[Closed] Mitigating the energy price rise, heating/hot water

im probably very similar to you at the moment - (system 200L +35kw boiler). The main thing im looking at is turing off the constant circulaion pump which is activated duing peak periods (for those that don't have that - I have 2 hot water pipes running round the house (flow and return - much like rads) - it stops the 5 minute run to get hot water to the taps. it's probably a bit wasteful.

cylinder manufacturer here....

if it is a modern cylinder with the proper controls (cylinder stat/Motorised zone valve), heat loss is likely to be 60-80W/hr so about 1kWh lost overnight. if its in the airing cupboard then its not 'lost'. cost of heating the cylinder fully in the evening and then letting it sit hot overnight is about 5p.

cutting down the amount of hot water used is going to save you more money than worrying about fine tuning the 'hot water' heating timings.

can you fit a low flow shower head? some have replaceable inserts to restrict the flow.

In terms of the heating, lowering the room/boiler stat controlling the heating is the simplest of the things you can do, and one that has the biggest user-influenced impact on energy use.

I have the heating on for about 45mins in the evening when it is cold (below 13 degrees in the lounge), never in the morning or during the day. I'll guess I'll probably have to make that 30 mins now.
Hot water heats up when I turn the tap on for washing up, already use the minimum possible.
I will probably have a slightly shorter shower in the morning.

I lost my sense of smell from COVID over a year ago. I think I'll just stop showering.

I'm not far off the same as SFB, I rarely have it on in the evenings at the moment tbh now though as i'm not exactly cold following the commute home then I'm at the gym or working around the house between 7-10 so only goes on when 5c or below or so outside.

Does get me worried about damp mind, I'm hoping as long as the ventilation is kept on top of all is good?

and will see if the organic thermometer notices..

😀

I've one of those too, the alarm on it is incessant....

I've given up trying to save Elec. The Wife simply cannot survive without every corner of the housing being lit night (or day) and the Teenager thinks it's only proper to leave his PC on 24/7 for others to enjoy his Minecraft Server.

I've trimmed a few mins off the timer, turned the combi down a bit and hoping for the best.

turned the combi down a bit and hoping for the best.

if its a condensing boiler , make sure you dont turn it down too low (or up too high - but I guess that is unlikely with current prices) - for the condensing heat recovery to work and therefore for the boiler to be operating efficiently ,the water temperature has to be quite set to quite a specific value. If it goes too low you could actually be costing yourself more money.

check you boiler manual for the details, but for example:-

https://www.viessmann.co.uk/heating-advice/what-temperature-to-set-condensing-boiler

im starting to think some poeple live in caves - do you not like to be comfortable?

@P-jay

Teenager thinks it’s only proper to leave his PC on 24/7 for others to enjoy his Minecraft Server.

It might be more cost effective to rent a virtual server at a hosting company, rather than leave a home PC chugging away 24/7

https://www.techradar.com/uk/web-hosting/best-minecraft-server-hosting

im starting to think some poeple live in caves – do you not like to be comfortable?

Must admit some of you must be able to tolerate the cold better than I can 13 °C? Mrs f would leave me...........

turns heating off.....

Gas isn't the issue in our house as the heating is really efficient (25 year old boiler too) but since boarding the 'last' half of the attic, our room and my daughter's get really warm, so heating goes off at 7pm, rather than 9:30.

WFH has increased electric as the conservatory runs off an oil filled radiator, and water use. That said we are now returning to the office part time, so when I'm in only I don't have the heating on as much.

My electric is a mare with a 'hot tub' and two gaming PC's

Need to educate my daughter to use the dryer less !!

im starting to think some poeple live in caves – do you not like to be comfortable?

I'm starting to think that some people have absolutely no ****ing clue that many people can't actually afford to keep their house at 18c.

I recently lowered all phases of our central heating timer by 0.5 degrees, and turned the hot water output down from 62 to 60 but as its condensing can't really go lower.

We are already 100% led lighting, so its mo'jumpers for us.

