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We were however extremely fortunate in both inheriting money, so this helps enormously. I struggle to see how us earning more would improve our quality of life;
ah, now it makes more sense. 😉
ah, now it makes more sense. 😉
Family i know in their late 20s inherited 50k last year, it was spent in a matter of months.
The other quote I like is
“you need the wealth to afford your principles”
I treated myself to a plum tree last week, planting it brought lots if joy.
Of all the things I've bought, I reckon trees and plants are the best value for money. A few £ for a shrub, a few £10 for a tree and once planted, year after year you get to appreciate it's foliage in the garden etc.
Family i know in their late 20s inherited 50k last year, it was spent in a matter of months.
To be fair a young family, in the SE, could probably spend a few £100k in a day just paying bits of mortgages / student loans etc and still have 'nothing' to show for it at the end (other than less debt).
"Family i know in their late 20s inherited 50k last year, it was spent in a matter of months."
"To be fair a young family, in the SE, could probably spend a few £100k in a day just paying bits of mortgages / student loans etc and still have ‘nothing’ to show for it at the end (other than less debt)."
Or equally, a fancy car and a few nice holidays, and boom, it's gone!
Family i know in their late 20s inherited 50k last year, it was spent in a matter of months
What was the thread count of their bed sheets?
Not sure, but they were in disneyland within 6 weeks of it arriving in their bank 😂
Oh hell yeah, Dolce and Gabbanna as well!
ah, now it makes more sense.
As I've mentioned, I grew up in poverty. But in an intensely frugal house, so got used to 'budgeting' from a very early age. Also got used to the idea of not having stuff, so actually, continuing that philosophy isn't that hard now that I'm in a far more comfortable situation. My mum was constantly reminding me that other people are far less well off, and that kind of stuck. Seeing real poverty in Bangladesh as a kid, really stuck with me. As a result, just don't 'want' stuff as much as other people do, perhaps. A blessing. We have no significant debt however, so are extremely lucky in this regard. Again, I accept it's a very privileged situation to be in,I make no pretence of this.
Not sure, but they were in disneyland within 6 weeks of it arriving in their bank
A friend's daughter went to Euro Disneyland recently; £3k+ for 3 days for 2 adults and 2 kids. For the same amount they could have had multiple holidays I'm sure, or a really nice one for 2 weeks or so. They are now pleading poverty and trying to tap up my friend for money to pay their bills. As someone who also grew up in poverty, he wasn't shy about telling them exactly what he thought of their profligacy. I think the easy credit, 'enjoy now pay later' philosophy that so many people seem to have chosen, means that many simply do not have the ability to see ahead more than a very short period. Either that or they've given up teaching basic maths in schools. His daughter's response was 'well we deserve a holiday!' Deserve. And there we are again with that sense of entitlement. How do we engender society away from such thinking?
Not sure, but they were in disneyland within 6 weeks of it arriving in their bank 😂
Madness.
Even allowing for chucking a load at a mortgage or some immediate necessary expenditure or something, that would be the the golden opportunity to put some away in a JISA or similar and give the kids a little booster later in life.
A friend’s daughter went to Euro Disneyland recently; £3k+ for 3 days for 2 adults and 2 kids. For the same amount they could have had multiple holidays I’m sure, or a really nice one for 2 weeks or so.
they could certainly have had a longer holiday, but £3k does not buy you a "really nice" holiday for 4 people for 2 weeks during the school holidays. The absolutely cheapest 2 week holiday with dinner included on the thomas cook website for 4 people, for 2 weeks during august is currently £3200, and I would imagine, given that its a 3* hotel in spain rated on tripadvisor as 3/5, its not something you'd count as "really nice"
Even allowing for chucking a load at a mortgage or some immediate necessary expenditure or something, that would be the the golden opportunity to put some away in a JISA or similar and give the kids a little booster later in life.
Yeah, flip side though is that the family had a holiday of a lifetime whilst the kids were young and no worries about paying for it, can see both sides of it, i've not had a foreign holiday since i was 12, so it's madness to me though 😂
Is a Disney holiday the new smashed avacado on toast?
they could certainly have had a longer holiday, but £3k does not buy you a “really nice” holiday for 4 people for 2 weeks during the school holidays.
