You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Now you’ve been riding a bit I would highly recommend joining the local Institute of Advanced Motorcyclist group and get some extra hints. Once you get passed the beards and BMW GS’s some real good practical tips can be had.
Can't recommend this enough. Riding with a mentor from my local IAM group completely changed my riding. My OH, who frequents rides pillion, has commented on how much smoother and quicker my riding is but that she feels totally safe.
I took my advanced test a couple of years ago and failed. Despite this, the examiner said I was an incredibly safe rider. I'll think about taking the test again sometime but given how my riding has improved I know I'm a better rider despite not having the appropriate piece of paper. Strange but true I'm now quicker on a 650 dual sport bike than I was on an 1100 sports tourer having done the IAM training.
god forbid, get post test training from the people you took your DAS with
That's exactly what I intend to do. £200 for a day with the guys around North Wales training
I'll have another road bike but I'm not interested in riding on the roads anymore - a 4 year commute into London on a sports bike ruins that concept. I'll get a 600 for trackdays as I can ride fast without the worry of getting nicked or hurting someone.
As to middle aged men and speeding, I think part of the issue now is that it's such a lot of effort to get your bike license that you've got to REALLY want to ride a motorbike to bother with it. Those that REALLY want to do it probably want to do it to go fast hence why a high proportion of motorcyclists ride like nobs. It's also expensive which means only those that can afford it need apply. I think if the test was easier (but limited to BHP) more people would ride bikes, the proportion of idiots would drop and car drivers would be more used to bikes being on the road. However as it stands, someone with a bit of cash can do their test and immediately go out and buy a 200bhp bike for £10k. that's never going to end well...
I think part of the issue now is that it’s such a lot of effort to get your bike license that you’ve got to REALLY want to ride a motorbike to bother with it. Those that REALLY want to do it probably want to do it to go fast hence why a high proportion of motorcyclists ride like nobs. It’s also expensive which means only those that can afford it need apply. I think if the test was easier (but limited to BHP) more people would ride bikes, the proportion of idiots would drop and car drivers would be more used to bikes being on the road. However as it stands, someone with a bit of cash can do their test and immediately go out and buy a 200bhp bike for £10k. that’s never going to end well…
genuine question from someone who is bike-curious at the moment - is it harder or easier than the car test? As we often have the view on STW that the car test is stupidly easy, right idiots pass it, and the only thing slowing them down is insurance cost for the younger people. As bikes are generally an 'addition' rather than instead of a car, even if commuting only, then you are pushing it to the middle aged category.
Yeah another “are bike tests that difficult” question.
I passed mine wayback when we had a world ragged by air cooled KH250 triples and RD400’s with expansion chambers fitted..
I think the tester told me to ride around the square outside of the test center and to stop when he held his A4 Pad out 🤣
I rode home on the KH250 I borrowed from my cousin. Then bought a Bultaco trials bike..
genuine question from someone who is bike-curious at the moment – is it harder or easier than the car test?
Probably about the same for a modern test if you're starting from scratch.
Fairly straightforward if you can cycle and already have your car licence.
It’s also expensive which means only those that can afford it need apply. I think if the test was easier (but limited to BHP) more people would ride bikes
Anyone can go a CBT for ~£150 and get on the road with a 125. Hardly expensive and adequate for 80% of general miles that most people do.
If you factor in all of the training required, its no more expensive than gaining your car licence.
It took me 6 x lessons on top of the CBT, It's not too bad. The guys who I had for lessons (direct entry) thought the examiners for bikes are less stringent than the ones doing car tests. One reason they gave for this was that they know most people are taking the bike test so they can enjoy motorcycling i.e. fun, rather than necessity.
This was definitely the case with me for both the Mod 1 and mod 2. I could not have asked for a more decent examiner.
The big thing the examiners are after for bikes is that you are safe on the road, that is the top priority.
As a bit of background, I had bikes 35 years ago and since then have regretted not taking my test then. However having had to take the CBT, MOD1 and MOD 2, plus the lessons I'm glad i didn't take it then, as I'm sure I would have struggled jumping on a biggish bike without that foundation I had as part of taking my test, the £1000 it cost is the only thing that's stings. 🙁
My view is that is easier than the car test, but only if you have been driving for a while.
I also decided not to take those 3-4 days quick entry DAS as I think taking time between lessons to let what I had been taught sink in helped a lot.
just my 2penneth worth
I’ve ridden bikes for 20 years or more now. I’ve had big ones (fnarr) and small ones, most stuff apart from an actual silly fast superbike. They hold no interest for me as I generally use mine as transport. Currently riding a CRF1000L Africa Twin
Couple of observations
I used to live in Hampshire and commute into west London every day. Darn Sarf bikers tend to be high milage commuters, ride in all weathers and very sensible. I very rarely had or saw any issues at all. Now living in Sheffield it seems most bikes are used as toys and there’s a far higher percentage of dicks. Driving into Matlock Bath one day we saw some of the most appalling riding imaginable. Funny thing was I reckon I could have handed most of them their asses on a plate with my low powered commuter bike. I shudder to think about it. I don’t want to be associated with people like that. I don’t ride with any groups mostly for that reason. I don’t want to be tarred with that brush thanks
Exhausts - I have a road legal Akropovic can on my bike. It’s got a bassy burble but it’s not excessive. It came with the bike. No way I’d pay £700 RRP for it! It’s nice though. I’ll keep it. But the other week we were up on Mam Tor and the valley below was filled with the sound of sports bikes with illegal cans. It wasn’t nice. IMO it’s a blight that needs removing. I’d refit my standard can if I thought it made a din like that.