By co-incidence we are having a new back door and bathroom window fitted tomorrow both of which are 20yo and leak drafts through badly during a north/east wind.

so its mo’jumpers for us.

TV blankets are good, mine is deployed Oct-March 🙂

No heating at the moment,

Can't afford it at the price it is now never mind what it's about to become

Wonder how much I spend on electricity repeatedly filling up the hot water bottle

Return to the office starts for us next week, but realistically there's one of us going to be home most days.

Thermostat set to 18°, might need to be more selective with valves on the radiators when rooms aren't being used.

Blankets already get deployed in evenings, and sometimes working in the day.

It's my feet that get cold first, need better socks

if its a condensing boiler , make sure you dont turn it down too low (or up too high – but I guess that is unlikely with current prices) – for the condensing heat recovery to work and therefore for the boiler to be operating efficiently ,the water temperature has to be quite set to quite a specific value. If it goes too low you could actually be costing yourself more money.

I recently lowered all phases of our central heating timer by 0.5 degrees, and turned the hot water output down from 62 to 60 but as its condensing can’t really go lower.

My Worcester combi condensing boiler has weather and load compensation via a smart thermostat, and sets itself to a flow temperature of 50-55 degrees for heating. This is in line with other advice I've read about the most efficient temperature for condensing.

https://www.theheatinghub.co.uk/why-our-condensing-boilers-do-not-condense

ETA - I'm probably going to fit smart TRVs throughout the house so the bedrooms and lounge can stay off during the day without having to do it manually. I WFH so do need some heating.

TV blankets are good

How do you see what is on the screen?

I’m probably going to fit smart TRVs throughout the house so the bedrooms and lounge can stay off during the day without having to do it manually. I WFH so do need some heating.

But what's the cost of a load of smart TRVs vs the cost of an oil-filled radiator in the room you're working in?

Same as SFB
Except i cycle my ch in a 30 min on, then 30 off cycle. X3 so the timer is on for 90 mins a day.
Hot water, low flow and longish run means i can get in once its warmed up. Get soaked, switch water off. Go crazy with the shower gel and then, by opening the flow slowly the combi doesn't trigger so i use the hot water in the pipe works to rinse down.
Keeps my gas bill down to a £20 a month average currently.
Thinking of a self build solar tank to feed the combi
Works out around £400, indirect tank, 30mtr copper, pump, pid controller, temp guage, prv, ally back plate, glass and some insulation.
The sun hits the south face front of my house for hours, its 9mtr long. So a box of 5mtr x 1mtr will produce alot of hot water. Cycle that through the coil with a tiny 12v pump then feed the vombi off that tank.
Washing machine is hot fed as is the dishwasher and shower obvs.

Heating only ever comes on in the evening for Mrs Pondo's return - normally 18 degrees, will knock it down to 16 and see if blankets are enough to stay comfy.

This ****ing country - it's like we're aspiring to become fifties East Germany.

But what’s the cost of a load of smart TRVs vs the cost of an oil-filled radiator in the room you’re working in?

A heater just for the one room is probably cheaper overall but a smart system gives me better control of the house - different programmes for weekdays and weekends for example. Plus my wife also WFH so we'd need two radiators.

Wonder how much I spend on electricity repeatedly filling up the hot water bottle

if you use an electric kettle, and only fill it with enough to fill the HWB (say 1Litre) then its about 0.1kWh or 2.5p.

Singletrackmind - £400 - not a chance. the tank to prefeed your combi needs to be unvented and compliant with building regs. your insurance will be void if you are found to have installed a non-compliant unvented cylinder and there's an issue.