I'm sure it does if you shop around. We know plenty of families who seem to achieve this, and for even less. Air BnB, self catering and you could have quite a bit left over. And I'm sure you could spend a lot more than £3k for 3 days if you really wanted. But the point was they effectively spent money they couldn't afford, and are now scratching around to pay their own bills. The choices they made are now impacting on their daily lives, and they don't seem to understand that they are solely responsible for the position they are now in.
Depends on what a "really nice holiday" is to you. A colleague at work said a holiday for him was an opportunity to upgrade his lifestyle. For me it's about doing things most of which cost very little once you have travelled.
And there we are again with that sense of entitlement.
Indeed.
It depends what you want from a holiday. Certainly you can have a holiday in Europe for a family of 4-5 for less than 3k.
Basic cottage on the edge of the alps ~1k for 2 weeks
Petrol + tolls + channel ~1k
Food 3-400.
Take bikes etc on the car, a bit of walking, cycling, sitting by lakes, eating too much cheese. Sure it's not for everyone but Disneyland is my idea of hell.
Most people's holidays are my idea of hell but then I'm sure my holidays are most people's idea of hell. However holidays are included in most everybody's idea of a high quality of life.
People expect great things of their holidays as I'm sure anyone else who's worked in the holiday business will confirm. But most people's holidays take them far enough out of their comfort zone to raise stress levels and they'll either work hard painting over the imperfections such as malaria, disentry, roaches,swimming in sewage, sunburn, noisy drunks, German towels, rip-off attractions, jet lag, road rage, cancelled trains, non-stop rain, queues(and up-gradeing scumbags), sleeplessness, lack of sex, hangovers, bike/ski/car crashes, foreign hospitals... and convince themselves the week in hell wad great, or spend their time moaning and making life hell for everyone they encounter because things aren't as perfect as they imagined they'd be.
But one just has to have something to tell neighbours, workmates, clubmates, Facebook, Insta', the hairdresser. It's a comparison thing that is part of the feel good that makes up quality of life as perceived in our modern world.
After experiences working in tourism I figured living somewhere nice all the time beats even the most exotic holiday. I go on holiday expecting it be hassle and suffering with a few moments of satisfaction, and being very pleased to get home in one piece hopefully finding the doors and windows intact and taking precautions to kill unwanted passengers in my bag that might contaminate the house.
I dunno, me and the Mrs prefer a holiday where someone else cooks our food, pours our drinks and cleans our apartment whilst we can laze by the pool between trips and are happy to pay for the priveledge whilst we can afford it, but don’t expect to be entitled to it forever. I’ve yet to experience any of the issues Edukator lists.
Well apart from the hangover.
You just need a well researched and/or recommended destination that meets your criteria. YMMV.
All of those are real experiences from friends, relatives, workmates, customers, club mates... . I missed out fell off a mountain and died, had a heart attack on the flight to a Majorca training camp, broke several vertebre hang gliding, robbed twice on the same weekend in Barcelona, broken ribs falling over in a bus, arrested and held in Spain for carrying a pocket knike, permantly broken ankle cycle touring. I will admit my friends and aquaitances are more adventurous and less risk averse than most but given that holidays represent less than 10% of most people's time the propensity to **** up is clearly much higher on holiday. There again you could go on a world cruise, the couple doing that are currently at zero mishaps.
A holiday is ultimately a luxury, so nobody is entitled to one. A 'holiday' for me as a kid might have been visiting relatives in Birmingham for a couple of days. I did get to go to Bangladesh when I was about ten though, and that was probably more meaningful to me than any other holiday I've had since. I doubt Edukator would have liked it; the cockroaches were as big as Matchbox cars. And they flew.
I find cockroaches pretty harmless but don't like the smell so have traps because whilst not of the flying matchbox variety they're common around here.
Bed bugs on the other hand I detest so bought a freezer I plug in after holidays to decontaminate everything.
Birmingham for a holiday. For someone born in the old red brick QE that brings a smile. 🙂
A luxury or a necessity? Each year we are reminded that about 3 million French kids don't get to go on holiday and that quite apart from missing out on the fun not having a holiday is stigmatising and a social/educational handicap.
