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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62123886
So pleased this is finally out there. I really do hope it ruffles a few feathers and gets some preconceptions checked. Can't wait for the full documentary.
Wow!!
Holy Shit!
I look forward to seeing the documentary.
Agreed convert.
Perfect timing to release the story now.
Priti Patel's piss will be boiling at this news
Preconceptions? Like we should let anyone from around the world freely move here?
That's a terrible idea even if some of these immigrants get knighthoods.
Priti Patel’s piss will be boiling at this news
I would be surprised if it is ever not boiling.
Very interested in watching the documentary.
Preconceptions? Like we should let anyone from around the world freely move here?
That’s a terrible idea even if some of these immigrants get knighthoods.
Preconceptions?
Preconceptions about those who live amongst us, contribute greatly, and yet came here originally illegally.
Will definitely be watching this.
The need for immigration control does not hinge on prejudice against people wanting to migrate here.
Preconceptions?
That illegal immigrants is a byword for a drain on the system without worth.
Preconceptions?
That all illegal immigrates are here of their own free will to take advantage of our benevolence.
The need for immigration control does not hinge on prejudice against people wanting to migrate here.
Blah, blah, blah. Talk to yourself.
This is an interesting tale of an illegal immigrant (through no fault of their own) that has become a national icon. Talk about that instead.
@klevin
Trying to generalise from a particular is just bad logic. In fact, it's just propaganda in this instance.
Enjoy your strawmen.
The need for immigration control does not hinge on prejudice against people wanting to migrate here.
What does it hinge on, then?
Priti Patel’s piss will be boiling at this news
She'll probably being trying to deport him as we type.
What does it hinge on, then?
Deep down we all know the answer to that.
🙁
Rawanda will take him!
Rawanda will take him!
For a fee
So he came in illegally, but I assume now has full uk citizenship, and has a knighthood rather than an honorary knighthood?
Great advert for why you should try and still get in to the uk illegally
Still good on him I guess Boris Johnson will be proud
The need for immigration control does not hinge on prejudice against people wanting to migrate here.
There should be no need for immigration control anywhere. I am born into the world and at time of birth happen to be in a certain place (you have to be somewhere). Where I choose to live on the world should be up to me and everybody born into the world should have the same choice. People will then move around as they fancy, just as they move around within a country (or say the EU, remember that). Countries would balance out - badly governed countries would empty out, well governed countries would have higher populations etc,.
Open your mind a bit...
@kerley your utopian view is very much removed from the rest of the worlds view
Every country has boarders and you need documents to cross them. To cross boarders you need in reality to be rich.
Let alone the environmental cost of what you suggest.
Looking forward to the story. It'll tie a few racists into even more contorted knots, and out a few others I should think.
That link above - is to the same source (Conservative Woman) as the last anti vax troll cited on the tennis thread before the Mods sensibly took it down. I'd not heard of them before then - but WTF! Who's behind that?
I painted this, call "Borderline Madness" to show the stupidity of artificial borders drawn across a single entity purely for the sake of borders.
It is amazing to hear people discussing it when I exhibit it. Some agree with my perspective that the borders are there to give people a reason for border disputes and armies while others argue that it is the perfect illustration of why we need borders.
It seems that whatever your initial viewpoint or prejudice, the image supports your argument.
What awful world we live in that trafficking of children (or any human) exists. Even more so that some think the answer is to reduce free movement.
Preconceptions? Like we should let anyone from around the world freely move here?
Given that at least two Tory ministers were children of migrants, I think we do need to be more careful who we let in 😜
Great advert for why you should try and still get in to the uk illegally
He was trafficked. As a child. There are all sorts of reasons why people end up with an “illegal” immigration status. I really wish we could change our language here, as it has been deliberately chosen for us to make people sound like they have all chosen to break the law… that they are criminals… when many either have little choice or are victims of crime and exploitation.
Home Office have said what shouldn’t need saying…
https://twitter.com/pippacrerar/status/1546627909405884418?s=21
Countries would balance out – badly governed countries would empty out, well governed countries would have higher populations etc,.
How is the UK going to find homes, infrastructure and jobs to absorb the potentially almost infinite number of people who could come here? Can you imagine the chaos? How is the government supposed to ever plan ahead?
What you neglect to say is that well-governed countries would fill up until they become as uninhabitable as the third-world countries people are escaping from. Do you want that?