Like I said I’ve been riding for many years continuously in all weathers year round. I’m in it for the long run. Self preservation is the name of the game. But sure I’ll use the throttle if I feel like it. It really is ridiculously easy to get to 100 and back as already mentioned. Overtaking is over in a couple of seconds too, and it feels easy and relaxed when done right. I once took our Ducati ST3s to Reading and back and I remember shaking my head in disbelief at the ease and pace I’d got there. With experience and restrained use of the power A to B speed has to be experienced to be believed. Queues of cars and heavy traffic just don’t exist and I find I arrive more relaxed than I would in a car because I’m not trapped in a box and raging at the traffic.
Move just ridden to Birmingham to pick up a package. I didn’t need to do that. But I enjoyed the ride. It’s a nice sunny day, I think most cyclist could understand that at least, eh? 😀
genuine question from someone who is bike-curious at the moment – is it harder or easier than the car test? As we often have the view on STW that the car test is stupidly easy, right idiots pass it, and the only thing slowing them down is insurance cost for the younger people. As bikes are generally an ‘addition’ rather than instead of a car, even if commuting only, then you are pushing it to the middle aged category.
The bike test is a whole different beast to the car test and it's changed a lot in the last 10-15 years.
For a big bike test (unrestricted A licence) you must be over 24 or have done 2 years (i think) on an A2 licence (restricted to 45bhp ish), then you must pass the tests on a 600cc+ bike (roughly speaking, but a big bike nonetheless). However, you can't ride a big bike on the road on your own, you must be accompanied by an approved instructor and in radio contact. So, you have to pay for lessons and can't practice on your own. Cost for the Direct Access Scheme (basically from no experience to full licence is anywhere from £600 to £1500.
So that's the age and cost restrictions, that's before you've even got to the tests. Which are:
Mod1 - off road tarmac area, several slow speed riding tests, figure of 8, U turn, slalom etc plus a swerve test and emergency stop. Takes about 30 minutes, put a single foot down = Fail. Easy to pass, easy to fail. The harder of the 2 tests.
Mod2 - road riding, 35 minutes or so with the examiner on a bike (or car) following you. Similar to the car test but no parking etc, just a couple of stops to pull out from behind parked cars, and a hill start or 2.
It is quite possible to pass the lot in a week, I passed my CBT and rode a 125 for 5k miles commuting, filtering etc before doing the DAS over 3 days (2 half days training, Mod1 on the 3rd day at 9am, couple more hours training then mod2 at 12pm the same day. Passed both first time. That cost me £550 or so, inc test fees, CBT would have been another £100 on top. That was the cheapest (and best) school in my area, you can work out the hourly rate if you say it was about 5 hours per day training, the tests are about £100 all in, so £30 ph for the instructor & use of their bike.
Overall, it's not hard if you've got a few months of 125cc riding experience, but vs the car test there's more stuff preventing access (cost, age, time restrictions).
On the car test, you don’t have to remember to put your feet down when you stop...
Rachel
I don't know about that, feet down on brake and clutch is usually a good idea!
Having never ridden before I did my DAS last year, found MOD 1 hard (failed U-turn) and MOD 2 OK. Depends on your experience I guess. I found bike control and handling more difficult as I'd never ridden before. The on the road stuff was fine having driven a lot for the last 20 odd years
I was the same as Sharkey, you have 4 tests to do, a lot can depend on how you do in tests as much as anything. Must admit to having butterflies myself. Very satisfying though and I would recommend the CBT to anyone even as a day out!
Risk. There is no risk in life any longer, middle age kicks in and people start wondering what the point of it all is. They want to feel 'alive' again and by alive they want to scare themselves and indulge in some taking some risks.
Motorcycling is one form of it, there are others; downhill MTB definitely contains a reasonable degree of risk.
Few people consider the impact on others lives with their actions, we live in a blinkered society. There's a guy at work at the moment who had to go through counselling after having a motorcyclist embed himself in the front of his car on his side of the road!
So i've got the latter, what age do you need to be for the former?
