I do wonder if there was someone important on the plane.
But more than likely it is just an accident 🙁
It has already been speculated in the news that there were two false passport holders on the flight.
(Equally, on the French flight there was a passenger noted for his campaigning against the South American drug lords/trade who was speculated to be a target at the time).
Steady on people.
Maybe this might help:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9811495/I-can-t-give-up-hope-says-wife-of-missing-passenger
200+ people missing and the folk on here are winking and smiling! well done.
It's interesting what hits the top of the news agenda, isn't it? (and that we take our cues from that - this is top of the headlines so it must be a "significant tragedy"), meanwhile in other world news:
[url= http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/03/09/3687302/iraq-suicide-car-bomb-kills-at.html ]More people blown to bits, this time in less headline-grabbing fashion[/url]
For those who can't be arsed with the link (and why should you?), I was struck by this little summary
Iraq has seen a spike in violence since last April, with the death toll climbing to its highest levels since the worst of the country's sectarian bloodletting in 2006-2008. The U.N. says 8,868 people were killed in 2013, and more than 1,400 people were killed in January and February of this year.
Oh yes, and in 2012, in the UK, 1,754 people were killed on the UK's roads, just not in one, big, headline grabbing incident, so we don't feel the need to be so subdued when discussing it.
My money is on the Chinese
You mean Islamic Uighurs as opposed to the Chinese? Because China is a big ass country with a lot of different ethnic groups within it's borders.
I know it's unlikely but this could be an extra terrestrial grab.Nobody can say it's not possible.
It's not possible.
It is actually possible.
Oh yes, and in 2012, in the UK, 1,754 people were killed on the UK's roads, just not in one, big, headline grabbing incident, so we don't feel the need to be so subdued when discussing it.
I can't remember people coming on here and making light of RTAs however so not sure what your point is?
Yes bad things happen all the time, and some are reported more than others, but making light of it 48hrs after its happened is a bit misplaced, IMO.
Massive sonic boom just occurred over west Wales...
^^^ That was me on a new Bronson C - Big air near Lampeter
Also, I have to laugh at the Chinese attacking the Malaysians for lax seruity....having flown through China, they are by far the most incompetent country I have been through when it comes to this. They make Manila Ninoy seem like the height of competence.
Maybe Freddy Laker nicked it to start up again?
Massive sonic boom just occurred over west Wales...
Been attributed to training jets apparently. I think a naughty pilot will be getting a telling off.
For those finding the light-hearted comments seemingly offensive, heres a word of advice: Do not get yourselves a job in the Lloyds Insurance market or any of the associated city insurance brokers and underwriters. You would not last a morning.
The spontaneous humour that quickly circulates the market even before the Lutine bell is struck, is however borderline genius at times.
I fly with them rather often in the past. Still do domestically rather than the cheaper alternative if I can afford. Feel sick in the stomach hearing the news as I flew 10 trips the last few months in that region.
The possible scenarios are:
1. Mid-air explosion.
2. Sudden dive into sea. (plane at bottom of the sea now)
Both scenarios mean captain did not have time to mayday call or react. For scenario 2, something could have happened to the captain.
I expect Airbus are responsible to boost sales of their own aircraft
Flights for the 2 stolen passports were booked in Thailand by a travel agent for an Iranian man called Mr Ali as a middle man...according to 5 live.
They wanted to get to Amesterdam as cheaply as possible, the airport to the world...for me I think they had a bomb, it went off early/by mistake. No claim over it as they messed up and don't want to ruin how they got it aboard for the next attempt.
I think they had a bomb, it went off early/by mistake. No claim over it as they messed up and don't want to ruin how they got it aboard for the next attempt.
Quite an intriguing thought-----there sure seems to be some something odd about the 2 passports. I hadn't seen anything about the Iranian middleman, but did hear the tickets were consecutively numbered, so purchased at the same time.
R5 also said that many flights have passengers with stolen passports and that we shouldn't read too much into just that fact - yet
So if they know they are stolen passports why do they let them on the plane?...
Or do they only check when something goes wrong.