This is what happens if you mess with hot water. There used to be a wall between the cylinder and the rest of the flat!

edit - not sure why the photo's not there but its nasty. trust me 🙂

I think I'll be buying a down suit, for the house in winter. Lots of ready brek too

We've been in the current house three years now, thankfully the previous owners paid for a very good heating system, large rads, big bore pipework and quality boiler so the house heats up quickly. Changed the stat to a modern one which can modulate flame height and monitors outside temps. So far I've been insulating everywhere like a man possessed, loft is now a foot thick everywhere, this winter I've been under all the suspended floors and installed 100mm there, noticeable difference to how long the rooms retain the heat.
I've sneakily reduced the temps throughout the day and I've adjusted times so it turns on an hour later and off an hour earlier, not been rumbled yet.
Solar panels fitted when we first moved in and we've got much better at using the generated electricity when it's available and staggering our high usage appliances. Wifey bought an air fryer a couple of years ago, turns out does a much better job of cooking and is far more efficient than using the oven.
One of the dole scrounger layabouts.... sorry... children has landed himself a full time job and moved out so hefty saving on food, water and electricity bills, one down one to go.
I'm seriously considering fitting a log burner in the spring, had one in the old house and loved it and due to a good supply of free wood made a huge dent in the heating bill, wasn't going to bother as the new house is far more efficient to run but if further rises in October are to be believed I'd rather have it than not.

this winter I’ve been under all the suspended floors and installed 100mm there, noticeable difference to how long the rooms retain the heat.

That's been on my todo list for years - looks like such an unpleasant job, plus I'd have to make a mess of the lovely Victorian floor boards to make an access hatch etc...

Sitting in a 1930's built house I'm beginning to wonder when replacing all the external render with insulation then render is going to become economical! At least with WFH we get the benefit of the heating all day.

Edit: Going under the floors and adding more there is also an option though it does already have a layer.

I’ve shaved 30 mins off the heating, 15 morning and 15 evening and will see if the organic thermometer notices..

Back to the OP, we have a thermostat on the HW tank, so whilst it goes 'on' for an hour to heat it, as soon as its up to temp, the boiler shuts off. If it's already warm, then the boiler never fires.

Sitting in a 1930’s built house I’m beginning to wonder when replacing all the external render with insulation then render is going to become economical! At least with WFH we get the benefit of the heating all day.

All the rage..

[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/7486/16190586106_9fe02c0704.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/7486/16190586106_9fe02c0704.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/qEGZbj ]External Insulation[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr

[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/5470/17676765655_36bf85caa8.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/5470/17676765655_36bf85caa8.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/sW33zD ]Brick and Render External Insulation[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr

[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/5448/17490453049_f16b43e4a2.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/5448/17490453049_f16b43e4a2.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/sDz9kk ]Brick and Render External Insulation[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr

I'm gonna guess that external insulation and re-render is not cheap...?

Sitting in a 1930’s built house I’m beginning to wonder when replacing all the external render with insulation then render is going to become economical!

I'm thinking similar, but indoor cladding/insulated plasterboard, as we live in a stone cottage. MrsIHN isn't sure, she's wary of the interior space lost.

Is that brick slips on the lower half @footflaps. Hmm might kill two birds and hide the super soft bricks our house has. I can see the cost being eye watering though.

Is that brick slips on the lower half @footflaps

I assume so, on my cycle ride to work. Quite a few houses in that street have done the same - looks excellent 7 years later.

We're a Victorian terrace in a Conservation area so wouldn't be allowed to do that....

But what’s the cost of a load of smart TRVs vs the cost of an oil-filled radiator in the room you’re working in?

The cap is due to hit £10 a day for energy later this year if the rumours are to be believed. TRV heads at £40 a rad look cheap by comparison and the payback starts to get very short. We heat two rooms Monday to Friday for Mrs S WFH timings. Everywhere else is tightly controlled at 19C for morning and evening (not the bathroom that's a balmy 22C for morning and 20C for a couple of hours in the late evening).

Insulating under the floors on ground floor is going to require the laminate in all rooms coming up as we have a very small underfloor gap beneath the joists. That will become more feasible as energy prices go ever skywards.

I’m thinking similar, but indoor cladding/insulated plasterboard, as we live in a stone cottage. MrsIHN isn’t sure, she’s wary of the interior space lost.

I did it on a previous house, an 1860 end terrace with solid walls. Barely noticed the difference in room size (you're only doing the external walls, not all of them) and the improvement was huge.