The pressure to take their kids on holiday inevitably impacts other aspects of the quality of life equation also known as kippers 'n' curtins where I was dragged up. 😋
It depends what you want from a holiday. Certainly you can have a holiday in Europe for a family of 4-5 for less than 3k.Basic cottage on the edge of the alps ~1k for 2 weeks
Petrol + tolls + channel ~1k
Food 3-400.Take bikes etc on the car, a bit of walking, cycling, sitting by lakes, eating too much cheese. Sure it’s not for everyone but Disneyland is my idea of hell.
you definitely can, but most people wouldn't call the cheapest cottage thats a drive from somewhere decent and <£2/meal/person on food "nice". I've done a lot of trips like that, and had a grand old time, I was simply pointing out that holidays are expensive, and whilst £3k for a long weekend for a family seems excessive, its not the once-in-a-lifetime trip budget that some were suggesting
There’s a lot going on in this thread 😂
That family that came into £50k and spent some of it going to Disneyland. That seems…ok? As someone with a young family, I’d probably stick say 50% into a high interest savings account or pension, bump up my rainy day fund, 30% on home improvements and then ideally I’d have 10% to spend on something fun for the family.
In fact, having a family does change the way you think about money once you start to earn more than you need to survive, and that understanding seems missing from some of the more frugal mindsets above.
In my mind, as much as I need to think about the future and plan ahead, having a daughter that is rapidly growing up means we have a window of 5-7 years where she is robust and interesting enough to take abroad, and also young enough to want to hang out with us and have fun (If you have >1 kid I assume that window of opportunity is even smaller). For us, we’re choosing to spend more on fun holidays now, which perhaps could go into retirement, or fixing up my car or buying new windows for the house. And by heck my frugal past self who could go back packing for £5 a day would be baffled by some of the holidays we have. We don’t travel in summer hols because it’s too expensive and hot, but try pricing up a cheap skiing holiday in feb half term, and a cheap but nice trip somewhere European and warm in October half term and have change from £5k.
And yes, that is a luxury and a privilege but that is kind of supposed to be the point in having a career. I could choose to save it all but I cant spend it when I’m dead. I could cut down on my hours but I’d still be working, just less able to travel. I could travel less but showing my daughter the world is one of the most important of the least important things we do.
As you lot are smothered in smugness and satisfaction can I have your money, please?
Srzly tho we’re in a right two and eight at the minute as despite earning comfortably in to six figure between us we’ve sunk everything in to a business converting part of the house into an annexe/holiday letthat will eventually negate the need for either of us to work full time and will pay our mortgage, meaning we’ll have a substantial retirement pot when we downsize. Sounds great huh? HOWEVER it’s proven much more expensive and taken way longer than we planned and so we’re currently scraping by pay packet to pay packet, We’re ’ALMOST there but can tell you it’s been bastard hard and the kids have done without holidays etc (blagged a few freebies and four nights in a static caravan but nothing remotely fancy). I grew up skint, was skint as a student and most of my adult life too but watch the kids go without despite earning well and watching that money fly out of the door every month and having to watch the pennies in Aldi is tiring. Err what’s my point? You need money, not loads but enough and not having quite enough makes life really shit really quick
i know, worlds smallest violin etc
As you lot are smothered in
smugnesssuncream andsatisfactionall inclusive beer can I have your money, please?
FTFY. 😉
<quote> I think people need to get some perspective on things; if you can afford such, it means you are lucky, not because you’ve worked harder than others, or ‘deserve’ it more. Just lucky. Enjoy that privilege, but be mindful that it is just that.</quote>
I mean, we’re on a mountain bike forum talking about the choice to either work less or earn more so I thought that was already all obvious that this was all first world problems 🤷
@brownperson I’m sure you mean well. Read my post again properly, I never said I worked harder than anyone or deserve anything due to my job (that would be weird!).
I am lucky (there you go!) to have the career I have and don’t intend to dress it up in pretending that I worked hard for it (compared to most of the global or even uk working population). From reading your posts, your background doesn’t sound much different to mine in terms of perspective, upbringing, part of the world we’re from etc. my background means that makes it even more special to me that I can provide for my family. You aren’t going to be able to make me feel guilty about that, and hopefully most people on here have similar perspective even if they aren’t explicit about it in every post.
