metric equivalents and for extra help you can use your fingers.

Yeah we use miles cos it’s written on road signs but ask people in Australia how far somewhere is and you’ll often get an answer in hours. Familiarity and commonality are very prevalent but try converting and you’ll be glad for an easy to manage system.

edit. Soz there was an edit in there.

@scuttler Using just thumbs is such a binary 'solution'.

Huh? Let me get this right, the common numerical relationship between inches / feet / miles, oz / pound / stones and quart / gallon / **** knows what is…

Now do the same with the metric equivalents and for extra help you can’t use your fingers.

Sorry, what is the question?

It really does make me sad that some supposedly learned people want to reject one of the finest accomplishments of human culture.

I couldn't agree more. There is a reason why it is called Imperial Measurements - it was given to the world by the British Empire.

Which is why its full name is "British Imperial Measurements" and also why it is something to be truly proud of.

Mind you inches, feet, and miles, were all given to us by the Romans.

As were the words British and Empire.

Thames Tv's take on the introduction with interviews bitd.😁

ask people in Australia how far somewhere is and you’ll often get an answer in hours.

And let's not forget that International Time/Zulu Time is BRITISH i.e. Greenwich Mean Time.

Which is definitely not metric.

Time may not be metric but it is universal. Unlike gallons.

4.54609.

I am amazed that someone could get into their 40’s and struggle with miles!

What type of miles are you referring to?
Roman, nautical, U.S survey mile, Imperial/international/statue mile?
Assuming the latter its fine on its own but its when you get more precise it starts becoming a pain in the neck.
Like most distance measurements prior to metric they have the problem of using the human body to try and determine things. Which given the variability of the body is bound to end in tears and some odd values. I mean why on earth is the imperial foot a size 13 shoe? Did they go looking for the giants in each settlement and hope?
The most depressing thing is the definition of yard/feet have been redefined several times over the last hundred years using the metre as the benchmark. So either we do the job properly and go back to the 1800s or just use a sensible metric measurement.

4.54609

Or 3.78541 if you're in the US...

Why do we need to change to a system I have never been taught, rely upon or used professionally? Oh yeah, because old people are nostalgic for thier youth.

statue mile?

That’s a mighty tall statue 😉

I agree with what you say. Metric is, on the whole, better - I just don’t see the need to make out that the imperial system is overly difficult.

I mean why on earth is the imperial foot a size 13 shoe?

Because it was given to us by the Romans and Italians are prone to exaggerate about the size of their body parts - it's the sort of thing which I would expect Silvio Berlusconi to claim.

Seriously, can you imagine an Italian with size 13 feet? And presumably the Romans claimed that was an average size!!

On the good old railway we still measure in feet yards chains and miles, still talk about the 4foot, 6 foot and 10foot, but our possession of safety is 1.25m or 2m (depending on speed).

I'm happy sticking with metric, I puzzled my parents when I told them their grandchildren's weight in kilos.

Filled it in. The words chaos, confusion and expense featured.

This rancid dross is old news and will surely die a death with Johnson's resignation and the coming winter of chaos and devastation.

I really don't understand why the government, or parts of it, are so determined to make the UK poorer and less competitive for reasons of nostalgia, bit of red meat for the few ?

The problem with Imperial, is not that I don't knowwhat inches, yards, feet are , and I can explain them to my kids. It's when you start doing practical calculations tho'. The weights stuff is more abstract tho', and harder to understand what that means in the real world if you haven't used it a lot.
Real world implications - makes trading with British companies even harder

Real world implications – makes trading with British companies even harder

It won't, as the British companies will maintain metric measurements. It'll make it a lot more expensive for the companies, though, if they're also legally obliged to provide measurements in imperial units.

I just don’t see the need to make out that the imperial system is overly difficult.

It is not overly difficult to people who are numerically minded but if you were coming up with a system from scratch would you use one that uses 3, 12, 16, 20 and so on or one that uses 10, 100, 1000?

As we already have the more consistent approach in place and most people under 50 only really know that system then bringing in an alternative old and less consistent method seems ****ing stupid at best doesn't it.

would you use one that uses 3, 12, 16, 20 and so on

Length goes from 333 1/3, 3, 4 ,12, 3, 22,10,8,3, relative to their previous measure

weight goes 1/700, 1/256, 1/16, 1, 14, 28, 112, 2240.

What could be simpler?

Filled in - thanks for heads up!

I work with US companies working in inches/PSI/fahrenheit so actually have a lot of experience of working with the two systems - it is a massive pain in the arse and confuses the hell out of apprentices.

I'd love to test the haunted pencil with some Oil and Gas specifications just to see how well he coped...