Yeah they did, in fairness they could be just after asylum etc. but the Mr Ali ticket buyer from Iran did sound a bit strange!!
We'll probably never find out.
chewkw - MemberI fly with them rather often in the past. Still do domestically rather than the cheaper alternative if I can afford. Feel sick in the stomach hearing the news as I flew 10 trips the last few months in that region.
The possible scenarios are:
1. Mid-air explosion.
2. Sudden dive into sea. (plane at bottom of the sea now)
or 3. Pressurisation failure, crew and passengers asphyxiate and plane continues flying until it's out of fuel like Helios Flight 522. Guess the apparent loss from radar probably rules that out though?
Quite an intriguing thought-----there sure seems to be some something odd about the 2 passports. I hadn't seen anything about the Iranian middleman, but did hear the tickets were consecutively numbered, so purchased at the same time.
R5 also said that many flights have passengers with stolen passports and that we shouldn't read too much into just that fact - yet
Indeed, and that the tickets were booked by asking for the cheapest route possible to europe (not to amsterdam specifically), rather than booking either a specific flight/route or destination. If planning an attack you'd imagine you'd have a plan as to where and when the attack would happen for the greatest effect - who the passengers are and the territory where it happen.
So if they know they are stolen passports why do they let them on the plane?...Or do they only check when something goes wrong.
As in "Did you steal this passport yourself sir?"
I suspect it didn't become apparent until they contacted the relatives of who they thought were missing/deceased passengers and found them to be alive and well
Nothing really adds up with it, every way you look at it doesn't make sense.
It is indeed possible to fly under the radar. I recall reading about a French pilot who was a very reluctant hero for gliding an air transat flight for over 400 miles without fuel into the Azores. Turned out he was very reluctant as he had learnt that particular skill flying drugs flights from Colombia under the radar into Mexico.
Can't see that happening here, but it is possible. It's a damn sight more likely that the 777 ditched in the sea though. People seem to think it'd be very easy to find something like that, but in reality it is the proverbial needle in the haystack.
As has been mentioned earlier, it was six days before any wreckage was found of the Air France plane and two years before the Black Box was found so it's still early days yet.
Latest news reports are suggesting searches being carried out in areas totally off the flight path though which suggests more is known than is being said...
proverbial needle in the haystack
You've got that right---when I was in the Navy, we went on a search & rescue mission for a 40-foot sailboat in trouble due to an explosion below decks. After the blast, it split in half and started sinking between Long Beach, CA and Catalina Island (about 25 miles)-----even with specific coordinates that the crew radioed that placed it in an area of about 2 square miles---we (and 3 other division ships)reached the area within about 2 hours and searched all day, then through the next night and never found even a trace.
tightywighty - Memberor 3. Pressurisation failure, crew and passengers asphyxiate and plane continues flying until it's out of fuel like Helios Flight 522. Guess the apparent loss from radar probably rules that out though?
That is a possibility but in this particular case it just disappeared from air. There is also a speculation that it was turning back.
As for searching for the plane in the South China Sea that will take sometime because they do not have all the hi-tech stuff to assist them.
searches being carried out in areas totally off the flight path though which suggests more is known than is being said
^ what he said.
As for searching for the plane in the South China Sea that will take sometime because they do not have all the hi-tech stuff to assist them.
Here's a list of aircraft missing in California: http://www.aircraftwrecks.com/missing.htm
Just remember how long it took to locate Steve Fossett, when he vanished.
As a professional pilot, I won't bother to speculate on what happened. Condolences to all involved.
I hope closure comes soon.
I fly the same type as AF447. Yes, the pilots made a tragic series of errors, but why? Look at their training, experience etc.
Many cheap short haul operators (now creeping into long haul market) use cheap pilots who haven't span, stalled, taken aircraft to the limit to find out what happens. They've been brought up on autopilots after a couple of hundred hours and they are the future captains. I still occasionally get to enjoy spinning, but in my day job am glad that I've had many years of hands-on handling. It's saved my life on more than one occasion.
