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I found a place who listened to my story and promised to have an intelligent look at the car and talk to me in detail about what we've both found out, rather than just lob parts at it and charge me. Currently sitting in their waiting room.
The ECU expert (I dunno if I need quotes on that or not) has not yet looked at it but apparently someone has read the codes and already told me I need a new DSG clutch and a new EGR valve.. Grr.. not looking hopeful...
Place your bets folks!
Is this the same car? Fair play, I'd have set fire to it long ago. Why not chop it in for something less problematic?
What car is it? if its a renault just scrap it!
Why not chop it in for something less problematic?
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😀
If you need a second opinion I have a very good vw/ german marques specialist in Cwmcarn I can give you details of.
(answering you mail re. bushes too 😉 )
The problem isn't with the car, it's with the idiot mechanic who messed it up.
Loco - that could be useful, this is a complicated ECU issue so if he's clever and well equipped I'm interested.
no the problems with you .....mechanic doesnt own the cart , you have to live with it.
good luck.
The problem is with what the original mechanic did, to be more specific 🙂 Good luck - thanks I'm definitely going to need it by the look of things...
Have you persued the idiot mechanic yet??
Nah not yet.. took me a while to pluck up the balls, but I thought I'd wait to see what happened today too, give me a bit more ammo.
molgrips, you have taken far too long to take the original "mechanic" to task over this.
Didnt the original problem start Dec last year?
I've also got a mate who specialises in auto electrics. Bristol based.
Yeah more or less.
New mechanic is going to try re-flashing the gearbox software.. good...
What was the car, Molgrips? I currently have one with a DSG. (mine being the DSG7 with a dry clutch)
Rachel
Mine's a 2006 Passat TDI with the 6 speed wet clutch version.
Molgrips, have you thought of buying a fault code reader?
I bought one for about £10 off ebay - with a little internet searching, diagnosed a coolant sensor on the Skoda and a faulty EGR valve on the Fiat - managed to change that myself, parts cost £60ish.
If you know what the previous mechanic did (which by the sounds of it you do) why dont tell the guys at the new garage what he did?, it would mean that they could go straight to the problem?. Ultimately that would save you time and thus money although personally i'd get shut and save the hassle.
I'm sure that was part of the conversation.
Any mechanic would actually take the time to investigate for themselves though because you just can't trust what others have done.
this is a complicated ECU issue
=
Run away, run away fast!
I have VCDS, it tells me what's wrong (with one part of it at least) but doesn't allow me to fix it. These guys have Autologic which allows software flashing so that might fix it.
If you know what the previous mechanic did (which by the sounds of it you do) why dont tell the guys at the new garage what he did?
I did, part of the reason I've come here (A1 Diagnostics of Cardiff) is that they were prepared to supply an electronics specialist who'd talk to me, he understood what I'd said, agreed with my ideas and said he'd keep me informed as he worked - and he has so far.
Run away, run away fast!
Ok, who wants to buy a car with an ECU problem? Anyone? No-one?
Ok then.
Whereabouts are you Molgrips ?
Can put you in touch with 2 or 3 very good people with the correct VAG dealer software, my Next door but 1 neighbour does a lot of VAG Diagnostics for the local garages.
Another independent with 2 ex VAG Main dealer Senior Techs who are very good too.
And a couple of others locally (East Anglia)
I'm in Cardiff, but if this keeps up I will happily drive to East Anglia to get it sorted!
Ok, who wants to buy a car with an ECU problem? Anyone? No-one?
I sold my wifes Micra with an ecu so knackered it wouldn't even start. I only got £300 less for it than Ford would have given me in PX for it running.
Right but how much would I have to spend on a new car whose history I didn't know? 2, 3, 4k? If this repair comes in under that I'm laughing aren't I?
Who is that then LoCo??? Bijou deal with Citroen and Peugeot and are excellent, not cheap but their workshop was cleaner than my house 😳
Well that depends on how much your car is worth in perfect working order.
