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It frigging well is NOT safe, because people are not expecting you to do it! If MLHs are oblivious to the world around them then chances are they won't see you flying up their inside when they finally do decide to pull in.
Who said anything about flying? I'm talking about doing 70, not 140 and weaving through traffic, and am always watching for erratic behavour in other drivers.
DO NOT undertake, kids! It makes for bedlam on the roads. Drive on i294 around Chicago for an example of this!
I don't live in Chicago, so it's a moot point. It's a simple fix though, if people didn't hog the middle lane, I'd never undertake. I'd never have to, and I'd never be able to.
Slightly off topic but what is it with people who tailgate on single carraigeways. I see it all the time, like yesterday travelling back down from Fort William.
Why sit five feet from the car in front constantly on and off the brakes. Either overtake or sit back the proper distance so other traffic can overtake.
. I moved into the middle lane and blipped my headlights to alert them to my presence, and they changed into the third lane.
LOL
CharlieMungus - MemberNo, I've never seen someone sit in the middle lane when there are no other cars around.
CharlieMungus - MemberSo far you've recommended undertaking on the motorway and told us that you drive with a defective speedo. Please do excuse me if I don't take your advice on safe driving practice too seriously
10% over-read on a car speedo is fairly normal. Some makes are worse for it than others, a Nisaan Terrano I once owned needed to be showing just over 80mph on the speedo to do a real 70mph as measured by GPS.
Charlie, just wondering where you live when you say you've never seen "someone sit in the middle lane when there are no other cars around".
The motorway network in northwestern england (M62, M57, M6, M56, M60) must have your share then!
there would not be a uniform 10% under reporting in all speedos, would there?
Where did I suggest it was uniform? I said "about", some are more, some are less. They're built to a tolerance, unlike many road users.
Speedos have to be calibrated to show a higher than true speed when the car is new to make sure that they never show a lower than true speed as the car ages and part tolerances shift. They're more accurate than they used to be but still usually 5mph too high at 70mph on the original tyres when new and correctly inflated.
Different tyres at different pressures shift things quite a bit and worn and under-inflated tyres can result in your trusty keeping-to-just-under-70-middle-lane-sitter actually travelling in synchrony with the HGV in the slow lane that's hard against its 56mph limiter.
Just let your foot off the accelerator!
I had a guy tailgating me a couple of years ago. Coming to some traffic lights on red and I let the car roll to a halt, he went ballistic because I didn't use my brakes!! 😯 ****a!
Underreading speedo here too. Mine is aboout 6 miles fast at 70.
Almost universal in my experience, hence why performance tests on cars never rely on the speedo alone
Charlie, just wondering where you live when you say you've never seen "someone sit in the middle lane when there are no other cars around".
Well, when I see them, there is usually at least one other car around
I'd hope that you see them from so far away that there is no justification for their road position. Or are your usual motorways unusually bendy?
Where did I suggest it was uniform? I said "about", some are more, some are less.
here
most consumer speedometers underread by about 10%
I said "most" and "about", is that ambiguous somehow?
My understanding is that the "you can pass in any lane" rule applies when lanes are congested and moving at similar speeds - perhaps within 5mph of each other - which makes sense because changing lanes in these circumstances is very tricky to plan and disrupts overall flow. So you go with the traffic in your lane regardless of passing on the left.
It's really about planning. I don't think changing lanes is normally dangerous if planned. I don't think lane hoggers are observing and planning. Who knows if they will pull back into the outside lane just as you are trying to pass!?
Has anyone ever seen anyone pulled over for hogging the middle lane?
middle lane hoggers are fat and they need the inside and outside lane space to generate air flow round their tubby mass to keep them cool - Fact!
They over-read anyway, not under-read.
Who knows if they will pull back into the outside lane just as you are trying to pass!?
Presumably you mean 'inside' here, but you're right, the same could be said of any overtaking manoeuvre.
They over-read anyway, not under-read.
Sorry, yes, typo. Should be clear from context what I meant though.
Underreading speedo here too. Same with every car we've had when compared to GPS or even on one of those "test your speedo" sections of road (not seen one of them in a while!).
So I'd have to agree with Cougar. Underreading is the norm.
Or "overread" .... errr.. "overreporting"?
Cougar - Member
I said "most" and "about", is that ambiguous somehow?
Not at all, it is the 'most' which implies the uniformity. The 'about' implies that it is uniform around the 10% mark.
It is when I've tried it - in four or five cars.
Interestingly in the US it's spot on. Which is another reason their cars appear to get crap MPG - they are actually driving faster.
Has anyone ever seen anyone pulled over for hogging the middle lane?
Yes.
Has anyone ever seen anyone pulled over for hogging the middle lane?
Not pulled, but the Guardia Civil told the driver to move lanes.
Clarification please:
Inside lane - on the inside of the road, nearest the barrier
Outside lane - on the outside of the road nearest the hard shoulder
Is that right?