Barely noticed the difference in room size (you’re only doing the external walls, not all of them) and the improvement was huge.

You'll be taking off over 1" of victorian plaster and replacing with 7mm of modern gypsum, so that gains you a bit of space for insulation...

That’s been on my todo list for years – looks like such an unpleasant job, plus I’d have to make a mess of the lovely Victorian floor boards to make an access hatch etc…

I've done worse jobs, but not many, I'd been putting it off since we moved in but our energy supplier went bust last year and turfed us off the nice low tariff we had so it spurred me into action.

But what’s the cost of a load of smart TRVs vs the cost of an oil-filled radiator in the room you’re working in?

I don't have concrete proof that our smart TRV's (Tado) save money as I fitted them with a new boiler when we moved into the house, but I think they save about 1/3rd off the bill. Our 4 bed detached 1979 built house is heated all day, varying between 19c during the day and 21c in the evening downstairs, never feels cold. With all that in mind, our heating bill for 2020 was only £400 for a year...

You’ll be taking off over 1″ of victorian plaster and replacing with 7mm of modern gypsum, so that gains you a bit of space for insulation…

Dumb Q, but why would you have to take off the plaster? That seems like an awful lot of mess compared to some dot and dabbing of boards over it.

Dumb Q, but why would you have to take off the plaster? That seems like an awful lot of mess compared to some dot and dabbing of boards over it.

Get the space back and make it look neater?

That's what I'd do, but you could just leave it.

I’ve done worse jobs, but not many, I’d been putting it off since we moved in but our energy supplier went bust last year and turfed us off the nice low tariff we had so it spurred me into action.

Plus I'd be endlessly thinking of the Evil Dead whilst under the floor...

We've put one of the butlers on a six day week.

Just a hypothetical...
What's to stop people over-declaring their meter readings now while on a 'cheap' fixed tariff and then gradually bringing them to correct over the next few years? Ie. Pay more up front now on the cheap rate, and less later when your contract has run out and its got a lot more expensive.
Obviously it's fraud and there is an upfront cost but apart from that?

I've thought about insulating between floors but it'd prevent the bedrooms heating up as much, insulating externally surely has to be done to an absolute maximum before internally?

I do need to make sure all the coppers properly lagged though

insulating externally surely has to be done to an absolute maximum before internally?

Not an option if you're in a conservation area.

I guess it would also cost several £k, so if you're struggling with bills you probably won't be able to afford it. Whereas a bit of DIY lagging / celotex boards inside would be quite cheap.

I'm sure there used to be LA grants for external insulation....

Our 1980 detached is pretty much as insulated as a structure of its type can be.

Graphite coated polybeads in the cavity, 300mm mineral wool in the loft. Argon DG throughout, plus a new boiler just before xmas.

But I do still have to do the underfloor, which is going to be a bugger.

I’ve just bought a load of smart Hive TRVs to go with our Hive system. Takes a lot of fine tuning and understanding how they interact but I’m getting there. Cost me £150 in their new year sale. I need to get a couple more though as I’m finding the hallway (which doesn’t have a TRV) rad is on loads now and it’s really warm in there all the time which is a waste and the kitchen dining room is the same. I’m wondering if I do need to have one rad which is open all the time or not as it seems such a waste. The way the TRVs work is that they request heat from the boiler so in theory when the boiler fires it will only be to a rad that needs it so it shouldn’t be an issue.
There are 2 of us in a big 3 bed semi and we work from home all the time so selectively heating rooms through the day makes a lot of sense to me - bedroom/bathroom in morning, work rooms during the day and lounge/dining at different parts of the evening then back on bedroom again for a short while just before bed.

I can't possibly face turning down our heating at all, I'm sitting here in a hoody with the hood up and a double blanket covering head to toe. The thermostat is set to a meager 17 degrees and it comes on for 15 minutes in the morning and between 6pm and 9pm in the evening. It's a 1800's farmers cottage rental which is barely above the minimum allowed to be rented and costs us £100 a month already and although I'd be happy paying more the heat just wafts out the doors etc.so I may as well open a window and through pound notes out.