I painted this, call “Borderline Madness” to show the stupidity of artificial borders drawn across a single entity purely for the sake of borders.
Borders are no more 'artificial' than laws against murder or the existence of money. Consider that they can be no true freedom without the laws that flow from a political community. There would only be chaos and anarchy instead. Without states how could we have political communities able to establish laws? With total freedom of movement these states would be more like hostels filled with transients. What are the consequences for the political community?
Without states how could we have political communities able to establish laws?
Without states and borders ultimately we'd only need one government and one set of laws.
That would make for an interesting election campaign.
Wow what a revelation. I imagine he's had briefing and possibly discussions with the Home Office before announcing this but it still strikes me as a very brave thing to do! It's a fascinating story but I'm not sure he'll get well-treated in the press, to their shame.
I can imagine there are some very upset gammons who, as an additional cherry on top, find it immensely irritating that they can't really get mad without seeming racist.
I can imagine there are some very upset gammons who, as an additional cherry on top, find it immensely irritating that they can’t really get mad without seeming racist.
the fail comment section on this is so predictable and so depressing.
Imagine being the child victim of trafficking and modern slavery, then spending decades here building a life, a family, a prestigious career, all the time knowing that someone could discover your 'secret' and tear everything down? And that your success and fame makes that more likely.
the fail comment section on this is so predictable and so depressing.
Ooh, can we do Bingo
"I never liked him anyway"
"I always said he wasn't really Bri'ish"
"You can't trust 'em" (leaving it plausibly deniable what is meant by 'them')
Did you miss my question from last night, Cakeface?
How is the UK going to find homes, infrastructure and jobs to absorb the potentially almost infinite number of people who could come here?
By importing builders, plumbers, electricians...
How is the UK going to find homes, infrastructure and jobs to absorb the potentially almost infinite number of people who could come here?
Almost infinite?
Imagine being the child victim of trafficking and modern slavery, then spending decades here building a life, a family, a prestigious career, all the time knowing that someone could discover your ‘secret’ and tear everything down? And that your success and fame makes that more likely.
Mo Farah was one of the lucky ones, he had people who saw the issues and reported it, he was fostered and then became a British Citizen legally with the help and assistance of those around him, so although he wasn't telling the country, the appropriate authorities and people knew years ago.
The sad thing is, if Mo hadn't been helped along the way, what could have happened, there's thousands who are on the other side of this issue who have been torn away from their families, forced into modern slavery and no happy ending for them. This is the real story, it's always nice to hear stories with happy endings, but effort is required to make them happen more often.
Almost infinite?
The chances of anyone coming from Mars are a million to one, or so I've heard.
How is the UK going to find homes, infrastructure and jobs to absorb the potentially almost infinite number of people who could come here?
By importing builders, plumbers, electricians…
Don't have to import them ready made, we can give them the skills through their life, for all the negativity about the UK, we do have the ability to train people to be what they want, if they want to do it and are willing to put in the effort.
As for immigration, UK births are moving downwards, it might not be obvious just now, but in another generation, if things continue the way they are, we will be reducing, and have that ageing population without the adequate numbers of younger people.
Next up, prospective tory leaders queuing up to appear to tough on Mo.
@argee - have you any idea how many poor people live in the third world and how rapidly their populations are growing? Nigeria alone, for example, will have about 400 million by 2050.
Don't worry Cake, no one is going to insist on 400 million Nigerians living in your spare room... you can stop being so concerned about it. Have a chill. Just watch the programme with the rest of us...
The idea of no border is nice, and one I tend to agree with.
If you are really interested in that youse better get your socialist hats on though, cause it ain't ever going to work under the current systems.
It'll only really work if there's something approaching a parity in GDP and standard of living that is common across all countries or atleast the vast majority of them.
So nice idea, but the necessary conditions aren't there yet.
Mo Farah was one of the lucky ones, he had people who saw the issues and reported it, he was fostered and then became a British Citizen legally with the help and assistance of those around him, so although he wasn’t telling the country, the appropriate authorities and people knew years ago.
The sad thing is, if Mo hadn’t been helped along the way, what could have happened, there’s thousands who are on the other side of this issue who have been torn away from their families, forced into modern slavery and no happy ending for them. This is the real story, it’s always nice to hear stories with happy endings, but effort is required to make them happen more often.
