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I know little about motorbikes, other than they are unpleasantly and unnecessarily noisy. I find cars too noisy too. I’m not sure there would be any need to give electric cars fake engine noise, if people drove with regard for more vulnerable road users like pedestrians.
The fake noise thing is to stop kids walking out into the road.
Wouldn’t it be preferable to pay attention to what you are doing, anticipate kids and other such risks? My bicycle is close to silent and I’ve never come close to an errant ‘kid’. As a child we used to play in the streets, now we drive/ride around as noisily as we can, to keep children in their place.
It’s not about the driver it is about the pedestrian - for most people hearing is an important part of how they sense the world around them. I have never thought of myself as not paying attention but there have been one or two occasions recently when I have nearly stepped out in front of electric cars - I always stopped because I did a final check before moving but I can see how it would happen quite easily...
I'm guessing you've never ridden/driven in London? Hoardes of people (not just kids) head buried in their phones paying zero attention to the road, crossing where they like, playing chicken with the cars/busses/bikes, ignoring pedestrian crossings.
As a child we didn't have smartphones, and we had the green cross code man. Silent anything on the road is never a good idea.
Better get used to it as the world fills with (nearly) silent cars and motorbikes...
Rachel (who personally can’t wait - as soon as there is a decent electric bike, I’ll be swapping over)
I’m guessing you’ve never ridden/driven in London? Hoardes of people (not just kids) head buried in their phones paying zero attention to the road, crossing where they like, playing chicken with the cars/busses/bikes, ignoring pedestrian crossings.
As a child we didn’t have smartphones, and we had the green cross code man. Silent anything on the road is never a good idea.
Me? For 6 years, late 80’s early 90’s. Silent bicycle. You just need to take care. Whilst a noisy vehicle may bring your presence to the attention of some who are not paying attention, what happens when you cross paths with a deaf person on their phone? A constantly excessively loud vehicle seems to be a very high price to pay so that you can drive/ride at a speed incompatible with the conditions.
I have ridden in London many tines. I used to live there. Exhaust note is not a huge factor in whether you have a collision.
Rachel
As a child we didn’t have smartphones, and we had the green cross code man. Silent anything on the road is never a good idea.
And that officer is why I bounced the small child down the street, you know those angry birds and that instagram meant I didn't need to be aware of what was going on.
Like a group of 10 club cyclists holding up traffic ?
Bicycles are traffic though, they are unlikely to be speeding either, also they have an inalienable right to be on the queens highway, you as a motorcyclist are merely licensed and that permission can be revoked by the state at any time.
so that you can drive/ride at a speed incompatible with the conditions.
Who said anything about speed? We're talking about whether electric vehicles which are silent can cause more pedestrians to be hit by cars. Speed isn't what we're talking about.
And that officer is why I bounced the small child down the street, you know those angry birds and that instagram meant I didn’t need to be aware of what was going on.
So pedestrians should be allowed to wander about on roads without a care in the world because it's the car driver who wasn't paying attention fault when they walked out from behind a stopped bus, with no warning or possibility for the driver to stop? No. You walk out into traffic too busy playing angry birds to look before crossing and I'm sorry but it's not the driver that's at fault. Of course drivers have to pay attention, where did I ever say they didn't??? However, as a pedestrian, you use 2 or your 3 main senses when crossing the road. Sight and sound. Take away one of those senses and it doesn't take much to realise what will happen, especially when people are used to vehicles making at least a little bit of noise. There's only so much you can anticipate unless you fancy driving everwhere at 2mph...
Take unprotcted train crossings. Trains make little noise at the moment but they at least make some noise. Imagine a completely silent train and trying to cross over the line with one coming. Sod that.
I feel there are some trolls in this thread...
I feel there are some trolls in this thread…
Was that around when somebody said loud exhausts were needed to keep people safe?
Looks like not everybody agrees that silent vehicles are just as safe as those that make some noise.
NOT advocating for noisy exhausts on motorbikes by the way...!!!
so that you can drive/ride at a speed incompatible with the conditions.
Who said anything about speed? We’re talking about whether electric vehicles which are silent can cause more pedestrians to be hit by cars. Speed isn’t what we’re talking about.
