[Closed] Molgrips car #4 - A New Hope

Footflaps's story is exactly what I'm afraid of.

My advice would be find a local tuner who can do custom remaps and has a rolling road (as they will know a lot more about ECUs than VAG dealers). I used AMD in Bicester, but they've since gone out of business and been bought up by someone else.

Yeah they're on my list. Tempted to do the 'give it back when it's fixed' thing too, but I'm convinced they'll either spend hours finding out what I already know or change half the car and then say 'dunno'.

Going to call http://the-ecu-doctor.co.uk/ today.

EDIT: I might offer to do them a new website in exchange for fixing my car 🙂

That's why you go to an ECU place with Rolling Road....

They can try things, test in situ etc.... instead of you going back and forth etc. You then know exactly where you are.

Just to get this right. I haven't read all so bear with me.
You take the car to a garage who buggered it.
Instead of taking it back to them to fix you take it to everyone and his brother who are struggling to diagnose what the first garage did. Maybe instead of posting on here about what it could be (which seems to take most of your time) just bloody take it back to the first garage and get them to fix it.
Or have I missed something?

[i]Or have I missed something? [/i]

yep.

Or have I missed something?

Yes, the months of me entreating him to fix it and being put off, at which point he admitted he knew f-all about electrics, couldn't help, and gave me the name of the specialist he went to.

So Trading Standards couldn't help?

Trading standards took my call and tut-tutted at the story.. I said I'd contact him asking for refunds first. I dunno if they can actually act though?

EDIT apparently they can.. hmm...

Not now you've gone to 30 other garages as who knows where the damage was done.

Not now you've gone to 30 other garages as who knows where the damage was done

I'm not repeating it all here but I know exactly what caused the issues and what was done.

iolo - I think if you can't even be arsed to read this thread and its predecessors there's no point leaping in on page 5 of this one and stirring things up further?

There's at least two versions of the wiring on ELSA for slightly different variants of the car, and Pierburg make a 4 and 5 pin version of the flap. The pin numbers I have from ELSA are quite different.

I'll say this again

it sounds like the ECU you have been given simply isn't matched to your car's wiring loom - wrong model or year or variant or something.

Until you have an ECU that matches your particular car's model & variant, all bets are off.

And for that reason, I'm out.

I know.. that's my conclusion also - either that or a fault.

Need to get back to Permoveo, but my chances of persuading them are pretty much nil because they are arseholes.

Molgrips have you tried any of the VW/AUDI forums like UKPassats ? Maybe someone's had the same issue.

I've combed the internet, not one single reference to these problems. Very few people get the exact same error about the flap, and if they do it's part of a longer list caused by wider electrical problems. Not one single reference to slow shifts.

At least, I couldn't find any.

Molly,

You need to forget about what you know, what's happend in the past, who's done what etc.

Take the car to a PROPER expert and say

"My car doesn't shift right since getting an ECU swap, can you check, diagnose and sort please"

then go home and wait 🙂

This probably is of no use whatsoever but - my car had the gearbox drained/removed during a flywheel replacement and when it came back it was slow to shift up (i.e. revved too high before shifting).
Took it back to the garage who said that it was probably gear oil level - they topped it up and it's been fine since.

The moral of this story is - how sure are you it's an electrical fault?

Hmm. I did think about oil level. I had a look in the box and it seemed ok, but I wasn't on flat ground.

Given you've said that though I might have another look. Or do a top-up based on the procedures online. But like I say, problem only happened when the ecu was changed, it'd done about 20k miles since the gearbox oil change without this problem.

It's slow both up and down btw.

Hmm. I did think about oil level. I had a look in the box and it seemed ok, but I wasn't on flat ground.

sorry but you do sound incompetent

Hence my previous comments that I got flamed on

sorry but you do sound incompetent

So do you.

we've reached that level now have we? 🙄

You're the one telling me I'm incompetent without any evidence.

I had a look in the transmission case on a slight slope, to check the oil condition. I merely happened to mention that it was not obviously underfilled.

You're the one telling me I'm incompetent without any evidence.

Best thing Moly, bugger off and get it sorted however you see fit. When it's done, come back and let us all know what magic was weaved.

