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Hi All
Years ago I broke up with a girl I was seeing and was left with all of our collective debts to pay, maybe 2 grands worth. On Saturday I got a letter from the council tax people saying that due to a revaluation they owed me 250 quid on the council tax from the time I lived with the aforementioned girl 7 years ago. I have phoned the council tax office and they asked whether I was still with the girl and i lied that I was and now I need to send in a letter signed by us both agreeing that they can pay the rebate to me.
Do I be honest, or do I send in my faked signature letter?
Regards
Steve
it is stealing yes
Is your question:
1- "is it fraudulent to fake someone's signature on a document so that you get money?"
2- "would you lot also fake signatures to get money?"
do it man then just track her down and give her all of the 75 quid the council agreed to refund her
Karma will catch you for things like this.
nah its the council, they are "the man", its liberation comrade! down with the empire!!
BD - My point is that she owes me money, she has disappeared to avoid paying me the money she owes me, should I treat this as karma paying me back some. I couldn't get hold of her to let her know about it even if I wanted to
Fake the signature, trouser the money, it's only 250, and it's your rightful money. Not as if you are 'stealing' from the council.
You would have to check that the person(s) dealing with this at the council do not read this Forum 🙂
Not really stealing, more just fraud. 🙂
Not morally wrong though imo.
Anyway, of cause its stealing / fraud. Your really asking if your likely to get caught. Try it and come back and tell us. We would be interested to find out.
You wont get caught........
Just sign the letter and enjoy the money.
illegal yes
justice yes
risky yes
Do you want to risk a criminal conviction for fraud for £125?
Can you prove you paid it all and explain the situation and see if you get it all?
Just sign the paper and take the Money. A) She left you with lots of debt so you do not owe her anything. B)Its your money because you over paid the Council.
Its not like you are one of them Lazy ****s who feign injury and get that amount + more each week!
Don't panic the bloke Junkyard.
Go for it. I would (probably)
Look at it this way; That would pay for a decent set of wheels.
Next?
fake it, no hesitation.
collecting it would be fraud. you could end up in a room with a new friend who desperately wants to play hide the sausage
They had no hesitation in hitting you up for joint debts and will get who they can !!
Why should you then have to share the refund, you paid it in the first place. Legally yes it's fraud but I wouldn't lose sleep over it. It's not like it has to be notarised, she is hardly going to dob you in is she ?
Morally good ground here.
I don't think you've got a moral dilemma there 'cos you've already decided it's moral. You're not ripping off the cooncil either.
I think you have a strategic/prospects of getting found out problem!
did you make things more difficult by saying that you still lived with the girl?
Sure is, that's section 2 Fraud my man
Sign and pocket your cash.
You were 'Jointly and severally' liable to pay the tax (i.e either of you could have been persued to pay the whole debt), wouldn't you be also jointly and severally due the refund also? The refund is surely due to either or both of you. You'd need to research it further and find out.
difficulty is you've already lied, perhaps you would be perfectly correct to claim the full refund yourself.
find out whether you alone can claim the refund, if you can, see if you can backtrack. At the moment you've only [i]said[/i] she lives there and been sent the paperwork accordingly. Thats just a mistake, but [i]maybe[/i] its a mistake [i]they[/i] made, it was a bad line and you said 'no' but they heard 'yes'.
You knowingly signing the paperwork turns the mistake into fraud though.
If you can legitimately claim the refund yourself (because although two of you were named on the bill perhaps only one of you might have been funding the payments) call them and tell them you've been sent the wrong form to fill in 'by mistake'.
Yes it is fraud, but due to your circumstances, it's probably not immoral. It depends on whether you think it's worth the risk.
I am not trying to scare the OP as skidartist puts in more detail/eloquently. I would not risk a fraud conviction for £125. I think morally he deserves the money , but the risk is not worth it, IMHO, for so little gain.
How was your council tax paid? My refund came as a cheque made out to both of us (we're not married so why they would assume we have a joint account i don't know, could have just been friends). I can prove that council tax was paid out of my account by direct debit and so refund cheque should be in my name only
skidartist puts in more detail/eloquently.
yeah sorry about that - my house was over run by kids this weekend, in the calm after the storm its such a pleasure to be able to reach the end of a sentence and remember how it started.