But pilot error is much more complex than just 'screwing up'. Keep asking the 'why' questions. I conducted a training day where one pilot was laying into the crew of a sad fatal, labelling them as 'criminally negligent' . He judged them by the consequences not their actions. They made a mistake that many of us have done (rushed approach) and the resulting chain of events saw them fly into a mountain.
The better you are, the bigger your mistakes become.
RIP
Miketroid.. Posted from your A320 flight deck..?
Agree about the sadness though. Sad days.
News of debris being spotted now 🙁
Miketroid.. Posted from your A3[s]2[/s]30 flight deck..?
If it's the same as AF447 😉
I like the co-pilot's style. The old 'come up to the flight deck and you can see my joystick' trick. [url= http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/mh370-mystery-investigation-shifts-focus-to-thailand-crime-gangs-as-debris-discarded-as-evidence/story-fnizu68q-1226850965067 ]news.com.au[/url]
The plucky pilots reportedly wanted Ms Roos and Ms Maree to change their travel arrangements and extend their stay in Kuala Lumpur and join them on a night on the town.
[img] 
[/img]
The better you are, the bigger your mistakes become.
Thought provoking stuff, and very true.
AF447 - maintenance error, instrument error, pilot error
It's combinatorial failures that are hard to identify and design-out of systems, that cause the disasters.
njee20 - Member
Miketroid.. Posted from your A3230 flight deck..?
If it's the same as AF447
Or Airbus 'commonality'
Looks like debris claims were a hoax.
Now there are reports it was tracked 500km west over the Malacca Straights. http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.579123
It really is very odd that they are struggling to even find the tracking data.
It's [b]combinatorial[/b] failures
I'm anaspeptic, frasmotic, even compunctuous to have read such a pericombobulation.
I was thinking it was odd that I can look out the window and any plane I can see I can track online via [url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/flightradar-addicts-whats-out-of-your-window ]flightradar24[/url] or a load of other ways yet a massive plane has completely vanished. It looks like flightradar24 had it though, it also explains a bit of why they might also have lost it.
AF447 - maintenance error, instrument error, pilot error
What were the maintenance and instrument errors?
combinatorial
It's part of applied mathematics, CFH. Heard something very interesting on Radio 4 yesterday, about how the use of Maths and probability helped find the remains of the plane that went missing in 2009.
A mystery, and tragic for all involved.
I see. Please accept my contrafibularities.
http://www.lowyat.net/2014/03/was-there-a-problem-with-the-mh370-boeing-777-200-aircraft/
and
http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1zx8m5/china_times_reports_that_the_us_embassy_said_the/
My personal hunch is that the article on lowyat is right and the US military picked up a VHF signal. It's all conjecture though.
A note in the newspaper this morning said that they (interpol?) have been phoning crew mobiles, which have been "ringing out". That'd be odd if they were underwater (ref Metro, London).
"ringing out".
Means the plane went into the side of a hill or it crashed down onto land.
MH370 was NOT fitted with the SATCOM GSM-system.
It's a very strange affair this one.
A note in the newspaper this morning said that they (interpol?) have been phoning crew mobiles, which have been "ringing out".
Pretty sure that is nonsense. If the mobiles were intact, turned on, receiving a signal, and the numbers were known, then the authorities could get a cell tower triangulation on them.
Not super-accurate that far from multiple towers, but it'd be a lot less than the reported "hundreds of square miles" search area.
the metro is the same people(ish) as the daily mail so a pinch of salt...
and an awful lot of supposition and extrapolation in that lowyat article
as for the reddit US military thing, who knows but I think the general rule is that if you saw it on the internet its probably made up is advisable
the mobile phone issue was explained fairly early on...it's an artifact of the mobile network not knowing which cellphone tower to contact as the mobile has dissappeared off the network
If you are looking for cuting edge insight into anything...I'd avoid the Metro
have a look at the thread on Pprune if you really want some proper analysis of whats going on.
If you want a sensible analysis of what happened, don't go anywhere near pprune!
TrekEX8 - MemberIf you want a sensible analysis of what happened, don't go anywhere near pprune!
I'll rephrase itthen
If you want to know what a few airline pilots and lots of pilot wannabees think...then have a read of Pprune
A quote from Pprune this morning:
have a look at the thread on singletrackworld if you really want some proper analysis of whats going on.
