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So i got a motorhome in lockdown - was bought on a whim from a relative for a good (ish) deal. My wifes idea, i objected stongly but its turned out to be just about the best thing i ever bought.
Anyway long story short, because i know nothing about motorhomes i've f****d the leisure batteries.
Basically i've run them flat on every trip and not charged them inbetween. who knew 🙂 doh.
Now they run the internal lights for about 20 mins on a full charge
It has a pair of diamond Leisure 110ah batteries that look pretty cheap to me.
Initial research tells me i probably want AGMs but i think that because the van is 2011 the charger won't give the additional voltage required (or the special cycle) for AGM
I'd like to buy a decent battery but all the brands i *know* don't seem to do that size - would going up in Ah be ok? ie bosch do a 120Ah.
Seen some Banner ones that get some good reviews but they are not sealed (??) so need topping up - possibly?
Also the batteries are inside under the front bench seat, the cushion lifts up and theres a wooden lid but they are not in a box or anything like that. They don't appear to be vented? is this correct - from what i gather i should have a tube to the outside?
Anyone got any recommendations??
Thanks in advance.
Does the split charger work? I assume there is one? A new leisure battery shouldn’t run flat as it’s effectively charged from the alternator every time you drive it. Unless you did what I did and accidentally turn off the charger and let the battery die.
The leisure batteries should also charge when your on hook up if set up correctly and working.
I suspect the batteries are over 10 years old and just past their best.
Just replace them with newer ones
There is a split charger. These are the original batteries that came in the van - they weren't great to start with but i've not driven it since oct and the batteries were flat when i left it.
I also let my 3 year old have a pee in the toilet and forgot to empty it.
I've a lot to learn about motorhome ownership 🙂
Yep, battery sounds like it’s gone. You should be getting days worth of power for lights/fridge etc, even off grid.
I have a 100w solar panel on the roof with a smart charge controller, in winter I take the battery out and store it indoors charging it occasionally. I tested the voltage drop across the battery clamps with the battery out and there was enough of a drop to flatten the battery in a few weeks, turns out that turning off the main habitation switch doesn't turn everything off and the Aux/Vehicle selector needs to be set in an in-between position.
Leisure batteries are pretty crap generally. If it's all that you can fit in the space, get a voltage monitor so you can easily see the state of charge, and don't let it go below 50%.
However, if you can fit them in the space, golf cart batteries are very good. I have Trojan T105's, you need two in series as they are 6v each. They are deep cycle with a sump to accommodate debris from the plates without shorting out and can discharge safely to 20%.
2x 12v 110ahr leisure equalling 12v 220ahr in parallel from full to 50% is 110 useable amps.
2x 6v 225ahr golf cart batteries equalling 12v 225ahr in series from full to 20% is 180 useable amps.
Mine are 6 years old now, trickle charged from 200w solar. I struggled to get 2 years from 2x 85ahr leisure's in my last van.
You probably don't want AGM or the Banner batteries. (AGM don't seem to live up to the promises.) Ignore any NCC ratings - it was a big con.
I was about to suggest the Varta LFD90, but it appears that they have been discontinued.
Have a read of this:
http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/battery-technology.php
(We have Trojan 105s in our van, but they probably won't fit where your batteries are, and are best kept in a vented, acid-proof container.)
The best investment you can make is in a solar panel (anything >80W is OK, but >150W is better) and a decent MPPT controller - it will keep leisure batteries topped up and happy.
No emotive with leisure batteries, but I've used multiple AGM batteries in cars that have been left for long periods. I say multiple as one deep discharge cycle seems to kill them dead, and I've accidentally done that a few times. Expensive mistakes
I leave our motorhome plugged into a socket in the garage over the winter. Keeps the batts topped up so that they are ready for use and don’t deteriorate. I’ve got retractable socket extension I bolted to the wall. Works a treat. Great for pressure washer etc as well.
I've been buggering about with 12V stuff at home to try and move the fun stuff (xbox 360, computer display, phone & tablet charging) off mains to try and save a few pence per day. We have a 12V 110V leisure battery from our car and I got a 1000W (nominal, probably nowhere near) solar panel to keep the battery topped up which seems to be doing the job ok.
