[Closed] Molgrips' car #6 - it's over

Are you planning on overtaking things now?

Glad it is sorted

Time to sell it then while the goings good 😉

We like a happy ending ! Nice work on the repair. Cars do increasingly seem to be drifting towards replace instead of repair from the manufacturers standpoint, quite worrying.

ATP I have seriously considered it now I can do so with a clean conscience 🙂 before all the dirt I inevitably dropped into the complex expensive hydraulic gubbins destroys said gubbins..

Cars do increasingly seem to be drifting towards replace instead of repair from the manufacturers standpoint, quite worrying

Yeah this is an interesting point as to why they'd design the unit as a monolithic piece. It's a huge advantage to be able to take this thing out of the front of the gearbox from under the car, you don't even need to remove anything besides a piece of air hose, but why don't VW let their dealers fix the actual units?

The fix was a piece of cake - unbolt old valve, bolt new one on - and it'd generate a hell of a lot more good will if people could have their boxes fixed for £300 instead of £1500. And what are they doing with the old mostly working units save for one valve that they take out of people's cars?

😀

so what was the eventual outcome of the CPU story ?
(must've nodded off somewhere about June)

June this year or last? Or 2012? 😉

Engine ECU fitted by dodgy guy was wrong type, he claimed the old one was buggered when it really wasn't, wrong type cpu eventually failed due to being wrong type, had to get new one from VW at cost of £1200.

had to get new one from VW at cost of £1200.

VWs - over rated, over priced piles of poo.

Out of interest, which valve in particular was it?

[quote=DaveyBoyWonder said]VWs - over rated, over priced piles of poo.

DaveyBoyWonder - Member - Quote
Regrettably, we're having to sell our BMW 330I to fund a new VW T5 camper van. We've only owned the car since January and in that time its not put a foot wrong and has had some preventative bits done by us to remediate a couple of issues.

Not a good camper van experience then I take it 🙂

Sorry, I was just getting in there before the anti-VAG brigade got in. Completely forgot I have a fkn incredible T5 van outside 😀

(any refund obtained ?)

No, see OP.

VWs - over rated, over priced piles of poo.

See, if I thought that, I wouldn't have put the effort in. I realised that in my case the DSG is why I like the car so much. It's just fantastic to drive. I'd buy another VAG car just so I could get another DSG 🙂

Out of interest, which valve in particular was it?

The control valve (N215) for clutch 1 (K1) that does 1st, 3rd, 5th and reverse. The TSB that VW found said 'worn valve mount' whatever that means - perhaps they meant worn valve seat, I dunno. But it meant that the electronics couldn't control the valve properly. So it'd open it up a smidge and too much oil would go through resulting in too much clutch pressure, so it'd have to back off then try opening it again, and so on - repeat til up to speed.

No, see OP.

That's good news molg, pleased for you! V diligent too.

And what are they doing with the old mostly working units save for one valve that they take out of people's cars?

They're taking them back to Wolfsburg, fitting a valve bought off some guy in Denmark for €80, then selling them as replacement units to customers for £1500, I'd imagine.

Wouldn't get that problem on a Golf R Estate... and you could overtake things...

That Golf R had a DSG though 🙂

i opened this expecting to see "sold it" 🙁

is disappoint 😉

Want to buy a Passat?

must be a low milage example is it ? 😀

If I were you I would give some serious consideration to getting rid of the car having already experienced issues with the gearbox and then doing a DIY repair on the hydraulics. Modern hydraulically controlled automatic transmissions of all varieties are very sensitive to hydraulic contamination, and as you know can be expensive when they go wrong. The reason that vw don't let dealers work on the transmissions is partly because they require cleanliness, and also they are complex systems whereby a fault with one component could result in any number of different symptoms.

I can't pass a potential lemon onto an unsuspecting buyer, so I'll just hold onto it.

Re cleanliness - taking it out of the car and putting it back is far dirtier than fixing it on a bench, and they let dealers do that...

Very true, but it is probably a case of minimising the risk of contamination. The more you allow the dealers to do, the more chance there is for contamination or build errors. I work with these kind of transmissions on a daily basis and if it were me I would want a replacement transmission, and that is why the only way I would have a car with a dct would be under warranty!!

If I keep it for 20 years and it only shits its pants once, I'll be happy. It's worth it for the driving pleasure.

