[Closed] Moral Racing Results Dilemma - would you bother saying anything?

Won't the people who he's teasing not notice that he's pulled a fast one as well?

In which case, let them out him. Anyhoo, how has his result stood if he missed three timing points? I assumed you'd get a DNF if you miss points at which your chip is "sensed" - at least this is what has happened in road races I've done (only running mind, dunno if triathlon timings differ), or was it not that sophisticated an event?

EDIT: Oh hang on...

How about "You give me the P5, and I'll say nothing..." 🙂

Very sophisticated event with live video feed etc etc. Chip points do get missed through kit error and that's usually OK as it can happen but 3 in a row - beginners error level of cheating! I'm not sure how much they care about the validity of the results at the 'cash cow' end of the field (the other end had Emma Pooley racing in her first event back as a triathlete) but the results are still provisional so he might still get DQ'ed.

I could let the other bloke(s) out him, but to be honest I'd like to save him a bit of public embarrassment as he's not a bad lad.

How about "You give me the P5, and I'll say nothing..."

Blackmail - why didn't I think of that! 🙂

Oh, I see. Do you reckon he knows himself that his time is wrong? Surely he does...

Maybe a quiet word. Or a "My god, have you seen your bike splits? Amazing time mate, can't quite believe how you've pulled it off, but by jove, you have! If the times weren't there for everyone to see..."

I'd like to save him a bit of public embarrassment as he's not a bad lad.

Maybe a quiet word. Or a "My god, have you seen your bike splits? Amazing time mate, can't quite believe how you've pulled it off, but by jove, you have! If the times weren't there for everyone to see..."

Don't worry there's this race in France where it's ok to cheat unless you get found out....leave it for now

Its a dangerous drug cheating. Leave him too it. He'll over reach himself. Others will see his current riding/question the disparity.

How come you can see this, but he and his team mates can't or haven't?

Cheats that are right down the field are odd aren't they. Funny when you see someone have a crafty look before popping under the red and white tape.

out him & then realise you are the one that has made the mistake, I always find this is the best way to win friends & influence people

I predict he will retire citing some injury and never show his face again, used to happen in enduros all the time, someone would come in and do something amazing that was suspicious and never be seen again.

When atre the official results published?

How come you can see this, but he and his team mates can't or haven't?

You have to click beyond the headline figures on the race results and look at the interim check points and be prepared to do some sums. I only noticed because I was tracking another friend who was miles (literally) ahead and then suddenly they were much closer. But when someone does the first lap of 90km averaging 23km/h and the 2nd 90km on the same course averaging 45km/h and does not trigger all the interim timing points for the whole lap and beats Emma Pooley (ex Olympic silver medalist and world time trial champ) over that lap by 23mins it is pretty obvious! Maybe they have worked it out and are just very diplomatic! I'll find out on Saturday.

Who gives a shit. Leave him to it.

Who gives a shit. Leave him to it.

You are probably right. I have no urge to 'out him' for the sake of it- apart from anything it's quite funny to watch in a car crash kind of way! Just pondering a quiet word to stop him making a prat of himself.

Maybe they have worked it out and are just very diplomatic!

Or maybe they're readying the Bombers? 😛

I'd square that you are not the only one to figure it. If he is on a bragging-spree then those who are hearing his tale of triumph will get their calculators out too.

I'd let him take his medicine.

[url=

always makes me giggle--you could email your clubmate the link with the message 'Discuss' 🙂

He will get found out, as other people will go through the results and cotton onto this, there are a number of threads on the triathlon forums outing people, maybe an idea to have a word

Chris

I'd be having a quiet word with him personally.

I cheated in a race once - completely by accident.

MTB XC race (years ago) and I was on a very new bike with what, as I was discovering, were RUBBISH tyres. Punctured early on in the second lap, pulled it to one side of the trail and fixed it in a right rush, ballsing it up all over. Finally got it pumped up, wheel back in, looked around and there were riders going past me still so I jumped back on, chased for all I was worth. Finished, packed up, went home thoroughly pissed off.

