some think tank modelling in....
While support for household and business energy bills makes a material difference to economic growth in the short term, we find that the growth plan tax cuts have an almost negligible impact on the size of the economy by the end of the forecast period, with output only around 0.4 per cent higher by 2027–28 than it would have been without the tax cuts. The growth plan’s tax measures therefore look set to fall well short of the chancellor’s stated aim of boosting GDP growth back to 2.5 per cent from the OBR’s previous assessment of trend growth settling at around 1.7 per cent per year.
With the economy ending the forecast period 0.4 per cent bigger than it would be without the growth plan, additional tax revenue from this higher economic output pushes in the other direction. However, we estimate that this revenue boost is likely to be only around £6 billion by 2027–28 – a small fraction of the fiscal cost of the measures themselves.
another predicts...
+0.1% per year gdp for 82 billion in debt interest over 5 years
So they are going to sit on the OBR forecast for over 6 weeks.
Surely this gives the opposition another stick to beat them with - can they really justify a lack of urgency?
The Guardian: Treasury will delay publishing OBR forecast by six weeks after it is delivered on 7 October – UK politics live.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/sep/30/liz-truss-kwasi-kwarteng-obr-mini-budget-uk-politics-live
So they are going to sit on the OBR forecast for over 6 weeks.
gives the Spivs in selected firms a chance to peruse it and formulate the asset grab.
A handy little website created to give some scale of the cost of this budget. (be prepared for a lot of scrolling)
Delaying release if the OBR forecast shows utter contempt for the public, parliament and the OBR.
In that 6 week window truss and kwarteng will be hoping the markets find something positive in their plans, that BoE will provide unlimited support, that $ and € will weaken, that public anger will fade, that *something* will happen to distract.
Complete fantasy.
How long before the OBR forecast, or parts of it, leak?
andy - that's gobsmacking (in a very bad way). I'd love to see it laid out flat in a single view. How long would it be?
They are delaying it so they can can edit the next mini budget to suit / counter any negatives that come from it with minimal negative press. It’s pretty obvious.
But, it’ll leak anyway.
I think they are just hoping for a miracle to distract from their ineptitude
I don't think they have the first clue about how they'll produce a balanced budget
This might sound like a stupid question on the subject of interest rates... I get putting rates up makes cost of borrowing more expensive so people spend less. But for people with existing mortgages, putting rates up (on money they have already borrowed) does sweet FA and only benefits the bank as they earn more money from the extra interest. I guess that also leave you with less money to spend which is the goal but basically free money for the bank to get richer..
What am I missing here?
Delaying release of the OBR forecast shows utter contempt for the public, .
Ah well, looks like I agree with the tories on one thing at least 🙂
They did after all vote the tories into government.
What am I missing here?
The fact that the bank has borrowed the money it lent you and its interest cost has gone up.
And that by putting interest rates up itnmakes it more attractive to folk to lend to uk government this improving the exchange rate
I did a 'fag-packet' calculation on the 2.5% growth target versus £45bn in reduced tax revenue.
UK GDP is around £2.2tn (2021)
2.5% of that is £55bn.
I will assume that figure is taxed at a flat rate of 20%, which is probably not far off reality.
That's $11bn per year.
So, you may have another £50 in your back pocket but remember public services will be $34bn in the hole. Every year.
Feel free to contradict me.
The growth should compound over time, so 2.5 then 5.1, 7.7, 10.5 etc. After 5 years I could see how it could add up
What good is “growth” if 99% of people end up with lower real incomes, less access to essential services, worse quality of life… all while we deepen our dependence on climate change causing fossil fuels and leave the NHS stretched to breaking point?
What good is “growth” if 99% of people end up with lower real incomes, less access to essential services, worse quality of life…
I think you have answered your own question there....... it's great news for the 1%
Agreed.
'Growth' is Labour's re-wording of trickle down. Produce a lot more your bosses and you might get a few extra crumbs. There's no suggestion of anything redistributive or compensating for inflation, inequality is preserved. The message is, ' don't strike but work harder'.