Nobody mentioned speed, but I’m not sure it needed saying. If people stuck to the 20 mph speed limit, in the areas you’re likely to find pedestrians, your vehicle can be as quiet as you like - you’ll see what is going on around you in good time.
So pedestrians should be allowed to wander about on roads without a care in the world because it’s the car driver who wasn’t paying attention fault when they walked out from behind a stopped bus, with no warning or possibility for the driver to stop? No. You walk out into traffic too busy playing angry birds to look before crossing and I’m sorry but it’s not the driver that’s at fault.
This is is no doubt a common attitude, but I feel it is somewhat old fashioned. The times they are a changing.
I think there are some jurisdictions where it is always assumed to be the car driver that’s at fault in the first instance and maybe that’s not a bad thing.
No. You walk out into traffic too busy playing angry birds to look before crossing and I’m sorry but it’s not the driver that’s at fault.
Your Honour
OK, I agree that in some cases the blame in a car/pedestrian coming together can be shared. That doesn't change my opinion that silent vehicles pose more of a danger to pedestrians than vehicles that make noise, especially with all the distractions that are around now. And yes, if you drive a silent vehicle you have to take extra care when in areas with lots of pedestrians, because of this.
However - in my experience driving/riding something that makes a decent amount of noise gives you more presence to all road users and pedestrians, they simply notice you more and are more aware of you. You'll never change my opinion that loud pipes DO save lives.
But some pipes are too loud.
I think there are some jurisdictions where it is always assumed to be the car driver that’s at fault in the first instance and maybe that’s not a bad thing
Holland is like this. It’s probably no coincidence that it feels like a much safer place to be a pedestrian or cyclist.
That doesn’t change my opinion
Got some facts to back that up? Otherwise it's just opinion and everyone has one of those
Nobody is saying illegal exhausts are good, they’re not, but the exhausts that you think are illegal with your built in dB meters probably aren’t illegal.
Also, you never see a leopard stalking its prey with some tambourines strapped to its knees, because people don’t notice really quiet things creeping up on them.
Also, you never see a leopard stalking its prey with some tambourines strapped to its knees, because people don’t notice really quiet things creeping up on them.
Nobody is saying illegal exhausts are good, they’re not, but the exhausts that you think are illegal with your built in dB meters probably aren’t illegal.
How about we just crack down to a low limit? Or ban the sales of them unless we mark them in bright fluro pink?
Got some facts to back that up? Otherwise it’s just opinion and everyone has one of those
45 thousand miles on a motorbike. Also...
in my experience
How about we just crack down to a low limit? Or ban the sales of them unless we mark them in bright fluro pink?
There's already a system in place for legal exhausts. Yes, some are illegal but 95% of loud 'illegal cans aren't actually illegal.
This is a completely stock bike, as it came from the showroom.
Too loud for you? Sorry, but that's not what the government/manufacturer thinks...
45 thousand miles on a motorbike. Also…
What was the miles ridden in each dB range? What were the conditions? Where were the controls?
What was the miles ridden in each dB range? What were the conditions? Where were the controls?
Give over, we get it - you don't like motorbikes. That's your opinion, and you're welcome to it. You don't like loud obnoxious exhausts. Neither do I. Can you categorically say that a loud exhaust has never, in the history of motorbikes, saved a life? Or never even prevented a single accident? No? If only one accident has ever been avoided by a loud exhaust then that's good enough for me, as all it takes is one accident to change someone's life forever.
I don't need to justify my safety to you. I'm sorry if my slightly louder than stock bike annoys you when riding around the Rye, Romney area, but those roads are just awesome 🙂
45 thousand miles on a motorbike.
Some of the arguments on this thread are weaker than ever
Some of the arguments on this thread are poorer than ever
Because years of experience doing something is worthless. Obviously.
Best apply for that F1 drivers job then as I'm now equally as qualified as Lewis Hamilton. Woohoo!!!
Best apply for that F1 drivers job then as I’m now equally as qualified as Lewis Hamilton. Woo!!!
So Mansell as a traffic cop? (not on the IoM)
I think the original thread was about ****ers riding stupid motorbikes too fast like dicks, have they stopped?