Funny how skiing gets picked out/on as non ecological and luxury. When we started skiing here we were poor so cycled up to a local X-C resort, bivvied in the snow and rented X-C skis. Or you can fly to the US, hire a 4x4 and go heliskiing whilst overnighting in a typical US thermal sieve.
These days I tend to back country ski reaching the hills in an EV or by bus, bus this time.
About 8 million people ski in France each year, a relative luxury. Pound for pound I think you'll get a bigger carbon footprint from a luxury Summer hoiday. Yes a mass of second homes up a mountain is madness, but so too are load of beach huts on a tropical island people fly a third of the way around the world to. Try a Singapore Bali and Asia thread and compare with the Ski and Snowboard thread.
It's all unsustainable and greenhousing the planet whatever you do in the modern world and generally the more income people have the more they pollute despite having more money making it possible to reduce rather than increase their carbon footprint. You can do a really low carbon ski holidays by train but it'll probably cost more than flying to Geneva, getting a minibus trasfer to a thermal sieve and getting chair lifts up the hill.
I've spent quite a lot of my surplus income reducing my carbon footprint, but I'm only one eight billionth of the problem and it all seems a bit futile compared with Putin's efforts.
I think people need to get some perspective on things; if you can afford such, it means you are lucky, not because you’ve worked harder than others, or ‘deserve’ it more. Just lucky.
I don't think that's a reasonable assertion.
I don't disagree that luck plays a major part, but working certainly counts too. I'd not be able to afford the lifestyle I have without having made efforts towards it. Sure, that's been easier for me than it would have been for people in other circumstances - but it's not exactly been handed to me.
It's kinda strange to keep saying how you're so much more financially responsible than your neighbours, and then to say how everything is just down to luck.
Do agree with Aidy on this. I work as a director of a U.S. investment bank. It’s hard work, long hours and at times significant levels of stress.
This is the job I have worked towards since I was 13.
There is no doubt that luck has played a part, but I certainly don’t attribute my job and compensation package with just luck.
I also know I haven’t worked any harder than others. I have been presented with opportunities and I have taken them. Is it luck that I was presented with opportunities? I put myself in a position where those opportunities would come my way.
I knew full well that I’m not a practical person, so even while at school I realised my career would need to be office based, I was good with technology at school so made the decision to study towards a technology related job.
That being said, there are a large amount of negatives regarding my role. I say to my partner all the time that I would swap my life out for that of a bin man or a taxi driver without a second thought.
I’m at the position where I have hit my ceiling, I will never be in a C role, so this is where I will stay until I’m sent out to pasture. I report directly to the CIO, we have a good relationship but he expects constant results. There is no downtime. On holiday last month, my laptop came with me and I had meetings to attend most days. I work most weekends, normally a Sunday evening just to catch up on my emails and prepare for the Monday.
Financially, it’s nice to have no stresses. But I honestly don’t think it makes up for the stress and the constant pressure. My work, or more my desire for me to succeed at work definitely attributed to my failed marriage. I’ve tried to learn from it, but I’m very career driven (or was). I do accept it was the wrong mentality. I have rationalised it to my upbringing. I’m from a Liverpool council estate. Dad was a HGV driver, mum was a care home cleaner. My dad was an agency driver and could go for periods of time without work. Money was very tight. I always wanted to ensure that when I had my own family that we would have a comfortable financial lifestyle. That side of it I achieved, just didn’t do a great job of balancing the work / family side of life.
@woodster thank you for being so open, speaking for myself you and I have many parallels, especially the past / present family financial issues. I’m a step down the ladder from you and trying to decide whether the step back up (I was there in 22/23) and your post is perhaps a very good indicator of why I shouldn’t.
Having absorbed a slightly ego bashing demotivating demotion I’ve just closed a sales deal that’ll pay for the 2025 car insurance, house insurance, a family length and a short weekend holiday - assuming I stay employed at the same level of salary and don’t need it for other priorities - therefore would consider myself very grateful and perhaps stupid to add any more stress or challenge to my life. You definitely provided an insightful context.
I believe it is all down to luck. Luck that you have the motivation, luck that you have the intelligent, luck that you may be the right colour, sex etc,. It is really privilege more than luck though.
Another person could have put just as much effort into something but you are luckier in some way.