I did my IAM when I went from an SV650s to my Triumph Street Triple R, felt totally outclassed by the bike and not like I was able to use it. Really helped. Now have a Fireblade, which if I'm honest is too fast. It'll do an indiciated 100mph in 1st gear. Next bike will be naked and maybe retro. Do WAY more cycling than motorcycling these days, but I'd miss it if I had to stop
The other bonus is residuals on motorcycles are actually pretty good now
I have a 2004 R1 which actually seems to be going up in value - remarkable really - bikes have always had a bit of a tendency to turn into ‘classics’ more quickly than cars but it seems to be accelerating these days...
Love Bikes but, as PeterPoddy says:....
'sports bikes with illegal cans. It wasn’t nice. IMO it’s a blight that needs removing'
I have done 26 trackdays and about 6000 road miles this year so far, so its fair to say I love bikes.
I have 4 bikes ranging from 82bhp to 180bhp
It makes me laugh when people say how terrifying modern bikes are, they are way easier to ride than bikes of 15years ago. Tyre technology is frankly amazing and with modern electronics you pretty much just have to point them in the right direction.
Agree with people I am not into riding in big groups, I have a few friends I like riding with but generally don't like the faff of big groups.
The old "I would kill myself" phrase makes me laugh most peoples fear and self preservation stops that.
There are two type of people in this world those who ride bikes and those who would love to but are scared 🙂
I saw a really crap bit of cycling this morning, some guy pulled out in front of a van, all cyclist had bikes when they were 12 get middle aged and now they by a carbon Cervelo and its too fast for them 🙂
Edited to add, I agree Sports bikes are rubbish on the road if you have aging hips 🙂
I like you Bazzer.. not sexually, so don't get your hopes up 🙂
26?! Blimey. My first this year is this month!
As to middle aged men and speeding, I think part of the issue now is that it’s such a lot of effort to get your bike license that you’ve got to REALLY want to ride a motorbike to bother with it. Those that REALLY want to do it probably want to do it to go fast hence why a high proportion of motorcyclists ride like nobs. It’s also expensive which means only those that can afford it need apply. I think if the test was easier (but limited to BHP) more people would ride bikes, the proportion of idiots would drop and car drivers would be more used to bikes being on the road. However as it stands, someone with a bit of cash can do their test and immediately go out and buy a 200bhp bike for £10k. that’s never going to end well…
An interesting theory but I doubt much has changed - back in the early 80s I worked with a bunch of lads who were all bike mad. They'd go out to the Peaks or Llangollen or wherever and have rallies. They had GS550s and GS750s and a GT550 and one had a Bonneville and they were all pretty damn irresponsible when they got together. Just too much young male testosterone. I think they were pretty typical of many bikers back then, as now. There was also quite a lot of drinking and riding involved, which is one thing that has probably changed.
I saw a really crap bit of cycling this morning, some guy pulled out in front of a van, all cyclist had bikes when they were 12 get middle aged and now they by a carbon Cervelo and its too fast for them
comparing the outcome possibilities of something capable of 100mph+ heavyweight missile crash against that of a simple bicycle, is just daft
Agreed . Why the neccessity to speed everywhere . The 4 mile drag of a an A road where I live is 30mph all the way., yet there are always tubby blokes on bikes who insist on riding at 40 - 50 along it. Then , on my commute up the A3 the traffic is usually heavy but almost always doing 60+, but you still get bikes weaving around cars.
Then you hear the outcry of ' car drivers never see bikes ' , perhaps that is because you have put yorself in a blind spot .
and whats with all the revving at traffic lights and junctions? Are motorbikes still as crap as they were in 1927 and wont idle? maybe modern electronics have passed them by . Does the throttle position to wrist action change on a minute by minute basis ?
I always let my car warm up before revving the nuts of it , motorbikes are happier with cold engines and gearboxes apparently .
<div class="bbp-reply-author">benp1
<div class="bbp-author-role">
<div class="">Subscriber</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="bbp-reply-content">
I did my IAM when I went from an SV650s to my Triumph Street Triple R, felt totally outclassed by the bike and not like I was able to use it. Really helped. Now have a Fireblade, which if I’m honest is too fast. It’ll do an indiciated 100mph in 1st gear. Next bike will be naked and maybe retro.
Sounds like you need an SV650 🙂
</div>
I saw a really crap bit of cycling this morning, some guy pulled out in front of a van, all cyclist had bikes when they were 12 get middle aged and now they by a carbon Cervelo and its too fast for them
comparing the outcome possibilities of something capable of 100mph+ heavyweight missile crash against that of a simple bicycle, is just daft
Hence the smiley at the end.
Its funny though as cyclists we probably have a lot in common when it comes to being venerable road users. Yet because its something people are not involved in they feel the need to criticise. Perhaps some of the people riding motorbikes are actually skilled understand the risks and manage them and some are not skilled and don't manage them. Sounds a lot like the people I see riding pushbikes to me. Like cyclists rarely does anyone involved in an accident come of worse than the biker or the cyclist. However no on here is suggesting that people should stop donning lycra and holding up cars every Sunday when out on their club ride.