I did live hearing about the MCN problems, (this ain't anti Semitic but more persecuted than the jews was their proffered angle)
MikeWSmith
What have I told you about going through my wardrobe?
Sorry Mike, you've completely lost me? Persecution? The Jews? **** me this thread has gone somewhere I never thought it would!!
Yes, the original post was about middle aged men on powerful, loud motorbikes who can't ride and end up crashing due to their own poor skills. All of which I agreed is a problem, so much so that I avoid riding at the time of year when they show up in their masses. Loud exhausts will always be a hotly divided opinion between bikers and non bikers.
Sorry Mike, you’ve completely lost me? Persecution? The Jews? **** me this thread has gone somewhere I never thought it would!!
LOL MCN reads as if motorbike riders were the most persecuted people in the word, whee the nasty secret police want to catch them for you know breaking the law
Because years of experience doing something is worthless. Obviously
Perhaps not worthless, but you were asked for facts. Why would Lewis Hamilton know anything about the affects of vehicle noise, on driver and pedestrian safety? It would be like asking Geraint Thomas’ opinion on cycle helmets ; )
LOL MCN reads as if motorbike riders were the most persecuted people in the word, whee the nasty secret police want to catch them for you know breaking the law
Does it? All I see is news articles on new bikes, councils trying beat bike thefts, some racing new, some kit reviews...
I find it interesting that you seem to despise motorbikes and bikers, yet regularly read one of the UK's most popular biking newspapers.
Perhaps not worthless, but you were asked for facts. Why would Lewis Hamilton know anything about the affects of vehicle noise, on driver and pedestrian safety? It would be like asking Geraint Thomas’ opinion on cycle helmets ; )
Lol 🙂 Facts are hard to come by on this matter, as it's almost impossible to measure how much safer it makes you. However, based on my experience I feel that having a louder bike makes my life on a motorbike that little bit safer than not having a loud exhaust. There's always 2 sides to every story, but not everyone can relate to how the other side sees things. 🙂
I don’t need to justify my safety to you. I’m sorry if my slightly louder than stock bike annoys you when riding around the Rye, Romney area, but those roads are just awesome
thats not what the copper friend of my folks thought, he lived at Hamstreet far too many call outs to the military road, Brenzett and Reading street on a weekend, always sports bikes and speed and usually a death.
thats not what the copper friend of my folks though, he lived at Hamstreet far too many call outs to the military road, Brenzett and Reading street on a weekend, always sports bikes and speed and usually a death.
Are you too blinkered by your hatred of motorbikes to see that I'm agreeing with you!!!!?
I'll put it simple terms. Weekends. Sportbikes. Speed. Crap riders who think they're good. Death. BAD.
Making my life on a motorbike safer. Not riding in areas/times when the above idiots are riding. Keeping me alive. GOOD.
Kapeesh?
Are you too blinkered by your hatred of motorbikes to see that I’m agreeing with you!!!!?
Technically I’m agreeing with you. 🙂
Goddammit, too many mrsmith's or mikesmiths 🙂
I have heard of those roads, and yeah they are a magnet to bikers in the summer months. A few idiots will ruin it for the rest of us, then the road gets turned into a solid 50 limit with double white lines along the who length, and then the idiot bikers take even more risks to get past traffic doing the speed limit... I prefer my own little roads to enjoy that aren't the main biker routes, and ones that can be ridden within the speed limit Straight line speed has very little appeal to me, the fastest I've ever been was 115mph, on my 400c bike on the German autobahn, top speed run on the little thing 🙂
If only one accident has ever been avoided by a loud exhaust then that’s good enough for me, as all it takes is one accident to change someone’s life forever.
There would be a lot less accidents and death if people on motorbikes stopped riding like dangerous ****ers. Which is the point here isn't it...
Cant bothered to read all this but even though my bike is pretty quiet I can see the reasoning behind a loud pipe. I have often tootled up behind a car in a queue straggling the centre line. A quick dip of the clutch and a rev, often wakes them up and they pull in. I think people prefer this to being beeped at. I guess a loud pipe just does this all the time.
If only one accident has ever been avoided by a loud exhaust then that’s good enough for me, as all it takes is one accident to change someone’s life forever.
