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I've said it before, I'll say it again, their beer tastes like petrol and their management are c____s. Why anyone's pint is BrewDog escapes me.
Any thoughts on this yourself?
All i'm reading in that article is some drama from a sacking, there's more to this than just the punchy headline, from the actual information, EDL had a rally in the area, the police told Brewdog they didn't have to shut the bar, some EDL/potential EDL members came in and had a drink, without any incidents, she said things to the manager that she later rolled back on.
All sounds a bit meh
Brew Dog have a history of behaving like dicks as individuals and as an organisation. I won't give them a penny of my money.
Support your local brewery, not some corporate shysters
(IMO) Mr J Watt is a absolute roaster and a plastic punk to boot.
Recently seen at Toad of Toad halls 60th birthday bash.
Says is all really.
I am an in the shit beer making money for grade A wallopers camp. They have been ****s from the start and the continue to be ****s. Similarly the beers have been and continue to be shite.
Beer for [s]punks[/s] ****s
I'm not trendy enough to hate a beer company and I frequent their bar in York where I'll enjoy a pizza, some very nice beers, chat to their very pleasant staff etc. But... I've found that buying their stuff from the supermarket in cans has become absolute filth. Got a pack of Punk the other day and its really, REALLY nasty - nothing like what it used to be.
Are we still closing posts with links but no commentary? Does it have to be reported?
Punk IPA is the Carling of modern beers.
"I’m not trendy enough to hate a beer company"
Strange thing to say.
Either the ethics of a company play part of your buying decision or they don't.
Personally they always have and so I've been ignoring Brewdog for some time due to the complete stroker in charge. It helps that it all tastes like pish though.
The add to Drac's comment. Please don't just create a new thread and simply add a link and no other comment from yourself.
Either the ethics of a company play part of your buying decision or they don’t.
Indeed, my dislike of the Brewdog management has SFA to do with being trendy,see also Wetherspoons and the many others that are on my avoidance list.
Punk IPA is the Carling of modern beers.
Except Carling tastes like bland but serviceable lager, and Punk IPA tastes like petrol
They started making all the right noises but once venture capital gets involved any ethics that may have been in place get lost in the need to pay the monthly dues to the money men.
They are firmly in my avoid buying or consuming camp.
I’m not trendy enough to hate a beer company and I frequent their bar in York where I’ll enjoy a pizza, some very nice beers, chat to their very pleasant staff etc. But… I’ve found that buying their stuff from the supermarket in cans has become absolute filth. Got a pack of Punk the other day and its really, REALLY nasty – nothing like what it used to be.
All of the above ^
All the 'their beer is *' nonsense is just tiresome willy waving. I've been drinking craft and cask beers for 20 years. I don't claim ANY expertise or qualification but have enjoyed plenty Brewdog offerings in the past.
That being said I rarely buy their tinned stuff any more, but I don't go about saying it's *, I just assume the recipe has changed or my tastes have changed.
Have also regularly enjoyed their pubs and food offerings and the staff in the bars always seem friendly and enthusiastic so another thumbs up.
To be fair to DrJ I'd argue the title of the thread is his comment and the link backs up why. Or am I missing a wider point, pretty sure I know where the Dr stands on this...
Edit: But yeah, Brewdog is gopping, the owner a dick and this just adds to the negativity I feel about the business.
Its an interesting issue - do you boycott companies that behave unethically? I do but I know many do not. I have a long list of companies I will not buy from - Wetherspoons, Brewdog, Starbucks, Amazon, Nestle etc etc I try to avoid all Isreali, japanese and american stuff but thats difficult.
some folk the ethics are important - some its not
Its an interesting issue – do you boycott companies that behave unethically?
That way lies madness though. There's booksellers that still use Amazon as their market place (for instance) so boycotting them totally is only really hurting me..Whole countries is the stuff of 6th form protest IMO, although if I'm shopping and food product has been flown in than further abroad than say southern Europe, I'll probably not bother.
I take it some of you will not be going to this weekends AGM then?
I'll be the one in the stw top 👍
Sent from my nuclear bunker!
Or high ethical standards?
Mleh, I live in the UK, at the fag end of consumer capitalism. We've all been knee deep in ethically challenged corporations all our lives knowingly or otherwise. Any corporation that gets over a certain size has got there through fair means and foul. Any meagre attempts I make to buy Fage* instead of Danone* aren't making the executive board of Nestle cry into their share reports.
*pulled out of my head for illustrative purposes only.
