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Ashcroft who bankrolls the tory party was supposed to be a UK resident in 2000 following his peerage. Since then the tory party has refused to say if he has or not. Now the information Commissioner has said they have to confirm his tax status.
Clearly there is something to hide or Callmedave would have released this information - after all its fairly straightforward.
So - did Ashcroft lie about his tax status? Has his millions that has kept the party afloat been illegally donated?
Is Hague in his back pocket?
Is this Tory corruption again?
Just the same as Labour lies then........allegedly
I thought I would quote a Tory paper so as not to be accused of bias sources. Guardian reader here.
Toilet Paper reader here.....
Guardian reader here.
Leather elbow pads on your tweed suit?
The problem with this article is that it flings around the terms resident and domicile as if they mean the same thing. They don't, they are two completely different things. I don't know whether he has broken any rules but I would be surprised.
If he has broken no rules then why they lack of clarity from The tories? People have been trying to get this info for 3 years.
If he is clean then come clean. Myself I am certain he is completely corrupt and will have been avoiding taxes.
ashcrofts donations would not have been illegal under current legislation regardless of his tax status as they are donated from UK registered corporate entities. The noises from the Labour government on changing the rules to out him haven't been followed through as it would severely disrupt their own income stream. The Tories have pegged their cooperation on any new law to a legal cap on Union donations.
The offer of transparency on his status was merely to show some willing. The fact he has reneged on them is a moral matter not a legal one.
Now, about Gordon's private £50k polling slush fund that has gone un-registered in the members interests register...?? (and that is illegal).
FWIW a Guardian, Prospect, Private Eye and Spectator reader.
And is [url=
David Cameron, at some old rave (about 15 seconds in)? 😀
Pretty sure it ain't, but quite funny, all the same. Some of his circle involved in organising big parties in 88/89, iirc.
More seriously, Ashcroft is shady. Never [i]quite[/i] sure what to make of him buying up VCs, either...
comrade - giving the Imperial War Museum £5m to enable them to display his collection of VC's is so un-philanthopic, dont you think!? 😉
Stoner this thread is in reply to the thread about that. The truth will out over that as well. Nowt proven yet.
His donations may well be illegal. Under investigation at teh moment as the companies he donates thru appears to be a shell company created for that purpose and Ashcroft himself is not registered to vote in the UK so he cannot donate either.
If he is clean then why the lack of clarity?
If he is not UK domiciled then he and others have mislead parliament. Lots more to come on this story. Wait and see.
I've found the Tory u-turn on their deficit reduction plans very amusing this week.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/stephanieflanders/2010/02/camerons_nixon_moment.html
Its highly amusing that one capt. Shows how little clue they have. So many U turns that does anyone know which way they face now?
[i]giving the Imperial War Museum £5m to enable them to display his collection of VC's[/i]
I'm aware of the scale of his, er, generousity (thereby keeping them "in country"). There's just something about the [url= http://www.victoriacrossheroes.com/collection.html ]accompanying rhetoric[/url] that makes me rather uneasy.
[i]"Part of Lord Ashcroft's general interest in bravery...."[/i]
Spare me.
there's nothing "unclean" about not paying UK tax on overseas earnings, it's just not politically appealing to announce to the world that's what the party's main bankroller is doing. You're trying to contrive illegal activity where there is none. These guys dont get stinky rich and then drop the ball on something so straightforward. Any press coverage is more than likely opposition plant.
He certainly hasnt mislead parliament. He may well have mislead the honours committee though about his tax-domicile intentions, but that's not the same thing.
You can huff and puff all you like TH, but if Ashcroft is convicted in a court of law, I will eat SFB's shorts.
I shall go and find the Gordon thread - pity I missed it while working today...
These eight heroes are very different people, with very different strengths and frailties, but all share an inspirational courage that Gordon Brown celebrates in these fascinating and moving portraits.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Courage-Eight-Portraits-Gordon-Brown/dp/0747565325
spare me too 😉
And Labour on the other hand are soooo fabulous.....no U turn on Afghanistan, Iraq or giving the banks all our money then making US pay for it.........t'rific
I dinnae care much for Brown, comrade. Though I feel somewhat sorry for the great clunking fist - on account of him having wanted the job for [i]so[/i] long, and then...