You lot sound like the people talking about cyclists on other websites, should be ashamed of yourselves.
maybe modern electronics have passed them by
Nope, people just like hearing their engine/exhaust noise mostly. My KTM has ABS, traction control, multi power modes, Fly By Wire throttle, etc.
Many have Cornering ABS, Hill start facility, Cruise control,
The most important one though, lap timer. .so you can know how quickly you make it to work 🙂
Perhaps some of the people riding motorbikes are actually skilled understand the risks and manage them and some are not skilled and don’t manage them.
You mean manage them outside of the traffic laws?
You lot sound like the people talking about cyclists on other websites, should be ashamed of yourselves.
OK then.... Or maybe we can challenge things.
Perhaps some of the people riding motorbikes are actually skilled understand the risks and manage them and some are not skilled and don’t manage them.
You mean manage them outside of the traffic laws?
You lot sound like the people talking about cyclists on other websites, should be ashamed of yourselves.
OK then…. Or maybe we can challenge things.
You are reading what you want to read, rather than what is written. I was implying there were good riders and bad riders. Do you ride a motorcycle ? if not maybe you don't understand whats safe and whats not? Or maybe even what is legal and what is not.
Other than that I am not really sure what your point is caller.
My point was cycling and riding a motorcycle is generally more dangerous than driving a car. Also both rarely end up with anyone but the riders being injured. Its very rare the the "100mph+ missile" actually hurts anyone else, just like its rare a badly ridden Cervelo hurts anyone else other than the lycra clad pilot.
On your last point it sounded more like judging and whining than challenging to be honest.
You lot sound like the people talking about cyclists on other websites, should be ashamed of yourselves.
singletrackmind/mikewsmith, that’s exactly how you sound and it’s not nice.
Do you ride a motorcycle ? if not maybe you don’t understand whats safe and whats not? Or maybe even what is legal and what is not.
Crossing solid white lines?
Speeding?
Non legal parts?
I'm sure there are a lot of responsible riders out there. We also have a lot of riders who can out spend their skills and experience, and they do. They also act in a fairly antisocial way
I actually agree with you Mike that there are riders who behave in an irresponsible way, but to say its a lot of them is a little unfair.
Its a bit like me saying there are lots of riders in London on fixies with no front brake.
If someones ambition out ways their talent, they are the one who pays the price not you.
And yeah loud exhausts(which I assume is what you mean by illegal parts), I just got back from 4 days at Portimao racetrack where its perfectly legal to run a very load exhaust. I find it bloody annoying and think no need 🙂
I had quite a loud exhaust on my bike (was being used on track) and recently I changed it as it annoyed me let alone others. However one of the reasons people do it is to be noticed by car drivers. Not because all car drivers are idiots but because humans make mistakes and trying making it harder for them to make mistakes makes sense.
Just remember walkers hate you, they think you are irresponsible and ride dangerously, regardless if you do or not. You can slow down to pass them etc, they will still hate you. You just sound like that about motorbikes, try and understand rather than judge for a bit.
Oh and when you break your hip sending that huge drop, I am happy that the NHS I pay for sorts you out. I would rather you lived your life and did something then worry about removing every bit of risk from your life.
Most if not all of the guys I ride with motorbikes, mountain bikes and road bikes are all pretty courteous to others. So yes I do take offence when people imply we are all a bunch of ignorant rude idiots.
One of the best bits of advice I got on riding a motorbike fast was to go as fast as possible and then haul the brakes on in an emergency stop.
When I said I wouldn't want to ram the brakes on at that speed, I was asked what speed I thought was safe to put the brakes full on.
The reply, "OK, that's the fastest you should ride your bike".
After that I practised emergency stops from high speeds. If you want to find out about your bike's handling deficiencies, that's one way to do it.
If you haven't tried it, maybe you should. It's good to know the limits of your competency and the bike's capabilities, and wise not to exceed them.
So yes I do take offence when people imply we are all a bunch of ignorant rude idiots.
Nobody said that, it’s just that a high proportion are idiots
You can defend motorbikes all you like but the fact remains a large proportion of them treat the queens highway as a playground.
i live near a straight main road in london that is far enough away to be out of earshot and screened by trees, but it’s a constant revving screamfest of bikes with illegal cans accelerating to warp speed then stopping again as there are 3 sets of lights. It’s a 30 limit (hopefully soon to be 20) yet I often see bikes doing 60.
I also lived near a weekend bikers playground in Kent and they were always killing themselves, lots of ditches on the Romney marsh meant they often didn’t find them for weeks.
they were always killing themselves
It's daft statements like this that irritate bikers.
Nobody said that, it’s just that a high proportion are idiots
Provide some evidence for that and I won't tar you with the same moaning brush. That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
I saw a mountain biker ride past a horse rider at full pelt the other day, totally irresponsible and antisocial. Was he and idiot yes are all mountain bikers idiots of course not.
