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Any moped lads able to offer advice on a 50cc scooter for my wife? She’s done her CBT and rode a scooter for a few years. Looking for something for her daily commute.
What’s decent? I’d get a classic geared Vespa but she’s not having that.
Why not go electric? Niu have some neat little 50cc equivalents.
https://www.green-mopeds.com/niu-mqi-sport-series-215-p.asp
I wouldn't get a 50cc. 80 or 100 helps a lot in traffic
Honda PCX is the goto. And 50cc is not recommended. My instructor basically said they were dangerous!
A cbt is a licence to learn, not a crack on and do what you want. Do the proper test first while you figure out what bike is most appropriate.
Is the wie planning on sitting the test to get a full licence?
From memory there was a bit in the regs that the bike you sit your test on had to be capable of doing 60mph. If that is still the case then she would have to get used to, and pay for the use of, a driving school's bike.
As above 50cc bikes are dangerous and i wouldn't advise.
BTW I passed my test on a Vespa T5 which was the only learner legal geared scooter you could sit your test on at the time.
Why are 50cc bikes dangerous?
Back in the day a full car licence was a full moped licence.
Has that changed?
Why are 50cc bikes dangerous?
Too slow - you need something to keep up with traffic.
On a CBT she can ride up to a 125cc and I would recommend that personally.
I wouldn’t get a 50cc. 80 or 100 helps a lot in traffic
Too slow – you need something to keep up with traffic.
On a CBT she can ride up to a 125cc and I would recommend that personally
This.
The commute is almost entirely 30mph roads end to end with a 500m section of 40mph. I get the issue with them on faster roads but a 50cc should meet her needs for this job and she has several years of experience riding one.
We have two Yamaha Gear 50cc scooters, 2 stroke and pretty nippy because they are JDM and unrestricted.
I used to ride sports bikes and I can honestly say I have more fun on the 50 hooning the local lanes.
Too slow – you need something to keep up with traffic.
Is that not like saying cycling in traffic is dangerous?
I concur, do the CBT, get something more like this:
https://www.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/range/scooter/sh-mode-125-2014/overview.html
Work up to full license.
50's are only great if you want to sound like a hairdryer on full tilt. Also small wheels and surprise potholes do not mix
Yeah unless your wife is 16, get a 125cc If you're worried about her having to handle the awesome power of a 125 or accidentally winding it up to over 30mph, don't buy any kind of motorbike / scooter.
Problems with 50s
They're slow, it's not that they're even limited to 30, it's actually 28mph meaning that too many arse drivers will be trying to pass you everywhere, like cycling really, apart from they give you less room and go faster. Riding any two wheeled vehicle is an exercise in self-defence, at least most drivers give cyclists a bit of room and on a 125 you can at least keep with traffic. 50cc seems the worst of both worlds to me.
They're owned by 16 year olds, would you buy a second-hand car from a 16 year old? How about one that they only legally had to keep for a year before they were able to swap it for one with more than twice the power? A 'nice' clean 4 year old 50cc could have had 4 owners, who all used it to spin up merry go rounds in parks, tear through housing estates with the throttle pinned for hours and down stair cases, and that's the 'nice' ones - quite a few would have been used to get away from the police, they do attract wrong 'uns.
Is that not like saying cycling in traffic is dangerous?
In my experience, drivers only accidentally try to kill cyclists, the seem to actively try to kill motorcyclists. Honestly, I've done both, a small number of drivers hate motorbikes for 'pushing in' and will do all sorts of dangerous shit to 'punish' you, even if you're not actually filtering.
+1 for a slightly bigger engine. As 16yr olds go I was probably relatively sensible but had a long commute to school and eventually blew up my 50cc scooter as it spent 40 minutes every morning with the throttle pinned open commuting into town. On the upside parts are cheap, I think it cost £80 for a piston, rings, and cylinder!
Obvious choice of delivery riders everywhere is the Suzuki Burgman. Horrible name, horrible looks, but a bit of weather protection from the screen (and one of those knee cape things) and a taller/stiffer chassis. And probably a bit less desirable to scrotes.
Why are 50cc bikes dangerous?
My wife's CBT instructor put it simply, "they've got just enough power to get you into trouble, but not enough to get you out of it."
If you have the crank the thing hard to get any acceleration out of it and it's running close to full power just holding speed with the traffic at 30mph, it won't have a healthy life, mechanically speaking. Whereas a 125 will accelerate more easily, give you more power to overtake something quickly if you need to and will be more comfortable on 40 or 50mph bigger roads.
Back in the day a full car licence was a full moped licence.