Next day a mate rang me and he said "OK, how come you finished 9th?"

I was like "WTF, I was off the back, I punctured!"

Turned out that where I'd punctured was an out and back section of the course and I'd dragged the bike right into the middle of it, fixed it and then got disorientated, seen the riders going past and just thought "that's the course". I was in a total rush, very flustered and just completely messed it all up, turned out I'd missed most of the second lap and jumped back into the race right at the front of the field!

So I phoned the organisers and quietly explained it, they pissed themselves laughing. This was in the days before chip timing but they said they wondered why I'd done my first lap in 25 mins, my second in 15 and my third in 25. Was pretty obvious! 😳

It may be that your mate simply didn't realise he took a wrong turn or he could have intentionally cheated. I'd talk to him before outing him all over Facebook. If he denies all knowledge in spite of the evidence against him, then out him as a cheat. 🙂

Won't the people who he's teasing not notice that he's pulled a fast one as well?

This.

Plus start big'ing him for the next one saying 'how well he did in the last one' and watch the pressure mount, start dropping in that you'll be scrutinizing his progress throughout the event etc...

I would be publicly ripping the piss out of one of my mates if they cheated like you think this bloke had

Plus start big'ing him for the next one saying 'how well he did in the last one' and watch the pressure mount, start dropping in that you'll be scrutinizing his progress throughout the event etc...

I Like it - act all unknowing and just gently stir the situation with lots of praise and awe and watch how he handles the pressure of performing at the next race (with his fancy new bike) knowing he'll have to chip 1hr 40 off his true bike time just to stand still.

I'm now stuck between this and blackmail - and to think I was just going to out him. How dull would that have been!

If he did honestly make a mistake (I'd imagine that I wouldn't exactly be thinking straight during the second half of my first ironman either!) then accusing him of cheating is going to make you look like a bit of a dick in my opinion.

I'd have a quiet word with him along the lines of "it looks like you went the wrong way by accident". If he blusters, blushes, denies and gets narky then he knows that he'd cheated and you can then happily slag him off/blackmail him/get the bombers out/piss in his single-strap shoes with a clear conscience.

If he did honestly make a mistake (I'd imagine that I wouldn't exactly be thinking straight during the second half of my first ironman either!) then accusing him of cheating is going to make you look like a bit of a dick in my opinion.

Yes, need to be charitable and look for legit possibilities if only because he's being so brazen about it you would think he'd be keeping his head down if he had knowingly cheated. He had a very slow swim so there might not have been many others around him to follow so he could have unknowingly gone wrong. But it was a closed road course with about 20000 spectators. There is one place a bit into the lap where you could could have turned and rejoined the lap near the end but you would have been going from a closed road course with spectators, flags and banners, through a little town and back onto the course missing out all the iconic climbs that are so renown. Surely you'd notice?

Perhaps people started to congratulate him before he had a chance to come clean and it snowballed from their, and before he knew it he was in so deep he didn't want to come clean.

I'd still out him in some way.

Not a bad bloke who is taking the piss out his mates after cheating? That does not compute frankly.

The hole he has dug is his responsibility not yours, (if you are correct in your assessment).

If you really want to do him a favour have a quiet word in his shell like and then hand him a spade.

"He's not very good"

Not very good ??

So he swam 3.8km... biked what? Just the 120km (rather than the 180km it should be) then finish with the small matter of a marathon.

Yeah he's rubbish 😯 ... doubt all those on he saying out him could do that... cheating or not.

"but gone from very overweight to just a bit overweight, but he's keen."

Don't mess this up for him .... doesn't sound like you are intentional planning to, mind.

Maybe he knows he's cheated and will do another one to prove to himself he can do it.... and lose a shed load more weight in the process.

Anyway ... if you are not cheating, you are not trying

I'd publicly take the piss that how the f did he manage to beat Emma Pooley when he's a chubby bloke ;-)....

