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Seems to me that you could spec a Passat with tons of cool stuff and it'd come out the same or a bit more than a basic E-Class.
So which would you go for? For me it'd be more gadgets.
The smallest I need with the fewest gadgets. And not in brown.
Not even a fan of electric windows, but aircon and a nice stereo are useful.
Having picked up my new (to me) car tonight then the answer is obviously the red one.
?
I don't like the way all the tech and gadgets has been pushing up prices. It's not even optional a lot of it as the manufacturers compete to have the highest 'base spec' in class. Most of it seems to be novelty value only and when an option or setting is set once that's it forever. Auto turn on this and auto sensing that is cool for 5mins then it's forgotten about. I wish there were more well built cars stripped of all the unnecessary automated gadgetry stuff available for lower prices but still used the technology available to improve handling and ride characteristics.
There are certain features I like, like heated screens, but they’re not available on all marques, a good DAB radio that is easy to use, with a simple interface with my iPhone, and a good, easy to use aircon/climate system, and an uncomplicated dash layout; Ford have the heated screen, and are generally ok, but their dash ergonomics suck! The radio is horribly difficult to select stations on, and there are far too many fussy little buttons to select from while driving. Higher spec models do seem to have an easier to use touch-screen, but there are better layouts. I’d rather spend more on the seats, suspension and tyres than fancy toys, like glass roof panels and the like, although I’ve developed a liking for adaptive LED lighting systems.
Spec all the way, WGAF about a badge.
But IME the Passat is overpriced generally compared to its direct competitors.
Whichever one is RWD if you enjoy driving, whichever one has the comfiest seats if you don't.
Personally, I'd buy a much older model of something interesting, preferably with a V8. It amazes me that people will spend such vast amounts of money on something new with a nice looking interior when 99% of the time you (hopefully) won't be looking at it. 💡
There are certain features I like, like heated screens,
Absolutely. There are some extras that only come with higher spec cars, such as the heated screen which to make a huge difference.
Having said that I bet manufacturers get mixed messages about what people want out of a car.
There are some extras that only come with higher spec cars, such as the heated screen which to make a huge difference.
Heated screens are in the very basic ranges now too our works Ka is the base one and has a heated screen.
Comfortable seat, air con, good fuel economy. As little cost as possible.
That's how I choose my works car anyway.
The Mondeo. 🙂
Both?
Or V70 SE cost less than the comparable Mondeo Titanium....
As above, comfy seat, cruise, heated screen nice stereo and I'm good.
Spec up. It P's me off when buying a used car with the crappy spec some cars were, especially when looking at the more premium brands where people obviously went for the badge with a crap spec just to really struggle to afford the badge. Pointless and vain. Speccing up definitely improves the chance of selling on and getting the strongest price. I also hate those button blanks that scream out to me that I haven't got quite as good a car as I could have.
Anyway, you're talking about a VW so that is a premium brand. A Mondeo is the smart person's option. Spec'd upto the eyeballs, easily as good quality as any of the mainstream German badges and drives better than them too. I also think the latest Mondeo is a pretty car, especially the estate. Certainly prettier than the current Merc range that just look pig ugly to me.
There is less and less difference between the premium brands and the likes of Ford these days. There is no longer the night and day difference there used to be, especially in quality and reliability, and they are living off past glories and reputations.
The ‘almost’ invisible element heat screen is a Ford only thing I believe. All the others use the aircon to dry the screen but they can’t really defrost,
My Dad actually did pretty much what the OP mentioned, he looked at Audi and Merc and decided he’d rather have a Passat with all extras and spent £32k on it in 2001. Financially it wasn’t a great move as it depreciated terribly and was only ever worth a bit more than a standard one, but he’s still got it so I doubt he cares.
These days with so many spec levels available you dont have to pick lots of options - there’s always a ‘sporty’ on and a ‘luxury’ one depending on your taste near the top of the range and they’re usually good value when you consider depredation - especially as everyone leases these days don’t they?
Pjay. Think that has changed now, proper heated screen was on the golf options list when I was looking the other day. Been able to get one for my Elise for years!
I'd prefer a higher spec lower brand car most of the time - I think leasing is where it falls apart as it often works out cheaper going for a premium brand + you get stung a lot on the options (as I guess depreciation hits them more).