I think the real story is actually the teacher.
The PE teacher. The type of teacher that, if we are all honest, we don't really treat with equal respect to other teachers because they spend their day in a track suit and playing games.
The PE teacher who spotted that Mo could "communicate" through sport, even though his english was not great (and presumably his other academic skills would be "behind" having not been in formal education when he was here).
The PE teacher who build up the trust with Mo, so that a teenager could tell someone about his awful home life.
The PE teacher who helped him with social services and find a route out of slavery.
The PE teacher who then helped him apply for a passport so he could travel to an international race.
There are teachers like this, truly vested in their pupils' best interests up and down the country. I am quite sure that in all their tiptoeing around the politics of this not one of the candidates for PM remembers to say, "we need to recognise the contribution of this PE teacher AND every teacher, social worker, foster carer etc around the country who look out for the vulnerable in this country and nurture them."
@poly well said & exactly why we should be paying such people good salaries and not tying them up in targets & paperwork & if necessary pay more taxes rather than singing the austerity tune.
Very well said.
Noted this from the Telegraph article:
The BBC said that the woman who brought Sir Mo to the UK was approached to give her account but did not respond.
Deserves a police visit, except that, as we know, it's much easier to go after the victims of trafficking/ms than the actual traffickers.
Yeah, well said poly.
Reminded me of the Ian Wright, Mr Pigden story.
"By importing builders, plumbers, electricians…"
And someone to wipe scoffcake's arse when his kids dump him in a care home.
As the nation ages disgracefully, the numbers of young people and those of working age aren't getting restocked, (supply chain issues related to brexit).
Immigrants also pay taxes, someone's got to pay for all that bog roll haven't they?
Are there double standards here between this and the recent Windrush scandal?
It's the home office, i have no doubt that if it was someone who hasn't won multiple gold medals etc they would be going after him now.
I think it is a great thing that he is able to speak about it now and hopefully will affect some people to change their views slightly.
On the other positive i am sure some gammons will be that little step closer to an aneurysm after reading that
Only stereotypical gammons (which are rare) are anti-immigration full stop. An open border is idealistic nonsense from people who bear no responsibility for the consequences. There is nothing wrong with limited immigration according to an immigration policy (which means border control).
The situations aren't the same. Mo has documented citizenship, the Windrush victims had no paperwork at all.
The situations aren’t the same. Mo has documented citizenship, the Windrush victims had no paperwork at all.
Right but we knew why they were here and that it wasn't really their fault that they were here.
I think anyone with common sense 'knew' that but technically or formally speaking the Windrush victims couldn't 'prove' anything because their landing cards had been destroyed.
There'll be some parly 'researchers' frantically trying to dig up some Salazar sleaze to discredit Mo....
That's nice Mo, now what really happened with Alberto Salazar and the Nike Oregon Project doping regime?
Only stereotypical gammons (which are rare) are anti-immigration full stop. An open border is idealistic nonsense from people who bear no responsibility for the consequences. There is nothing wrong with limited immigration according to an immigration policy (which means border control).
I couldn't agree more, however I also wish no countries had border controls cos I'd probably be living in Canada or somewhere equally less crowded.
Yeah like Wiggins and Armstrong – never failed a drug test 😀
Eh?
Yeah like Wiggins and Armstrong – never failed a drug test 😀
Off FFS he upsets your world view so you leap immediately to tarnishing his name 🤦♀️
Preconceptions? Like we should let anyone from around the world freely move here?
If they are fleeing conflict or are victims of political repression, or violence, then I don't see why not.
Nigeria alone, for example, will have about 400 million by 2050.
An open border is idealistic
Of course.
But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t aspire to it. Look to create opportunities everywhere and an open border will become a great thing.
The downside for governments is that it will become increasingly difficult to fight wars because it will become increasingly difficult to get people to join a national army. Police service yes, army no.
So it ends up a bit like the fact I could be born in Scotland, educated in Scotland and Italy (EU don’t you know), live in England (York), work in West Yorkshire, children attending a school in North Yorkshire - suddenly arbitrary borders put there to tell me what I can and can’t do stop mattering as much.
But it starts with creating parity of opportunity across ever larger land areas.
Now back to Mo - has anyone asked that nice Ms Patel for a comment?