I dunno, 2006 Passat 2.0 TDI SE auto 90k miles.
EGR valve isn't that big a deal, surely?
New clutch, bit more of a mouthful to swallow, though.
So what exactly did the idiot first mechanic do to the car, how has it ended up needing a reflash of gearbox software?
About £3800 if its in good nick.
The thing is with cars that start to go wrong its not just the money that is the problem its the inconvenience. I would rather pay £250 a month for a new car safe in the knowledge of how much it will cost me every month and that if it does go wrong it is most likely a warranty job. I hate the thought of my car keeping on going wrong when I need to be at work and having to take days off to get it sorted.
EGR easy to sort - just make a blanking plate with an old coke can and blank it off (between the valve and the plenum).
Clear all the s**t out of the plenum and you're good to go - plus you'll get better response and better mpg. It may throw up an internal error but it shouldn't cause any dash warnings.
Has it been the faulty DSG that's been limiting your overtaking performance Molegrips 😉
The thing is with cars that start to go wrong its not just the money that is the problem its the inconvenience. I would rather pay £250 a month for a new car safe in the knowledge of how much it will cost me every month and that if it does go wrong it is most likely a warranty job. I hate the thought of my car keeping on going wrong when I need to be at work and having to take days off to get it sorted.
On the other hand (my car's about the same age) I'd rather not think that it was losing £250 a month in depreciation just sat on the driveway, and that breakdowns are statisticaly unlikely (in our house we've had our current cars for 5 and 3 years, with one malfunctioning sensor costing £150 in ~90,000miles).
Has it been the faulty DSG that's been limiting your overtaking performance Molegrips
Yep, it's the fact the box won't change that means I'm able to jump up the queue!
Back to seriousness, if the blokes still looking at it, you've already got a £250 bill coming! I'd crash it on the way home if I were you...
EGR easy to sort - just make a blanking plate with an old coke can and blank it off (between the valve and the plenum).
coke can! wtf I wouldn't want metal shards flying into the turbo. as the can disintegrates.
3mm steel plate minimum
tinas, I prefer to think of it as using value instead of loosing value. I can sleep better at night thinking about spending money to keep having a reliable newish car than I can worrying if it will break down leaving me with a big bill.
I have had my Focus from new and only the coil pack and the battery have ever caused a problem. It was 6 years old at the weekend and ticked over 100000 miles at the same time. I am concerned that the clutch or something else major will die soon and as such I am on the hunt for a new car.
The car isn't 'keeping going wrong'. An idiotic mechanic told me I needed a new ECU when I didn't, new ECU is either faulty or the wrong hardware version, not sure which.
Nothing wrong with the EGR valve, the problem is either wiring, hardware version, or a hardware fault.
Gearbox problem is either some kind of restricted mode caused by the EGR problem or it's something going on with the oil or the clutch plates. I haven't checked the oil yet.
Cost me £156 to have an electronics expert (who was pretty decent actually) agree with me, and update the gearbox and engine software.
Aaah, so does it all work properly now then?
Nope. No-one can figure out what's wrong with it. Not me, not the ecu guy, not the guy on the VAG tech support line.
Bargain at £156 then!
I live for molgrips car threads....
seriously do your self a favour.
Ebay - no reserve GET SHOT
I fail to see how that's the cheapest option trail rat.
What exactly is the problem?
Sounds like you took the car to a muppet who took an expensive shot in the dark which went wrong. You are now trying to turn a washing machine into a washing machine by throwing money at it. You are confusing people who dont appear to want to tell you that you cant have a washing machine that is solely a tumble dryer. They are now going to try and fix your washer dryer - is that a fair account?
Flog the crap you've got and buy a Miele.
i fail to see how its not.
right now your throwing money at it with no end in sight - right now the cost is infinate - and it probably still wont work.
i fail to see how my options not the cheapest option , its called cutting your losses.