The Greta generation are quite happy to steal their own future thanks very much, if my two are anything to go by...

Getting them to spend less than twenty minutes in the shower would be a great start for this household.

Meanwhile, all this lovely firewood blowing in like manna from heaven coupled with the energy price rises has been good for the woodburner game!

Getting them to spend less than twenty minutes in the shower would be a great start for this household.

We have a "pencil" HW tank, 20 mins is good going before the water runs cold!

None of my lot have a scooby how anything works, so maybe after 10 minutes I should just turn down the boiler water temp to minimum & tell them they’ve used all the water…..

this winter I’ve been under all the suspended floors and installed 100mm there,

What did you use?
I’ve been meaning to do this since we moved in. I’ve got OK access to get down there and wondered about dragging something like the foil wrapped space blankets behind me. But how to hold it up?

Having run out of oil and with no money to buy any I can assure you that it’s Baltic with no heating at all. I can’t recommend it 😉

Haven't used the Ch at all this winter despite young kids and me WFH. The wood stoves have been sufficient and since the wood was free it is saving a fortune. Still, the electricity cost increase is making up for it.

Electric heating. Electric hot water. Bill has nearly doubled, £210 last month expecting more now the cap has been increased. Good job it's mild!

I can’t possibly face turning down our heating at all, I’m sitting here in a hoody with the hood up and a double blanket covering head to toe

Get a proper thick wool jumper. Much warmer than any hoody and lasts ages between washes.

Go on holiday innit

What did you use?
I’ve been meaning to do this since we moved in. I’ve got OK access to get down there and wondered about dragging something like the foil wrapped space blankets behind me. But how to hold it up?

I used 100mm loft insulation (4" beams) and it's held in place with a breathable membrane stapled to the underside of the beams.

What did you use?
I’ve been meaning to do this since we moved in. I’ve got OK access to get down there and wondered about dragging something like the foil wrapped space blankets behind me. But how to hold it up?

I have celotex fitted between the joists. It made a big difference to comfort.

Cheers. I’ll do some searching.

I can’t do celotex unfortunately without ripping the floor up, which isn’t happening.

We're in a 5 year old house, with triple glazing, air source heat pump, LED lights, solar panels, under floor etc. Estimated bill over £400/month. That's 3 teenagers though.
Teenagers are the issue. We haven't even got a chimney we can make them clean......
Some folk choose to pay £60+/month on a phone mind and believe the 'upgrade for free' BS every couple of years.

boxelder - get rid of your children; think of the cost saving and it will help them to become independent.

On a slightly more serious note...I'm now definitely going ahead with ripping out a nasty faux chimney breast and having a floor to ceiling one built in stone to house a woodburner - DEFRA approved, of course.
The original chimney and liner are in great condition so that's one possible concern out of the way.

My place is pretty old and split over 3 floors - our family is young kids and pets. I’ve insulated the ground floor and 1st floor voids but can’t get to much of the 2nd floor loft space because the struts are too close together to crawl through. I’ve also fitted smart catches to the windows so when the family open the windows the heating cuts out automatically.

I’ve tweaked quite a bit of our elec and gas usage over the last few years including the obvious stuff:

- radiators off on the floors / rooms not used in the day
- max temp of 19 for a few hours in the evening but other than that 18 in the daytime and 15 overnight
- turned down the flow on hot water taps and dialled hot water back to 15 mins a day on the timer
- installed smart timers to turn off some devices overnight / when we’re out

Winter has been a tiny bit cold at times but I’ve worn extra thick socks and an extra layer of jumpers. It’s not been too bad even working at a desk for long periods - having a hot meal for lunch definitely helps.

Our current energy use is about £5 a day including the standing charge - with a 2/3 split of elec to gas.

Based on what some neighbours / friends say, we use about 1/3 of similar families but even though it’s pretty easy to dial back usage many folk just can’t be bothered.