That changed in 2001. Anyone who passed their car test prior to that gets the 50cc moped included but after that you have to do a CBT.
a 50cc two stroke would be OK, but a 50cc four stroke would be pathetically slow
125cc four stroke is standard fare for most mopeds for good reason
+n for avoiding a 50cc, the only reason to get one of those is if you're 16.
She’s done her CBT and rode a scooter for a few years
If she's been riding for "a few" years then her CBT has expired, it's only valid for two years.
I'm not entirely sure I'd want to do a 'daily commute' without lessons and a test first.
Honda PCX is the goto.
+1 to this also. When my ex got a scooter we looked at loads and the PCX was head and shoulders the best one we looked at. It's an automatic, if gears are a barrier to entry.
TBH, I disagree with the idea that they're unsafe, I rode mine for a year on A-roads, B-roads and around town. Yes it 'only' does 30mph if it's still restricted, but you've got a lot more road presence than a push bike, and you'll be riding out in the middle of the lane/road not the gutter like a push bike. I don't remember ever feeling unsafe on it as a result of the lack of speed.
And that was restricted. Take whatever washer has been fitted to the carb/exhaust out and it'll probably do ~45mph anyway.
Mine had a hard life doing hours at full throttle till it blew up. But bear in mind that the restrictor plates probably meant it was effectively running at part throttle anyway so the blowing up may have been entirely unrelated to my use.
A 125 will be better in all sorts of ways, but I'm not sure safety is one of them. My scooter still had enough front brake to endo, and the 125 then had enough power to get you halfway past a car in an overtake before running out of steam as you leave it's slipstream and stranding you riding next to it in the oncoming lane 😂.
What was that Harry Enfield character I'm now reminded of?
If she’s been riding for “a few” years then her CBT has expired, it’s only valid for two years.
I thought if you already had a car licence or passed it within 2 years of the CBT then you got a full moped licence and so if you stick to 50cc you dont need to redo the CBT every 2 years.
Oh, I dunno about that. That's what I was told when I did mine, but I then did DAS rather than a moped so if mopeds were different it's not something that would likely have come up. Probably worth a nosy on DVLA's website to confirm.
She did CBT voluntarily as she has been driving for years and you do not need CBT with a full license before 2001. Which is why all the "get training advice" is annoying as she did get training off her own accord. I wonder if I'd asked about e-bikes whether the advice would have been the same. She is a really experienced cyclist, driver and has 2 years 50cc bike riding under her belt. I'm struggling to see why she has to get a bigger bike and do a test for a shortish low speed commute. Whereas we would be up in arms if it was remotely suggested that an ebike rider (or cyclist) should do the same.
So....any more ideas on a decent moped now I've taken on board that you'd all rather she got something bigger and passed her test.
Have you looked at the Peugeot E-Ludix electric scooter?
It's a long time since I had a moped but electric seems a better option than petrol for urban use.
@DavidB - that's pretty key info
If she has a valid CBT then definitely get a 125cc scooter
If she doesn't have a valid CBT and has a car licence that'll cover a 50cc then that's surely the option. Irrespective of what everyone, including me, was saying above
I have no advice for a 50cc scooter. I rode my mates 50cc 4 stroke scooter, might have been a vespa, and I found it dangerously slow. Would only hit 30mph on the flat, really struggled up hill. But I have a full bike licence so am used to more power in general. But overall, I didn't enjoy the 50cc 4 stroke scooter. I spoke to another guy who has a bike licence and had a 50cc two stroke for going to the station, he said that it was actually quite good fun.
She did CBT voluntarily as she has been driving for years and you do not need CBT with a full license before 2001. Which is why all the “get training advice” is annoying as she did get training off her own accord.
She did Compulsory Basic Training voluntarily and frankly she'd have been a bloody idiot not to just because it wasn't a legal requirement. The CBT teaches you "this makes it go, this makes it stop, this is the bare minimum roadcraft you need to know to probably not die."
As how much of a riding god you / she may think she is, a few lessons might a good idea. It's almost certainly not a bad one. And the same is true of plenty of road cyclists and ebikerists (and for that matter motorists of the "I've been driving for 40 years!" persuasion). There's too many people of all disciplines on the road who simply do not have a clue.
Besides which, why would anyone not want to get rid of their L plates?
I had a 50cc Vespa about 17 years ago when I lived in SW London and commuted to the West End - for London traffic it was ace. Great fun, never an issue of being underpowered even with my wife on the back (we are both vertically challenged and lightweight though).
If I was to have one now though, living and working in the Leeds area would have a 125cc as the general flow of traffic is faster.
S
Sounds like the Democratic Moped Lads Alliance says No to Mopeds!