I’m currently considering a 3 series touring or C Class AMG line estate, having abandoned the idea of keeping my 120d.
I’m favouring the Merc on the basis its a more comfortable ride, despite being a year older. I want the comfort now but I’m thinking this is my last purchase for a few years so am looking to the future really.
So er no, more toys is not the only consideration.
I like all the tech that’s coming on small city cars.. those little C3’s have oodles of toys and seem to be loved by owners. Then there are Smart ForTwos which have plenty of gadgets (I have owned a few fortwos in the past, a Pulse and Brabus)
I remember back when 205’s came out and Pug did a “Roland Garros” version, gawd it was lovely. Plenty of leather heated seats, high spec stereo, comfortable to drive and luxurious to be in..
So, I guess I’m a fan of small luxury well specd cars..
He says, owning a fully kitted SUV 🤷♂️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️👍🤣
mrsdts Passat came with more extras than she ordered it with, its on a business lease and I presume the lease buyer added bits that would protect their asset for resale. Not complaining, probably does effect the P11d though.
Has heated element in windscreen, Fords patent ended on that a while ago.
Very few of the opinons seem to leave me smiling for long.
Good comfy leather seats are an absolute must for me though, something you can wipe the mark left by a oily and muddy cassette etc. (Even if you only stick a wheel in absentmindedly when doing something)
remote windows are nice ... an enduring smile being able to lock and do the windows but that’s probably standard now. Cruise control that on a manual let’s you change gears is one I like ... my old car used to drop out of cruise control if I changed gear.
I rarely drive short distances... so for me the driving experience is paramount. Very few gadgets endure as someone else said you switch something on and then leave it. (Mostly .. why would I turn off traction control in normal life)
any tech will soon be outdated and stuff like sat nav will just be a reminder you can do the same on a phone. (Only bettter/cheaper and more options because you can change to the latest app) but the more built into a console the more you are stuck with.
I chose on size last time, the 3 or 4 series was £150-200 more per month than my equally speced 1 series.
Different things matter to different folk
By all means toy it up if you're on a PCH but kit can become a liability if (like me) you tend to buy a car at about 4 years old and keep it for another 10. I'd rather cars remained simpler but that horse has bolted, especially with short term nature of new car ownership promoted by PCH and PCP. Repairing the iDrive on an F31 has just cost a friend north of a grand, I don't think there's a spec without it now though.
any tech will soon be outdated and stuff like sat nav will just be a reminder you can do the same on a phone. (Only bettter/cheaper and more options because you can change to the latest app) but the more built into a console the more you are stuck with.
The tech is an interesting one and something I've found poor in many of the cars I've been in. Clunky software running on clunky hardware. I'm not the target market for a new or nearly new car, but this stuff certainly puts me off buying older cars. If I can't fit a standard headunit that's a potential dealbreaker for me. Would be nice to see some standards return for this kind of stuff, to at least have the option to refresh outdated technology in years to come, or simply replace the junk the car came with in the first place.
As for the original question. Base model/premium badge? No chance. Don't really see the point. Go for the Passat.
Seems to me that you could spec a Passat with tons of cool stuff and it’d come out the same or a bit more than a basic E-Class.
So which would you go for? For me it’d be more gadgets.
Surely the old Passat has lots of life left in it :-)?
Depends what you are missing out on the base spec car. From a practical sense, there are other factors that should be considered in this scenario, depending on how you buy/finance/lease the car. You will loose a much bigger chunk of cash in depreciation on a Passat with £10k of options than a base spec E-Class (even taking into account the different depreciation curves of the standard vehicles). Less important if you think you will be keeping it for 10+ years.
My Passat is full of clever tech and some of its very nice but two days ago it threw a bloody great electrical wobbly, which I now have to pay to fix.
So what I really want is a car that's built properly and has a long warranty.
More seriously there's virtually nothing about this well spec'd car that i would miss compared to the much more basic Mondeo that this car replaced. And the Mondeo drove better.
If you are genuinely looking at whether your radio buttons are plated in llama tooth enamel or are worried about audio description of your Facebook feed then I'd suggest you might want to spend more time looking out of the windows.
with short term nature of new car ownership promoted by PCH and PCP
Or not actual ownership ... just liability??
Though I completely agree, the new car market is driven by short term "ownership" .. even when someone is actually buying the majority are just looking to have a car for 1-2 years.