Interesting though - there are loads of screen filters all the way through. The in and out valve ports are screened, so even if I get dirt in the sump it'll stay out of the valves; and as long as it doesn't lunch the pump it'll end up stuck in the main filter. Assuming I didn't get anything in the valve body itself, but I don't think I did as I did that on the kitchen table when it was all out and clean. I did knock some dirt in it when taking it out of the car.. hope I got it all out!

I can't pass a potential lemon onto an unsuspecting buyer, so I'll just hold onto it.

I can recommend a car supermarket that have 0 qualms about doing it to their customers if it helps?

Sometimes when you are slightly ahead its better to clear your chips from the table, cash them in and buy something new, maybe Japanese.

dont say that to the engineering boss here .... his 2.2 honda accord is going in for its second turbo manifold in as many years.....google reveals its a pretty common fault for the 2.2 engine.

hes not a happy bunny.

How much all in (time and money) has this car cost you?

Time - loads, although it's not all lost since I've learned a lot.
Money caused by car faults - about £60
Money caused by crap mechanic - £2k

Don't get started on 'you should've sold it'. Selling it would've cost me more.

I would just get rid of it, it's not a particularly exciting car and it's just caused hassle. Unless of course you will run out of ideas for topics on here :-p

Yeah but the hassle is fixed. Anything else that can go wrong will be unrelated to anything else, so could happen to any car.

dont say that to the engineering boss here .... his 2.2 honda accord is going in for its second turbo manifold in as many years.....google reveals its a pretty common fault for the 2.2 engine.

Ah- I read that too. Our window cleaner has been through two turbos and a whole engine. I always buy N/A petrols now. Simplier the better.

Yeah but the hassle is fixed. Anything else that can go wrong will be unrelated to anything else, so could happen to any car.

Would seem at odds with

I can't pass a potential lemon onto an unsuspecting buyer, so I'll just hold onto it.

No?

"I always buy N/A petrols now. Simplier the better."

i have old school N/A diesels but they are getting rarer and harder to find.

i suspect when i come to renew it will be with a small petrol car.

I have a nice reliable mondeo I can swap you

Bugger, and I thought this thread (before I opened it) was about the unfortunate end of car number 6 in a 6 car overtake!

If I keep it for 20 years and it only shits its pants once, I'll be happy. It's worth it for the driving pleasure.

Driving pleasure, Passat???? That's the first time I've ever heard that mentioned before in one statement 😀 Still, I guess if you don't actually enjoy driving then the Passat is the perfect vehicle since it insulates you so well from the sensation of actually driving, which might then make it enjoyable I suppose.

Now that you've reached the season finale, and what with Christmas coming and everything, have you thought of making these threads available as a box set?

Cougar - there is still a chance I've introduced some dirt in the gearbox that would cause a problem, which is what I was referring to. The rest of the car is no more likely to fail than any other car of that age.

Selling it because I think it's going to break is dishonest. If I don't think it's going to break, then I'll keep it. So there's no way I can sell it, is there?

Rebel12, stop being such a bellend. I enjoy driving all too much, which is why I drive a Passat. Think about it.

There's more to driving than driving fast.

Selling it because I think it's going to break is dishonest.

Not really. Everyone who sells a car with 100,000 on the clocks does it for that reason, it's old/tired and is liklely to start costing money sometime soon.

Still, I guess if you don't actually enjoy driving then the Passat is the perfect vehicle since it insulates you so well from the sensation of actually driving, which might then make it enjoyable I suppose.

I enjoy driving an MG Midget because i like going round wet roundabouts looking where I'm going through the passenger window and I occasionalyhave to chase the laydeezz off it (true story, especialy Chinese/Japanese).

I enjoy driving my 1.6 petrol beige-blue C-max (for an orderly queue laydeezzz) because it get's me places. I still enjoy driving it. Nice stereo, air con, comfy seats, cup holders, working syncromesh on all 5 gears, what's not to enjoy?

It would only be dishonest if you specifically hid the details of any work to the new buyer.

If a buyer asked me if there were any problems, could I say no with a straight face? I dunno. Would you buy it, knowing its story?

Yes.
They've been fixed.

Isn't that what you say when selling any second hand car?

Well hats off to you for fixing it and sticking with. Too many people treat cars like white goods. They're tools, but tools still need looking after.
I was going to ask what VAG group car it was having missed episodes 1-5 but see it's a Passat.