You are all just jealous because your too scared to come and join us 😀
I am aware of the irony of me making a comments about a whole group of people but, people in the UK are really negative about people having fun doing stuff that they are not involved in. You really don't get that sort of mentality as much in main land Europe.
It’s daft statements like this that irritate bikers.
Odd that it it doesn’t seem to stop them doing it though.
I guess liking the sound of your own exhaust pipe is abit like smelling your own farts. You think they are a wonderous acheivement , everyone else has a completely opposite opinion.
Miniture number plates , mounted at an acute angle, black visors , ' race only' cans seem to be the norm on the A272 race track.
I like driving fast , had a Saab 9000 2.3T that was a great car for fast road driving , but I didnt do double the speed limit in it .
Its the chains of 4-6 bikes that are daft. I guess you agree to ride to XYZ cafe for a coffee bike 1 overtakes a lorry , bike 2 overtakes the lorry , bike 3 follows but relies on 'the force' to guess there is not an oncoming car and squeezes through . Then its a 3 figure catch up by the others. So what if you arrive at the cafe 3 minutes behind ?
I will accept this is the minority , like roadies who RLJ , drivers dont get into a frantic hand wringing arguement with themselves over the previous 9 cyclists who stop at red lights, but use the 1 who does as a base for reason to hate all cyclists .
Problem is some places (like the A272) attract A LOT of bikers. It only needs a tiny percentage of those behaving badly to make it look like everyone is an idiot.
Most bikers I know are very respectful of 30 and 40 limits and yeah a fair proportion use their discretion in national speed limit areas. Most don't however do twice the speed limit (often)
Small plates again some will have slightly smaller plates and a tail tidy, not to evade speed cameras but just because they want there pride and joy to look good. Very few people run stupid small plates now as you just get nicked and its not worth it.
Black visors, making them illegal is the most stupid law I can think of at the moment. I wear one and will face the judge rather than be blinded by low sun and crash. I can wear a pair of sunglasses that I can't lift up or a visor I can. total madness. Carry a clear one with you and you will have to meet a tosser of a copper to nick you.
Race cans, again its the minority with daft load cans that people remember. I removed an Austin racing can from my Aprlia because it was just too loud. Super light and looked really nice. However it was just way too loud annoyed me so bound to annoy others. The Arrow on there now is not legal without the baffle in however an old legal can with the packing blown out will be louder than it. So yeah stupid loud cans are a nightmare and they ruin it for the rest of us.
I have experienced the person who will always follows you on an overtake again I find that annoying. To the point if it was safe for me and I knew it would be marginal for him I would not overtake. He was the only one of my mates that would do it though.
You haters should try it, as someone else mentioned its the closest thing to flying without flying 🙂
I’ll deflect done anticipated responses by saying that I’m dismayed by how many people on bicycles act. People in cars often judge all people on bikes as a result.
but about some people on motorbikes, and some comments above...
If someones ambition out ways their talent, they are the one who pays the price not you.
Usually it’s them, often it’s not only them. Others get affected & often traumatised, even if not injured. And crashes caused by excessive speed - you can’t deny that’s often the case - cost society huge amounts of money & resources because some idiot wanted to go fast and look heroic.
Having been first to the scene & work hard with emergency services to deal with the outcome wasn't something I enjoyed.
Hi Sockpuppet
Actually the stats don't agree with you, the biggest cause is cars not seeing them and not giving them their right of way, hence the loud exhaust so they might hear you. Second biggest is being taken out by the car you are overtaking, normally them turning right without looking.
Right of way violation accidents (38% of cases)
Loss of control at bends at speed (11% of cases)
Overtaking/filtering accidents (15% of cases)
So in some of those cases where bikes go off the road on there own yeah inappropriate speed will be a factor. In that 11% there will also be diesel spills, medical episodes and the odd badger jumping out. But hey lets not get the facts get in the way of everyone's perceived idea of how dangerous it is when bikers left to their own devices are not taken out by people making mistakes in cars.
I can't remember people saying how selfish off piste skiiers are to their loved ones and the people who have to dig them out. That's because snow is fluffy and not seen as dangerous, even though the stats say that off piste skiing is one of the most dangerous leisure pursuits this side of base jumping.
So no most crashes are not caused by the rider going too fast into a bend.
I had quite a loud exhaust on my bike (was being used on track) and recently I changed it as it annoyed me let alone others. However one of the reasons people do it is to be noticed by car drivers.
Horseshit.
There I said it.
Your motorbike must fail it’s MOT every year if you rely on loud exhausts as a location deterrent.
Are your motorbikes not fitted with a HORN any longer ?
Or has the Law changed in that respect?
You fit loud exhausts because you like to make a racket while using the highway, there is no other argument.
Bikebouy Horseshit back to you buddy !!!!
A bloody horn is too late after someone has just turned into the side of you.
If you are going to be rude to me I will be rude to you, stop talking crap about something you know nothing about mate !!! There I said it 🙂
Loads of reason for an after market exhaust.