If you are really bored you can join in the search, apparent spotting of plane shaped object at following link. (map 6060)
http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014/map/6060
A quote from Pprune this afternoon:
If you want a sensible analysis of what happened, don't go anywhere near STW!
From Mashable, detailing report of burning aircraft from NZ oil worker: http://mashable.com/2014/03/12/malaysia-airlines-370-search-area/
Although the oil company say they have no record of that person on the oil rig 😐
[img] 
[/img]
Has anyone blamed aliens yet? Seems like the most logical solution!
sharkbait - Member
Although the oil company say they have no record of that person on the oil rig
That I hadn't heard. Curiouser and curiouser, said Alice.
Guardian has report linked to Wall Street Journal that says US investigators have looked at the automatically reported engine data that Rolls Royce collects and that this shows plane continued to fly for 4hrs after contact lost
Might be behind pay wall
this shows plane continued to fly for 4hrs after contact lost
And the Malaysian 'authorities' now say that that wasn't the case...... oh yeah and the Chinese images are not of plane wreckage and were released by mistake - WTF is wrong with these people?
Regardless of the outcome the Malaysians are going to come out of this looking like they can't be trusted to organise a brewery-based evening drink.
Antigee, a graphic from that WSJ report for you;
[img] 
[/img]
Oh yeah..... and why don't RR confirm whether or not they received engine data 4 hours after the plane 'disappeared'?
I'm sure smarter people than me have already considered this, but:
[img] 
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North Korea would be about 4 hours away?
North Korea would be about 4 hours away?
Interesting idea..off course then shot down by NK. I bet they have good surface to air missiles?
Four hours off course? It's not like they navigate by sextant any more.
It's all just baffling.
IF, and i mean IF, the chinese satellite images were correct, those are some big pieces of plane, wing size pieces of plane, therefore they would have had to hit the ocean at relatively low impact for bits that big to be left. So if that was the case, why no mayday on the way down?
It honestly wouldn't surprise me if this aircraft turned up at an abandoned airport somewhere.
This will help
"I think the plane is still in the air or has crashed into the sea". He said he arrived at this conclusion using, "a fish trap hook and a bamboo binocular to search and ask for the victims to be found as soon as possible."
It honestly wouldn't surprise me if this aircraft turned up at an abandoned airport somewhere.
Anyone else going to lose the rest of the day to reading Tintin?
did the tintin plane land on a short runway that turned out to be a conveyor belt?
Anyone else going to lose the rest of the day to reading Tintin?
According to that map up there, the aircraft could have reached the island in Flight 714 as well.
did the tintin plane land on a short runhat turned out to be a conveyor belt?
🙂 Temporary runway, with a big net to catch the plane.
Oh yeah..... and why don't RR confirm whether or not they received engine data 4 hours after the plane 'disappeared'?
Because if they started issuing press releases it would confuse the issue. A lot of people seem to be under the misapprehension that the most important thing is keeping the public informed and that if we haven't been told about something it's not happening. I'm sure RR are busy talking to the authorities about what data they do or don't have. If the Malaysian authorities have said that there is no data for the extra 4 hours claimed and RR haven't contradicted them (as they surely would if there was obvious misinformation concerning them, notwithstanding my comment above), then I think we can be fairly confident there is no data.
I also think it's a little unfair to blame the Malaysians for all the conspiracy theories and rumours being published from unofficial sources - I don't think there has been an awful lot wrong with the official dissemination of information. They don't know anything and they're happily admitting that. It's the absence of info which is feeding the rumour mill though - if anybody has a brewery related party problem it's the world media.
Spot on aracer.
So four hours running would take it to Beijing.......... has anyone actually checked to make sure it didn't land?
Anyone thought to look on eBay for a buckshee 777 on a cheap BIN auction?
[quote=sharkbait said]Oh yeah..... and why don't RR confirm whether or not they received engine data 4 hours after the plane 'disappeared'?
Don't think continual streaming of engine data to RR came in until after the 777 engines (according to an aircraft engineer mate of mine).