You know the financial sector's response to this budget was hugely disproportionate to what was *going* to happen - I mean some of these tax cuts aren't going to happen for a long while.
Doesn't add up to me. Tory comes in and offers Tory type *benefits* to society - sterling does a backflip - people do very well out of shorting and pumping.
BoE does its thing and reminds us that everything is ultimately back-stopped by government money.
It doesn't make sense - you can whittle on all you want about the OBR but these tax cuts are nowhere near being rolled out, and well within Tory values.
In fact the bond market is effectively controlled by the government - they set the rates etc.
https://twitter.com/NathanTankus/status/1575869862534008832?t=CT0WeRoRfKeJPrdhdG0x4A&s=19
Why did it take a pound drop (which has been dropping for years) for everyone to shit the bed with the Tories? They've done far worse things and spent far bigger amounts of money.
I've done all the analysis I could this week being busy myself but I can't figure it out.
Anyway my next guess for what could happen is for DXY (dollar dominance) to lose some of its strength - house prices to perhaps start to take a hit and that in and out of recession number to start to have a direction.
It's all really odd.
I'm still not sold on this massive Labour lead either - all the shit that has happened and this week a massive jump in polling.
Also - proof that chucking pensions to the financial sector is just a lottery.
Like everything else.
This oldish Tweet from Kelton really hits the spot.
https://twitter.com/StephanieKelton/status/1364059199123165185?t=MMrnSdYjLWflyrYGZ4UtSQ&s=19
Keep it up rone, you’ll get to a fully-fledged conspiracy theory eventually.
Keep it up rone, you’ll get to a fully-fledged conspiracy theory eventually
Cheers for that - there is a danger of that but if you can piece it together you're a better person than me.
That wasn't really where I was going though was it?
It doesn’t make sense
There’s you’re problem, right their.
You’re looking for rationality and logic where none exists. It never has.
That way lies madness
There’s you’re problem, right their.
You’re looking for rationality and logic where none exists. It never has.
That way lies madness
Where people need to make money in markets there is definitely a logic, otherwise reconcile me a direction?
Your favourite topic -Brexitism for instance, you need to come down on a side - was it done because people were crazy or did some know they were going to make a boat load?
‘Growth’ is Labour’s re-wording of trickle down.
I think Labour laid out very clearly what their intentions were growth wise at conference, and it had nothing to do with trickle down. Their condemnation of trickle down nonsense has been robust. You couldn’t have missed it.
As for Rone’s posts… surely it can be both… some people connected to the decision makers making big money out of shorting where the decisions made create big opportunities there, and also people (sometimes the same people) wanting to redistribute money upwards from all of us and from our state to the rich and often out of the country.
Your favourite topic -Brexitism for instance, you need to come down on a side – was it done because people were crazy or did some know they were going to make a boat load?
Brexit happened predominantly because so many people thought David Cameron was a **** and thought that registering that fact with a vote would be a bit of a laugh
Sad but true
The only thing I can see is things are so much in tatters every free-loading millionaire is looking to milk the economic descent as much as possible.
I never thought Naomi Klein meant particularly this with the Shock Doctrine but clearly it is so.
Brexit happened predominantly because so many people thought David Cameron was a **** and thought that registering that fact with a vote would be a bit of a laugh
Sad but true
But equally do you believe as you've said many times a lot of people were going to make a lot of money out of it?
I mean you can see some sort of evidence for that this week.
But on the flip side eurozone has massive inflation and weak to the dollar too.
Things perhaps simple culminate in all sorts of awkward ways.
I mean we were all talking recession (including the BoE) and yet the revised growth figures are not quite showing it.
I do wish these stupid central banks would realise they aren't fixing inflation though.
As for Rone’s posts… surely it can be both… some people connected to the decision makers making big money out of shorting where the decisions made create big opportunities there, and also people (sometimes the same people) wanting to redistribute money upwards from all of us and from our state to the rich and often out of the country
Yeah I agree.