Cheaper than a OEM one to replace after crash
Bike used on track to so tuned for power
Lighter than standard item
Looks better than standard item.
Some might like it stupid loud I guess, no accounting for taste some people ride Whyte mountain bikes 🙂 But to say making a racket on the highway is the only reason, shows a lack of understand or more likely trolling 🙂
If its CE marked it will pass an MOT they don't test it with a sound meter. I don't run a load exhaust on my bikes anymore but I certainly understand those who do. I myself have heard a bike in my car before I have seen it so it deffo works !!
Anyway Bikebouy do you think we are so poor like cyclists that we can't afford bikes that are less than 3 years old 😀
MOT how crazy 🙂
Still not answered the question though.
You may like loud exhausts, but there is no reason for them.
A Horn is the recognised location beacon, not a loud exhaust.
You are right though, I know nothing about bikes (except trials from BITD) and a Vespa for riding around town on.
Neither had a loud exhaust, I didn’t have any problems riding either and the occasional vehicle that pulled out got a blat from my horn.. as in the Highway Code.
But then, the 10% or so of motorbike riders who ride like loonies and have loud exhausts and such don’t really care about other road users.
You are just out having fun on the public highway..
A lot of aftermarket exhausts these days are sold with removable baffles. You put them in for use on the road (or just for your mot depending on your point of view) and pop them out for track days/ so car drivers hear you/ just to be antisocial (delete as applicable)
i keep mine in on the road before anybody asks!
I think I did answer the question "A bloody horn is too late after someone has just turned into the side of you." I think you just didn't read what was there.
I actually find them really annoying to be honest, however I don't pre-judge peoples reasons for fitting them.
A Horn is the recognised location beacon, not a loud exhaust.
Are you suggesting people ride along with there finger on the horn continuously to make sure car drivers know they are there before they make a right turn or pull out at a junction 🙂 Surely that would be more annoying, than a fruity exhaust 🙂
You are just out having fun on the public highway..
Like a group of 10 club cyclists holding up traffic ? We all have a right to use the roads for fun or for transport. Or is it just motorbikes that are not allowed to used the roads for recreation ?
A Horn is the recognised location beacon, not a loud exhaust.
You really aren’t getting it.
If you’d ever heard a motorcycle horn you’d laugh. They’re feeble and useless. I put a really loud horn on the CRF though....
To be fair if you missed my bike coming at you you should be shot. Headlight, daytime running lights, front indicators always on a steady light (only flash when indicating) and 2 fog lights on the crash bars. It’s like having a fairground ride coming at you!
Guys he gets it hes just trolling, you would have to be an idiot not to understand that a louder exhaust would make you more noticeable to car drivers, which in some situations would prevent an accident. Your not an idiot are you bikerbouy? So you must be a troll?
I just got back to from Portimao track trip early this week and some of the exhausts were ridiculous, there really is no need for that !!!
You may like loud exhausts, but there is no reason for them.
There's no reason to remove your bell and reflectors from your bike but I bet you've done it.
If you’d ever heard a motorcycle horn you’d laugh. They’re feeble and useless. I put a really loud horn on the CRF though….
This. Bike horns are generally crap, a moderately loud exhaust bouncing off the limiter is a) far easier and quicker to get to than fumbling for the horn and b) much, much more effective at making sleepy car drivers too busy watching EastEnders to look in their mirrors.
Also there's the general 'presence' they give you, filtering through traffic with a bit of noise makes you more 'visible' to drivers as they hear your before they see you. Unless you want us to have our horn constantly on when filtering I don't see how a horn is any sort of alternative.
Stupidly loud exhausts - yes they can be a menace. Moderately loud though, no issues. Bikes are generally louder than cars anyway due to shorter exhaust systems, less silencers, and a much highte state of tune.
As for dark visors, sigh... Most helmets don't have drop down tinted visors, in the middle of summer or an evening low sun can be fatally dangerous. Also they're not actually that dark when you're wearing them.
There’s no reason to remove your bell and reflectors from your bike but I bet you’ve done it.
And how does than annoy other people?
There’s no reason to remove your bell and reflectors from your bike but I bet you’ve done it.
And how does than annoy other people?
By having to shout loudly rather than giving them a little tinkle. Also what about the mental trauma to the car driver who does not see them due to lack of reflectors and hits them 🙂
There are lots of things that annoy us, sometimes we have to live and let live a little and understand we sometimes have be a little bit understanding.
And how does than annoy other people?
Never had the redsocks shout "where's your bell"? I'd say they're annoyed.
I read a really interesting article about how motorcycles are often vulnerable when approaching on the major road with a car turning across the road from a minor road, a classic SMIDSY. They were trying to recommend something called the SMIDSYIAM, where as you approach so tip it left and right (like a weave) so you show you're clearly there and moving
It was a good article and helped to explain why they happen so often. It wasn't excusing them, but was trying to help explain them to vulnerable motorcycle users. Must try and track down the article
I’ve got no problem with taking the bell and reflectors off a bicycle. None at all.