In many cases it seems the entire car is built on a premise the original owner will never need to change a bulb as they will have sold the car long before the first bulb needs replacing. Replacing those and whatever electronics are required to simply drive the car is the problem of the subsequent owners.
The tech is an interesting one and something I’ve found poor in many of the cars I’ve been in. Clunky software running on clunky hardware. I’m not the target market for a new or nearly new car, but this stuff certainly puts me off buying older cars. If I can’t fit a standard headunit that’s a potential dealbreaker for me. Would be nice to see some standards return for this kind of stuff, to at least have the option to refresh outdated technology in years to come, or simply replace the junk the car came with in the first place.
That's sorta the whole point ... I've lost count of the number of SatNav screens used to mount a phone holder... of course you can't do this if it pops away...
The missus has a fairly new car (2015 if I remember) but you can't actually "drive it" without the LCD touch screen - at least if you want to do something like autostart/stop or turn off the tyre indicator warning or .... access some of the useful functions like MPG...
The SatNav... probably looked state of the art in 2015 .. the rear parking camera was possibly OK etc.
My brother has a fairly newish Defender... (obviously way more expensive) but everything is fixable. (well not everything but stuff like the hot/cold vents are mechanical... antenna etc.)
Some of the stuff in the last 20yrs is genuinely useful..(ABS, traction control, AC, central locking, heated windscreen and mirrors etc) but I reckon a lot of it is just what would be bloatware on a computer.
It's a few pence worth of electronics that can be sold for a few hundred or thousand.
(e.g. a GPS chip or a accelerometer, Wifi or bluetooth cost pennies in bulk and a half decent camera module for a phone <£10)
sbobMember
Whichever one is RWD if you enjoy driving
😂
My Passat is full of clever tech and some of its very nice but two days ago it threw a bloody great electrical wobbly, which I now have to pay to fix.
So what I really want is a car that’s built properly and has a long warranty.
Buy new, or accept that the huge saving you make in buying second hand has inherent risks? If those risks weren't there nobody would ever buy a new car.
I would only spec extra stuff you actually need. So for me, not much at all tbh. I don't need a car to talk to my phone, or require apps, mood lighting, auto lights/wipers/remove brain things, heated seats......arrrrgh, it's all bollocks and I can't stand it.
Get the nicer basic one.
sbob
Member
Whichever one is RWD if you enjoy driving
@retro83 ... I would need a real good reason to go back to a FWD car.
The ‘almost’ invisible element heat screen is a Ford only thing I believe. All the others use the aircon to dry the screen but they can’t really defrost,
My Panda 4x4 has this. As nixie mentioned so do some others.
" I would need a real good reason to go back to a FWD car."
Id need a really good reason to give a shit which wheels are driven*
*regular driver of FWD,RWD and AWD vehicles - they all get me there while adhering to the speed limit with varying amounts of stuff - No getting the back out end out , making progress or hooning around here 😀
with the exception of cruise control , i really like cruise control/speed limiter due to all the new average speed cameras on the roads near me - lets me set my speed and watch what the idiots around me are doing instead of having to constantly monitoring the speedo. Get on the dualer and because its a berlingo - i set the cruise to 45mph and watch the chaos happen around my mobile road block*^2
*^2 joe king for the hard of thinking
@retro83 … I would need a real good reason to go back to a FWD car.
That's fine, good for you. I was laughing at the recommendation of picking a car based solely on this for 'driving enjoyment'.
For example, for driving enjoyment, would you take an Lexus LS over a Renaultsport Megane RS?
Or a 130i over a Fiesta ST?
Or a Ssangyong Rhodius over an S Max?
Or a 318i SE over a Honda Civic Type R?
Couldn't give a monkeys about tech, less the better the better for me.
Give me something that's an enjoyable drive and goes well, will be getting an older car and using it less when my current car goes.
a bit of both. I hate peasant spec cars and have always gone for better specced ones, but I'm also a brand snob and tend to prefer german cars
I'm not so fussed about age though so my option is to look a bit harder and find the right car in the right spec in the right condition
My only new car and leased cars was through my dad when he was in the trade. Otherwise they've all been bought second hand for cash
Last summer I hired a car and they gave me a top spec peugeot 3008.
it had a nice looking digital dash display but what a ****ing nightmare if you wanted to change anything while driving. By anything I mean, heat controls were in a menu, radio, where the air vents blew all in a menu or sub menu.
it was a shit car but even shitter that they went all out for tech rather than the drivers ability to drive.
anyway. Sometimes the options you think are helpful are in fact shite and the ones which you don’t think you’ll use, are fantastic.
remote boot open / close. Awesome.
remote boot open / close. Awesome.