I read the title as 'More Troy Lees'
it should have been
disappointing
10p income tax uturn anyone ?
"45 minutes to launch strike on UK" - the mother of all NuLab lies.
Stoner - I think you will be found to be wrong on Ashcroft. He has broken the law I am sure. If it is proven as I am sure it will be that the donations were channelled thru a shell company then the donations are illegal.
Stories opposition plants? In the mail and the telegraph?
you never heard of Will Lewis and Balls' being best chums?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/its-not-a-splash-its-balls-1686267.html
The Telegraph hasnt been the blue rinsed standard bearer for years TJ. Do keep up! 🙄
He has broken the law I am sure.
I knew we didnt need a justice system. All we need is TJ and his chippy politics to sort out matters. SO much more efficient...
Captain Flashheart to the forum please, Captain Flashheart. Thread waiting. Thank you.
😉
OFFICIAL NOTICE: As of 05-02-2010 things that appear in The Daily Mail are now to be considered true.
We've always been at war with Eastasia.
OFFICIAL NOTICE ENDS.
[i]All we need is TJ and his chippy politics[/i]
Disliking Ashcroft is not what I would regard as chippy.
Captain Flashheart to the forum please
Oh no, spare us from prolonging yet another of these STW "my party is marginally less venal than your party" wrangles, please.
Complete with the obligatory selective quotes and recollections, of course.
Why does pointing out Labour mistakes cancel out Tory mistakes? Or offer some kind of balance? Just because someone criticises one party doesn't automatically mean they are pro their opponents.
As I said earlier, there is a load of rubbish written on the subject of Ashcroft because the term resident and domiciled are used interchangeably. The Information Commssioner in his Press Release seems to suggest the undertaking about residence however as the undertaking was private it is pretty difficult to judge until it has been publicised which it now will be. Whether he has met the undertaking can then be judged.
My guess is that this will play out as follows. I am sure Ashcroft will have had a far better understanding of the meaning of the undertaking than whoever dealt with it from the other side and therefore will have complied with it. However, it is quite likely that the wording will not achieve what was hoped. In this case, whilst the government's fault through incompetence, some mud will stick because he will have complied with the letter rather than spirit of the undertaking.
I think this is why the Tories have been keen not to address it full on but it will be a pretty small victory for Labour.
"45 minutes to launch strike on UK" - the mother of all NuLab lies.
"45 minutes to launch strike on UK" ? ....... I've never heard that one 😕
There [i]was[/i] an attempt to exaggerate the perceived threat which Iraq allegedly posed.
But I think you have just exaggerated the exaggeration ..........well done ! 😀
More Tory lies :
Sir Michael Scholar head of the UK Statistics Authority, gave the Tory shadow Home Secretary Chris Grayling, a rare and extraordinary rebuke -
[i]Dear Mr Grayling
VIOLENT CRIME STATISTICS
I do not wish to become involved in political controversy, but I must take issue with what you said yesterday about violent crime statistics, which seems to me likely to damage public trust in official statistics.
The Statistics Authority's views on this matter are set out in the Note below.
I would be grateful if you would take account of our views in your future use of, or comments upon, these official statistics.
I am sending a copy of this letter to the Leader of the Opposition, Rt. Hon. David Cameron MP, to the Home Secretary, Rt. Hon Alan Johnson MP, and to Dr. Tony Wright MP, Chair of the Public Administration Select Committee.
Yours sincerely
Sir Michael Scholar KCB[/i]
[url= http://timesonline.typepad.com/crime/2010/02/stats-chief-gives-chris-grayling-a-clip-round-the-ear.html ]An extraordinary rebuke for the Shadow Home Secretary over his abuse of crime stats to claim the existence of 'broken Britain'[/url]
Johnners and Stoner (first post above) sum it up rather well.
As to the 45 minutes, I seem to remember that it was alleged that British troops etc in Cyprus were within range of those fabled WsMD.
Change the ****ing record TJ. its not as if labour are above reproach is it?