I'm liking the golf cart battery idea though 😎
If I leave my caravan for more than a few weeks, the battery dies - charges when driving or hooked up. I need to suss out why the solar panel isn't keeping it charged
Our leisure battery goes flat every winter and is fine. I suspect they are just old and need replacing. We bought what we could get as we found out it wasn’t right when a drive to the Lake District didn’t add any charge to it. Lithium ones are the way forward but you will need deeper pockets
Great timing for this post!
I'm looking at getting one installed under the driver's seat in my T5 as part of a new voltage sensor split charge relay system. It'll be used for running the ceiling spotlights, charging phones and other small devices etc. Been quoted £400 all-in for the job which features a 95ah deep cycle lead acid battery. I'm very new to this but lead acid seems like very old tech to me. Will it be up to the job?
I’m very new to this but lead acid seems like very old tech to me. Will it be up to the job?
Absolutely.
this, they are the way forward though and don't require any thought to use, you can run them flat if you like! Plus smaller, lighter etc. I got one of those portable all-in-one Lithium units (battery plus charging stuff & inverter, etc) for my works van, expensive option but being a business purchase took the sting out if it! It's really good, and not going to lie, very handy when I take the van biking or camping 😃Lithium ones are the way forward but you will need deeper pockets
Basic split charges do not charge very well, fine for your vehicle battery top up but not for recharge from empty. You need to charge properly every couple of months, or fit solar with a decent charger.
lead acid seems like very old tech
You can get lower priced lion batteries now but, obviously not for that quote price (triple it). I've been thinking of upgrading. You can get much more capacity in the same volume space being the main reason. But there is the nagging doubt of catastrophic failure which is putting me off
Bloody nightmare!
If it wasn't for the fact I want to run the spotlights, I'd be tempted not to bother and get a couple of decent powerbanks for charging the devices 🙂
Have a look what Tayna batteries have that will fit. Very helpful on phone if you need them. I've just fitted a Yuasa EFB in my caravan, impressed so far, but only been a few months. I've also got a big solar panel.
You can get lower priced lion batteries now
Just as a point of order: the 'lithium' leisure batteries are (usually) LiFePO4 (Lithium iron phosphate), not Li-ion (Lithium ion) or Li-po (Lithium polymer). LiFePO4 aren't as 'explodey' as the others.
I've seen several reports on other forums of 'cheap' lithium (LiFePO4) batteries not having the claimed capacity / having poorly matched cells. Caveat emptor.
Great timing for this post!I’m looking at getting one installed under the driver’s seat in my T5 as part of a new voltage sensor split charge relay system. It’ll be used for running the ceiling spotlights, charging phones and other small devices etc. Been quoted £400 all-in for the job which features a 95ah deep cycle lead acid battery. I’m very new to this but lead acid seems like very old tech to me. Will it be up to the job?
Sounds like a dear do, you can do the job yourself (if you can be arsed) for under £200, a 12V 110Ah battery is only £80 or so and a split-charge relay is £70 or so.
Lead acid - in general - are spectacularly bad at dealing with full discharge.
Solar panel trickle charger for a fit and forget.
Or regular mains power trickle charger.
You definitely need a vented compartment.
they are the way forward though and don’t require any thought to use, you can run them flat if you like!
No, you can't, unless you want a very short service life.
Running flat enhances the cell degradation in such a way as to make spontaneous combustion of the cell more likely.
So no, don't do that.
Just as a point of order: the ‘lithium’ leisure batteries are (usually) LiFePO4 (Lithium iron phosphate), not Li-ion (Lithium ion) or Li-po (Lithium polymer). LiFePO4 aren’t as ‘explodey’ as the others.
As a point of order, Li-ion is an encompassing term for all lithium batteries. Lithium polymer refers to the internal cell construction and could involve a number of different chemistries. LiFePO4 are indeed what usually goes into laptop (or caravan) type applications, low peak current discharge high cycle count.