What about (ery) if one accident had been caused by a loud exhaust. Would that be a good enough reason for you for a complete ban?
I will nail my colours to the mast here, i love bikes, I’ve had several, big and small, and i like to hear a nice throaty exhaust.
But, (it’s a big but, i admit) I don’t believe they do much to make bikers more noticeable.
i drive a coach fo a living, and i regularly cross the Queensferry Crossing (The new version of the Forth Road Bridge) at peak times. I always have my window open, because hearing things is an important element in knowing what’s happening around me, and even though i am actively looking for filtering bikers, the thing that alerts me first is headlights.
the exhaust, legal or otherwise, can’t really be heard until bikes are almost past me, rendering them pointless from a safety standpoint.
DRL, or perhaps full beam headlights, are more effective IMO.
#anecdotal
Noise from the exhaust mostly goes backwards. Which isn't much help really.
Safe driving saves lives. Loud pipes piss people off, as you can gather from this thread.
the exhaust, legal or otherwise, can’t really be heard until bikes are almost past me, rendering them pointless from a safety standpoint.
+1
I've ridden bikes and never felt the need for a louder exhaust, but I have upgraded headlights to get a brighter day running light.
Loud exhaust are just another example of selfish behaviour falsely justified on spurious grounds to make the offenders feel better about their poor behaviour.
^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^
I'm a middle aged bloke who rides motorbikes.
From my observations riding bikes since my teens,the one's who run loud pipes tend to be the noisy types who like the sound of there own voice & don't consider the rest of the population...
They get the bike MOT'd with a quiet silencer then swap to the loud pipe when they get home.
I don't get the small number plate thing either.Why fit an illegal plate & then complain about getting pulled over by the Police?
Agreed . Safe riding has to be way more effective than fitting a louder exhaust. I would imagine the vast majority of car drivers have the radio on fairly loud to make any external noise almost unhearable ( see the panic an ambo causes as they 'appear from no-where' despite the fact the two tones have been wailing for the last 10 minutes )
Could it be that by fitting a louder exhaust there is a misconception that cars will hear you coming , so when you overtake that car that is turning right , without indicating , taking the crown of the road, or doing a mirror check inside you head there is a voice that is saying , 'Its OK surely he will hear me coming , I have a loud exhaust' and you continue with the overtake . till you get taken out .
I always look motorcylists in the eye /sunglassses / visor at junctions when they have priority and I am emerging , as a roady I know the little bit of doubt that creeps into your mind as you approach the stationary vehicle 'he has seen me , and is not about to pull out , right?'
The thing I don't get is the need for the behemoth bikes and huge horsepower in the UK. I reckon almost all those riders are seriously overbiked.
Fair enough in Germany where you can strap them out.
Up here in the Highlands I reckon a handy lad on a GS500 would give them a run for their money.
I reckon almost all those riders are seriously overbiked.
I thought the same the last time I went to a trail centre
I don’t get the small number plate thing either.Why fit an illegal plate & then complain about getting pulled over by the Police?
Some people are just born victims
rachel
Just ridden down to Frankfurt today. Mostly away from the autobahn.
Somwewhat amazed at the number of bikes out and the number of groups I kept catching up with. I know I have a reasonable amount of power on-hand but genuinely shocked at how many groups of “sportsbike” riders I was having to wait for - I have panniers full of camping gear on board!
i do wonder if there are a lot of people who actually ride very little. Like only a few thousand miles a year. What’s the point in spending a fortune on a bike for that? Just hire one.
Rachel
As with most bikers on this thread I am not one for stupid loud pipes on bikes. They annoy me let alone anyone else.
The comment I was objecting too was the only reason people fit them is because they are an idiot. People do fit them for a number of reasons one being to be heard. Its quite obvious that something louder is more likely to be heard than something quiet. There is quite a bit of science to back that up 🙂
Rachel, you are riding a sports bike on stilts though 🙂 18K service on mine this week and a bit more warranty work 🙁
LOL Once again we digress into where not only are all STWers better riders than everyone else, but they're superior humans/ethics etc too... This place does amuse me lots.
I have a standard can, but only because i'd wake my wife/boy up when i left for work if i changed the can.