I guess it is luck:-
1. I was lucky enough to be born to parents who cared and nurtured me.
2. I was lucky to have seen life in an inner city area and had the desire to get away from it.
3. I was lucky enough to have been working for companies who have seen my desire to succeed in business and who have directed me along a career path.
4. I was lucky enough to have been born a white, heterosexual male in a time where this helped. (I don’t dispute this for one moment)
But then it is up to the individual to make the most of their luck, should they want to. Not everyone will want to or will be in a position to recognise the opportunities.
I see a lot of homeless people, I travel quite a lot with both work and socially. I always give cash, food, tea when I can. I pay monthly into my local homeless charity. I fully accept it is pure luck that I am not in their position. Luck to have been born to my parents and lucky that my parents guided me as they did.
But for me, while it was lucky in a financial sense, my drive and determination is also massively detrimental to me. While I will live a comfortable retirement, I won’t live it with people who have mattered to me.
@kryton57 I do see the parallels, some of your posts could have been written by me….i also used to be coached as a racer (but a roadie). I took it way too seriously, but part of my mentality was to be the best at X as I could, and I missed being the best “me” I could be. I was never too worried about beating everyone else, it was only about being the best racer I could be. But balancing that with my career, I missed the obvious that was happening in front of me.
It’s a tricky balance. Some people are lucky enough to get it right, others tip too far one way or the other.
(I hope I don’t sound morose! I’m actually a happy person and accepting of my mistakes, life is still good for me, it just could have been better!!)
I think there is a randomness to luck and oportunity that many people, especially those who suceed don't fully apreciate. Getting support and an arm round the shoulder at the right time, or a kick up the erar at the right time. Parents who nuture and teachers who inspire, but also know how to advise you to take the steps to suceed that are right for you.
There have been several research papers that show luck and oportunity are more important than hard work in acheiving sucsess, that doesn't mean that sucsessful people are lazy just that working hard doesn't contibute as much to their sucsess as they often beleive.
And of course their is survivor bias in those who get to tell the tales of how their hard work bred their sucsess. For some reason socioty tends look down on those who dsay they work hard without climbing the ladder of sucess, call them whiners and don't believe them.
I passed an interview process 30 years ago that got me a great apprenticeship and where i am today, there were over 50 vying for each position, and that was after the CV and initial interview cut down, i tend to think me passing was probably chance rather than luck, but either could have been. I'd definitely say if i hadn't got that job i'd have had a tougher life.
In my game climbing the ladder can be a game, some play it and others don't, seen many climb up by scanning promotions in jobs that will get minimal applicants, then do their 2 years and sidestep, z pathing is what they call it, others who are better and should be higher up try and get promoted but struggle with the interview or level of competition, it's never nice to see.
Another person could have put just as much effort into something but you are luckier in some way.
I’ve been the other side of this. Started my current (internal account manager/sales support) job with another person, we both got assigned account managers, similar targets, so similar OTE of about £35k.
After 6 months my colleagues account manager became unexpectedly pregnant, so colleague stepped up to manage her accounts whilst on mat leave, and with that a huge increase in salary/commission. New mum is now back from maternity for 6 months before going on it again, as she loves being a Mum, and can afford a year off, so colleague gets another year of enormous (7-8x normal) salary. They’ve had to work incredibly hard to earn the money, but the opportunity came their way via blind luck.
There have been several research papers that show luck and oportunity are more important than hard work in acheiving sucsess, that doesn’t mean that sucsessful people are lazy just that working hard doesn’t contibute as much to their sucsess as they often beleive.
100% this!
Hard work def helps you succeed but you need a huge dollop of luck in there too.
From our very beginnings of who we are born to (what inherited traits we get, what environment we are born into) we have a huge amount of luck that sets us up for an easier life or not.
I consider myself very lucky. Healthy, relatively clever, born into a good home environment. Had high level of support to push me on my way through life. Presented with opportunities (educationally and life enrichment). For sure I've worked hard at education and hard during the world of work, but there has also been a lot of luck in my career of being right place right time. Some of the luck was created (i.e. cultivated via relationships and positioning, being bold etc) but lets not kid ourselves that I am a better or harder working than many other people.
Hard work def helps you succeed but you need a huge dollop of luck in there too.