I have minions do that for me, including doors.
I also have a clap-lamp in my study. clap-clap On. clap-clap Off. clap-clap On. clap-clap Off.
Oh the fun I have.
You will loose a much bigger chunk of cash in depreciation on a Passat with £10k of options than a base spec E-Class
Which is brilliant for 2nd hand buyers like me.
We looked at replacing our Gawd Awful Ford Ranger on the Farm with one of these, the original Boggo one was excellent spec.. it had rubber mats, plastic seats, wipe clear dash, a radio with big buttons and a heater control unit with a massive dial.. Awesome.. the car was cheap too.. but now they've gone and got "people/focus groups" involved and it's now comparatively as expensive/close to a Subaru XV (that has loads of kit on and yet is technically difficult to use)
The ‘almost’ invisible element heat screen is a Ford only thing I believe.
Ford held the patent so no-one else could do it, but the patent expired a few years ago which is why you're now seeing it on other marques.
That’s fine, good for you. I was laughing at the recommendation of picking a car based solely on this for ‘driving enjoyment’.
And yet you resort to comparing apples to oranges to try and make your point?
Why not pick two similar cars?
Because it would only reinforce the opinion that there are two ways to drive a car; rear wheel drive and wrong wheel drive.
sbobAnd yet you resort to comparing apples to oranges to try and make your point?
Why not pick two similar cars?
Because it would only reinforce the opinion that there are two ways to drive a car; rear wheel drive and wrong wheel drive.
I was trying to be kind to you sbob, but to be honest you're talking absolute shit.
Here's what you said:
Whichever one is RWD if you enjoy driving
Total rubbish and the 'wrong wheel drive' comment backs it up.
Depends on the options, depends what I need it for.
Less premium car, minimal extras, more money for important stuff like fun cars or bikes.
Whichever one is RWD if you enjoy driving,
Both a Passat and a basic Merc will be dull as dishwater to drive.
If both cars are the same price, then I would go for the one that has the best ergonomics, seats etc etc. However it wouldn't be a Merc or VW.
However it wouldn’t be a Merc or VW.
Nope, it would be the Beemer.
Can I put a bid in for X factor. Some cars (premium or otherwise) are just really ugly or the seating position does not work for you etc. You might go for the irrational choice to accommodate those aspects.
Total rubbish and the ‘wrong wheel drive’ comment backs it up.
FWD was nothing but a cost cutting exercise. No one designs a driver's car with FWD. No one.
Except Lotus with the FWD Elan. Which isn't as good a drive as the RWD Elan.
That’s fine, good for you. I was laughing at the recommendation of picking a car based solely on this for ‘driving enjoyment’.
For example, for driving enjoyment, would you take an Lexus LS over a Renaultsport Megane RS?
Or a 130i over a Fiesta ST?
Or a Ssangyong Rhodius over an S Max?
Or a 318i SE over a Honda Civic Type R?
Driving enjoyment and FWD/RWD/AWD isn't that clean cut... and I guess we should be comparing RWD apples with FWD apples.
Redlining a Type R .... is a bit transitory unless you are on a track..(a few seconds and your out of road/legal limit and/or both and that's only in 3rd). heck flooring my diesel with a measly 285 BHP soon runs out of legal road...the first real performance car I drove was a tuned up 306 Gti-6.. scared myself shitless on the uphill onto the motorway... but after some time the power and engine noise became normal... and its go-cart ability the same whereas behaviour in traffic was painful. I even took the Carlton 1.8 auto-slug about town instead..
My current RWD car though just puts a small grin on my face pretty much constantly... it doesn't need pushing to do it. (It might be a smaller grin but it last longer)
FWD was nothing but a cost cutting exercise. No one designs a driver’s car with FWD. No one.
Except Lotus with the FWD Elan. Which isn’t as good a drive as the RWD Elan.
And almost all renaultsport cars.
And nobody accuses the original mini of not handling well.