There's little point in this continuing as it's currently just a vehicle for your debating skills...

I just posted for anyone who's interested in what happened with the car. Got some good technical posts and some good advice, which is appreciated. But people seem to like to tell me how stupid I am too.

There's little point in this continuing as it's currently just a vehicle for your debating skills...

and this thread has turned into a mass-debate.

I feel it should come to its end

Yeah but it's not really going anywhere is it? You've got a couple of ideas (mostly based on using someone who knows what they're doing - well duh!). You just need to either sell it, live with it or fix it.

You don't want to sell it, fair enough.

You say you want to fix it.

So you've either mastered the skills etc via this journey of discovery or you need to use an 'expert'. Choose one and crack on.

There's not much more to it is there?

Amen boblo

Oh.. no.. I should not have looked....

2007 Skoda Superb 2.5 [b]V6[/b] TDI £5,995

❗

tbh Moly I do have some sympathy as I believe it is usually cheaper/better to repair something you know than to buy something new, but now and again it is better just to get rid.

I ran a m/c past 50k, bought it new and loved it. But when I look back the cost after 35k meant it would've been cheaper just to have bought a new one. In the last two years I've swapped out 2 cars due to the cost to fix (autobox on one and 2 pages of MOT failures/advisories on the other); but then I buy at the end of the market that lets me 'walk' when I need to. Plus always pay cash so no finance issues.

I'd get rid if I was you.

A poorly matched ECU is not indicative of recurring mechanical issues though is it?

There's little point in this continuing as it's currently just a vehicle for [s]your debating skills...[/s] [i]a mob mentality to develop and just have a pop at someone because others have[/i]

FIFY

Take the car to a PROPER expert and say

These Experts you refer to don't work in garages, they work in VAG development in Germany and you can't just take your car to them. Having been in the same situation, it's very hard to find anyone who can properly diagnose ECU problems as the tools don't exist outside of the manufacturer's R&D teams.

Don't be silly Ben, we were just going round in circles. Moly likes to ask for feedback and then forensically examine it to the death. In this case the choices are limited. That's all.

BTW, I don't need you to fix my posts thanks, I'll look after them myself.

<edit> and if it's impossible to get to someone who knows about ECU's (I don't subscribe to this BTW) and Moly doesn't want to put up with the issue, that just leaves one choice. No?

Do these experts read this forum? If not there's not much point talking any more about it.
Leave it somewhere with the keys in. The neighborhood should be as rough as possible.

BTW, I don't need you to fix my posts thanks, I'll look after them myself.

Interesting double standards, fine to have a pop at Molly, but someone makes a comment on one of your posts and that's just not cricket....

[i]A poorly matched ECU is not indicative of recurring mechanical issues though is it? [/i]

Its nothing to do with the reason, just cash - that is all that matters.

Cash and aggravation. One usually resolves the other.

My point is that the ecu issue is no reason to assume the car will cost me more money down the line.

PS thanks footflaps 🙂

My point is that the ecu issue is no reason to assume the car will cost me more money down the line.

Your point is incorrect. That is not a safe assumption to make.

I struggle with long sentences but I did see A1 Diagnostics quoted...The garage on Sloper Road?

Dodgy as a very dodgy thing IMHO, will never go back there again

Glupton. I didn't make an assumption, I was refuting assumptions.

Sinsir - why? This seems to be the same everywhere I go. You can never be sure.

Took car in to get A/C recharge using groupon voucher. They inevitably found something wrong which I had no way of verifying and so I had to pay up, and when I collected the car it was only running on 3 cylinders. They patched it up only for it to run like a dog again only a mile from the garage.

May be coincidence and unfair of me to criticize, but I wont be going back there again

Hm. Well They did what I asked of then this time which was ok.

Anyway, topped up the transmission fluid, it took a couple of hundred mls of fluid but it made bugger all difference.

They did what you asked of them and it made no difference?

Well, the main thing I wanted to check was the software version. He updated it, and he ruled out a few other things.

[i]tbh Moly I do have some sympathy as I believe it is usually cheaper/better to repair something you know than to buy something new, but now and again it is better just to get rid.[/i]

At least I took my own advice today.