But my point from the outset is Truss offered a very Tory vision and the market shot off in the other direction.
After government money to prop it up?
The only thing I can see is things are so much in tatters every free-loading millionaire is looking to milk the economic descent as much as possible.
Agreed… we’ve been saying this since 2016… lots of money to be made out of instability. They would describe that as making the UK economy leaner and more responsive rather than a “descent”… but the deregulation, extraction of money from normal people and our country, and increasing job and financial insecurity for UK workers will look much the same to most of us in the 99%.
But equally do you believe as you’ve said many times a lot of people were going to make a lot of money out of it?
Abso-****ing-lutely I do!
The Shock Doctrine was prophecy! We are now Pinochets Chile, economically. A free market experiment
Kwatangs budget on Friday was a logical post-Brexit staging post. As will be the huge cuts to public services, further tax giveaways to the rich and corporations and massive deregulation
It’s all part of ‘the project’ and they’re only just getting started
Agreed… we’ve been telling you this since 2016… lots of money to be made out of instability. They would describe that as making the UK economy leaner and more responsive rather than a “descent”… but the deregulation, extraction of money from normal people and our country, and increasing job and financial insecurity for UK workers will look much the same to most of us in the 99%.
Then you would be simply ignoring what went before - in 2008 for instance.
(I can tell you now though the asset class prefer bull markets to make cash in.)
Economic collapse is not simply a Brexit watershed.
Abso-****ing-lutely I do!
The Shock Doctrine was prophecy! We are now Pinochets Chile, economically. A free market experiment
But Klein was not particularly an EU advocate if I remember correctly. She just writes about the economic aftermath of catastrophic events. I get the connection though.
As I've just pointed out to Kelvin - free-market self destruction did not start with Brexit.
In fact there is way way too much emphasis put on that.
Kwatangs budget on Friday was a logical post-Brexit staging post.
In no way shape or form.
It was simple traditional Tory misunderstanding of growth by tax cuts, because that's what they believe.
I keep pointing out to you Ireland has a very low corporation tax rate in the EU. (12.5%)
It’s all really odd.
When the herd turns…
It’s just this is not the political herd. I think there was a relatively widespread view that interest rates needed to rise and the BoE were dragging their feet. That the fundamentals of the economy weren’t great. The announcement of an unfounded cut in taxes (quantitative easing) without any evidence of forethought was enough to push the market. Whether a costed projection would have helped, who knows?
Interestingly, people mocked epidemic projections that are subject to exponential error rates, but they swallow economic forecasts. Economics ought to be relatively linear over the short term, but now I’m not so sure!
Then you would be simply ignoring what went before
Not all. Perhaps rewind and play the BBC’s far too late Radio4 piece on the IEA etc, and their role in earlier stages in this process, especially in wake of 2008. Same people, same combination of ends. The pressure to reshape UK politically and economically is ongoing. It didn’t start or end with Brexit. To paraphrase another forum member (Bruce), Brexit is not the destination, it’s just part of the journey. The acceleration of the redistribution of wealth upwards, the defunding of public services, deregulation in terms of financial services, employment, the environment and public health… it’s all an ongoing project.
In no way shape or form.
It was simple traditional Tory misunderstanding of growth by tax cuts, because that’s what they believe.
I keep pointing out to you Ireland has a very low corporation tax rate in the EU. (12.5%)
Corporation tax is a red herring. A distraction. Of little or no consequence as it’s generally avoided anyway
It’s all the other stuff that’s the issue.
Shrinking the state. Ultimately these lot see the UK government being a central office in London, where they dish out contracts to private companies to provide the lowest possible base level of ‘services’
Meanwhile a deregulated financial sector acts as money launderers for dodgy international capital and a sweatshop economy, stripped of workers rights, undercuts our neighbours
Once you accept that this was (and is) very much the plan, and the whole point of Brexit, it all makes a lot more sense
Brexit was just the necessary beginning as they needed to be ‘free’ of the EU to make their dream a reality, which Truss and Kwatang just demonstrated; it now is
The announcement of an unfounded cut in taxes (quantitative easing) without any evidence of forethought was enough to push the market. Whether a costed projection would have helped, who knows
That's what I'm hearing.