Have a quiet word and point out he appears to have beaten Emma Pooley, give him pause for thought. Seems a strange kind of event to deliberately cheat in as its all about personal goals unless you're a podium contender, so he's cheated himself. I don't know him but is it not more likely it was some innocent error, I'd be gutted to realize I had compromised what should have been a great personal achievement- in effect NOT completing my first ironman.

Munqe chick is harsh but she's training for a half iron so seeing red!

You could post up the average speeds for the three disiplines for all club memebers - in a "well done all" sort of way.

If his bike leg really is unfeasonably fast people can draw there own conclusions without making any overt accusations.

Might be worth doing this BEFORE he splashes out on an iron man tattoo 😀

Sign him up for Oprah

"Might be worth doing this BEFORE he splashes out on an iron man tattoo"

Nah ... if he gets an M dot tatt he deserves anything and everything you throw at him

I don't know him but is it not more likely it was some innocent error, I'd be gutted to realize I had compromised what should have been a great personal achievement- in effect NOT completing my first ironman.

You could post up the average speeds for the three disiplines for all club memebers - in a "well done all" sort of way.

Might be worth doing this BEFORE he splashes out on an iron man tattoo

He's talking about it! I could suggest he gets one with a bit missing from one of the legs 🙂

Anonymous email account. Start with "I know what you did last summer" or somesuch. Have some fun with him in a non threatening way.

So he swam 3.8km... biked what? Just the 120km (rather than the 180km it should be) then finish with the small matter of a marathon.
Yeah he's rubbish ... doubt all those on he saying out him could do that... cheating or not.

The time limit's about 18 hours isn't it? You could walk a marathon comfortably in 7. The swim is 2 doing breaststroke. That leaves 9 hours to ride (less than) 112 miles.

Not taking away from the achievement, but it doesn't make him a stunning athlete!

Weird. I'd be all over my split times like a cheap suit, just to see how I'd done on various bits. So I think I'd know if there was something funny about a lap.

Tbh I'd leave it. Like you say he's now got to get a hell of a lot faster just to stand still.

or send him out with the fast guys on a club ride, ie the ones who are going at "his" speed.

Post up his Twitter/Facebook name and let STW take care of it for you 🙂

The time limit's about 18 hours isn't it? You could walk a marathon comfortably in 7. The swim is 2 doing breaststroke. That leaves 9 hours to ride (less than) 112 miles.

Not taking away from the achievement, but it doesn't make him a stunning athlete!

I seriously doubt I could do that back to back, regardless of time - I think it's a real achievement.

Really? I'd not think it that tough if you have a modicum of fitness.

"but it doesn't make him a stunning athlete!"

Not to you, race whippet... but it does compaired to most on here

18 hours straight with a raised heart rate.... most couldn't manage a full on, non-stop hour without a rest to talk about their lastest bike purchase.

I'd probably drown on the first leg for a start 🙂

To put it another way - I'd not feel in any position to judge till I'd actually done it and survived. 100 mile road bike rides don't usually leave me feeling like I'd fancy doing a marathon now! I think finishing it is to be applauded in any circumstance to be honest.

Njee20 ... surely you are now on a wind up?

I thought you knew your stuff... but are you honestly telling me with a "modicum" of fitness an Ironman can be completed?

Cut off was 16hrs - he needed a half decent bike to make the time as his swim and run were slower still.

There is an often proffered adage by triathlon elite that they couldn't do what the slower age groupers do. There is one thing racing for 8 or 9 hours but to have to keep going for the full 16 or 17 is mentally taxing. And continental races are hot - I think it was upper 30's on the run and for most of the bike. And the swim was non wetsuit because of the temperature which for slower swimmers is a distinct disadvantage.

Just post on one of his Facebook posts - 'looks like there was something up with the timing in your second lap - it says here you beat all the pros and averaged 45km/h!'

Simple and doesn't sound bitchy.

I think njee means a fit person who trained for it would be able to finish it well under 18 hours or within the cutoff despite not having targeted training. Fair play to the guy for doing his Pig-ironman, but perhaps being picked up by the broom wagon would have been the wake up call he needed to realise what training really involves?