Cougar you do not need L plates on a 50cc moped with a full license pre 2001.
Sounds like the Democratic Moped Lads Alliance says No to Mopeds!
I look forward to the petition to ban them and anyone who dares ride one without undertaking DAS which makes you a total god of the road in a week.
Democratic Moped Lads Alliance
Splitters.
Cougar you do not need L plates on a 50cc moped with a full license pre 2001.
Really? Jesus.
Er, so to speak.
New or Second hand? From my swift google new ones are all much of a muchness anyways. The only choice is 2 or 4 stroke (if 4 stroke 50cc scooters still exist, I couldn't find a Honda one - who are th ego to for boring 4 stroke reliability) - a two stroke will be potentially marginally less reliable - but given the restriction the engine won't be stressed, and it'll be more fun on the way to the heady 28mph top speed.
Second hand, buy on condition, they will all likely be derestricted and then ragged to within inch of their lives by spotty, hammer handed tennagers, probably dropped repeatedly and possibly nicked.
I was thinking new for the second reason
Although i've been sent pics of a lovely Vespa 50 that has sat in a garage for years
Assuming it's a two stroke, things to watch out for due to being laid up are stuff like dead crank seals, gummed up piston rings, off two stroke oil in the tank/lines, oil pump not working due to off oil.
More generally, cracked/perished tyres, perished brake lines, rusty discs, old brake fluid, aged pads, evaporated/old coolant, perished grips, off fuel, electrics not working right anymore...
Get the Vespa 50 if it's the older geared version (50N or 50 Special). Far more style than any Japanese plastic fantastic.
No need to worry about a non-functioning oil pump as it hasn't got one. Neither will it have brake lines, discs or fluid nor coolant.
Tyres are cheap and if it needs an engine rebuilt you can do it easily enough with normal workshop tools.
Maybe a Sym 50.
Sym get good reviews for their bigger scooters so they aren’t churning out tat and seem to be a quite established brand
New then 😉
Yet another +1 for not a 50cc, I don't totally agree with "not fast enough" but this is undeniably true:
"They’re owned by 16 year olds, would you buy a second-hand car from a 16 year old?"
It's like old DH bikes- you sometimes think, hey, I could get a Stinky for £400 and use it for uplifts", then you realise that before this happened, someone else said "I could get a stinky for £400 and use it for uplifts", thrashed it for a couple of years, and is now selling it rather than replace all the stuff that needs replaced, which is everything". At least twice.
And that applies for selling on, too, because nobody wants a good 50cc either- kids want a cheap one, anyone that wants a decent bike gets a 125.
Let's return to how great an idea it is to ride on a possibly lapsed cbt forever.
Should we be handing out 2 year driving licences to anyone who can identify what the controls do and has driven around an empty car park without crashing?
https://www.green-mopeds.com/super-soco-tsx-1500w-279-p.asp
£3k for an electric motorbike, what a rip off, you could get a mid range mountain bike for that 🙂
Let’s return to how great an idea it is to ride on a possibly lapsed cbt forever.
Should we be handing out 2 year driving licences to anyone who can identify what the controls do and has driven around an empty car park without crashing?
No we shouldn't in the same way that those who swerved round a few cones and then did 4 laps of a street 30 years ago should also have their licenses revoked (raises hand). Where do over 50 bikers stand? They passed a piss easy test on a 125 which needed ne
]t to no training at all. I had zero lessons same as most of my mates. The whole test system was an utter joke and has only recently been improved. The advanced test should be mandatory for both bikers and car drivers. A mate of mine was forced to take it by his biking mates as they refused to have him on their runs till he did. I don't have the answer but I do know that there are those able to learn roadcraft and the vast majority of the rest of the population. Like it or not my wife is a great driver, cautious cyclist and I'm confident that she'd be safe on a motorbike. I'm not sure I can say that of the ****ts with full licenses I see riding round here in Devon at full pelt in towns and tiny roads.
I’ll add my weight to the get a 125 brigade
I was going to get a 50 because I got my car license before 2001, but decided to get a 125 after I did my CBT, I’m glad I did, even the 125 is piss poor. When I first got it I was riding at 30 in a built up area and getting overtaken by cars who thought they could squeeze by anyway. Now I keep with the traffic flow.
Mine is an older Yamaha Vity, it’s got about 8hp, will do mid 50s(mph) a full chat with a good run up and about 100mpg.
I’ve changed jobs and now I’m going across Cannock chase which has a reccomended speed limit of 40mph, which means me riding at 50 and being overtaken by cars doing 70ish. It’s horrible.