Just as a point of order: the ‘lithium’ leisure batteries are (usually) LiFePO4 (Lithium iron phosphate), not Li-ion (Lithium ion) or Li-po (Lithium polymer). LiFePO4 aren’t as ‘explodey’ as the others.
That is interesting to know
Sounds like a dear do, you can do the job yourself (if you can be arsed) for under £200, a 12V 110Ah battery is only £80 or so and a split-charge relay is £70 or so.
It is easy, I know nothing at all about vehicle electrics and I did it. Used a T5 specific kit with all the cables labelled, ended, and cut to the right length, plus knowledge of the all important route to get from the engine to the seat. But I would not call that quote unreasonable, its a still few hours of time, and people need to make money.
I guess 🤣 I've never done it, although I assume that the battery management takes care of this, and when it says 0 there's actually a few % left or whatever, as the Manual doesn't mention don't fully drain the battery or it'll catch fire!!Running flat enhances the cell degradation in such a way as to make spontaneous combustion of the cell more likely.
Sounds like a dear do, you can do the job yourself (if you can be arsed) for under £200, a 12V 110Ah battery is only £80 or so and a split-charge relay is £70 or so.
I'm not confident with anything electrical.
I know I could do it cheaper but there'll be a lot of ****ing about, faff etc. I take it somewhere that knows what they're doing, I get guarantees etc if any issues. I'm away in Scotland end of this month for a camping trip and have limited time to do it anyway. I had a figure in my head of @£400 so it fits with that.
It won't catch fire the first time you go to zero. You just increase your chances. Etc.
Maybe the battery management takes care of it. Maybe.
Ha i've googled this topic so much i've arrived this page in the search results!
First check the split charge relay is working to charge on the move.
Next, find a solution to plug in to the mains to charge off hook-up. This should be your default position when the van is "at home" or wherever you store it, and you should plug in for a good few days after you return from every trip.
Then measure the battery compartment/space carefully. Buy the largest capacity lead acid batteries that will fit. They will likely be 110/120ah. Your usable power is half of this total. If you fit 2x 120ah = 240ah total, you usable power is always HALF the total. If fitting multiple batteries, make sure they are the same size and capacity and technology.
If you want, look into fitting a solar panel.
I think it's worth considering something like this or an evo flow river
https://www.kiravans.co.uk/products/totalpower-500-portable-inverter-litium-ion-battery
Bloody nightmare!
If it wasn’t for the fact I want to run the spotlights, I’d be tempted not to bother and get a couple of decent powerbanks for charging the devices
I have no training but fitted one under the seat in my T6 along with a Ctek 250SE charger. It powers fridge, LED lights, USB, Diesel heater, and a 1500W inverter and has a 240v hookup. Point being its not overly difficult as long as you are carful, use the correct cabling and build in fuses and breakers etc. It powers everything for up to a couple of days or so if we dont drive. When on site for longer we have a hook up which normally costs an extra £ or so per night and I use another Ctek charger to keep everything charged (MX10 from memory). Then we can use a fan heater in the awning plus kettle and toaster.
I used mainly the Interweb and Youtube happy to help if I can.
I’ve heard you shouldn’t use a lead acid battery inside unless it’s vented to the outside. Is this true, and should the bods who did the quote have known this?
Lead acid batteries can & do produce hydrogen. My neighbour incinerated his house by finding this out the hard way. SLA (Sealed lead acid) apparently do not vent anything as any produced gas is recombined inside the battery.
Conventional lead acid should not be allowed to vent off into an interior space due to the fire risk. Some come equipped with a small bore tube to lead any produced gas outside.
They probably state on the label something like "Use in a well ventilated area"
I’ve heard you shouldn’t use a lead acid battery inside unless it’s vented to the outside. Is this true, and should the bods who did the quote have known this?
To a certain extent, "it depends"...
Good, old fashioned lead-acid batteries emit gasses when they're charged and need to be vented to the outside (and preferably mounted inside a battery box that contains the gasses and vapours emitted). This type of battery will need to be topped up with water periodically.