I'd argue that you need both. Luck won't do you much good unless you're willing to put in the work to capitalise upon it (unless you follow the argument that you're lucky to be someone that's inclined to do the work...).
With the melancholy way I'm reading this thread (it may be Setraline assisted) I just had reason to listen to Tracey Chapmans recent duet of Fast Car, which feels poignant...
I think a lot of it comes down to your personality and mentality. I know that if was to miraculously start making twice as much as I do right now my first thought be, awesome I can work half as many hours.
Thanks for sharing that Kryton. I love that song it takes me back to my childhood as my mum played that album a lot and wow her voice hasn't aged and she looks amazing still!
There's hard determined work, there's pure luck, but the bit that seems to be missing is simply not being a d1ck - is that a part of making your own luck?
People saying they've just been 'lucky' probably aren't giving themselves enough credit for showing humanity, compassion, caring and many of the other significant traits that might be turning luck their way.
That’s a really flawed argument. Some of the most wealthy people appear to be utterly despicable human beings. By that logic, being the opposite of what you describe also gets you to be successful.
I work closely with the local third sector and charities as part of my job. The people that run them all have one thing in common. None of them are rich or successful if measured by the metrics outlined in this thread.
Hard graft doesn’t go hand in hand with success. I know some right shiftless bastards in well paid roles and people working long shifts doing back breaking work for little reward.
I've been interested in neurodiveristy for the past year, what it is, what it means to me. One of the things I've realized is simply that I fail to see opportunity, or if I do see it, it's just a glimpse of it flashing by. There's a report released today the buckland review of autism employment. A quick scan of the easy-read version, two things jumped out, autistic people find job interviews horrendous (yes most definitely), and they're less likely to have a job after university (yes, felt utterly bewildered/lost). I then spent years doing menial labour agency work feeling like a mindless flesh+bone robot. Wasn't until I was nearly 40 that I gained a better job, and that was entirely due to friend of my OH's family (I hardly even said much in the interview, they spoke for me convincing their boss to take me on).
I bought a new book to read recently: Empire of Normality Below is a video where the author discusses some of the ideas, starting with eugenics and how it's (not only the nazis exterminating people) still present in society now
If your comment was in response to mine funkmaster, then to clarify,
I didn't mean to imply any link between being 'good' and wealth and agree bastards often seem to 'win',
I'm just suggesting the point that 'luck' is probably more nuanced than being solely right place/right time.
A quick scan of the easy-read version, two things jumped out, autistic people find job interviews horrendous
Yes I did. Not much chance of getting a job when you can't make eye contact with the interviewer and answer questions too honestly and too succinctly.
But here's the lucky part, I interviewed for an IT job and a key part of it was an IQ test and I have a very high IQ. I am lucky to have a high IQ and I am lucky that the IQ test formed a big part of the decision to give me the job.
Wasn't the best job in the world but was a start. Then turns out I am pretty good at IT stuff, especially data, looking at things very objectively (that lucky autism again!), and coming up with simple solutions to most things.
I would never say I have worked hard during my almost 40 years of work but have done very well out of it.
How is the position I am in not total luck?
Fascinating thread. I believe luck does play some part in success it has to. I got an opening into my role through a completely unrelated degree. I believe that this opened the door, without the degree it would not have opened.
WRT luck, one of the things that I see as a GP is how the cycle of deprivation and poverty passes down from generation to generation in the most deprived families.
In order to work hard, you have to be lucky enough to have been in an environment that is ordered enough for you to come into contact with some form of role model to convince you of the benefits of hard work.
Some of these kids don’t stand a chance.
If hard work is the secret, how come social mobility in this country is so low?
How is the position I am in not total luck?
Luck with a high IQ might have got you there initially, but that alone wouldn't keep you there.
To luck, hard work, personality, IQ, parents, teachers, aquaintances,character I'll add three: face, voice and body language. In the UK I did well in things where other people's judgement of me didn't matter - if you set the fastest time you win. However, I never felt my face, accent, manner or presence fitted. My face didn't fit.
I crossed the channel and paradoxically felt my face fitted. I felt trust where I
was used to mistrust , complicity rather than being marginalised, accepted for what I was rather than judged. People valued my perceptiveness and talents rather than being threated by them.
