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I have searched and some similar stuff came up but legal position seemed unclear as it descended into Rugby mums and entitlement..
I parked in a small, empty car park on a Sunday evening, ticket says I entered at 17.14pm and left at 19.01pm. Mate checked the board and said first 90 minutes is free and they stop charging at all at 19.00.
Obviously we over stayed by 15 minutes. We came back to a pretty empty car park as well so we weren't stopping anybody else from parking.
I've looked online and the advice about penalties being OK these days as a deterrent (Parking Eye vs Beavis) seems to regard circumstances in free car parks where no other loss can be established (i.e. its OK to levy as penalty as they have no other income source to fund a deterrent scheme).
This would have been a paid car park for the 18.45pm to 19.00pm period that we over stayed. Any point in offering up the £1 and hoping they accept that? Would that be legally acceptable?
Company is Premier Park Ltd
It sounds to me like you didn't pay for your parking so have been fined. Is the best course of action not to be to pay the fine?
You might have noticed the request for info on the legal position re a fine related to over staying in a paid for car park?
If I'm legally obliged to, then I will pay. However, if the legal position is that I should only be charged the £1 then why would that not be the best course of action?
Further checking on the BPA website suggests that all members should offer a mimimum of ten minutes grace period.
That leaves 5 minutes maximum over stay, for £100!
How long from the date of the incident to them sending the charge notice? Does the notice detail the appeal procedure and is it a POFA compliant ticket?
If it's POFA compliant and over 15 days, you're in the clear. If it's not POFA compliant, you don't have to name the driver.
At least that's how I remember not having to pay one last year.
What's the car park? "90 minutes free" may suggest it was a supermarket or shopping centre. If you were a customer there then you might be able to get the shop / whatever to overturn it?
That leaves 5 minutes maximum over stay
So you stayed for 15 minutes more than the free 90 minutes allows and they have charged you but you think that they shouldn't because you only stayed for 5 minutes more than the 10 minute grace period they already gave you?
Good luck with the store helping.
I bought a large item from Currys Huddersfield and picked it up in a van.
In order to park outside the store the van went over 2 bays (short bay,long vehicle) while we loaded in - 10 minutes tops.
Got a £90 fine.
Contacted the parking company who basically said 'we've got a photo to prove it happened, not interested in why, don't care'.
Went to speak to Manager at Currys who thought it was funny and said it was nothing to do with them.
He then went to tell his staff at the other end of the counter and they all had a chuckle.
Issued in plenty of time and the appeal procedure is listed, which I assume they refuse as a matter of course?
Unsure as to whether or not I have to name the driver? Anybody know?
Its the loss bit that I think will be critical as precedents appear to reflect free car parks - they've lost 5 minutes of parking charge!
johndoh, you're playing hard to think aren't you?
Its the legal position that I'm seeking to understand. Is it legally permissable to charge £100 for a 15 minute over stay in a car park that has defined parking charges? Code of Practice says MINIMUM 10 minutes grace (I didn't know that at the time), then add the time to park (the ticket has my entry time rather than my parking time) and I'm sub 5 minutes.
Cougar - not sure tbh as its not local to me, think it used to be an Asda car park but that shut down. Its a high street location (behind the high street)
johndoh, you’re playing hard to think aren’t you?
Get over yourself – don't take it out on me because you thought you'd get away without paying for your parking and you're pissed off.
they’ve lost 5 minutes of parking charge!
Are they allowed to charge for the resources they've used in identifying and processing the claim for that loss?
Offering them £1 isn't going to cover the time they've spent processing the claim is it.
If it costs £100 to process a claim I'm in the wrong job.
Are you lonely johndoh? Plenty of other threads to get sanctimonius on.
dooosuk - that is actually the legal bit that I'm trying to understand. I assume everything is camera driven so won't cost them much. The resources bit as I understand is what was used to win the Beavis case because in that precedent it was a free car park, therefore to set up and run a deterrent scheme they need to issues penalties as they have no other income streams.