This must make buying bike parts difficult
It does but it possible - hence my Shand has nothing Japanese on it ( but I guess the tubeset is japanese?) the one thing that is really difficult is derailleurs but I do like a rohloff
Why Japanese out of curiosity?
The add to Drac’s comment. Please don’t just create a new thread and simply add a link and no other comment from yourself.
I thought my thread title was comment enough. Does it have to be spelled out?
Don't Shimano make some in Malaysia and Singapore?
Why Japanese out of curiosity?
Unethical behaviour. Killing whales for meat no one wants and albatrosses via long line catching for squid. They could easily modify the fleet of long line fishing boats to prevent this happening but because the fuss was made by western pressure groups they refused to do so. Same as the whales. No one in japan wants whale meat but they are not going to be told what to do by western pressure groups so continue to kill whales. Lots of other stuff as well but all seems petty .
Sure boycotts particularly by individuals makes little difference in most cases but some do. International isolation of South Africa helped end apartheid. Nestle and Barclays boycotts maybe made a little difference
the Japanese and American things are not a hard and fast rule - just that I will only use them as a last resort
Going back to the original point of the thread, did any of the suspected EDL members behave in a way that prompted "Miriam's" reaction or was their presence alone enough? The news report isn't clear on that.
*dons flameproof mankini and awaits the abuse*
My pints tonight came from a pub about eight miles from the one I was drinking in, which has its own brewery, and their brewmaster was originally with Guinness. They have a wide range of very fine beers indeed.
The pub/brewery is The Three Daggers, at Eddington between Melksham and Westbury in Wiltshire, and I was drinking their Ethandun 878.
It’s close to the site King Alfred the Great fought his decisive battle against the Viking army and established the first unified kingdom of England.
Just to show its got real history behind it, not some fabricated advertising bollocks.
I might be totally lost here however wasn't sick cycles second venture?
Going back to the original point of the thread, did any of the suspected EDL members behave in a way that prompted “Miriam’s” reaction or was their presence alone enough? The news report isn’t clear on that.
That would be my interest as well. Did they abuse her as bar staff, and were not get removed from the premises as any good licensee should when their staff are abused. Or was it simply she disagreed with their politics? You can’t really not serve someone in a pub because you don’t like what they believe. You’d rapidly run out of customers in some places.
Going back to the original point of the thread, did any of the suspected EDL members behave in a way that prompted “Miriam’s” reaction or was their presence alone enough? The news report isn’t clear on that.
*dons flameproof mankini and awaits the abuse*
Presumably they were wearing or saying enough to know who they were. If you know who they were and you happen to be a non **** you would know its not about politics its about hate. Accepting them in is legitimising their existence, being a racist **** isn't a protective blanket, they can absolutely be refused, juat like you can refuse football colours sprinkle some 88's, some swastikas and some SS tattooed badly on the knuckle draggers arms. Good for her for kicking up a fuss.
The biggest ****ing shock the fact a ****ing scottish company got their knickers in a twist about some ****ing swearing.
There is no mention of them causing any trouble in the pub, the only statement is miriam saying how their rallies always turn out violent, not even sure why Breiwdog is the big thing here (and especially on this thread), it's a basic set up for a tribunal, she said stuff she shouldn't, followed it up with texts, she went through disciplinary and was sacked, all this case should be about was whether this course of action by Brewdog was fair, without all the other drama being added to it.
You can’t really not serve someone in a pub because you don’t like what they believe.
Jesus, you can if what they believe causes distress and concern among your staff. You can of they believe they have space for a twelth pint. You can of they are wearing a football strip.
You can for lots of reasons. It's really not hard, an employee should feel safe stepping into their place of work. End. Of. Story.
I try to avoid all Isreali, japanese and american stuff but thats difficult.
And China? I find it hard to believe you can support the CCP by buying anything from China given your stance on other companies and countries
You can’t really not serve someone in a pub because you don’t like what they believe. You’d rapidly run out of customers in some places.
That's a very harsh criticism of the people visiting London. I suspect pubs and bars in Waterloo would do just fine without having to serve EDL members all dressed up and pumped up for one of their big days out.
I strongly suspect that if Brewdog were offered a partnership / buy in / take over / merger with a global brand and there was a potential multi million pay day it would be accepted.
The owners could then retire and live quite happily on the capital.
Which totally goes against all the start up , rebellious, anti established brewery war cries they banded around for the first 10 years or so.
Be next year probably. Someone like Heineken will structure a deal which will be acceptable.