The trouble is for them is the were going to unwind Q/E very shortly and couldn't say they were doing more. But it was on the cards they absolutely had to. That was the main error.
I guess it's just the contradictions involved to pretend the government doesn't have money of its own.
Best just to sit back and realise tuff doesn't go positive forever. I mean how long ago the last proper house price crash?
What gets me is Germany has a high tax highly regulated economy and has been stable and prosperous. Can they simply not see that.
As for first world economies that are similar to what truss wants look to the us. Yes its happened slowly there but look what a low tax low regulations economy brings. People without effective healthcare and eff all public services with massive poverty and a huge drug problem
Meanwhile a deregulated financial sector acts as money launderers for dodgy international capital and a sweatshop economy, stripped of workers rights, undercuts our neighbours
Once you accept that this was (and is) very much the plan, it all makes a lot more sense
Thought you said there was not really a plan and it's all just crazy?
Corporation tax is not a red herring otherwise we wouldn't have spent ages discussing it in previous posts. Most companies don't avoid it. Some do. And it's as easy to avoid income tax as corporation tax if you're loaded. Trusst me - my mate's wife was a top avoidance specialist to the rich and famous.
We have operated on sweatshop economies for years as we import nearly everything.
This is not news.
What gets me is Germany has a high tax highly regulated economy and has been stable and prosperous. Can they simply not see that
Oh they see it alright. That’s the very last thing this lot want
What gets me is Germany has a high tax highly regulated economy and has been stable and prosperous. Can they simply not see that.
Germany manufacturs stuff doesn't it -but it has to be said exports are swap of limited real resources for money which is not.
We should absolutely not have destroyed our manufacturing base though.
Also Germany has 10% CPI - it is not immune
Are we talking down the importance of exports and trade now are we? 🙈
Thought you said there was not really a plan and it’s all just crazy?
Eh? I’m saying the polar opposite of that.
There’s always been a plan (see my previous posts), it’s just that it’s being carried out by incompetent ****-wits and enabled and voted for by morons
Ok, I didn’t take account of compound growth. However, that principle applies to government spending aswell so may just cancel itself out. Either way, we can’t ignore the fact this ‘strategy’ will increase inequality across the economy.
More targeted support for household bills, longer term investments and tax on excesses are what we really need.
Anyway… back to Liz and Kamikwazi’s budget…
I see they’re doubling down yet again (tripling down? Quadrupling?…) and both have published articles today (Sun and Telegraph respectively) saying ‘there is no option’ and are also refusing to publish any independent assessments until 23rd November
Everyone feel reassured then? Good
Move along now. Nothing to see here
Either way, we can’t ignore the fact this ‘strategy’ will increase inequality across the economy.
They are even telling us that is the plan, they aren’t hiding it.
“For too long the debate in this country has been about distribution rather than how we grow our economy”
They think reducing inequity is a barrier to growth (it is not), and either that increasing inequity can create growth or is an unavoidable cost of growth (nonsense, and even if that was true, what’s the point in growth that makes 99% of us worse of with worse quality of life?!).
what we really need
Only if the ‘we’ that you refer to are the 99% of this country.
The 1% who are well and truly steering the ship now think very differently. The 99% are the cash cattle to keep the 1% enjoying the lifestyle, power, and prestige that they are used to, and more. They think that the 99% need to have enough health to work, and die off as quickly as possible once they can’t work. They need to be kept subdued and distracted, and they need to be controlled. Nothing more, because they (we) are cattle. The whole economic system is designed to keep the 99% from being able to accumulate assets of any significance, and to milk them financially to within an inch of their lives.
This is pure strain capitalism.
It was simple traditional Tory misunderstanding of growth by tax cuts, because that’s what they believe.