I know someone who trained for 2 years to do an Ironman with the goal of finishing under 10 hours. There'd be blood if he were ribbed by a gloating plodder.

If IM is not tough enough and you fancy a proper challenge check out the [url= http://www.inferno.ch/?langId=2 ]Inferno Triathlon[/url]

Nice little 3.1km swim
followed by a tiny little 97km Road bike with 2145m of ascent
Followed by a nice short 30km mountain bike with 1180m of ascent
Followed by a 25km fell 'run' with 2175m of ascent

[img] [/img]

You get 14hrs to complete. Last year 14 Brits entered - 2 finished!

I think rhats an achievement just to finish it. Have a quiet word.

Hes hardly a pie eater. He must have put some training in

I have a uni friend who's been talking about doing the Arch to Arc after finding gigathons were a bit too easy for her.

Run to the Channel from Marble Arch, swim across that, then I'll let you guess the mode of transport to Paris 😯

It would be cruel to publicly 'out' him as a cheat

Cruel of him to cheat to beat honest people who've trained better, cruel of him to deceive his friends and family and soak up their adulation.

Absolutely blow the whistle. There's no excuse for doign that, none at all. You say he's not a bad lad - how the hell could he act like that if he isn't?

Full accountability is the only way. He should not be allowed to get away with being such an utter arsehole, imo. If he wasn't crowing about it then I'd maybe not say anything, but honestly.

Rule #42
// A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.

If it’s preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run, it is not called a bike race, it is called duathlon or a triathlon. Neither of which is a bike race. Also keep in mind that one should only swim in order to prevent drowning, and should only run if being chased. And even then, one should only run fast enough to prevent capture.

http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/#42

Hope this clarifies.

I have a uni friend who's been talking about doing the Arch to Arc after finding gigathons were a bit too easy for her.

Run to the Channel from Marble Arch, swim across that, then I'll let you guess the mode of transport to Paris

Arch to Arc- The bit I don't understand is the channel swim. I've got a friend on standby for her channel swim as I type - you get a one or 2 week slot and wait for a weather window to coincide with the right tide before you get the green light to go. Unless you get smoothish water and set off exactly at the right point of the tide it's an impossible feat no matter who you are. Do these Arch to Arcers do the run and hang around (a lot) for the swim or get the nod when to set off for the run and hope it takes exactly how long they thought it would? Crazy stuff!

Congratulate him in front of everyone else and as someone else said, say loudly how you'd found his results and that he'd outperformed Emma Pooley as well as his team-mates and you'd like to know what his secret it.

That way you're outing him but also congratulating him at the same time.

As others have said though, the facade won't last and he sounds like he needs bringing down a peg or 2.

Can't you just e mail(anonymously if you wish) the organisers/those responsible for collating the timings and final positions and ask them to double check the segment in question?

I think njee means a fit person who trained for it would be able to finish it well under 18 hours or within the cutoff despite not having targeted training. Fair play to the guy for doing his Pig-ironman, but perhaps being picked up by the broom wagon would have been the wake up call he needed to realise what training really involves?

That's just what I meant, CY's worded it far more eloquently! 16 hours is less than I thought I must say, but I was talking about being of 'reasonable' fitness without really targeted training. Ie a 7.5 hour bike should be pretty reasonable, that's less than 15mph. It sounds like the person the OP is talking about does not meet this criteria.

Run to the Channel from Marble Arch, swim across that, then I'll let you guess the mode of transport to Paris

joe le taxi?
TGV?
shopper bicycle with a string of onions draped over a stripey jersey?

I can't take the suspense!

shopper bicycle with a string of onions draped over a stripey jersey?

Nearly 😉

Thinking about it, this reminds me of something my old chap used to say. Ex London copper and all that. Basically he always used to say you don't get punsihed for breaking the law, you get punsihed for getting caught!

Guys bang to rights. Grass him up

Unicycle?

I have a uni friend who's been talking about doing the Arch to Arc after finding gigathons were a bit too easy for her.