Long before the stories emerged, I tried them (see advertising thread - it worked on me then) and found their product "wanting". The alleged bullying and Dulnain trashing was too late, they had lost me already.
Meh, thay're no different to the Nazi-supporting donut shop furore in leeds.
Always wary of any business which spends an inordinate amount of time & money curating an image around a bang average product.
The brains behind are often outed at some point as less than desirable characters, if your product is good it sells itself, but then does that speak also to a vacuous audience who lap that shit up?
Scenesters trying to cash in on the bandwagon filled with tedious hipsters trying too hard to be edgy, they weren't the first nor will they be the last.
So for all those that think it's just folk being "trendy" by avoiding them, just remember some folk know what was going on. One of our friends was a signatory on that letter and suffered sexual harassment under a completely disinterested management. That was in the York bar FWIW.
Even before that "equity for punks" was a blatant cash grab, shareholders in name only and the "discount" was less than what Tesco got. Obvious ****ers are obvious.
As for the Nazi donuts, friends in the same circle had them doing catering at their wedding (before it all came out). Oops.
As for the Nazi donuts, friends in the same circle had them doing catering at their wedding (before it all came out). Oops
Awks. I went once, the donuts where shipped in, they just iced them. Bang average product propped up by marketing aimed at people trying too hard to be 'unique'.
They were never aimed at hipsters (you know the ones who only drink genuine Andean beer in old jam jars).
They've been hard capitalists from day 1. "Punk" was just branding it was not cultural. The IPA was notable for being quite strong when it was first launched. I've never understood their popularity but I don't drink Skol super and bark at squirrels all day.
They've never been a premium product as it's always on offer somewhere, they even do offers on their own site where it can be as low as 50p a can.
They've clearly been very good at marketing in the past and built up the brand relying on people who don't care buying their crap beer
It does but it possible – hence my Shand has nothing Japanese on it ( but I guess the tubeset is japanese?) the one thing that is really difficult is derailleurs but I do like a rohloff
Italian tubeset on my Shand.
Italian saddle.
British (Hope) headset.
British (Rideworks) ecentric BB.
German Rohloff hub gear on Hope rims and swiss spokes.
German tyres.
British Hope front wheel and hub.
I think it's the 'peripherals' that end up being non-European.
- bars and stem (Richey, assume made in Taiwan).
- crank - assume Taiwan again
- Gates belt drive and sprockets... belt is American, sprockets, unsure location of manufacture.
- shifters - where are SRAM Force made ?
Nice to know its an italian tubeset. Ta
They’ve clearly been very good at marketing in the past and built up the brand relying on people who don’t care buying their crap beer
The problem is it's not crap - as many others on the thread have pointed out. . Just perusing the beer isle of my local super market reveals about , 20-30 worse beers that people buy in their droves due to it being cheap by the box.
Brewdog strikes a decent balance between cheap and nasty carling/tennants dishwater and artisnal double dry hopped wafted past a Thai green curry flavour at $$$$ a can with interesting beers without being stupidly priced.
They are one of a number of reasonably priced local breweries round here.
British (Hope) headset.
British (Rideworks) ecentric BB.
German Rohloff hub gear on Hope rims and swiss spokes.
German tyres.
British Hope front wheel and hub.
Supporting Gaza genocide, then ?
Interesting pile on for BrewDog on here.
I don’t see Sam Smiths regularly getting a pile on for their owner’s (arguably worse) views/behaviour.
Some thoughts, for what it’s worth, as a shareholder from the first offering:
James Watt is no longer CEO, although obviously remains a major shareholder.
I don’t shop on their online shop any more, and many of the beers I used to enjoy are no longer to my taste.
If I want a pint on the way home, I will sometimes pop into Waterloo. It is, by far, the worst managed of the BD bars I’ve been to in London.
It seems to get a lot of heat in the papers, but I wonder how many other massive pub brands treat their staff like crap too.
Seems like all the “craft-ish” breweries that get big turn into dicks eventually or get bought out by an in-Bev or similar (Meantime, Beavertown, I’m sure there are more examples).
I don’t see Sam Smiths regularly getting a pile on for their owner’s (arguably worse) views/behaviour.
That's a good point, I must admit I was completely ignorant about Smith Sr's behaviour until recently. Last time I was in one of their pubs it was just nice to have no Telly or music blaring, he seems to have completely lost the plot and ruined the name since then. More people should be talking about that.
Dunno about worse though, trans bashing and condoning sexual harassment is bad enough in its own right. I'd say equally bad.