The ability to hold the tail out under power isn't really integral to driving, and if you want the best performance you'd have 4wd anyway.
There's simply far more to a good car than which wheels are driven. And when you're buying a large car, there's far more to it than how it handles on twisty roads. Hence you need some spare cash for fun cars.
Driving enjoyment and FWD/RWD/AWD isn’t that clean cut… and I guess we should be comparing RWD apples with FWD apples.
No, that's exactly the point: he said "whichever one has rear wheel drive" disregarding all other factors.
Driving enjoyment comes from a number of things nicely weighted controls, lack of understeer, nice gearchange, steering feedback etc.
All things being equal, I'd probably take the RWD car, but all things are not equal. Hence why saying RWD is great and FWD is 'wrong wheel drive' is total rubbish.
Which is brilliant for 2nd hand buyers like me.
Indeed. As long as you can also accept the downsides.
And almost all renaultsport cars.
They're not cars that have been designed with FWD for driving enjoyment. They're shopping carts that have been tuned up. Their flagship was RWD.
disregarding all other factors.
Life must be bleak if you take everything so literally.
And almost all renaultsport cars.
And nobody accuses the original mini of not handling well.
The ability to hold the tail out under power isn’t really integral to driving, and if you want the best performance you’d have 4wd anyway.
It's not simply about road holding....
There’s simply far more to a good car than which wheels are driven. And when you’re buying a large car, there’s far more to it than how it handles on twisty roads.
See how it handles at moderate speeds on twisty roads is also important... as is how it feels at 70... etc.
No, that’s exactly the point: he said “whichever one has rear wheel drive” disregarding all other factors.
Erm yep... but one of the two choices is FWD and the other is RWD....
Hence why saying RWD is great and FWD is ‘wrong wheel drive’ is total rubbish.
Yeah, it's just particularly dull witted rage induced rambling/trolling 🙂
I've always been into nice cars, but where does this fun driving actually happen? I guess I'm getting old, but given the congestion on our roads, and modern/sensible attitudes to speeding and safety, a car that is comfortable, quiet, composed and relaxing is much more important than being fun. Public roads are pretty boring places generally, unless you are purposely being a cock (or, avoiding one, I guess).
I’m favouring the Merc on the basis its a more comfortable ride, despite being a year older. I want the comfort now but I’m thinking this is my last purchase for a few years so am looking to the future really.
I bought a C class estate Sport in 2011. Its brilliant, 130k on the clock and its like new. I will replace it with the same but cant be bothered to part with the cash when this one is so good.
Yeah, it’s just particularly dull witted rage induced rambling/trolling
I’ve always been into nice cars, but where does this fun driving actually happen? I guess I’m getting old, but given the congestion on our roads, and modern/sensible attitudes to speeding and safety, a car that is comfortable, quiet, composed and relaxing is much more important than being fun. Public roads are pretty boring places generally, unless you are purposely being a cock (or, avoiding one, I guess).
Quite the opposite ... I've been through the fast hot hatch and such.... and Sunday was explaining to Jnr WHY I wouldn't have a McClaren.... (we live very close to HQ)
My RWD car is comfortable, quiet, composed and relaxing AND fun at the same time without acting like a cock. (Though I used alternate words with the 8yr old)
My RWD car is comfortable, quiet, composed and relaxing AND fun at the same time without acting like a cock. (Though I used alternate words with the 8yr old)
I don't really see how any journey on UK roads cruising along in a comfortable/composed (and safe) way at the speed limit could be deemed 'fun'*. Pleasant at best. Satisfying maybe, if the roads are quiet. I don't see a good RWD car being significantly different from a good FWD car in these circumstances (and I drive both regularly). If you push it, maybe (and of course, on the track), but on public roads, where can you do that (responsibly) to the extent it becomes fun?
* might depend on your definition.
Seems to me that you could spec a Passat with tons of cool stuff and it’d come out the same or a bit more than a basic E-Class.
they're both well made cars. Personally i've found the seats in Mercs to be better than anything else i've sat in (not spent any time in Volvos). We've only had smaller VW's but that's the thing I'd really like to upgrade.
A lot of extras stuff in modern cars seem like box ticking. Beyond aircon, cruise (better still speed limiter) and a decent sound system (with BT connection) most of the other stuff seems of little benefit. Even SatNav and in car phone seem a bit superfluous - a decent phone mount on the dash and I found sound quality often better with an iphone on speaker than over car system.