Yup, they genuinely want to believe it imo, although like the punter in the casino I am sure they are fully aware that much of it is dependent on luck.
And Truss's recent comments suggests that her faith in the 'tax cuts will generate more money for the government' narrative is weak, as she now suggests that departmental "efficiency" is easily achievable - presumably because of 12 years of spendthrift Tory governments.
"I'm certainly not talking about public spending cuts, what I'm talking about is raising growth.
"I want people to be able to keep hold of their own money, but we'll also have more money to spend on our public services over the long term."
Opposition parties really should mercilessly exploit the U-turns and lies, and relentlessly bang on about how everyone will be paying for low corporation tax and more money in the pockets of the 1%.
it’s just that it’s being carried out by incompetent ****-wits and enabled and voted for by morons
So the government are half-wits and voters are morons, any idea how we can improve the intelligence of voters to match yours binners?
Other than genocide, for which I already have plans, I’m afraid we’re ****ed for the time being comrade
Other than genocide, for which I already have plans
Our glorious masters will be well ahead of you on that one. I'm waiting for them to pull the winter fuel allowance to 'balance the books'. It's an obvious double win for them.
And Tufton St is in favour:
And Tufton St is in favour
those hit "might not be around" by next election
Alex wild is someone important inside the Tory party now, isn’t he? TPA (or one of their other branches of the same shady as hell think tank group destroying the UK) will still be on the BBC giving an independent spin on whatever he and his party doing do to us… won’t they.
It's hard to keep track of where the shady, amoral, Tufton St drones pop up.
Even their own shill organisations are having trouble:
https://twitter.com/DrMatthewSweet/status/1575772871007141889
I suppose it falls on us to complain long and hard when the BBC, or other media outlets, falls back on one of their opaquely-funded propaganda outlets for easy comment. I'm pretty sure I picked up the phone to the TPA when I was a younger, more naive journo there.
That’s the bit which annoys me most. 2.5% growth won’t create enough tax revenue to cover the £45bn in cuts!
You would need over 10% growth for that.
How about helping manufacturing to be more competitive by giving aid for new technologies? Training programmes to improve productivity? Investment in R&D for new energy sources eg hydrogen? National electric car charging network.
They don't care though.
Shrink the state and outsource everything to give their mates more money is the agenda here.
The only hope is that enough tory mp's decide they are going to lose their seats anyway and vote against this shower of shite
At last....... among all the economic doom and gloom a bit of good news:
The UK’s largest banks are set to make bumper income from rocketing rates of interest at the same time as they pull mortgage merchandise from the cabinets and depart savers with meagre returns on their deposits.
The largest home banks — NatWest, Lloyds and Barclays — are estimated to extend revenues by £12bn from 2022 to 2024
I'm no economist but that sounds great!
I hate to see the banks struggling.
Thank god that proper bonuses will be awarded to those responsible too! Lizzie has finally sorted that injustice!
It’s a win/win for everyone
oops, just can't help themselves can they
Can we have our country back, please?
https://twitter.com/gabriel_pogrund/status/1576264767580164096?s=21
I’ve got to say I find the whole situation completely depressing. It’s clear from the government releasing they have screwed up as government bonds have gone up, that they will have to cut back, like benefits no longer being inflation linked. At the time when additional rate tax is removed and banker bonus caps are removed. Can there every have been a government more divorced from reality?
You do have to wonder why the markets weren’t filled with confidence at the realisation that batshit-crazy right wing thinktanks and lobbyists were now sat in Downing Street writing government policy?
I get the plan now, I can't believe they're actually doing this, it'll be the death of the Party, prepare for another shafting in November
I've got twins aged 3 next Jan, I was hoping the childcare costs would come down a touch to give us some daylight, that's another worry now, not sure they'd be able to action it in Wales.
Take it a part bit by bit as quickly as possible - has to lead to civil unrest no?
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1576261348295589889?t=4l4aPehn6pRjVQZ_3hCh6g&s=19
Pay-wall but you get the picture.