I certainly wouldn’t go riding pinging the bell every 3seconds to annoy other road users, nope I see your argument is flawed and has no merit nor comparison.
Ding, Dong.
As for motorbike riders wearing tinted visors, that’s certainly a reality but one I have no problem with in the slightest. In fact I find it an odd Law to enforce when there are more interesting Laws to enforce.
The argument about loud exhausts will continue and rage along the highway for years to come. No motorbike rider has the right to break the Law when it comes to how loud they want to make themselves. Your argument falls flat when you have a Horn to use, whether that horn is loud enough is certainly a question to ask, but for this argument loud exhausts do not replace a facility that is there primarily to make aware other road users that you are in thier vicinity and would like to make them aware that you are about to make a manoeuvre that they should be aware of.
Quite simple really.
Bollocks.
You’d be beeping your horn almost constantly.
Most of the loud exhausts you think are illegal probably aren’t. Nobody is going to keep swapping end cans at MOT time.
Another point is why are they making electric cars with fake engine sounds now? It’s there to alert other road users and pedestrians to an oncoming vehicle.
Or should Tesla drivers have to constantly beep their horns?
There are lots of things that annoy us, sometimes we have to live and let live a little and understand we sometimes have be a little bit understanding.
As it is 100% down to the person choosing a noisy exhaust then the understanding lies with them, not with the people they are annoying.
Any other law breaking where we should live and let live ?
@bikebouy So let me get this straight you regardless of the legal or moral implications of it you honestly think that there are no times that a loud exhaust would make the presence of bike known where there would be no time to hit the horn?
Any other law breaking where we should live and let live ?
Kids riding on pavements?
As it is 100% down to the person choosing a noisy exhaust then the understanding lies with them, not with the people they are annoying.
Any other law breaking where we should live and let live ?
Yep the ones that help save lives. Also if its CE marked its legal regardless of what you think, thats the only test it needs to pass.
You lot are hilarious, on one hand you want bikers to behave in a way that's safer, then when they make themselves more noticeable and thus safer you moan about that too.
I bet you lot would be antisocial and ride a trail in the Lake District on a busy Bank Holiday weekend and think it was perfectly fine to terrorise walkers and families, that's legal so all fine !!!
Mind you most of you are probably in a coffee shop working out what the next thing to be offended by is 🙂
If you’d ever heard a motorcycle horn you’d laugh. They’re feeble and useless.
Years ago, when I was London despatch rider / courier, I ended up fitting a bloody great air horn to my top box. It was so loud that it had the curious effect of freezing traffic in terror, mid-manouevre which wasn't always a desirable thing. It sounded like something off an artic...
There was an study years ago that suggested motorists 'didn't see' motorcycles because they didn't view them as a threat to them sub-consciously. If however, you dress a bike up to look like a police motorcycle, suddenly it becomes very visible indeed. I reckon making it look like a helicopter gun-ship might work even better.
Any other law breaking where we should live and let live?
Kids riding on pavements?
People using bikes as two wheeled wheelchairs or push chairs in pedestrian only zones?
When I had a knackered knee I couldn't walk but cycling was tolerable if I took it steady - the only way I could get into town was by bike. My nearest town is a long walk or a short cycle ride. When I need to take my 2yo son into town it's much easier to use his seat on the bike as an improvised push chair rather than load a push chair into a car and find parking etc. Plus adding to traffic. (He can be quite noisy as well which can warn people of our approach but I probably ought not to mention that on this thread!)
Full disclosure: I also use my push bicycle for having fun on the public highway, which I'm confident nobody else on STW does.
Also there’s the general ‘presence’ they give you, filtering through traffic with a bit of noise makes you more ‘visible’ to drivers as they hear your before they see you.
Is there any actual evidence for this? Only time I notice load exhausts is as a pedestrian, in a modern car with the radio on, they don't make an difference....
I got so annoyed with walkers asking me where my bell was that I went and bought one for my G-160 - one of those matt black ones of eBay so I don’t look like a 5 year old - it’s flipping brilliant and I think they should be compulsory 😂
joking about the compulsory bit but not the brilliant bit!
Also there’s the general ‘presence’ they give you, filtering through traffic with a bit of noise makes you more ‘visible’ to drivers as they hear your before they see you.
Is there any actual evidence for this? Only time I notice load exhausts is as a pedestrian, in a modern car with the radio on, they don’t make an difference….
So no chance of hearing a horn then?
Have you thought you should probably turn it down so you are aware of your environment? If you failed to hear a horn surely that would be driving without due care and attention ?
Just saying like 🙂
How can the motorcyclist heat anything with that noisy illegal exhaust (plus earplugs, helmet etc.)
Better if everyone keeps the noise down and concentrates on safe driving.
Anyone can go a CBT for ~£150 and get on the road with a 125. Hardly expensive and adequate for 80% of general miles that most people do.
As a skinny 17yr old they were fine.