You were given some good advice by myself and others about the problems in your previous thread!
Did you follow any of it?
What exactly is the problem?
Well if he knew that ..... etc
renton - Member
You were given some good advice by myself and others about the problems in your previous thread!Did you follow any of it?
Don't be silly, this is Moly. These threads are more inellectual exercise than decision making process... 🙂
Try a defibrillator
as you guessed I have no idea, bit like where your car is 🙄
Have you tried a bike fit?
There's an indy VAG place near me Molgrips. (Lichfield).
Called Mckenzies.
I've no experience of them myself but a phone call is only a few pence.
You never know...
There's also a pretty clued up chap on the Ford Galaxy owners club website, who works for an Audi dealership in Stafford. I'm just thinking, it being VAG etc. I think they ask you to donate a small amount to join & post/message etc, but if you drop me an email I could send the chap a message for you. FGOC.co.uk
Thanks folks. Renton I did follow your advice, problem is that the only way of finding out what ECU part I have is the sticker on the unit, and it's partially scratched off!
Current thinking is that there is a fault inside this ECU, based on what this guy and VAG support said.
Trail rat - if I buy a new ecu I am £500 down. If I buy a new car I am £5,000 down. Still don't see it.
Did you speak to the dealer as I suggested in your other thread.
DOH EDIT IGNORE ME !!!
and you are guaranteed an ECU will fix it ? if so what you still fannying around for ?
if it doesnt youll be 500 quid down and still have a ****y car.
£656 plus other fixes so far with no certainty.... But I do see why you are persevering, it's just I wouldn't.
I'd be looking for a cheaper way to put winter tyres on it if I were you to cut some costs.
and you are guaranteed an ECU will fix it ?
I can buy a shitload of parts and still be better off than if I bought a new car trail rat.
I am fannying about to make sure that it really is the ECU and to see if I can get it fixed for less than £500.
could also buy a shit load of parts for less than 5k and still have a driveway ornament + have to spend 5k on a new car.
only worth persevering if its a classic that deserves saving imo. this is a passat like many of the other hundreds of thousands on the road (except this ones broken)
your passats been more hassle in the last year than my 1000 pound frontera which needs a set of tires to keep it legal for the next year;)
It's not helping him! I am the same, I've spent a grand around 4 years ago due to a dodgy abs pump that the mechanics thought were at fault at the wheels.. cost about 300-400 more than it should have but I kept going til it was sorted. I started so I had no intentions of quitting. Glad I did as it's done thousands of miles since. Good luck with finding the right person. Maybe joining a vw forum/passat forum might help a bit?
No officer, I've no idea how it happened. It may have been the ECU...
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That's it! You need to park it on Fenchurch street,London.
Molgrips, have you tried contacting a Tuning / Remap company (Not a VAG Specialist)? They interrogate and rewrite ECU's and as such they should be able to create an ECU code from your chassis number (Which gives the Vehicle Specification). As long as your ECU is good they can re-code it correctly, oh and you may have more performance / economy too.
The quick way would be to email one of the sponsors on any VW / Audi Forum that provides remapping services.
could also buy a shit load of parts for less than 5k and still have a driveway ornament
It still drives. I can't afford a new car, I'm not spending thousands of pounds to save hundreds. Your logic is rubbish. So stop it!
Konastoner - yeah.. that's a good idea, I just have no idea where to find a really good knowledgable outfit who's willing to help me fix my non-fast car, rather than some dodgy boy racer outfit who won't be interested unless I want moor powerz. I'll have a look at one of the forums, ta.
You're missing the point that when you buy the new car, you actually SELL this one...
So you may lose £500 not £5000 as you've sold your PoS car that doesn't work properly.
[i]You're missing the point that when you buy the new car, you actually SELL this one...
So you may lose £500 not £5000 as you've sold your PoS car that doesn't work properly.