[i]They're tools, but tools still need looking after.[/i]

molgrips and his broom after a spot of 'looking after'

[img] [/img]

molgrips - Member

If a buyer asked me if there were any problems, could I say no with a straight face? I dunno. Would you buy it, knowing its story?

Drives nice, no problems.

Why do they need to know the story ?

Maybe, After another few thousand miles of good running.. but then again if it's sound why bother?

molgrips - Member

Maybe, After another few thousand miles of good running.. but then again if it's sound why bother?

Because we've been here before "yeah it's all sorted now" and it's still costing hundreds upon hundreds after that, time and time again.. Just get rid. It's not like it's an Enzo your old man raced in the 70's in and there's a massive emotional attachement.

Or did your Mrs give birth to one of the Mollys in the back seat or something?

Hah.. after all this effort there is definitely an emotional attachment!

I'm not getting rid, there's just no point. If I think it's going to die I can't sell it, if I don't then I don't need to.

So you'll keep it forever?

just offload it to an auction, or PX with a dealer
if it's essentially worthless other than a banger that may fail at any time, then a few quid in the pocket to get rid is a few quid towards a replacement.
I'd have binned it ages ago though.

I enjoy driving all too much, which is why I drive a Passat. Think about it.

So driving a car such as a Passat is the only way to control your animal urges not to go for the 5 car overtake? A self enforced neutering of the urge to make progress? Understand now, and how that must make watching the actions of those selfish t**ssers indulging in the antisocial behaviour of actually wanting to get somewhere (by overtaking safely) even harder to swallow.

What happens on the next fault? It becomes your permanent driveway folly? Winters coming- the tester of all mechanical parts. Get rid!

the antisocial behaviour of actually wanting to get somewhere

I get somewhere, I always get where I'm going. It just takes slightly longer, that's all, and is much safer and nicer to other road users.

What happens on the next fault?

Depends what it is, and if it can be fixed. The next fault will be dealt with as if it were the first.

99% of the car has not been affected - you do realise cars are collections of objects, not one single object. Most of them are not related.

LoL at Northwind! how is the turbo now?

As for bangernomics, if you aren't reliant on the car, can still get around when its borked and can tolerate the times it lets you down (which probably means your mainly doing short/local journeys in it...or you've paid for a good breakdown and recovery service), then it can be very cheap motoring, particularly if you have the space, tools and ability to do repairs yourself. But running a DSG boxed banger...really? they have never been, and still aren't, well renown reliable items and they are basically 'repair by replacement' at considerable cost. There are some cars I'd choose not to run as a banger, and a DSG box is one of them.

I fear for the future banger driver...and by knock on I fear the cost to all of us as bangers disappear. With modern cars being ever more complex, repair by replacement and everything controlled by electronics...when they show faults they aren't going to be repairable. I read recently of someone rejecting a brand new octavia after a couple of months of constant faults. The dealer diagnosed a fault somewhere on the CANBUS that was causing it, and were unable to repair it. If man dealers are forced to accept a rejection as they can't fix it on a brand new car, god help the future owner as it nears banger status.

But running a DSG boxed banger...really?

It's not a banger! It's an 06 plate Passat with 2 owners, FSH and 100k miles.

they have never been, and still aren't, well renown reliable items and they are basically 'repair by replacement' at considerable cost.

Er.. I just repaired mine for 80 €

neilnevill - Member

LoL at Northwind! how is the turbo now?

Very well thank you! Few thousand miles on, had a wee wobble when the MAF went on strike but otherwise going very well. And hasn't been parked in a river or produced a cloud for AGES so I'm calling it a win.

TBH it seems a little weaker and a little less economic than before it blew up but that's probably just what happens if you fit a £150 turbo from ebay instead of a £1200 turbo from garrett. Mustn't grumble.

Till the dmf or clutch goes, then I'll grumble like you would not believe. I've been practicing.

When I changed the turbo in my previous Passat (which was a genuine banger) it couldn't manage as much boost, despite being an exact match. Although it was off a van I think because the actuator arm was a different shape.

A self enforced neutering of the urge to make progress? Understand now, and how that must make watching the actions of those selfish t**ssers indulging in the antisocial behaviour of actually wanting to get somewhere (by overtaking safely)

How is overtaking* an illustration of 'enjoying driving'? Dishwater is more interesting.