Brewdog strikes a decent balance between cheap and nasty carling/tennants dishwater and artisnal double dry hopped wafted
So do plenty other beers.
YMMV but certain beers I don't drink because I don't like them. There are others I won't drink because they're just shit
Meanwhile there after others like BrewDog I won't drink cos the people involved or the company are pricks
Each to their own and all that.....
You can’t really not serve someone in a pub because you don’t like what they believe. You’d rapidly run out of customers in some places.
You absolutely can. Retailers are under no obligation to retail, they can refuse entry/service for wearing non-prescribed shoes. Whether that's a wise business decision is another matter.
I saw this literally last week, we'd pre-booked a function room in a pub and the gorillas on the door were trying to block ticket-holders from entering because they had boots on. We've just fallen out of a hacker conference mate, footwear is the least of your worries here.
This subject is interesting though. In one-coloured corner we have "black woman doesn't want to serve racists," in the other-coloured corner from a few years back we had "fundamental christians don't want to bake a gay cake." Seconds out, round two. We can't really have it both ways, I'm siding with both the Brewdog employee standing up for her principles and the cake-buyers not being prejudiced against; but this is a dichotomy, a bias of my own making, one of those states has to be wrong.
I strongly suspect that if Brewdog were offered a partnership / buy in / take over / merger with a global brand and there was a potential multi million pay day it would be accepted.
The owners could then retire and live quite happily on the capital.
I would be astonished if that wasn't their long-term plan from the outset.
Interesting pile on for BrewDog on here.
I don’t see Sam Smiths regularly getting a pile on for their owner’s (arguably worse) views/behaviour.
We-ell, the clue to the topic of discussion is in the thread title. Feel free to start a thread of your own, I am ignorant of any Sam Smith's wrongdoing beyond making - generously - mediocre ale.
I strongly suspect that if Brewdog were offered a partnership / buy in / take over / merger with a global brand and there was a potential multi million pay day it would be accepted.
The owners could then retire and live quite happily on the capital.
Which totally goes against all the start up , rebellious, anti established brewery war cries they banded around for the first 10 years or so.
They really sold out when they sold a large share to TSG and screwed over all their "equity punks" but they've had beer in Tescos since almost day 1. They've already had a multi million payout and were greedy for more, but covid ruined their chance to float so TSG's share is now worth ~£700m and increasing by 18% a year. That leaves bugger all for the other shareholders.
I’m gonna stick my neck out here and suggest the situation described in the article was pretty crap for all involved and serving the punters was the only pragmatic course of action.
If you’re working a bar for a relatively low wage, ejecting 10,15,20 guys, whatever it is, because you don’t like their politics is a big ask- especially if they are at that particular moment doing nothing except sitting having a drink.
Serving them and waiting for them to move on is often the only practical solution. Anyone who’s worked in a bar solo will know the feeling.
Its crap for everyone but let’s be honest- challenging them and asking them to leave could easily have ended in a trashed bar, assaults, injuries or worse.
Let’s be real. It’s easy to have principles when you’re not the one being asked to single handedly confront and eject a bunch of EDL guys for a minimum wage bar job.
For anyone curious about the Sam Smiths thing, check the Controversies section, beginning 2011.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Smith_Old_Brewery
In one-coloured corner we have “black woman doesn’t want to serve racists,” in the other-coloured corner from a few years back we had “fundamental christians don’t want to bake a gay cake.” Seconds out, round two. We can’t really have it both ways,
Not equivalent - refusing to serve racists is not prejudice. Refusing to serve gay folk is.
Its illegal to discriminate on grounds of race or religion in the supply of services - quite rightly. its not illegal to refuse to serve racists. Being a racist is not a protected characteristic,
Being a racist is not a protected characteristic,
But they're the most persecuted people in the UK!
The article doesn’t mention anything about the behaviour of the EDL members present, only that the woman saw them at the bar when she started work and went straight to her manager to complain. It doesn’t sound like anyone refused to serve them. However, the report mentions her language at this point and it’s given as the reason for dismissal.
I’m not condoning racism but it comes across as a non-story to me.
I was in a pub once, a chain pub, I think it was Stonegate when a bunch of EDL types rocked up en-route to somewhere else...
It's very difficult for the bar staff. as unless they cause a problem, there's no real reason to refuse service, despite they were all wearing black clothing adorned with questionable insignias and trying to be quite menacing, they didn't 'technically' do anything illegal.
They cleared off after one round, thankfully, as they got a frosty reception from the bar staff and the locals.