... Trouble is, to call people out for being conspiracists in the world of high finance is to give the industry a clean bill of health that is actually rotten to its core. Knowingly.
I mean back in 2007/2008 knowingly trading poor quality (repackaged in dodgy tranches) CDOs (that they knew would fall apart) - even with a triple AAA rating and then shorting the market - well, we know what followed.
Assets are leaving in droves to the dollar - historically when this happens some sort of collapse follows.
Let's be clear here the markets are as much part of the problem rather than it being a victim.
You do have to wonder why the markets weren’t filled with confidence at the realisation that batshit-crazy right wing thinktanks and lobbyists were now sat in Downing Street writing government policy?
Well some most definitely were.
Volatility is good for traders. Not for stability of course.
Either way government money will get spent as usual to make this all work, when the same money could've have been spent on the public good, and ironically creating proper growth. With know tax involved.
it's not just the Tories though here , we are in a terrible global backdrop of poor decisions. The FED hell-bent on its mission. Inflation still going up despite interest rate rise.
We said ages ago interest rises are not the solution.
They simple don't know how to fix it either.
Interest rate rises and market volatiy is now just the side show, the next game in town is how far they'll go with cut backs and austerity measures to pay for this.
Remove tax, remove handouts
Week before December when everyone will already be feeling the effects of massive fuel bills and much higher mortgage rates if they were not lucky enough to fix long term
I can see the young getting screwed again and the triple lock potentially remaining in place
It'll make them unelectable for years if they go through with their plan, even against a rosey backdrop it's hard to implement, doing it against a back drop of the cost of living crises is insane for the party. They need to force that budget forward and find a way to stop her
Can we have our country back, please?
I suspect asking nicely is not going to cut it. We will have to rekindle the fear and respect of the electorate in our rulers.
Truss said this morning on the Kuensberg interview that she remains committed to the triple lock.
About the only part of the welfare budget or the public sector that she will commit to
Everything else is in the chopping block and in-line for enormous cuts
Looks like there’s a rebellion in the offing from the few remaining sane Tory MPs left after the previous Brexiteer purge. If only for their own self-interest in keeping their seats. They know these policies are electoral suicide
Liz is too ideologically blinded to see it and doesn’t seem to care much anyway
Ill bet she goes after my NHS pension. Its indexed linked iirc. Ill bet that is broken.
Nhs and other similar pensions have been the subject of a campaign of lies for a long time. That's been the preparation for an attack on them. Already the NHS scheme has been made much worse for new entrants. Ill bet my house there is an attack on these pensions on bogus grounds of affordability.
Just to say that if i wasn't getting my meagre NHS pension i would be on disability benefits.
Ill bet she goes after my NHS pension. Its indexed linked iirc. Ill bet that is broken
You can take that as read. Absolutely everything is now fair game for this lot. Their disaster capitalist owners are calling in their payments
The ‘opportunities of Brexit’ are about to become very real… for the 1%
For the rest of us… austerity on steroids
Dont worry Jake Berry has the answer.
10years my fellow ****s of Rossendale have voted for him.
Wage inflation is a higher paid job though. Or am I missing something.
It’s not about people getting higher paid jobs really, it’s about telling people that if they aren’t paid enough, it’s their own fault. Or more important for us all to think of our fellow Brits in that way… “people aren’t struggling because of government decisions, they are struggling because they are too lazy to work longer and harder or to go and get a better paid job”… it’s the basis of the Britannia Unchained doctrine. Not sure it’ll be swallowed so easily when more and more people are finding times tough.
rone
Full Member… Trouble is, to call people out for being conspiracists in the world of high finance is to give the industry a clean bill of health that is actually rotten to its core. Knowingly.
I mean back in 2007/2008 knowingly trading poor quality (repackaged in dodgy tranches) CDOs (that they knew would fall apart) – even with a triple AAA rating and then shorting the market – well, we know what followed.