Yes Captain, Cyprus was mentioned, but not the UK. As I said.......an exaggeration of the exaggeration 😀
Change the **** record TJ. its not as if labour are above reproach is it?
I think that is [i]exactly[/i] what TJ has done.........."changed the record".
The Tories are not above reproach ........they are also a bunch of liars.
Not much difference between any party, they all have their, um, secrets.
We'll not be getting anything like democracy until all company donations are banned. Companies don't vote, therefore they should butt out of the electoral process.
Donations should be allowed only from registered voters in the electorate.
If this means the parties can't afford advertising etc, even better. They may actually have to come and speak to us.
GG - I was reading about their use of crime statistics this evening with disgust.
Mark Easton (The only man at the BBC who can add up) has covered it really well.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/02/conservative_estimates_on_viol_1.html
The only thing to get me more pissed off than tribal partisanship is the shoddy use of statistics 😉
epic - and the tories will agree to that, right about the same time the Labour movement agree to a cap on Union donations, since they dont vote either...
I notice that pissing on His Holiness the Tony has just dropped off the radar screens...
I know he wasn't, like, PROPER labour. Presumably all the other Labour pillocks we see parading themselves across the media these days aren't PROPER Labour either to the likes of ernie and TJ.
Never mind. CallMeDave and his chums will be in power soon so we can all forget about what a useless bunch of twonks the current lot have been and really get stuck into the Eton Rifles whilst old New Old Labour spend the next few years eating out their own innards in the wilderness...
A Plague On..., you know.
Presumably all the other Labour pillocks we see parading themselves across the media these days aren't PROPER Labour either to the likes of ernie and TJ.
They're not proper Labour to me, either.
Politicians in "massaging the data for their own means" shocker...
Change the **** record TJ. its not as if labour are above reproach is it?
It's a key advantage of being in opposition - it means that it's slightly easier win "king of the castle" when playing on the moral tor. Labour destroyed the tories (who were doing a damn good job at it themselves) in the mid nineties. I actually came on here to point out the shameful abuse of statistics by Grayling and his idiots in the shadow home secretary's team, but ernie beat me to it. CallMeDave and his team are not only failing to win that higher ground, but are dismal and clueless in their attempts to mount a decent challenge to take it - I wonder why...they've taken so many U-turns in the past few weeks they don't even know which direction they're facing anymore.
there's massaging and there's completely going against the guidance of the NSO (National Statistics Office)
We'll not be getting anything like democracy until all company donations are banned. Companies don't vote, therefore they should butt out of the electoral process......and the tories will agree to that, right about the same time the Labour movement agree to a cap on Union donations
Perhaps the common-sense approach would be to simply ban all political parties.
Or is that a tad too radical ?
ban all political parties.
Gus - as a "liberal"* Id whole-heartedly agree. But I dont quite see how the preclusion of an organised party structure would help your socialist ideal to power?
* I appreciate the paradox of a liberal applauding a banning, but it is for the greater diversification of democracy. Means to an end 😉
Stoner - Member
epic - and the tories will agree to that, right about the same time the Labour movement agree to a cap on Union donations, since they dont vote either...
I know 🙁
Ernie may have the best idea.
I dont quite see how the preclusion of an organised party structure would help your socialist ideal to power?
Yeah, I know what you mean............... 😐
But sod "socialism"............let's go straight to an autonomous communistic society ! 😀
.......after we've slaughtered all of the bourgeoisie - of course.
I am but a humble farmer comrade... 🙁
autonomous communistic society
Yeah. That'll work.
autonomous communistic society
It's a bit like Grange Hill, but without the heroin.
I am but a humble farmer comrade...
Are you ? A property owning class enemy ? ...........well I'll be ...... I never realised.
OK, I'll have a little think........I'll come back to you on that one, if I may.
Grayling = [GCSE maths] FAIL.
Ashcroft who bankrolls the tory party was supposed to be a UK resident in 2000 following his peerage. Since then the tory party has refused to say if he has or not. Now the information Commissioner has said they have to confirm his tax status.Clearly there is something to hide or Callmedave would have released this information - after all its fairly straightforward.