Looking for a new car for Mrs b r and we went and test-drove the one she fancies. While away they put her car in the workshop for a quick check to get a p/x price. When we got back the Saleman asked whether we knew of anything wrong with it. Yep, it's making odd noises that we (and our local garage) can't trace.

Torque-converter is on its way out...

Ah.

So a deal was done and I reckon its cost us an extra £500 over a 'possible' deal we could've got if our p/x had been trouble-free (for year). Plus the MOT (£50 plus any fixes) and tax (£450!) were due next month - so quits really.

Current car bought new and run for 7 years and 110k, so as long as she keeps this as long it'll be fine.

Mols, I think you are at where I was about a year ago: You've finally fallen out of love with Passats!
I got my first Passat in '89; what a pleasure it was to own a well engineered product, after having had Peugots; Ok, maybe they didn't drive as well but at least the ancillaries weren't designed by the boy that gets sent out to buy the morning croissants!
Three Passats later however and the shine has finally worn off: Yes they are solid and well engineered, but they always build in really stupid design features that ruin an otherwise good package.
In my last one (01 TDI) it was the ridiculous front suspension that needed replacing every 18 months, the injector wiring that wasn't heat resistant despite being sat in the cylinder head, and worst of all, the issue with being unable to cope with heavy rain (the plenum chamber drainage holes were hidden under the battery and servo; you couldn't even clear them by feel!). This resulted in a rotted through servo (water sucked into engine), engine computer underwater and almost drowned ECU in passenger footwell.
So when the new model came out (06?) and I realized that they had replaced the handbrake with an electric one (that failed in 25% of cases)that cost a bomb to fix and was the ultimate solution in search of a problem (plus, my son would be unable to learn to drive in it as you have to do your test in a car with a proper handbrake)...this was the moment when I lost my loyalty to the VW badge and went Japanese!

At least I took my own advice today.

Looking for a new car for Mrs b r and we went and test-drove the one she fancies. While away they put her car in the workshop for a quick check to get a p/x price. When we got back the Saleman asked whether we knew of anything wrong with it. Yep, it's making odd noises that we (and our local garage) can't trace.

Torque-converter is on its way out...

Ah.

So a deal was done and I reckon its cost us an extra £500 over a 'possible' deal we could've got if our p/x had been trouble-free (for year). Plus the MOT (£50 plus any fixes) and tax (£450!) were due next month - so quits really.

Current car bought new and run for 7 years and 110k, so as long as she keeps this as long it'll be fine

And there's a man who knows what makes sense in the world.

Sometimes it's easier to just dump the lemon on a dealer (your choice as to how honest you are) and get something else.

I actually love the car, which is partly why I want it to work. I don't really want to sell it. I am gonna phone the guy on Monday, tell him he broke my car so he is going to have to fix it.

Yes, but the love is not reciprocated; you are always going to get your feelings hurt...or your wallet anyway!

As I said, a numpty fitted wrong ecu does not a lemon make.

If you know its the wrong ECU why are you still messing about getting things done?

I'm lost now. When did you find this part out?

[img] [/img]

Weeksy, it is not known if the ecu issue is causing the gearbox issue. Had to rule out fluid level as a potential cause.

I had a golf that did this to me, endless garages, opinions and flipping fault readers. Took it to a 2nd hand car place in a different county added £500 and drove away in a different car. The weight lifting from my shoulders as I drove home was palpable.

I saw it on the road again so I presume they fixed it.

How highly do you value your mental well being? Things like this get you down, don't give them space in your life if you can help it.

No email response from the guy, so I called him. He was apparently in the process of replying to me.. hmm..

He insists that he was told the ECU was water damaged, and that the reception girl at Permoveo has made up this story about the ECU being fine. He claims to have a recording of the conversation, I've given him a week to find it. It's apparently on his Tab (I'm sure it was an iPad originally) but it has problems charging, see, so he might have a bit of trouble finding it...

My chin seems itchy this morning...

update ?

This story has got more suspense that the Humber Bridge. Molgrips, WHAT IS GOING ON??????