As for the spirited riding, hmmmm i'm as guilty as the next person, but only up to 110mph as my little 690 won't like more than that.
Weeksy, I am a convert to the fun to be had on a small bike now. I changed from an RSV4 for trackdays to an 82BHP CBR650f ex European Junior Cup bike. Not had as much fun for years. Its a lot less low stress than a high value bike, a lot less terrifying and loads of fun 🙂
Nice one Bazzer, mate rode a stock 650F at Donny on a road bike trackday and loved it...
The littler bikes are a blast... I've ridden many bikes in the last 3 years on track, but only 1 session loaners from mates. In the last 3 years i've only owned a KTM 690 Duke (Although i'm on my 2nd now) and i absolutely LOVE it... it goes well enough in Inters, it's light, fun, just an awesome machine.
Big bikes, i just don't get them.... Although i don't get sportsbikes either at that. This weekend we were at Rockingham for the final fling there. I own and spanner this....
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[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/29612418867/ ]2018-09-08_02-07-24[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url] - [url= https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dariogf.flickr2BBcode_lite ]Flickr2BBcode LITE[/url]
But that's Mrs Weeksy riding it... I've only ridden it to the MOT station once... I have no desire to ride it again 😀
The crossover between motorbikes and cycling is quite amazing
Being overbiked, mid life crises, down sizing (like moving to a hardtail or a gravel bike)
The motorbike market moved ahead of the cycling market, from sportsbikes to adventure bikes and everyday
I don't get to ride much these days, I cycle to work and then weekends are family time. Fun weekends are usually MTB or outdoorsy filled... But the bike is holding it's value and I appreciate being able to use it when I can. It's therefore staying. Plus I love it, although I too will probably get something slower next time (although there's pretty much only one way to go)
Could not seem to embed the picture, this is at Anglesey, not a knee down pic but sums up why its fun 🙂
I've never got the big superbike on the road thing.The most fun,and ironically most crashes I had was on my 250LC.
I've had a FZ750 since 1991 & at the time it was classed as a sportsbike,but a modern Supersport 600 would leave it for dead.I used to ride a Ducati 916 but it only came into it's own around 80 mph,not very practical for riding country lanes..
I added a modern bike to the stable this year,675R Street Triple,it's fast enough for me & I like the size of it.
The other week I managed to get the camping gear on it & had some fun over at the Isle of Man for the Classic TT.
I did a few laps of the 'course' whilst I was there,inevitably,it was shut a couple of times,& the 675 was fast enough for me going over the mountain.
Maybe it's something to do with UK biking culture where people think you have to have a big sportsbike to fit in with thecool kids?
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My 675R in the Isle of Man a couple of weeks ago,note standard (quiet) exhaust!
I’ve got an old 748 for track use, it’s probably only around 100hp but the handling is fantastic.
These days with bad shoulders I’m fancying something like a Hypermotard SP.
I have done a 3500mile Tour on a Street Triple before, I still think its one of the best bikes ever made.
Bigger bikes on the road work if you are doing lots of miles as they are a bit less frantic, but once you get to the mountains the little bike wins hands down 🙂
Ironically for me its big bike on road little one on track.
I will say though I love sportsbikes, I think they look amazing and they are generally the pinnacle of what can be done. However they make little sense on modern roads.
Years ago though the the only bikes with decent suspension brakes etc were sports bikes, naked bikes were much more budget. Now you can get a naked with Ohlins and Brembos etc. That makes the sportsbike a lot less relevant.
PS is it possible to link pics from google images here, I tried and failed !!!
I have a standard can, but only because i’d wake my wife/boy up when i left for work if i changed the can.
Nice that you’re considerate towards your family. Shame you imply that everyone else you drive past is fair game for noise pollution.
Involver, do you ensure that everything you do does not impact on anyone else in any way? I doubt it.
748 is a stunning bike 👍 looks every bit as great as the day it was launched
Yes I do try to be considerate towards other people in general.
Im happy to share the world with motorcycles. Not fitting an illegal/unnecessarily noisy exhaust to a road bike is hardly a great hardship IMO.
748 is a stunning bike
looks every bit as great as the day it was launched
It is a fabulous looking bike that.