That said, for people renting in uninsulated homes or old folk who are infirm / can’t go out the latest rises are brutal - so it’s good to see some offsets in place through council tax etc.

Based on friends in far flung places the huge inflation of gas prices seems to have hit everyone - it’s a tragedy that the UK’s politicians and energy regulator failed to plan for this scenario for the last 20 years - and let it be compounded by allowing uk production of nuclear / gas to fall before reliable alternatives were in place.

I'm in a modernish 1 bed flat and can't go any lower on my usage without causing problems. Everything is electric: Economy 7 storage heaters, tiny hot water tank (not big enough to make a warm bath!!), cooker and oven. I have the hot water on for an hour every night as any more means it's too cool to have a short shower and wash the dishes. Heating is on the minimum setting when I use it. All my lights are LED and I can't add any insulation anywhere. My direct debit went up from £63 to £108 last month despite me being in credit ~£200 and then I'm being forcefully switched to a different provider next month (current provider hasn't gone bust) which is triggering an extra price rise. Not looking forward to any more rises!

Reviewed my number of £400 for a break tank pre combi.
Ok it's not £400 but it is under £500.
IF i can find a suitable good used tank off ebay for around 150, thrn its £280 for the copper tube, back plate again ebay off cuts, amd glass.
Tank would be external, ground level, in a lean to housing the 12v pump and controls system.
Wall mounted panel on 18mm ply, cellotex lined, 30mtr of copper, spray paint, toughened glass
Got loads of 12v transformers kicking around already
Unknown cost is fixing tube to backplate, brazing and heat sink paste.
I think i could produce 100% of my hot water for half a year with a well lagged correctly sized tank ie small around 150ltr.

What did you use?
I’ve been meaning to do this since we moved in. I’ve got OK access to get down there and wondered about dragging something like the foil wrapped space blankets behind me. But how to hold it up?

I've insulated some of my underfloor, it's a hateful task.
Very little wriggle room and access is a bitch.
I used the recycled plastic insulation rolls from B&Q the issue I had was keeping it in position as the joist spacings were all over the place.
My solution was to use plastic orange barrier netting stapled onto the underside of the joists.

HTH Good luck

Has anyone installed a home battery system?
Watched a Youtube video the other night about them and the potential payback could be as little as 4 years. That was without any Solar PV and on an EV night time charging tariff.

My thinking was get one installed without the PV, I'm a spark so installation other than materials would be negligible.
Then further down the line bash a couple of solar panels on the garage roof/gable wall.
Not ideal but it's the only South facing part of our building, but something is better than nothing.

Short of going solar I'm not sure the is much I can do to save money (well I could ditch the snake collection however I have already pared that back a lot).

Gas even with an Aga (which is going very soon) was only £48 last month so will be £28ish once the Aga goes and that's in winter and I've been cutting back on the leccy as much as possible but can't seem to get it below £120 in the winter and £90-100 in the summer.

But, the outlay for solar is not insignificant and I'm yet to be convinced its worth it. If installation costs drop 25-30% it becomes more viable.

Re heating - have you all considered your curtain arrangement?

We have thick curtains on all our windows with extra thermal lining. Many of them stay closed during the day when people are out (we have few houseplants!). Our living room has a big window and patio doors but the curtains are closed on winter evenings and the TV and two people watching telly is enough to heat the room. We also have a curtain at the bottom of the stairs on a removeable pole that we fit in the winter. Makes a tremendous difference to the temperature downstairs. And when we want some evening light, the two biggest windows have two sets of curtains - the inner set is muslin so can be drawn to let in light but still keep in a fair amount of heat. Also the front door has a curtain mounted on a portiere rack that opens and closes with the door.

This year I also covered the gaps in our warped UPVC windows with tape to block the draughts. Very effective - I recommend you check yours for gaps with a piece of paper.

I can’t do celotex unfortunately without ripping the floor up, which isn’t happening.
Posted 12 hours ago

I plan to use Celotex, cut each sheet into the right width strips then pass the strip through a small hole and fit in between the joists. If you cut it a bit over sized you can just tap it into place and it crushes a bit at the edges to create a snug fit. Same method I used to fit between the workshop rafters.