Once my house move is sorted I’m doing my DAS and getting a 400 or similar so I’m not flat out on tiny wheels all the time.
Don’t underestimate how horrible it feels to be going absolute max speed all the time, which on a 50 you always will be.
DavidB
Subscriber
Let’s return to how great an idea it is to ride on a possibly lapsed cbt forever.Should we be handing out 2 year driving licences to anyone who can identify what the controls do and has driven around an empty car park without crashing?
No we shouldn’t in the same way that those who swerved round a few cones and then did 4 laps of a street 30 years ago should also have their licenses revoked (raises hand). Where do over 50 bikers stand? They passed a piss easy test on a 125 which needed ne
]t to no training at all. I had zero lessons same as most of my mates. The whole test system was an utter joke and has only recently been improved. The advanced test should be mandatory for both bikers and car drivers. A mate of mine was forced to take it by his biking mates as they refused to have him on their runs till he did. I don’t have the answer but I do know that there are those able to learn roadcraft and the vast majority of the rest of the population. Like it or not my wife is a great driver, cautious cyclist and I’m confident that she’d be safe on a motorbike. I’m not sure I can say that of the ****ts with full licenses I see riding round here in Devon at full pelt in towns and tiny roads.
This licence stuff is interesting isn't it? I'm 51, I passed my car test in '86 when I was 17. I took my bike test in 2000 when I was 30. Getting my car licence when I did means that I've got all sorts of crazy stuff on my licence, 7.5t vans, trailers, 50cc mopeds without L plates etc.
When I did my bike test I had to do a theory and accompanied riding test. Was fairly stringent I thought but I'd agree that the current bike test is more intense as it's in 2 parts.
Problem is, it doesn't matter when you pass your test - you're still able to ride or drive like an utter bastard if that's the sort of person you are. I've been out on the motorbikes with some great riders that passed the 'ride around the block' test and some right numpties that have done the latest 2 part test. And vice versa.
Anyway, if the OP fancies a 50cc bike for their other half - and they've had experience of 50cc peds - then there's no problem getting another one. I'd be interested in electric if it was me, but they seem a bit pricey at the moment.
I’ll add to the ‘get a 125’ brigade.
Mainly because 30/40mph on a 125 isn’t flat out.
Riding any type of machine constantly flat out is bad for longevity imo.
A 125 otoh, id happily ride up and down the country.
And i have done.
I had zero lessons same as most of my mates.
Well, that's symptomatic of a bigger problem isn't it.
We've discussed many times before the notion of compulsory retests, but I think there's definitely a need for periodic refresher courses. Things change. Even if 30 years ago you took the world's most comprehensive test, it was 30 years ago.
Back when I learned mini-roundabouts were a relatively new phenomenon, to this day I still routinely see drivers older than me who demonstrably don't have a clue what to do on them. They were never taught and lack the gorm to try and find out.
a 50cc is designed to ride flat out all day and will do so quite happily as they are very understressed engines. Thats not the issue. the issue is being able to keep up with traffic in 30 mph limits. ON a 50cc you can get bullied by car drivers wanting to do 35 mph. which can be very dangerous.
There is a european 80cc class which makes for a good commuter bike.
It takes ten minutes to make a 50 do 45mph
If the OP wants a 50 then he should get a 50.
The 28mph limit is horrible to experience, but it’s not as bad as the small prayer you have to say each time you pull out of a junction/roundabout.
They accelerate like glaciers.
I understand all the reasons why a 50cc looks perfect on paper for the OPs circumstances, but I’d suggest trying to borrow one for a few hours before accepting a 125cc is a safer place to be.
I borrowed a Honda Vision 50cc a couple of years back to pop into town and it struggled to get up a modest incline, and that’s not exaggeration.
Is that not like saying cycling in traffic is dangerous?
Cycling in traffic is dangerous.
I'm looking for a moped at the moment and quite happy with a 50cc. I have a full motorbike licence from my younger days. For nipping around Bristol, which is all 30 or 20 speed limits.
My son turns 16 later in the year and he could then use it to get to football training etc. I see it as safer than a road bike (bicycle).
Years ago I had a Piaggio Sfera 80cc that I bought cheap stolen and recovered. I used to do a bit of MX/2strokes so tuned it quite a bit. Used to wheelie from the lights was brilliant fun but I binned it a few times as the chassis couldn't live with the engine.
Have toyed with buying a Honda Ruckus/Zoomer/NPS50 for scooting about on as they are cool enough for mid life grey haired blokes to be seen on. Possibly...
Cycling in traffic is dangerous.
No its not.
Not absolutely dangerous tj, but it can be on occasion, if you have a ****wit driving in proximity.