Just thought there might be a definitve position as it comes up on here quite often. This particular company are not exactly seen to be market leaders in their approach...
Premier Park is one of the companies who demanded money with menaces from me In this case when my wife stayed at Starbucks for another latte.
I have previously posted my approach to them, but I won't repeat it due to the crap I got on here on the back of it. Pay up only if you really want to.
They are chancers, and mugs who pay up are just encouraging them. A bit of collective backbone and the jig would be up and the scam would collapse.
Whoa there OP!
Not sure why you’re taking out your frustration on here, except that you’re likely feeling a tad pissed off that you’ve received a fine for an oversight on your part.
Have you returned to the car park to read their parking t’s & c’s? I strongly suggest you do because generally, despite what the internet may or may not say, your legal position is entrenched with whatever those terms stipulate and if that means you over ran your parking time, or didn’t pay at all because you thought /hoped you’d get away with it, then my suggestion is to pay the fine, especially if you have a 14 day discounted fine period.
The ex Mrs Slack didn’t pay a parking fine ( well, two as it turns out) on the same principles as you, ignored all the letters and ended up with two CCJ’s and bailiffs knocking at the door. Admittedly, the car park owners in question were NCP, however, even the smaller parking companies are now being quite resilient in their chasing for what they deem as freeloaders.
Alternatively, you could try tossing them the £1 that you have valued their service at and see how that pans out.
Honestly, you'd be better off posting on Pepipoo. They're experts at this, and have less-tall horses.
Slackalice - I'm asking mate to take photos of area. Frustration isn't at being fined - I clearly said I'd pay it if legally obliged to. I was just hoping for better informed legal opinions as there are lawyers on here or people that have been through the same. As usual one or two feel the need to preach...
£1 is actually what they valued their service at rather than my interpretation.
boomer - any chance of a message explaining your approach?
I took my last parting charge to the small claims court as I didn’t have much to lose cost wise and I thought it would be interesting.
The judge actually commended me on my preparation and said I presented a vat coherent argument but...
I had entered the car park thus accepting the T&C’s. Bevis v Parking Eye had put the matter to bed and I had to pay.
In my case I had paid but paid some time after I had parked the car (by the app). My argument was that the owner hadn’t suffered any financial loss through my action but the judge ruled I had parked in contravention of the T&C’s. End of...
Issued in plenty of time and the appeal procedure is listed, which I assume they refuse as a matter of course?
Unsure as to whether or not I have to name the driver? Anybody know?
There is a first appeal using their system which will get refused. You then need to raise to a popla appeal. This will cost them money so the hope is that they don't contest it.
No need to name the driver, in fact you shouldn't. Just call them "the driver"
Take some pics of the signs. There is a chance they aren't compliant.
Are you lonely johndoh? Plenty of other threads to get sanctimonius on.
Seriously? What did you expect to get as a response. You ****ed up by trying to avoid parking fees, you were caught out, you have a parking charge and you are still annoyed. Your mistake - pay the charge and think harder next time.
IANAL but looked heavily into it in the past to help my sister out ina similar situation.
Beavis vs Parking Eye set the precedent that meant that it no longer had to be a 'genuine estimate of loss' (which is where your £1 parking loss could have come in). I'd even note at this point that although they may have lost your £1 parking fee, they could also argue they spent money tracing and pursuing you, and potentially by taking up a space someone else could have used, the shop may have also lost revenue. Although that's not the Parking Co's loss, and the fact it was otherwise empty is also noted, I've see it suggested as an argument so include it here for completeness.
B vs PE changed it to allow the parking co to set a fine level as a deterrent with the ruling being that it could not be 'unconscionable' - and although £100 is steep, it isn't wired to the moon level. The argument (fair in my opinion) is that if you could park without paying, and if you get caught then be let off with paying what you would have paid anyway - then why would anyone bother paying? So your offer to pay their lost £1 fails in that regard.