I've thrived. If I'm stopped by the gendarmes I blow in the bag, make a few light hearted quips and I'm on my way. My face fits. When I land in the Uk I fully expect customs to pull me out the queue and grill me for the time it takes to fully dismantle the Brompton and check inside the tent poles.
So if you want to do well make sure your face fits. If you're a black woman don't try to follow in Woodster's footsteps and prefer London over Belfast.
You might as well say that everything is predestined and free will is an illusion
Free will is an illusion.
Whether you fall on the nature or nurture side of the argument, you chose neither. You weren't shown a range of options prior to birth and given time to carefully assess the best people/place to make your start in life before choosing which vagina to be squeezed head first through (the fact that is how we come into the world should be a big clue that we shouldn't be taking ourselves too seriously).
Ultimately, at any moment in time, we are the solution to an equation that has a near infinite number of variables, whether they be your genetics or your environment.
Every decision you make, every amount of 'effort' you put into something, is the result of a mix of your genetics and your past experiences and each of your past experiences was a mix of your genetics and past experiences, etc...
And you might think, 'I have free will, next time I'll do the opposite of what I planned to do just to prove BruceWee wrong.' Well, unfortunately, this post is now part of your past experiences. Sorry, you can't escape.
So yes, if you are successful or unsuccessful it is 100% luck. You didn't 'choose' to work hard. Your genetics and your experiences chose for you.
Embrace it. Enjoy it. Don't congratulate yourself too much. Don't beat yourself up too much. And always remember you are not a unique and special snowflake. You're just another instantaneous solution to an equation.
Luck with a high IQ might have got you there initially, but that alone wouldn’t keep you there.
As I said, what kept me there and allowed me to progress was my objectivity and natural ability in IT related things (there are quite a few autistic people in IT!) which again is not down to anything I have done so I count that as luck that I have that natural ability and luck that I got into a job that uses it.
Conversely I could have been less lucky and got given a few of the crappier jobs I went for and who knows where I would be now?
Disappointed in the lack of ‘ergo’ and ‘Vis-a-Vis’ in Bruce’s post.
Your reference was one of the input variables in my instantaneous solution but growing up in Glasgow meant I had multiple other input variables that led to the exclusion of excess ****iness.
Anyway, on a slightly more practical note, has anyone done reduced hours but only to get extra holidays?
What I'm thinking about is asking my employer to let me take unpaid leave so that I can take time off whenever the kids are on holiday. Up until now we've kind of shuffled things around so that they are taken care of but the kids' experiences are kind of secondary to making sure they aren't completely abandoned while keeping working. Now I really want to take time off whenever they are off and focus on them.
If you’re a black woman don’t try to follow in Woodster’s footsteps and prefer London over Belfast.
My wife will tell you without filter and very directly, how dare you tell her what she can and cannot do on basis of her gender or colour of her skin.
I believe I understand what you meant but dont excuse the fact that you might want to rewrite your sentence in respect of today’s societial values and not those of the 1970’s.
It's a remark deploring the level of prejudice, racism and sexism in society, Kryton, I'm disappointed you didn't read it that way. Check out the proportion of black female directors in financial services. Check out government reports on discimination against ethnic minorities in NI. People of any background can in theory and according law do anything they choose. The reality in our sexist, prejudiced racist world is exclusion, glass ceilings, nepotism... that need to be considered when choosing where to live and what to do achieve the best quality of life for oneself.
That's why I am where I am and did what I did. It strikes me you've done the same the thing, note where I said would be the better place. 😋
I will bet money (ho ho) that offered a choice that meant you could work less but retain the same level of income, 99.9% of folks would bite your hand off. I think there's a level of cash income that buys...if not happiness, then security? contentment? safety? and those impacts on your ego, self worth, health outcomes, mental-health, anxiety...are probably measurable.
If the offer was less work and grinding poverty, rather than less time at work, perhaps an inheritance and/or slightly reduced income and a simpler lifestyle , this thread would have a different vibe.
, this thread would have a different vibe.
There is some middle ground between 'grinding poverty' and 'same level of income'.
I don't think anyone is suggesting there is no relationship between money and quality of life, just that past a certain point it has little effect. If you've reached that point it's fairly self evident, if you haven't I can see that it might not be something obvious as you have more burning money related issues to deal with....