@b230ftw

just about to press go on Hive TRVs. assuming the £150 was for the 3 pack, what was your strategy for where you put them? We've got 17 radiators to cover, but though i'd start with just the 5... hallways/corridors don't need them as they are on low anyway, same with bathrooms. 2 of them are in the thermostat room so that doesn't need any TRVs. thinking the big rooms such as lounge, kitchen and main bedrooms.

already in 'discussion' with the OH about which rooms would need heating during the day. she's adamant "kitchen and bathrooms definitely do". me "you're in the kitchen for 15 minutes max, making lunch and getting brews - it doesn't need to be heated" etc...

The other thing, our thermostat is in a room that won't be used as an office, but I can't really think of a better place to put it. Where do others put their main thermostat? the main sitting room has a wood burner so that would send the thing crazy. Are they supposed to go in hallways...?

I'd like to do external wall insulation. A house a few doors up had it a few years ago and I can see the results are smart. I did do a few searches, found assume websites which gave me rough costs and I worked out the break even was something like 15 years. So I took it no further. If this price rise is permanent then pay back could be 6 or 7 years now.

Oh and just to say, an easy win is treat yourself to good curtains, or blinds as well. The added insulation across window openings can make a good difference even with double glazed windows.

Gas even with an Aga (which is going very soon) was only £48 last month so will be £28ish once the Aga goes

Don't forget to factor in that you'll lose the heat given off by the Aga - will you replace that?

Many of them stay closed during the day when people are out (we have few houseplants!).

I sometimes do that but we face south so the solar gain can be quite appreciable. That said, 3/4s of our downstairs doesn't even have curtains now after a remodel - we very rarely closed them anyway.

But, the outlay for solar is not insignificant and I’m yet to be convinced its worth it.

I can't wait for the slightly longer days and increased PV production.
If I had the money I would be adding greatly to our current 4Kw solar array (ground mounted as I have a lot of space).
I even thought of filling a currently unused 2 acre paddock with panels!!

+1 for molgrips' comment about curtains.
Mid to heavy weight fabric, lined and interlined.
I recommend a front door curtain in addition to doing windows and patio doors.

boxelder – get rid of your children; think of the cost saving and it will help them to become independent.

You could try giving them an energy budget. Get a plug-in meter and work out how much it costs them to run their computer/electronics, then demonstrate how much computer time the shower costs them etc.

That said, 3/4s of our downstairs doesn’t even have curtains now after a remodel – we very rarely closed them anyway.

This is a bad idea, you're literally throwing money out of the windows.

Are they supposed to go in hallways…?

Yes. The hallways usually have the ballast radiators in which won't have TRVs on. If you put it in a room where the TRV is and the setting on the thermostat is mis-matched with the TRV then you could end up wit the heating churning away and baking the rest of the house, or you could have the opposite.

We bought a moveable one and experimented with having it further away from the hall radiator to stop it clicking on and off so rapidly. However it wasn't needed since the movable one also had a setting to compensate for it. But it was an interesting experiment to see how moving it up and down the hall (or even upstairs) changed the behaviour. You just adjust the temp to compensate. Hallway is set to 17C but it's clearly warmer than that in the rest of the house because living space is one floor up.

Ive got dumb TRV's on all my radiators, but they're all set to max, I was looking at getting some smart trv's so I can turn off the lounge, dining room, bedrooms etc during the working day, and only have heat in the rooms where we work, but smart trvs are hellishly expensive, so I figure all I really need is programable TRV's, where I can set a daily schedule, and just leave them to do their thing.

I already have the overall system being controlled by a google nest thermostat - which has made quite a difference to gas consumption in the 18 months we've had it.

So I've ordered 4 programmable TRV's for £60 in total , which is about the same as buying a single tado TRV, plus you also need a tado bridge on top. if these 4 seem decent then I'll get a few more to sort the whole house out.