So - did Ashcroft lie about his tax status? Has his millions that has kept the party afloat been illegally donated?
Is Hague in his back pocket?
Is this Tory corruption again?
Who to believe?
The liers who get money this way?
Or the liers who tried to get Unions public funding (so the unions could then continue to bankroll Labour).
Or another way..
The liers
or the incompetent, murderers of almost 100,000 civilians and downright corrupt?
TJ- What are you going to chose?
Stoner - Memberepic - and the tories will agree to that, right about the same time the Labour movement agree to a cap on Union donations, since they dont vote either...
If you remember the Tories when last in power tried to stop union contributions by insisting on rather onerous continual votes for the political levy. More people now pay the political levy than before this mendacious piece of legislation.
The political levy does not all go to labour.
Hora - WTF are you on about?
Never heard this one before.Or the liers who tried to get Unions public funding (so the unions could then continue to bankroll Labour).
I hold no brief for Labour and do not attempt to defend where they are wrong. However the continual love in with the Tory party on here needs a bit of tempering with reality. It needs to be pointed out what an inept, mendacious and corrupt bunch they are.
Ashcroft is clearly one of the most corrupt politicians for a long time. He personally bankrolls the tory party with money he has made thru tax avoidance. He has corrupted the government of Belize. He has tainted the tory party. He is a liar and he should be removed from all political influence.
Can one of the toryboys on here defend Cameron / Osbournes economic policy? That is if you know what it is this week?
Once again the latest Davos summmit backed Browns economic policies has left Cameron floundering again - hence the latest U turn - the 4th ? Or is it the fifth since the economic crisis?
He is a liar and he should be removed from all political influence.
Mandelson. Blair. Brown. Vaz. Etc.
CaptainFlashheart - MemberPresumably all the other Labour pillocks we see parading themselves across the media these days aren't PROPER Labour either to the likes of ernie and TJ.
They're not proper Labour to me, either.
Most of my friends consider me rather a wishy washy liberal.
As I have said many times I am no labour supporter. My vote normally goes to other parties but not always.
CFH - I don't disagree completly. Brown is no liar and I think Blair is deluded but sincere( is that better or worse???). Mandelson is just foul, mendacious and a cancer on politics and Vaz thick and vengeful.
I do like the way the only defense of Ashcroft you and the other ttoryboys can make is to attack Labour. Can't defend the indefensible? 😀
I have no need to, TJ. Thus far, as Stoner put correctly on the first page, he has done nothing wrong. So, why do I have to defend anything?
Theres also the "Union modernisation fund"
It uses taxpayers' money to give to the Unions to "modernise" through the Union modernisation fund. And then the unions give it back to the Labour Party in the form of donations.
I do like the way the only defense of Ashcroft you and the other ttoryboys can make is to attack Labour. Can't defend the indefensible?
Well it looks like you can.
🙄Brown is no liar and I think Blair is deluded but sincere.....
Find an example of Brown lying. Not opinion where yo differ from him but fact.
Blair - no doubt he told untruths. My opinion is that he genuinely believes what he says - he is deluded rather than mendacious. That may actually be worse. I can't stand him.
Mandelson is a lying toad with the scruples of a ..a ..I can't think of anything low enough
CFH - you are an intelligent man. How can you believe that? We will see when the various investigations are complete but if he is clean why the refusal to give the information?
The public should be allowed to know whether a wealthy Conservative backer pays taxes in the UK, the Information Commissioner has ruled.
Does he pay tax in the UK as he said he would?
Is he registered to vote in the UK?
Two simple questions he needs to answer ( amongst other things)
Have you read what the prime minister of Belize has to say about him?
Come on - you can do better than that. I may have to bookmark this thread to see if you eat your words when his lying and corruption is exposed without any equivocation
Hora - the money that unions pay to various political bodies and lobbying groups (mainly but not exclusively labour party) comes from the political levy. As a union member you have to opt in to pay this small amount of money and it is ringfenced and kept separate from other funds. Most but not all union members pay it.
Find an example of Brown lying. Not opinion where yo differ from him but fact.
What like this kind of fact?
I think Blair is deluded but sincere
Can you not read roper.