So, one of my brother's first jobs with RBOS was basically backtracking and reporting historic mistakes, since they'd been so full of the certainty of their genius and/or a knowledge that if they looked too closely they'd find problems and so they just refused to look, that they didn't have good reportage of some major recent-historic decisions. A sort of financial pathologist.
Anyway RBOS had fallen totally in love with the repackaging of bad risk into CDOs that could then be rubber stamped AAA by a friendly credit agency and as if by magic turned into assets. Amazeballs, you can just basically squash em together and wrap them up and suddenly that liability that was dragging you down can be sold to someone else at a profit. And also because of the AAA rating, they can continue to treat it as an asset too even though it isn't. It's perfect, basically a way of just erasing risk from balance-sheet existence, even though it still exists.
But of course, that cut both ways, and they were at the same time actively buying other people's CDOs that were actually bad risks, in the full knowledge that everything they were selling was a jobby rolled in gold leaf. But despite knowing this, they still managed to pretend that everything they were buying was a genuine AAA bundle, solid gold, despite the smell. Delusional, stupid or fraudulent, it's almost impossible to know now. Let's be charitable and call it a mistake.
So that's the obvious mistake- they took what could have been the Magic Jobby Jettisoning Tool, and instead turned it into a Jobby Jettisoning and Obtaining Tool. And they managed to act as if the jobby jettisoned was a risk, but the equivalent jobby obtained using the exact same trick was an asset. And as soon as that was entered into the accounts, they just acted as if it were all true. Almost exactly like someone took a bag of money from a safe and replaced it with a jobby, but at the same time managed to believe that the jobby was worth the same as the money they'd taken out, as long as nobody looked. Schrodinger's Jobby.
But that's just the obvious mistake. Where my bro came in, was the Advanced Mistake, the one that you need really highly paid fiscal geniuses to make. Which is:
"Oh so we bought a bunch of shiny jobbies mistakenly believing them to be gold. (well, fraudulently, but you can't admit that or the whole financial system breaks instantly), but now we've looked at them and they have resolved their quantum-jobby state into being definitely just jobbies. ****! That's really bad. Unless... We repackage a whole of of these jobbies and sell them on as a super-jobby wrapped in basically the same gold leaf stretched even thinner." Moodys/whoever go, aye, sounds fine to us, we can clearly see it's shiny, nudge nudge wink wink"
But of course everyone else did the same! So <this> was what bro was discovering- RBOS had taken their jobbies, and sold them as assets to other banks. Those other banks had ALSO rolled them into superjobbies and at this point RBOS, despite fully understanding and participating in the scam, couldn't resist all those shinies.
So yes, they'd bought back a huge amount of their own jobbies, in many cases for more than they'd sold them for. the overall jobby count was pretty consistent but because of the creative accounting they'd turned them into a double loss simply by the power of imagination.
So yes, they’d bought back a huge amount of their own jobbies, in many cases for more than they’d sold them for. the overall jobby count was pretty consistent but because of the creative accounting they’d turned them into a double loss simply by the power of imagination.
A self perpetuating stream of shit?, yeah……..that just about sums it up perfectly
@northwind you managed to articulate it all there and make it poetry.
Everyone time get out your copy of margin call for this scene.
So U-turn on that tax rate cut? No surprises they clearly didn't like the polling on that.
Reality - they are going to have to lower tax rates for the lower end even more and try and stimulate the economy - whilst the BoE tries and puts the brakes on.
Finance at the levels we are discussing is gambling that mostly benefits the house.
Don't let anyone tell you it raises the most revenue for the country.
A an excellent MMT drawdown of recent events.
Northwinds post is essentially what is explained in ‘The Big Short’, just without Christian Bale and Steve Carell.
The ‘if you aren’t paid enough, it’s your fault, try harder, you are owed nothing’ is a VERY popular view in the US.
Not sure I get the u- turn, I mean I do on a superficial’feel good’ perspective, but if all this was a defined strategy to help the economy then that’s just ruined?
So what does this give the economy back in terms of improvement? I bet in reality it’s not much ?