I bet shes too tired when it comes to bedtime action.

Politely tell him that the splits look a little silly so that he has a chance to tell the organisers to sort them out. That way he would be able to avoid the potential scenario of being called a cheat. The splits would be sorted, he can rest happy with a new Cervelo (if it makes a difference at that level!?!) and you can also rest easy without the nagging little devil on your shoulder.

IME, these anomalies get sorted out pretty quickly anyway.

[i]When he goes through the next timing point he has apparently travelled the last 90km 10mins faster than all the pros in the field at a pace a lot of club roadies could not maintain for a flat 25mile TT and this was hilly terrain.[/i]

why not just suggest to him that the two of you go and ride the 90km section again to celebrate his completing the event. Mention you're impressed with his time and could do with the training... be funny to hear what he has to say...

I've done a few events, and I have to say, while you're in the midst of an event, it can be hard to have any idea of how far you've gone, so it could have been an honest mistake, took a wrong turning somewhere where there was a split between lap 1 and lap 2 or something.

From the guy's results*, that swim time is shocking, and certainly doesn't point towards someone who is going to get almost 19mph average in the bike (or complete the race for that matter), and that big gap in the splits with a massive boost of speed during it does suggest he missed out some of the course. Surprised there isn't a 2 hour or so cut-off time for the swim anyway, what is the chance that someone doing an ironman can't swim 4k in 1.5 hours?

*given the information you've posted, it is pretty obvious who you're talking about

.

*given the information you've posted, it is pretty obvious who you're talking about

Nice bit of detective work 😉

I'd be obliged if you didn't name here though so he could be outed by a google search for all and eternity!

Ironman switzerland per chance?

Yes pretty clear, so can't imagine the result standing for long. Save him the embarrassment with a quiet word in his ear.

Has he won any prizes?

Has he won money?

Is it a race?

Word in ear. Don't 'out' someone. It was his first entry, hes hardly podium material just annoying. Annoying doesn't require flaming.

Im was Zurich was event Pooley raced in ....seems like we can all oust him ....

....seems like we can all oust him ....

Annoying doesn't require flaming.

Cheating then bragging about the results and taking loads of praise and respect DEFINITELY requires flaming, and lots of it.

I wouldn't out him. Leave it up to him to decide. It might put him off the sport completely to pick on him.

Many moons ago at SITS I had a team mate who was easily the weakest rider in the team, but put in an astonishing night lap right up with the quickest of the event. His excuse was that he was somehow inspired on his second of two laps. We all just rubbed our chins. Luckily we forgot to register in the vet team category as we would have made the podium and then we would wonder about what to do about it.

I have no idea why he did it or how he got his timing so wrong.

Cheating then bragging about the results and taking loads of praise and respect DEFINITELY requires flaming, and lots of it.

On the basis that everyone is innocent until proven guilty, it may just be that he got lost in the moment (or was leaning so hard on his chinstrap he wasn't aware he went off route). Word in ear first and given him the opportunity to set reocrd straight with organisers.

@jumble why lie about something like that to a teammate? Would have thought there was zero chance a weak rider can set a night lap time up with the quickest on a daytime lap. Inspired or not.

Cheating then bragging about the results and taking loads of praise and respect DEFINITELY requires flaming, and lots of it.

No, that's just for people who can't overtake

As someone who worked pretty hard for a mediocre bike split I'd be pretty upset at having someone else get a free ride even for a poor bike split.

[img] [/img]

[url= http://connect.garmin.com/player/351066776 ]My bike data[/url]

Also, with a 2:23 swim, he should have been allocated a DNF by not making the swim cut-off time.

Ignoring that, he 100% wouldn't have made the 16 hours without cheating, so should be brought down a peg or 2 for sure.

Cheers, Rich

Actually, slowest swim time I can find in the results is 2:26, so they were clearly being a bit generous with the cut-off times.

Having said that, I can only find a few folk who were slower than him, so I can't quite understand how he was 1927th on the swim leg, surely he should have been closer to 2395th 😕

Cheers, Rich