I do not claim that to be a fact " I think" or "I believe" means its my opinion.
Now find a lie that Brown told.. Not where your opinion is different from his but where the [b]facts[/b] are different from what he said.
Easy to do for Blair Mandelson and Vaz. rather harder for Brown.
TJ - I have no idea what the answers to the questions that you raise, but they are irrelevant as what is relevant is whether he had complied with the undertaking that he gave confidentially to this government. The Press don't know what he undertook, neither do I and neither do you so it may be better to judge once the facts are in the open which they will be in the near future.
As far as the Tory economic policy is concerned I will leave it to Stephanie Flanders as linked on the previous page to summarise
Rightly or wrongly, both men [Cameron and Osborne] believe that cutting the deficit quicker and deeper than Labour plans - starting in 2010 - could actually help the recovery, by preventing a costly run on government debt, and sharply higher long-term interest rates as a result. By and large, they've struggled to get this highly respectable - but deeply counter-intuitive - idea across to the British people. But yesterday, Mr Cameron had a bloomin' good try.
They have a different view as to what is important, we will never know who is right and who is wrong, economists are still arguing about the 1981 Budget.
Can you not read roper.
I do not claim that to be a fact " I think" or "I believe" means its my opinion.
Now find a lie that Brown told.. Not where your opinion is different from his but where the facts are different from what he said.
Lay off the insults TJ. They do more harm to your display of intelligence than they do to me. Also you believe that Gordon brown has never lied, you do not know this as truth.
hora - MemberIt uses taxpayers' money to give to the Unions to "modernise" through the Union modernisation fund.
As far as I am aware, it was Thatcher who first came up with the idea of giving taxpayers' money to the unions to "modernise".
The Trade Union Act 1984, gave provision for state money to be given to trade unions for postal balloting - not a cheap operation by anyone's standards.
I don't think you can blame the 'New Labour liars' for that.
Daily Mail LOL im not a Sun reader
So *three* labour MP's and one tory peer get charged?
I am surprised, I hoped for more like 50 mps to be charged. were the tories just better at fiddling? My impression was the labour ones fiddled pennies for trivia but the tories got thousands for duck ponds. 4 being charged is pathetic. should be dozens of all colours.
No one comes out of this well apart from gorgeous George Galloway
So *three* labour MP's and one tory peer get charged?
And since the party in government is the Labour Party, I think we can safely say that we don't have a corrupt political system.
Unlike Italy for instance, where the first thing the Italian Prime Minister did on coming to power, was to a pass law making him immune from prosecution.
So we are indeed lucky.
What ... nobody has blamed Maggie yet !!
I blame Thatcher.
Here comes the new boss
Same as the old boss
and the row over Ashcrofts tax status continues.
Early this week Cameron said "For years all parties have taken the same view that someone's tax status is a matter between them and the Inland Revenue. That needs to change,"
Howver when questioned on Ashcroft a tory spokesman referred to What Cameron said in Decenmber "Lord Ashcroft's tax status is a matter between him and the Inland Revenue."
George Young said ""He is in the same position as a number of Labour peers who are non-domiciled and who fund the Labour party."
In 2000 ashcroft promised to give up his "non Dom" status and pay tax in Britain No one can find any record of him having done so.
The company he uses to bankroll the tory party Bearwood Corporate Services he has not declared on the register of interests.
So Callmedave - which of the statements represent tory policy?
So Torys - which is it to be? Why won't they come clean? Is this man corrupt or totally corrupt? Without him the tories would be bankrupt.
I'm dreading the Tories. They will lie, cheat, fiddle, make a mockery of justice and generally have an extended w### in the faces of the electorate.
Trouble is, the Labour party have been doing exactly that since 1997.
Where are you now Mr Fawkes?
surely the message from the ashcroft story is that political party funding is inherently flawed, electioneering is an expensive business donors on the scale of ashcroft expect a return on their investments
He wants power and influence with the most powerful man in the country so So hes buying it, doesnt sound very much like democracy
Belive me, with the Money Tone is now raking in , it won't be long before he goes offshore in some tax efficient way. Whats wrong with playing the whistle FFS?