The council tax was always paid cash as we lived near the civic centre.
There are no forms, they just said to write a letter saying to write the cheque to just me, both sign it and send it in.
The girl no longer lives in the area, they would have a difficult time proving that she didn't sign the letter, im hoping the letter is just filed away somewhere so the council can tick a box that needs ticking and thats all
do it
will be fine
yes it will be fine but what kind 😉
Write the letter, authorising them to send the cheque to you. Sign it. Yourself. As yourself. And thats it. There's no need to involve the ex's name or signature. Just you, in relation to your address and your council tax ref number. Repayment isn't contingent on her being there still, or signing anything is it. They just need to be sure that you OR her are receiving the refund and not someone else. The council has money that isn't due to them, they need to hand it back. They hand it back to you. Job done.
If the ex was to feel she had a claim on in it, then thats an issue for you and her. Its nothing for the council to involve themselves in. But if she was to subsiquently claim the same refund from the council - which she has as much right as you to do - shit would hit the fan if a forged signiture was unearthed. But if she made a claim only to find that you had got there first, then no doubt she'd be arsey about it, but you wouldn't be shown to be a criminal, just thorough and thrifty.
While you are umming and ahhhing she might be writing her letter right now, properly.
Skidartist has put it well, follow that advice.
get some one else to sign it!
Fraud by false representation unfortunately! not worth getting caught IMO. Have you not seen My Name is Earl either!
You have already lied about being with the old GF. Difficult to backtrack now, but maybe better in the long run if you do.
Steve,
Sorry mate, if you send the letter in on which you have forged your ex-girlfriends signature you will be fraudulently obtaining money from the council. End of no excuses.
Is it worth a caution or conviction, with the knock on effect it may have on your employability now or in the future? This ex could end up costing you more than you are willing to pay well into the future...
The best course of action would be to either forget it now that you have already lied, take it no further. Or speak to the council explain the situation, that in the heat of the moment you incorrectly indicated that you were still together but that is not correct and explore with them what possibilities exist to get the money released if any.
Good luck
MUTDs
I did it from a shared house ages ago, as my ex-housemate wasn't around to sign it.
We did share the money though, but i think the council just sent me a cheque IIRC. It was a while ago mind, memory might be a bit hazy...
Just take the 'free' £125 and walk away.
if you know her signature just sign it. they'd have to prove she didn't, It's her word against yours...
😀
sign it!!!
As said above, not worth risking a conviction for fraud/theft/dishonesty for the sake of £125/£250.
Some of you guys that say sign for her and send, really are giving bad advise. Fraud is dishonest, makes me realise what a amoral country we now live in.
Theres no need to falsify anything, you're perfectly entitled to all of the money, if you fibbed on the phone so what. Write to them as they asked you too, honestly. They'll pay you all the money, correctly. Your Ex will have missed the bus, deservedly. Make a cup of tea, contentedly.
Your not entitled to the money. You and your partner are entitled to the money.
By claiming it you are committing fraud. iirc its two year in prison for Ctax fraud.
Either you, your partner or both of you are entitled. Who gets the money is a decision that either or both of you can make.
If your partner or a flatmate flits owing stacks of Council Tax you, soley you would be responsible for paying it of they couldn't find them, or even if they could find them and they didn't feel like paying. Rudeboy was in exactly that position recently was he not?
You can claim it, but you should claim it honestly, theres no contract between you and your ex and its not the council's place to act as if there is one. Either of you can claim all of the money with out without the knowledge or the approval of the other, just as either of you can pay the bill with or without the knowledge of the other.
Committing fraud to claim small sum of money is nuts, committing fraud the claim something thats actually yours... how nuts would that be.
As I say, forget you said your GF lives there, let them forget it too, write to them and claim the money for yourself. If they ask about your GF tell them she's gone and she's non of their business.
Ring up the council and explain that you misunderstood the question, that you are not NOW living with the GF, that she left you with council tax debt you have paid off. I expect they will pay you the money just to get it off their books.