Texted him today, will call later. He's definitely stalling, no question.

May go to Permoveo and ask if they have an invoice for the diagnostic fee he claims to have paid. Which, if true, would explain the difference in what he charged me and what they charged him.

explain it or not - pursue that line of offence in any court in the land you WILL lose .

Don't worry, it's not my line of offence. I'll be going for either 'reasonable competence' or deceit depending on what I can find out. If anything.

Will any of that get your car humming along?

Put the fire out; then check who's holding the matches.

you don't seem to be moving things along much fella ?

1 week and you sent a text ? HAve you given up caring ?

1 week and you sent a text ? HAve you given up caring ?

You do know he's been [url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/gta-v-1/page/5 ]playing GTA V[/url] do you not?

I told him I'd give him a week, it's been a week (ish) so I'm due a call.

If you do go down the legal route, you quite often get the other side conceding when you send the Letter before Action and it never gets to court. I got £2k back from a holiday company which stole it from me after a few letters. On the day I was to issue the writ they folded.

Was that small claims or.. big claims court?

The complication here is that it's not clear who is actually at fault.

Was that small claims or.. big claims court?

Small claims court, the sum was £1859.

The complication here is that it's not clear who is actually at fault.

Doesn't actually matter what you (or STW) think. If you do get to court, it will be the Magistrate's opinion that matters and nothing else. Given you can only lose the fixed summons fee, it's quite a low risk option.

I don't mean if it's me or him that's at fault, I mean is it the specialist or the mobile mechanic?

I don't know the legality of it, but I only have a contract with the mobile guy. If his story is true then I can't take him to court because he's done nothing wrong.

I don't know the legality of it, but I only have a contract with the mobile guy.

So he's the only one you have a legitimate case against. Whether or not he subcontracted and got screwed it irrelevant. He can also sue his subcontractor etc....

Useful references:

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/consumer_w/consumer_taking_action_e/consumer_legal_actions_e/consumer_going_to_court_e/before_you_take_someone_to_court/step_one_write_a_letter_before_action.htm

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/action/letter-before-small-claims-court-claim/

Here is an example which got me my money back eventually (took two more letters).

[url= http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7293/9470795037_bced5ac9ca_z.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7293/9470795037_bced5ac9ca_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/9470795037/ ]Letter before court action against MotorHolme.co.uk[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/brf/ ]brf[/url], on Flickr

[quote=mboy]I do sometimes laugh at the people who are [b]so scared of having a car go wrong in their lives that they will happily pay £400 a month for the privilege of a brand new car[/b], but then the flipside is that in running an older car, you have to be prepared that once in a while it might break down and cost a bit of money.

Most people I know prefer to buy a new car on finance for this reason.

My colleague bought a [bottom spec trim] '09 Clio [12k] (around £8500 after finance!!).... he still gets car-envy when he sits in our [top spec trim] '04 TT [54k]... and we paid £5200...

I'd have spent about ooh, £9,000 on a new version of the car I have, and it'd still be basically the same now. So if I spend less than £8,000 fixing this mess I'm still ahead 🙂

I get car envy of my neighbour's mint 535d which is the same age as mine and cost the same (cos he bought it more recently of course).

PLus the fact that his actually works ?

🙂

This is why I liked cars in the good old days.

Pretty much anyone could fix anything with a Haynes manual and a cheap set of spanners from the Kays catalogue.

So if I spend less than £8,000 fixing this mess I'm still ahead

Manmaths fail.

If you had taken your car to an expert in the first place you'd be biffing around in your car moaning how much it had cost.

Rather than limping around in a lame duck trying to go legal on their asses.

Is it still not fixed then?

[i]So if I spend less than £8,000 fixing this mess I'm still ahead [/i]

So if you spend £6000 fixing it will it be worth the same in 2 years time as the £9000 car?

dangerousbeans - Member

This is why I liked cars in the good old days.

Pretty much anyone could fix anything with a Haynes manual and a cheap set of spanners from the Kays catalogue.

Ditto this. I used to live by my Haynes manuals. Now, they don't make them for my T4, and I don't have time to work on my little run-about. 🙁