Anything that moves controls away from physical switches that you can operate by feel seems like a UI nightmare. A lot of the automatic stuff seems badly designed (internal panel lights on without headlights? WTF? had to tap on someones window last night who was driving on front daylight running lights only at 10pm.). Heated seats might be great in Sweden but do you really need them in the UK?
"My RWD car is comfortable, quiet, composed and relaxing AND fun at the same time without acting like a cock."
So you mean you just like rwd and it makes zero difference to your driving experiance if it was 2wd/4wd /fwd/rwd or a hovercar.
and as Angeldust. Without being a complete killjoy anyone who looks for their driving to be fun scares me shitless. I don't want people having 'fun' around me on the motorway and I definitely don't want to meet them on a country lane or a rural A road when I'm on my bike. I don't want them driving up my street either. Safe, yes, comfortable yes but public roads are not the place to be having 'fun' in a car.
Fun to me implies addrenaline and a level of risk - at least that's what i get out of mtb
If any of the road network is fun at a legal speed then it's poorly designed and/or the speed limit is too high.
Fun to me implies addrenaline and a level of risk – at least that’s what i get out of mtb
This.
If you are a race driver on a race track; drifting; or on a track day; I get it that RWD is more fun.
On public roads driving responsibly (at legal speed limits), insisting RWD makes a difference is usually to justify your choice of car (usually BMW 3 series), or you are just regurgitating something you read on Pistonheads. I drive similar spec'd 3/5 series (RWD and 4WD) , and A4/A6's (FWD and 4WD) quite a lot. Both are generally very nice cars, and they feel a bit different, but under normal driving conditions I don't find there is any significant difference in the 'fun' factor.
Having to drive a poor car (cheap skoda, most Vauxhalls, Fiats) I find pretty miserable compared to better alternatives, but it's not the fun factor that makes a difference.
Some driving aids encourage this stupidity...
I don’t really see how any journey on UK roads cruising along in a comfortable/composed (and safe) way at the speed limit could be deemed ‘fun’*. Pleasant at best. Satisfying maybe, if the roads are quiet. I don’t see a good RWD car being significantly different from a good FWD car in these circumstances (and I drive both regularly). If you push it, maybe (and of course, on the track), but on public roads, where can you do that (responsibly) to the extent it becomes fun?
* might depend on your definition.
Its down to definition and setting my own expectations... (and it’s fun with a small f)
For me though the fun with a small f is down to the “not significantly different in these circumstances” ... it’s enough to make me grin a small grin... pretty much every time I drive.
Could I drive a good FWD round the same bend at the same speed... sure .. I could drive a crap one but the tiny tell it’s RWD is enough to make me smile.
90% of my driving by time at the moment tends to be out of towns at weekends before 08:00 so I’m not sat in traffic or pleasant goes out of the window.
Adrenaline ... well I used to do that in cars on the trackdays but now I’m too busy getting it on a bike .. so I adjust my expectations and justify my choice...or lack of choice in wanting to change my car for anything else (though a nice van as well would be pleasant)
Whether it’s more pleasant or fun ... yes a matter of definition but given the toss up between the two I’ll go for the one that puts a small grin on a regular basis?
Having to drive a poor car
Yep, rented a big Kia estate a few years back. Suspect both shorter and narrower than our car but felt huge and lifeless, feedback free steering meant it felt completely disconnected from the road. The Fiat 500 we rented earlier this year was the same until i found the button to turn off “city” mode that made the steering super light for parking,
Personally, if you are paying your own money, get a Japanese car. Simple. BMW are the best out of the German brands - not keen on Mercs as they still rust - seen too many to trust them, and a mate is a car nut and has a Aston Vantage that's 10 years old, but his garage has shown him the rust on new(ish) Mercs on the underside.
We've had 15 year plus ownership of Japanese cars from new. Very little went wrong. Nissan and Toyota. Loads of toys inside if you spec a nearly new car, and you save a fortune on NEW RRP.
PCP/lease, get what ever is cheapest. You won't see the long term issues.
Extras were zero valued when I leased my Eos. That apparently included the £1800 leather seats. Which just about every convertible has.
Premuim car every time if buying new and financing the depreciation (aka pcp or leasing). If used or old and used, then toys on an already good car. We have a top spec CRV. Toys are great!