There is nothing wrong with limited immigration according to an immigration policy
Cool. What do you propose that policy should look like?
I feel terrible for Mo and a cried reading his story but.. It doesn't excuse that he chose to maintain a very close relationship with a Salazar an appalling individual, Mo was in his inner circle. Salazar sexually and mentally abused young women and girls and pressured athletes to take drugs. The truth is that distance running is a house of cards when it comes to PEDs and it just hasn't had it's Lance Armstrong moment yet, IAAF and IOC will do everything to stop it from happening.
Defending Mo Farah wrt to Salazar is like my US colleagues in the mid 00 defending Lance was it so obvious he was cheating. I'm afraid he tarnished his own name and reputation.
Off FFS he upsets your world view so you leap immediately to tarnishing his name 🤦♀️
Before I actually read the story and learned of the whole sad affair I did wonder if he was trying to announce something to deflect further drug allegations.
I feel pretty dirty for thinking that and certainly don't believe he did release this story as a shield.
The truth is that distance running is a house of cards when it comes to PEDs and it just hasn’t had it’s Lance Armstrong moment
The interesting thing about the Lance fanboys in the 00s was that they could acknowledge the rampant use of PEDs (and blood doping) in cycling but someone Lance was a special case. Any number of absurd rationalisation would be invented to explain how Lance could beat the dopers on nothing but orange juice.
Cool story, bro.
What a story.
I read an article recently (whish I could remember where so I could link it) that proposed that heart-warming good news stories are just a mask to the reality of life. So the friends pulling together to fund one of their groups medical bills, the police officer who ends up adopting the parentless child he is called out to etc. They make us feel good about life without any action being taken to ensure good outcomes for the millions of incidents where that doesn't happen.
I can't help that this is how this story is developing, the celebrities and politicians praising his bravery in telling his story, the home office deciding to take no action against the knighted Olympic champion. Would that be the same outcome if he was working a minimum wage job struggling to feed his family, or is the more realistic outcome that the authorities would pile pressure into his life and try to break him.
Before I actually read the story and learned of the whole sad affair I did wonder if he was trying to announce something to deflect further drug allegations.
While this is a tragic tale with a sort of fairytale ending, I'm not sure, sadly, it'll actually impress the British public overall. Suspect half the country will recognise the adversity and root harder for him, and the DM half will double down on their 'doubts'.
So basically I don't think it would have the effect, overall, you're imagining.
If he wanted to do something to deflect attention, he'd set up athletics facilities for impoverished people in inner-city London or something that everyone can get behind.
If everything was as described in the programme (which was obviously edited) then someone in Social Services has some serious questions to answer. The "foster" parents he was placed with was the sister of the man he had been living with (the sister in law of the person who trafficked him to the UK). This seems to have been on the basis he called her his "aunt". Now it seems he got lucky and the aunt was decent, but neither he nor his aunt described any kind of process to establish suitability or mentioned reviews after that. I know it was a long time ago, but it wasn't that long ago, safeguarding wasn't an alien concept and likely some of those people are still working. Obviously, time, age, language barriers, perspective means that there might be another side to it that wasn't shown but it gave me zero confidence that if a teenager spoke out today that the council would act correctly.
Surely if Farah was doping, he'd have got some stuff that made him better at marathons we he gave that a go!
How is the UK going to find homes, infrastructure and jobs to absorb the potentially almost infinite number of people who could come here?
a lot of folk who live there would go somewhere else and make space for the newcomers.
id guess that not many folk who aren’t from the 3rd world dream of moving to the UK.
How is the UK going to find homes, infrastructure and jobs to absorb the potentially almost infinite number of people who could come here?
I could free up some space if this damp rock in the North Atlantic was to be overrun. NZ or Tasmania has always appealled.
Many people who fled to the UK have done very well and added to the fabric of our society.
Farrookh Bulsara is one, otherwise known as Freddie Mercury.
Now it seems he got lucky and the aunt was decent, but neither he nor his aunt described any kind of process to establish suitability or mentioned reviews after that
While (even apparent) family placements are always given priority, I can assure you that even back then, checks and reviews were expected to happen.
Assuming the social worker could fit it in amongst their other conflicting priorities, due to high caseloads resulting from vacancies and high staff turnover, as people realise that being wrong regardless of what you do isn't much of a career choice.