[i]No, I've never seen someone sit in the middle lane when there are no other cars around. [/i]
I have. I was driving up the M6 once in a Merc Sprinter and in front of me was the usual myopic pillock in a Rover doing about 55mph. Nothing in sight in the inside lane at all. I was gaining on him, still no reaction so, being a typical white van man, I flashed my lights and eventually he got the message, pulled in and gesticulated angrily for me to come past. As soon as I had passed, he pulled out into the middle lane again! WTF?!
that's right, but the hard shoulder on the other side
No - hard shoulder, inside lane, middle lane, outside lane, barrier.
I was driving a white van up the M6 once and in front of me was the usual myopic pillock in a Rover doing about 55mph. Nothing in sight in the inside lane at all. I was gaining on him, still no reaction so, being a typical white van man, I flashed my lights and eventually he got the message, pulled in and gesticulated angrily for me to come past. As soon as I had passed, he pulled out into the middle lane again! WTF?!
why all the flashing and so on? Why not just ease into the overtaking lane early, pass him, them smoothly back into the inside lane where you started
No - hard shoulder, inside lane, middle lane, outside lane, barrier.
You sure? So the inside lane is on the outside, and the outside lane is on the inside?
As soon as I had passed, he pulled out into the middle lane again! WTF?!
😆
I've seen it more times than I remember. Sometimes rather than overtake or undertake I'll just sit behind the middle lane driver (not tailgating but close enough, you understand) Most move over reasonably quickly but I would say half move back to the middle lane once I've passed!
I've seen it more times than I remember. Sometimes rather than overtake or undertake I'll just sit behind the middle lane driver (not tailgating but close enough, you understand) Most move over reasonably quickly but I would say half move back to the middle lane once I've passed!
But then you would have to move into their lane to do this? Why bother?
RealMan - MemberNo - hard shoulder, inside lane, middle lane, outside lane, barrier.
You sure? So the inside lane is on the outside, and the outside lane is on the inside?
You need to forget about the other side of the motorway and then that makes sense.
Has anyone ever seen anyone pulled over for hogging the middle lane?Yes.
In this country? How long had they been lingering there?
As your speedo takes it's info from the final drive it is all done on the tyre circumference and as a trey wears this changes but quite some size. Think about it the difference in tread hight from new to worn of 8 mm per side plus most. Cars have 2 pressure settings depending on the cars usage or if it's fully loaded.
I have seen plenty of people pull on the m27 an go straight in to the middle lane even though the only other car is me and I'm going faster than them.
It was on the way to a two week trip in France, so it was hardly the high light of the trip, but I'm pretty sure it was England.
And I'm not quite sure, I was just a passenger, I don't drive myself. They did have 2 other cars sitting right behind them, as we were going past on the outside lane, so I reckon they deserved it.
I regularly see text book middle lane driving on the M8 heading through Glasgow, the Scots really don’t understand motorway driving. Some of them have stepped it up a level to outside lane hogging! Impressive stuff.
Not at all, it is the 'most' which implies the uniformity. The 'about' implies that it is uniform around the 10% mark.
The implication here is your error, not mine.
why all the flashing and so on?
To alert other drivers to your presence, as per the highway code.
Thank you for your testimoney mr realman! you may step down
Never seen it myself. Then again I can't remember the last time I saw a motorway cop pull anyone over for anything.
Unless they invent a middle-lane-moron-cam I doubt it will ever improve.
I regularly see text book middle lane driving on the M8 heading through Glasgow, the Scots really don’t understand motorway driving. Some of them have stepped it up a level to outside lane hogging! Impressive stuff.
Yeah the M8 is shocking. Its not helped by the crazy layout though, with exits on the outside lane in two places
Cougar - Member
Not at all, it is the 'most' which implies the uniformity. The 'about' implies that it is uniform around the 10% mark.
The implication here is your error, not mine.
Not mine, that of the English language.
Not mine, that of the English language.
What do other readers think?
I regularly see text book middle lane driving on the M8 heading through Glasgow, the Scots really don’t understand motorway driving. Some of them have stepped it up a level to outside lane hogging! Impressive stuff.
To be fair, three-lane motorways aren't quite as common in Scotland. And as richmtb points out, outside lane "hogging" on some parts of the M8 may just be someone trying to get to their ****ed up exit lane.
The other thing with the M8 is that the speed limit varies quite a bit near Glasgow, so you get folk tailgating and obliviously speeding past in the 50, only to pass them five minutes later in the 70 bits.
Cougar - Member
[i]Not mine, that of the English language.[/i]What do other readers think?
you don't need other readers, just take a look at a dictionary.
You say that most speedos underread (overread) by 10%. That means that they are all the same in that respect, homogenous, consistent in that respect from one example to the other, alike. UNIFORM
No I didn't.
I said that most speedos (over)read by ABOUT 10%.
"Most," implying "many but not all" which from feedback here would appear to bear out anecdotally as "everyone's apart from yours," and "about" meaning "around, give or take, with some variation," ie not uniform.
If you're going to quote me, don't do it conveniently dropping the one word that makes the difference between who's correct, it's deceitful.