The better "sealed" / "Maintenance free" batteries have gubbins inside that recombine the gasses into water inside the battery, so nothing is vented to the outside world *in normal operation*. There is always the possibility that they can emit gasses faster than the internal gubbins can cope with if provoked (faulty charger, internal short, etc.). They are usually fitted with a pressure relief valve to vent the gasses in these (rare) circumstances.
There is usually a connection for a small (~6mm) 'vent' tube on these batteries that *should* be taken outside somewhere - it doesn't normally do anything unless the pressure relief valve operates, when it could emit steam and hot acid. IME, it's not uncommon for these to be ignored.
[@Davesport types faster than me.]
I’ve heard you shouldn’t use a lead acid battery inside unless it’s vented to the outside. Is this true, and should the bods who did the quote have known this?
yeah it’s true, but how do you know that they don’t know this?
You just need a small tube through the floor.
@tillydog you both type quicker than me. (Neither off your replies were there until I pressed post 🤷🏻♂️)
I’ve heard you shouldn’t use a lead acid battery inside unless it’s vented to the outside. Is this true, and should the bods who did the quote have known this?
Apparently so. The starter battery in my van is vented outside but not the two 110Ah flooded lead acid ones that are installed under the internal seat!
Its one of the reasons i've gone with gel's for the replacements.
Leisure battery compartments in caravans open to the outside, they aren't in the interior.
We've just replaced our caravan battery. Decided on an AGM one, and Halfords (with a trade card for a little extra discount) worked out cheaper than anywhere else for a Yuasa one. Couldn't get anywhere near the price through trade accounts elsewhere.
Leisure battery compartments in caravans open to the outside, they aren’t in the interior.
mine doesn't
You just need a small tube through the floor.
Don't forget hydrogen is rather light and will escape upward. If using a very small tube you might want one going downward too, to get some flow through the area with the battery.
You just need a small tube through the floor.
Don’t forget hydrogen is rather light and will escape upward. If using a very small tube you might want one going downward too, to get some flow through the area with the battery.
The 'small tube' is connected directly to the vent on the battery, so there is no opportunity for anything to get into the area around the battery in that case (the rest of the battery is sealed).
I went back to the company that quoted £400 on the 95ah lead acid battery install saying I'd read extensively online that they need venting (plus another fitter I spoke to said the same). His reply was 'I understand your concern but the battery is sealed. We have fitted many of these to various other vehicles over the years with no problems' then basically £100 more for a lower 80ah AGM battery. So they don't vent lead acid batteries that are inside the van. 'No problems' - does that just mean lucky? If this is their approach I think I'll look elsewhere...
does that just mean lucky?
Or does it mean what you've read is out of date ?
Or does it mean what you’ve read is out of date ?
Based on another fitter telling me today that they vent through the floor, I'd say probably not.
Many things in camper world are done because reasons*
Can think of more than a couple of cars that come from factory without this venting on batteries fitted in the cab area.
More so that venting through the floor for a gas that's lighter than air....
* No one knows these reasons - see also the "rockwool soaks up water" brigade and the "needs a vapour barrier" brigade.
Timely thread as think need to replace my LB due to lack of care. Planning on fitting a solar panel now.
@rascal this is my T5 under passenger seat installation that I did in 2017. I am sure Terry or someone will spot something and ask why I am not dead yet ha ha!
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Top row; Mains RCD/Fuses. 12v Split charge relay. 12v fuses.
Middle row; Battery (has to be not too high so not to foul seat swivel
Bottom row: 12v battery charger.
The mains hookup is under the bonnet at the back of the engine bay. Pretty standard for T5 owners.
I was very nervous installing it because when I started planning the first google result was a burned out T5 on someones drive on one of the forums that had caught fire the first night back from the convertor. Apparently they had run a battery lead under the battery which had bounced up and down on it causing insulation fail and a short and fire. I was really careful to ensure that all cables were carefully routed with extra protection if needed.
I bought my kit from Martyn at Travelvolts who was super helpful and a legend on the T5/6 forums. A quick google suggests he has retired and his son has taken over.
People criticise the T5 scene tax but one benefit is so many have been converted there are well documented common approaches that have been done by thousands of people.