I'd be completely buggered if we went back to pounds, shillings and pence though 🤣

Did the survey and slated every aspect of it. There was no "don't be daft, lets stick with metric" option because our tory overlords want to skew the result and introduce something their coffin dodging party members can embrace. The rest of us don't matter.

Far better to formally adopt well established and commonly used Scottish measurements;

Distance; Bawhair, Gnat's Chuff, Pure Miles.
Temperature; Pure freezin' / roastin', Scorchio, Taps Aff, Baltic, Meltin'.
Time; Yonks, Ages
Currency; Bawbees, Score, Wad.

Others are available.

It really does make me sad that some supposedly learned people want to reject one of the finest accomplishments of human culture. Everyone in the world* has agreed on some measurements to make things fairer and easier for everyone. It’s such a beautiful idea.

A bit like having free movement and custom free areas to do business in.... Let's take that away and make it harder.

The UK really is on a strange path.

tobago – sorry to disappoint; there clearly isn’t a God as ree-smug is, apparently, being touted as housing minister.

Workhousing Minister, surely?

That survey is so hilariously obviously biased, it's quite incredible. If a GCSE student had written that, they'd catch a bollocking for writing leading questions.

I really don’t understand why the government, or parts of it, are so determined to make the UK poorer and less competitive for reasons of nostalgia, bit of red meat for the few ?

It's because they really don't care about anyone who has to actually work for a living and earn every penny they need for food & to keep themselves warm. They have absolutely no concept of the real world and are quite safe and cozy in their mink lined bubbles, laughing at the rest of us.

Well I for one, look forward to them getting rid the the 4.2% on my bottle of beer and it being replaced with a fraction instead: 21/500 😉

Filled in, emphasised the pointlessness of imperial units, the costs that would be involved, and the bias of the questions, but avoided a rant at them as that's just likely to get my response rejected - and I want the conclusion from the consultation to say that there are really good reason to bin the idea.

It's just bonkers.

I asked a colleague a while back to measure the space for a shelf she wanted at one of our locations. I wanted it fairly precise so I could cut the wood at base and take it to site and slot it it. She came back with 22.2 inches. So what is that? Is it 22 and 2 tenths? 22 and 2 eights? 22 and 2 twelfths? I asked if she could measure in mm but she said it mm were too complicated. In the end I just took a 1m long board and a saw/tape etc Turned out it was 22 and 2 thirds! She is at least 70...

Everywhere I could in that 'survey' I included the statement that:

"Metric units are the international standard method of measurement for science and trade. If the UK stops using the metric system it will be left behind."

just use a sensible metric measurement

Sorry, "sensible" no longer applies to the UK post 2017.

I think most folks are missing the point of the survey ( I may be wrong )

Surely its really just another " Oh Look a Squirrel " type thing , much along the lines of " Lets make Cyclists have number plates "

Its sole purpose is to distract from the real issues in the world today, which the government should be concentrating on

( imho)

They have absolutely no concept of the real world

Some of them might, but the point is that even if they do they simply don't care. That's the fundamental mistake you're making. It matters not if they know about the real world or not, they don't care about it.

THat has to be one of the worst surveys I have ever completed. It is so clearly designed to give a predetermined answer as to be laughable.

I think most folks are missing the point of the survey ( I may be wrong )

I have a horrible suspicion that it's point is that they can then announce that the response was overwhelmingly in favour of Imperial units.

Not read the survey but wanted to say that I tend to use imperial measurements when considering height and weight. The just seem more understandable (to me). If someone says I am six feet tall and thirteen stone it is a lot easier to envisage than the equivalent metric measures of approxiamtely 183cm and 82kg.

It does seem to be distraction nonsense for this to be a thing at the moment though.

I think what's quite interesting looking at that Thames TV bit above is what we didn't adopt. They seemed to imply Km would be used but we still use miles on the roads.

As a bit of an experiment I was trying to explain some simple conversions to my girls the other day, fluid Oz in round numbers that it's basically 28ml and 20 of those make a pint and 1.75 pints make a liter... They just looked incredulously at me my eldest asked what the point of it was when we already had ml and liters as a perfectly workable system.

And from their perspective it is utterly bonkers they've been taught (and their parents) a logical, understandable metric system and now some duffers from their grandparents generation want to force them to translate everything into ancient gibberish for the sake of nostalgia...

Pretty much everyone of working age and below is calibrated to the metric system, the ensuing ****-ups will ultimately just end up costing Their pension funds. Why can't the boomers just stop pissing about with a perfectly functional country that wasn't doing them any harm?

They'll be outlawing calculators next in favour of slide rules just because...

We really need to dislodge the bastardsnfrom power before this goes too far.