WGAF about a badge
Not me. The 'premium car' bit is about higher build spec - so more sound insulation, thicker glass, more standard kit etc. I've not looked into it seriously of course, so this might not be necessarily true although I perceive it to be. I have had quite a few nice taxis lately, mostly E-Class, and they are clearly quieter inside than cheaper cars. They also seem to come with progressive springs or something, the car seems to be supple up to a point but not roll too much. Not sure I like how that feels though.
Which brings me onto the gadgets themselves. I don't much care for fancy trim or footwell lighting or crap like that. But the 'adaptive chassis control' thing on VWs or similar would appeal to me - the ability to make the car more plush on motorways and firm it up for other driving. If it works, that is!
Other things I'm interested in would include
- Climate control - the system in the Prius is great. I select the temperature and it adjusts the vents appropriately and also takes sunlight into account too. Drive from shade into strong sun and a second later the air's got colder. It sounds as if it could be annoying but it's not, it works perfectly for me.e
- Reversing camera - useful
- Automatic box, obvs
- Panoramic sunroof, maybe. I thought it ridiculous, but every time I get in a car with one it feels amazing. Ok, so I've not done a long drive in one in the hot sun....
- Integrated satnav. Yes, a phone is more up to date, but having a built in unit with a better display like a HUD or something by the instruments, that's better imo. But the ideal option on paper would seem to be the phone integration - so you use the up-to-date Google maps but built into the dash. No crappy windscreen suckers.
- On some cars you can get self levelling rear suspension for heavy loads or towing. I really want this!
- I'd quite fancy radar cruise control, maybe.
- Auto dipping lights would be good.
- Heated seats - I didn't like this idea for years until I realised that on a low setting combined with a lower fan speed it makes you feel warmer quicker on cold days.
- In principle I'd love a 4wd version to help with towing, snow and generally driving, but you lose a fair bit of MPG it seems.
- Road sign recognition - could be handy for making sure you haven't missed a speed limit sign.
Surely the old Passat has lots of life left in it :-)?
It certainly does. Just had new shocks all round and new driveshafts, makes a huge difference. Drives beautifully now. It's going to have to last at least three more years. This is purely window shopping, there will be no car purchase 🙂
Re the RWD argument. Seriously? Driving enjoyment is only related to speed and boy racerism? What about cruising along through beautiful scenery on a nice day on a quiet road, with no time pressures? Two roads that have made me happy lately: The M6 north of Lancaster, and the M3 after Basingstoke towards Farnborough - coming over the rises seeing all those trees stretching out makes me feel happy. I don't really care which set of wheels is being driven. I mean, I love speed, power and engineering, I really do, but I don't see the public road system as a place to explore this. It's just not compatible.
I have a 12 focus estate titanium spec and I have to admit I have become very accustomed to auto wipers and lights. Since buying the car last year I haven't once touched the wipers, and when it starts raining it never gets old watching the car sort itself out, adjusting with rain intensity.
Heated windscreen for those three weeks of the year is a joy, and the other 49 you just forget it's there
Auto lights - as ridiculous as it sounds - I now couldn't imagine having to worry about faffing turning lights on and off. That (genuinely) seems very old fashioned to me now. Who wants to deal with this.
Cruise - obviously, I think this is a standard feature on any car in the last 10 years? So preaching to the converted. But certainly now couldn't drive as happily without it. I, too, am (mostly) a speed limit set it and forget it, watch all the fools around me do whatever they want. I do this from 30mph upwards. Again, why have to think about it?
I want to just get in the car and not really worry about anything other than being as completely relaxed as possible and the road ahead. Usually have a podcast on. This car does a pretty good job of it, considering it wasn't hugely expensive.
Future wants: radar cruise and a good auto box. Also cruise that doesn't have to be clicked back on after a gear change, but this would be moot with an auto. This will be my additional specification for the next car. My car just missed the euro ncap year of emergency breaking being standard, I would also like this. When queueing for a turn I don't even bother looking right now until I know the car in front has definitely gone. Too many near misses with overly hesitant drivers you assumed would have gone, while you creep forward looking right for your space, only to glance back forward and you're 1" from their rear bumper.