*safely on a nice long straight bit of road, not pulling a dummy up the outside, switching to the inside, out braking your opponent and barely holding the back end inline in an 800bhp F1 car.

PS I do overtake safely.

I think maybe I should get one of those dashboard cams and record when I overtake, to prove it.

oops, sorry if I offended Moley, I'd agree an )6 plate doesn't fit into 'banger' category, for me at least.

well done on the repair. 100k you say? still on the original box? maybe they are better than I thought, I still think you're on a slippery slope with that DSG though.

PS I do overtake safely.

I don't, I just waft along to my destination in [s]luxury[/s][i]poverty spec + a smidgen focus[/i].

I don't think 100k is a long time for the gearbox. The gears themselves are no worse than a manual box, the issues people have had are with the mechatronics, ie the sensors and valves.

Although when I've been searching most of the posts of people complaining on forums seem to be from a fair few years ago, and they were early models so things might've improved.

We'll see!

neilnevill - Member \
I fear for the future banger driver...and by knock on I fear the cost to all of us as bangers disappear. With modern cars being ever more complex, repair by replacement and everything controlled by electronics...when they show faults they aren't going to be repairable.

Scrappage scheme ruined bangernomics for me - most of the simple euro diesels and unbreakable Japanese tat just disappeared.

I was hoping to putter into the future on a never ending raft of cheap Fiats, Bluebirds and Sunnys.

Glad it's fixed.
Don't get too attached.

🙂

think the clutches aren't so....bullet proof either, especially the dry clutch versions, however I don't intend to be a doom monger, so let me congratulate you for repairing your DSG, may it give many more years of trouble free service.

It's a myth that electronics make things harder to fix. In general, ECUs are very reliable. The stuff that fails is MAFs, cam/crankshaft position sensors, temperature sensors etc, and the computer tells you what's wrong.

I'd say invest in a code reader or diagnostic tool, and stick with whatever system you've got. Having bought a VCDS now and worked with it, I'll probably stay with VAG in future since that's where my knowledge is.

Definitely an argument against modern diesel bangernomics, where the extras are more risky - but then perhaps the price will end up being driven so low it'll be worth it again.

think the clutches aren't so....bullet proof either, especially the dry clutch versions

Yeah I tried to research the clutch lifetime/replacement costs, but I saw very little talk about this, whereas there was loads about mechatronics units. Which would tend to suggest the clutches aren't too bad - but I dunno.

molgrips - Member

It's a myth that electronics make things harder to fix. In general, ECUs are very reliable. The stuff that fails is MAFs, cam/crankshaft position sensors, temperature sensors etc, and the computer tells you what's wrong.

In theory. In practice a sensor can fail but not throw a fault, like my MAF. (and ironically work worse than it would have, if it had just died completely)

Or it can fail and throw a completely unhelpful fault code, like the crank sensor in my focus (which also showed how electronics can be a total bollocks- when it reported the fault, it cut the engine out instantly, taking out the power steering and brake servo.)

Yeah that can happen, but it's usually a good start.

On the other hand, half the sensors in my car can fail and the car uses a fallback value to keep driving. I know this works, I unplugged half of them trying to diagnose my issues 🙂

Yah, I quite liked that a faulty sensor made mine drive worse than no sensor at all 😆

I just miss spannering on the motorbike, you could diagnose anything by feeling it, smelling it, listening to it, poking it with a multimeter or a screwdriver. Or a hammer, sometimes.

Mind you, the diagnostic software does look pretty fast and furious.

[img] [/img]

vcds you say....you're not anywhere sooth london are you? I want to tweak a few settings on my new octavia 😀

Happy to help anyone within range with my VCDS. I get to London occasionally, but not imminently. Unless you want to meet me at Heathrow on some Tuesday afternoon where I will be...

No I'm not in a rush, thanks for the offer though. since I just want to do little adjustments like turn on tear drop wipe and both rear fog lights a trip to heathrow is not called for. If you ever happen to be near crystal palace/streatham however I will provide 24 pack of beer/few bottles of wine/bottle of (cheap 😉 ) scotch for your troubles.

I suspect I'll get my own vcds soon anyway....me with a brand new octy and brother with a 3 year old jetta....think it might get used a bit.