I use the term uniformity in relation to your use of the the word 'most' not that of 'about'. This is why I am happy to edit to say
You say that most speedos underread (overread) by [i][b]about[/b] [/i]10%. That means that they are all the same in that respect, homogenous, consistent in that respect from one example to the other, alike. UNIFORM
Charlie: you really are taking pedantry to new depths... 🙄
You say that [b]most [/b]speedos underread (overread) by about 10%. That means that they are [b]all [/b]the same in that respect, homogenous, consistent in that respect from one example to the other, alike. UNIFORM
(Emphasis mine.) Not only is he pedantic, he's not very good at it.
Anyway, I no longer care. You're right, well done, have a biscuit. Can we talk about something less tedious? What about that Jedward, eh?
The original statement is correct. Most speedos display a speed that is approximately 10% greater than the true speed, in other words 10% +/- several %. Or to put it another way ~10%. That's what about means in this context - it is an adverb to describe a that a quantity has been stated in an approximate manner, i.e. with a degree of imprecision.
A minority of speedos (i.e. those that do not fall within the 'most speedos' group) still display a speed that is greater than the true speed but they fall closer to a being a much smaller % out or a much greater % out (say 0-4% and 16%+ out). A tiny proportion of speedos display a speed lower than the true speed when travelling at normal cruising speeds, which is illegal.
To put it another way, all speedos bar those which are illegal overstate the true speed by approximately 10%. The use of the word ALL does not nullify the use of the word APPROXIMATELY.
P.S. Do pedantic posters that insist on staying on the same course of argument sit really far forward hunched over their keyboard, nose almost touching the screen?
All explained here,
[url= http://www.howmotorwayswork.co.uk/middle_lane.htm ]How motorways work[/url]
these threads always have legs 🙂
who was it on here that does laps of middlelaners??
genuis, next time it quiet and I'm on my tod I'm going to try it.
overtake, pull in and slow to let them past and then overtake again....repeat until bored. may even try it backwards if its really quiet
Not me being pedantic, Cougar is fixating on my use of the word uniform, forcing me to justify my use of it. Which i am still happy with, the second sentence being subordinate to the first, means that the word [b]all [/b] applies to the [b]most [/b]in the original sentence. It is they which are UNIFORM. I'm happy to stop there and seeing as you are too then we shall just let the original statement stand.
My speedos are all made of lycra...
No, no Mat. Your [i]uniform[/i] is made of Lycra, apparently.
No lycra here - apart from a bit on my gloves and ahem the tri shorts I just bought.... 😳
If we got rid of the inside lane, and called the first lane the 'driving' lane, and then the middle lane the 'overtaking' lane and the third lane the 'speeding' lane would that help?
I drove most of the M1 up and then down on Saturday, and I'd forgotten how bad it could be - and yes the 55mph crowd do exist...
If we got rid of the inside lane, and called the first lane the 'driving' lane, and then the middle lane the 'overtaking' lane and the third lane the 'speeding' lane would that help?
That's nearly what it is, in truth. A lane for driving in, and then another 2 for overtaking.
Chuff me, I go home early and look what happens? Now to spend the next hour reading the posts...
Inside lane - lorry lane
Middle lane - car lane
Outside lane - premium executive lane
Post of the day...
P.S. Do pedantic posters that insist on staying on the same course of argument sit really far forward hunched over their keyboard, nose almost touching the screen?
🙂
Maybe that should be the much talked about road pricing model? Charge by the lane.
Charlie, just wondering where you live
I'd put my money on "under a bridge".
No, I've never seen someone sit in the middle lane when there are no other cars around.
Sadly, despite the fact I rarely use motorways, as I don't normally do very long journeys, virtually every time I do I see some muppet sitting at around 55-60 regardless of what traffic is around them. On the M4 last week going to and from Oxford I saw drivers sitting there with a completely empty inside lane. It's really common. On the M4, anyway.
Regarding the ~10% speedo thing, my old Puma had a little diagnostic feature on the Odo, where you held the zero button in on startup you got a series of screens that included an accurate electronic tacho and speedo. Using that showed the analogue speedo was exactly 10% fast, 80mph being actually 72. I've used GPS on my phone to check my Octy's speedo, and it's around 10%, but that was a 3G iPhone, the 4G is more accurate but I haven't done a check with that yet.
I principally undertake middle-lane drivers whenever possible. I consider it an educational measure.
ditto. and overtake then cut them up. Pretty dumb but they are so annoying. And when I finally get level with them I hoot lorries that have sat there overtaking their mate by a margin of half a mile an hour.
I must be turning into a grump old man.
"Post of the day..."
+1
What's worse than a middle lane driver? A middle lane driver who's not noticed there isn't a 3rd lane, and insists in driving in the right lane of 2 on a 2 lane motorway. Got one of these recently with nothing in sight in front, who eventually moved left when I'd sat behind flashing for ~30s, and as soon as I was past (and in the left lane) moved back to the right!