[/i]
That kind of logic won't work with Moly, as he's already 'decided' what the answer is. 🙂
He could have been anyone of a number of Managers I've had over the years...
I think the issue is;
Would fixing the car make it sell for more than the cost of the repair (if you were to sell it) than selling as is?
So if unfixed it would trade in for £X and fixed it would go for £X+£500 then it's worth spending no more than £500 fixing it. Otherwise, logically, you should just walk away.
But then there's the emotional 'I won't be beaten by this' thing that we all do that spoils it.
The thing is though there's the extra expense of a new car. They aren't free.
what was the original problem with the car, before the idiot mechanic did the unnecessary ECU swap?
was that the gearbox oil (possibly) problem, with gearbox doing some limp-home mode?
Original problem was crazy electrical weirdness like brake lights staying on when the car was off and the engine not stopping when I got out and locked it.
It was caused by water in the trailer control module in the boot. I found this out and fixed it myself after having been fobbed off and given the run around for months by the mechanic.
Gearbox was fine until the ecu was changed. I checked the oil last night incidentally, it's still runny and it's also quite pale in colour still which is good.
So, youre initial issue was a result of CAN bus errors, caused by water ingress into the TrCM. This had a knock on effect (due to the CAN data corruption) into other control modules. I assume the TCU was changed erroneously because the transmission was going into limp mode when it "lost" its CAN data exchange.
There is, in reality, unlikely to be a fault with the "new" ecu (assuming it is roughly of the correct type. All these modules are now "coded" to your car, and that includes the firmware (the operating instructions) and the calibration (the operating variables) data. These devices are also fully 'adaptive' and aim to learn your driving style and modify their shift points etc to suit you. As such, if this adaptive data has not been properly reset, the TCU may do funny things, or if the coding is incorrect, it may also not operate exactly as before.
If it were my car, i'd want to have the following done:
1) an independent review of the CAN data to ensure the bus is viable (using software that records the raw data stream and identifies arbitration and bit errors)
2) Talk to VW Uk to identify the exact variant coding for your car
3) Get the TCU flashed with this s/w and the adaptive tables cleared
4) Once 'fixed" data log some important parameters to validate the fix is working!
molgrips - Member
The thing is though there's the extra expense of a new car. They aren't free.
You buy the new car for the exact same price you sell the rubbish one for.... therefore theres's no extra expense ?
You're more intelligent than this usually.
Two options for you to try, I have worked with both and was very happy.
Pendle Performance. VAG ecu specialist. Writes his own software, owns a rolling road for development. Highly regarded on the VW T4/5 forum. Ask for Martin. He id dpf removal development on my T5.
Shark Performance, as above. Mapped a Skoda VRs for me.
Both have agents across the uk and both know a hell of a lot about ecu's.
Good luck and with car electrics, I feel your pain.. !
Just goes to show, electrical systems in cars are now far too complex for the average garage to diagnose and fix.
So, do I have this right, its a little confusing to me still, all the electrical weirdness has now stopped, but you are left with an ecu (which may or may not be compatible with your particular model of passat) which is causing the gearbox control to be sub-optimal?
Basically yes. There are two problems - one is that it insists there's a short to ground on the inlet manifold flap position sensor, which there isn't; and the gearbox shifts slowly. But there are no gearbox fault codes.
You buy the new car for the exact same price you sell the rubbish one for.... therefore theres's no extra expense ?
Well there are a few issues with that.
1) I've had my car a while, I know it's had a good life, I know it's been driven well and not abused, and I know it's had new injectors recently (a recall).
2) I really really hate shopping around for cars privately. I mean really. I'm bad at it, and I'm likely to be ripped off one way or another.
3) How the hell do I sell a car that's not working properly? Lie?
That's it! You need to park it on Fenchurch street,London
Probably be cheaper to buy a new car.