Panoramic sunroof, maybe. I thought it ridiculous, but every time I get in a car with one it feels amazing. Ok, so I’ve not done a long drive in one in the hot sun….
Most have a cover to eliminate/minimise this issue. I've never found it a problem.
What about cruising along through beautiful scenery on a nice day on a quiet road, with no time pressures?
Absolutely, and hypermiling can be fun without ever being dangerous. I feel sorry for those people that have wasted huge amounts of money on cars and then don't even enjoy them. I love driving even though I choose not to for environmental reasons, but then I enjoy the simple pleasures like holding a RWD car in perfect balance on the throttle around a corner, it just feels "right", and I appreciate that most drivers will never be able to tell the difference.
No crappy windscreen suckers.
Don't understand why anyone does this. A car costs a lot, it really doesn't cost much to get a proper mount for your phone or satnav.
https://www.brodit.com/proclip.html
plus
https://www.brodit.com/product.html?id=213005&pn=prod
and then attach your phone/satnav mount/iPod to those.
https://www.brodit.com/productList.html?brand=Apple&model=iPhone+5&pn=prod
They even sell them sized to fit phones with cases.
I just buy based on the cup holders.
I honestly have never used a cup holder. 😯
I like to have a mug of coffee held in perfect balance in my cupholder. I appreciate that most drivers will never be able to tell the difference.
Our family fleet comprises:
1 year old basic spec Polo. 1.2 Petrol, Av 55mpg
12 year basic spec Merc 3 litre diesel estate Av 35 mpg
6 year old full spec Merc V8 silly cabriolet. Av 25 mpg
Mileage wise they get the most use in that order. Our average mpg across the fleet (mileage adjusted) works out around 38.
The Polo has the best DAB/Phone interface - it has no Sat Nav as we bought it for local runs and we know our way around here.
The 6 year old Merc is gadget central but feels dated apart from the radar cruises control which is ace thou a bit unnerving sometimes.
I did 585 miles in the 12 year old Merc yesterday and didn’t miss any of the gadgets of the newer cars.
I’m fortunate in being able to drive the right car for the journey I’m doing. So ...
Polo for any trip sub 20 miles.
Old Merc for big long hauls
Newer Merc for hooning but has to be at least 20 miles to make it worth waking it up for.
Can’t say I really notice the lack of or increase of gadgets when changing between the cars but I’d rather have the right power / handling / comfort for the driving type than than the toys.
Re the RWD argument. Seriously? Driving enjoyment is only related to speed and boy racerism? What about cruising along through beautiful scenery on a nice day on a quiet road, with no time pressures? Two roads that have made me happy lately: The M6 north of Lancaster, and the M3 after Basingstoke towards Farnborough – coming over the rises seeing all those trees stretching out makes me feel happy. I don’t really care which set of wheels is being driven. I mean, I love speed, power and engineering, I really do, but I don’t see the public road system as a place to explore this. It’s just not compatible.
This is actually a large part of my preference for the RWD.... (and some form of manual...)
It's probably not unrelated to those E Class Taxi's you were in either.
The whole point is that you don't need to be pushing a car to its limits or even close to feel the difference ... it's just how the car feels as the power is transferred.
I'm not saying taking a car out of a track isn't FUN ... just that you can have fun by just appreciating the tiny differences.
What difference does it make in the real world???
Bugger all but its a chance to smile on a regular basis... it won't get you there any faster... it just makes getting there more fun and less chore. It's like having a quiet drive chain... does it make a real world difference?
For me and YMMV... a lot of the techy toys make me smile for 10 minutes...
– Integrated satnav. Yes, a phone is more up to date, but having a built in unit with a better display like a HUD or something by the instruments, that’s better imo. But the ideal option on paper would seem to be the phone integration – so you use the up-to-date Google maps but built into the dash. No crappy windscreen suckers.
I use Waze more now ... though when getting somewhere new I switch to google maps...
Waze has some funny ideas of how to get to places where the pin is off the roads but then its been within 2-3 mins of prediction on trips from Gloucestershire to Surrey however the real point is I can actually CHOOSE.
Ideally (on paper) the ideal for me is being able to connect the phone screen to the dash screen... (and obviously audio) but let the phone do the actual processing/voice recognition etc. The car is just a "dumb" receptor, microphone and touch screen...
My last car didn't have central locking, ABS or electric windows. 😯
It also never went wrong. 😎