As for
No need to name the driver, in fact you shouldn’t. Just call them “the driver”
Technically yes; in the past the Parking Co could only pursue the driver and (unlike a police traffic offence) withholding that name was no crime. It's still not a crime but, in the event that you don't or can't ID the driver, the registered keeper becomes liable now. So you can't escape on that technicality.
I had something similar happen early last year.
I had no objection to the fact that I should have paid for the parking, my objection was paying what I felt was a massively disproportionate amount of money (think mine was £200) for a short overstay that hadn't actually cost the car park owner anything like that.
As per the OP, I would have quite happily just paid the money they would have got if someone else had come in and paid for the spot I was using. The carpark was largely empty, fwiw.
What really boiled my wee was the blatant scare tactics - the 'parking charge notice' dressed up to look like a penalty notice, the 'pay within 10 days for a 50% discount' etc. It was clearly designed to frighten people into paying, that really irked me.
My solution was to simply ignore the increasingly threatening letters ('you may be called to court' etc) until they stopped bothering sending them. A few months after that, I got a single letter from a debt collection agency, again offering a reduced fee if I paid within a couple of weeks or so. Ignored that too, and I've heard nothing for probably 8 months.
My assumption was that it's probably not in their interest to spend loads of money trying to get £200 from me when a decent percentage of people probably just cough up the dough. I can't really call it good advice, but it seems to have worked for me and it felt pretty satisfying.
It is an approach and one that works for some, but not for others and I wonder if it is luck that they seem to have dropped yours, or that there's such a backlog that they haven't got round to it yet (and may never)
If they do though it would be a slam dunk court case against you and all the crap that entails.
Legally they are in the right to fine you; morally also, as I said before if the get out to not paying was to simply get away with paying the fee then no-one would pay.
I agree that the approach to fining you stretches the morals though (docs that are supposed to look like Penalty Charge Notices, bailiffs, and stretching the limit of 'unconscionable' in the scale of the fee) and so I have a degree of sympathy. That's why I looked into it hard when my sister got a big fine for actually paying for the 3 hour allowance but overstaying by 15 mins more.
With regards to whether you end up with a court summons it does seem to be a numbers game to them.
I got three or four tickets at the same car park (at work so park there a lot and sometimes I was clumsy) but only one went to court.
They must just fully pursue a certain percent but it seems to be pot luck.
Went to speak to Manager at Currys who thought it was funny and said it was nothing to do with them.
He then went to tell his staff at the other end of the counter and they all had a chuckle.
WTF? I hoped you complained to head office...
I did get letters from a debt collection agency. The lies they told to try and scare were laughable.
They threatened to turn up on my doorstep and take the tv. When pressed they admitted they couldn't do that without going to court. They also admitted they couldn't take me to court. The parking co could, but not a bunch of yobs in Glasgow
When I told them I was recording the call, they hung up!
Went to speak to Manager at Currys who thought it was funny and said it was nothing to do with them.
He then went to tell his staff at the other end of the counter and they all had a chuckle.
...then this happened (it really did) 😬
Karma's a bitch...
It's covered under contract law, nothing to do with fines or actual losses incurred. You enter into a contract when you park provided the signage is clear and visible. It can be worth appealing to the parking company, I know one of the big firms actually accepts about 55% of appeals, they dont want to upset their customers, the supermarkets etc. It will depend on the business model of the company. Appeals need to be based on reasons why you couldn't leave in time, not I only went over by 5 minutes after the grace period and don't think it's fair. The companies will persue you, they have systems set up to do it and have lots of practice, you will end up paying more or ending up with a bad credit score. So if you have a half decent reason for not getting back in time, medical emergency, stuck in a lift etc. its worth putting in a polite appeal, if you're like the OP and miffed you got caught not honouring the terms of the contract you freely entered into, then pay up promptly to keep you costs down.
At the end of the day private land is private and its up to the land owner how its used.
My assumption was that it’s probably not in their interest to spend loads of money trying to get £200 from me when a decent percentage of people probably just cough up the dough.
It depends entirely on the company. Some pursue more aggressively than others. They might get bored, or you might wind up with a CCJ.