As I have said before; I would get the engine problems fixed before spending any time/effort sorting the gearbox problems. You may well find that the slow shifting is due to problems with the engine. I presume that it is the upshifts that are slow? The bit of the upshift which I suspect you are saying is slow will be the time taken for the engine speed to reduce from the speed in the start gear, to the speed of the new gear. This speed reduction is done by the gearbox telling the engine to reduce its torque. If the engine does not / cannot reduce its torque sufficiently, you will get a slow shift. If there is a fault with the engine, then it may restrict the amount of torque reduction that is available to the gearbox. The engine tells the gearbox how much it can reduce the torque (from which it would be able to calculate the 'shift speed') so it may be the case that the gearbox has no fault codes, because as far as it is concerned, it is operating within the confines of the parameters available to it.
An ECU change may be the best bet (if you have had a reflash), but I would say that the best people to ensure that you get the correct model ECU and ECU software / calibration would be a VW garage. I'd be surprised if a 3rd party had access to all the detailed info about the spec of your car that VW UK would (although I could be wrong).
I have a lot of experience of the transmission on your car (DQ250), so whilst I'm not claiming to be an expert and to know exactly what is wrong with it whilst sat at my PC, and that I know best, that is my advice to you.
3) How the hell do I sell a car that's not working properly? Lie?
We buy any car dot com 🙂
I understand your thoughts, your logic and even some of your processes. But there comes a time when you just throw in the towel and cut your losses, even if you get hurt a little at the time. Otherwise you're there fretting, worrying and having abusive conversations with people for week after week, month after month and STILL the car doesn't work right... then you go through it again the month after.
PErsonally... i'd cut my losses, take the hit and walk into a new/replacement car.
As I have said before; I would get the engine problems fixed before spending any time/effort sorting the gearbox problems.
Thanks for a good post bamboo, I think you are right. The VAG support said that whilst it was possible that the ecu problem was causing the dsg to be in 'restricted' mode he'd never seen it happen. But yes I think I should do as you say.
Up and downshifts are both slow. It seems to be taking a long time for the new clutch to engage, and as you say the rest of the gearbox seems to be adjusting to deal with that. When downshifting in manual mode, the car ends up in neutral for a second before slipping the clutch into the new gear exactly as if you were slowing down gently driving a manual.
I keep thinking of things it could be - bad gearbox oil, worn clutches etc, but the fact remains it only started when the ecu was changed, and it's remained consistent every since withouth degrading.
My current theory is that there's a fault in the ECU itself that was not picked up by the suppliers - the short to ground on the flap position sensor is actually inside the ECU - it's certainly not outside it. I've tested the wiring with a continuity tester, one lead clamped to the engine and touching the other on each pin in turn. One is connected to ground, but it's the brown one so it's meant to be.
I tried tackling the suppliers originally, because the part had a 12 month guarantee, but they seriously fobbed me off. They said that the guarantee did not apply because the original fault had not been fixed before the ecu was fitted. This is clearly bullshit because the original fault was not related to this current fault in any way. The other issue is that my contract and hence the guarantee is not with them, it's with the mechanic.
Can you not buy/borrow a known good correct ECU and then fit it, test and either sell back on or give back to who you borrow it from ?
Ah yes, WBAC.. how COULD I forget 🙂
£2,785.
Can you not buy/borrow a known good correct ECU and then fit it, test and either sell back on or give back to who you borrow it from ?
Nah, it has to be exactly set up for my exact car.
Depends on your morals then for selling to a dealer 🙂
It isn't unheard of that the physical ECU can cause a problem that causes a false diagnosis; I'd really be looking getting the ECU changed if you can. If you are going to go to the expense of changing the ECU, doing it by a reputable source (i.e. VW) is likely to be your best bet.
You could try swapping your ECU as weeksy suggests, but you may find that there are software routines that match the ECU to the car, so doing this may not work and could muddy the waters further. I'm not 100% sure on this point though; I write the control algorithms and don't get involved in that type of stuff if I can help it.