As a 6ft 16st 30something I'd struggle to motor pace a chain gang on one!
So no chance of hearing a horn then?
Horns aren't so much part of the background as engine/exhaust noise.
Its like compulsory DLR's though. Motorcycle organisations campaigned against them because motorbikes generally had them on all the time anyway, so if everyone had them they became less effective. Similarly if car drivers were to get used to 'looking' for something with a 105db screaming exhaust they won't 'see' a cyclist.
And on a Venn diagram of motorcyclists the overlap between those in hi-vis and those with horribly loud exhaust is pretty small.
You may like loud exhausts, but there is no reason for them.
I’ve got no problem with taking the bell and reflectors off a bicycle. None at all.
So, there's no reason for a loud exhaust, ergo don't fit one. But there is a reason for a bell and reflectors, which you're happy to remove? Right you are.
How can the motorcyclist heat anything with that noisy illegal exhaust (plus earplugs, helmet etc.)
Better if everyone keeps the noise down and concentrates on safe driving.
You'd think that but it's the complete opposite. With earplugs in and a fairly noisy exhaust I've been able to hear ambulances/police cars well before I've seen them multiple times, certainly earlier than the average driver. Ear plugs don't make you deaf, they just cut out the damaging wind noise.
I read a really interesting article about how motorcycles are often vulnerable when approaching on the major road with a car turning across the road from a minor road, a classic SMIDSY. They were trying to recommend something called the SMIDSYIAM, where as you approach so tip it left and right (like a weave) so you show you’re clearly there and moving
It was a good article and helped to explain why they happen so often. It wasn’t excusing them, but was trying to help explain them to vulnerable motorcycle users. Must try and track down the article
There's a really good video that demonstrates this, it shows that an approaching bike starts very small, stays small until it's less that 20ft from you, then get VERY large very quickly. Also shows that if you see a car side on and there's no movement between the car and the background then they also can see no movement between you and your background as a biker. Hence, the 'smidsy weave' to highlight your presence by making unnatural movements.
Here it is:
sometimes we have to live and let live a little and understand we sometimes have be a little bit understanding
This is type of comment is only ever made by people who expect others to make allowances for their selfish behaviour.
I know little about motorbikes, other than they are unpleasantly and unnecessarily noisy. I find cars too noisy too. I’m not sure there would be any need to give electric cars fake engine noise, if people drove with regard for more vulnerable road users like pedestrians. It would seem they may be necessary however, to allow people to drive in way that forces others to get out of their way.
Also there’s the general ‘presence’ they give you, filtering through traffic with a bit of noise makes you more ‘visible’ to drivers as they hear your before they see you.
Is there any actual evidence for this? Only time I notice load exhausts is as a pedestrian, in a modern car with the radio on, they don’t make an difference….
So no chance of hearing a horn then?
Have you thought you should probably turn it down so you are aware of your environment? If you failed to hear a horn surely that would be driving without due care and attention ?
Just saying like
Whenever I am cycling and an ambulance/police car comes along with its siren blaring, cars appear to take ages before they notice the sound, the ambulance needs to be virtually beside them. I too am dubious a noisy exhaust makes a motor cyclist more ‘visible’. Even if it did to a large extent, to rely on its affect and ride in a more risky manner sounds questionable.
Are loud exhausts not just used as part of the machismo?
Are loud exhausts not just used as part of the machismo?
they are really cool, well they are if you are a 12 year old boy who still wets the bed.
they are really cool, well they are if you are a 12 year old boy who still wets the bed.......
Or a 60 year old man who doesn't give a shit what you think.
Or a 60 year old man who doesn’t give a shit what you think.
Sums up the attitude very well, thanks.
The motorcyclists on this thread seem to be very, very defensive for what are attacks on the idiot type of motorcylist. I wouldn't defend an idiotic cyclist and I wouldn't defend an idiotic driver.
I dislike car drivers who have excessively noisy exhausts too and those noisy cyclists that have plastic cards hitting the spokes in their back wheel (you need to be old to remember that)
Every little helps when it comes to staying out the way of other motorists and staying alive. Be that a loud exhaust, bright headlights, high visibility jacket, a white helmet, defensive riding techniques, and so on. Each thing might only help 1% but that 1% could save a bikers life when that one driver 'nearly' doesn't see them.
Out of all our road users, I would expect cyclists to relate to this the most! I barely do a mile of road on my cycle commute but I feel far more vulnerable in that mile than I do on a 10 mile motorbike commute.
Also, you're either a petrol head or you're not, regardless of your age, I adore the sound of a V4 bike engine on full song, same as I love the sound of a V8 or V10 car engine. I despise the sound of a 125 with a tiny can which just sounds obnoxious. The same as I hate the sound of a 1.2l vauxhall Corsa with a stupidly load exhaust, again it's not needed. Cars/bikes that sound nice are part of the love of motoring and the love of performance cars/bikes, it goes hand in hand.
I know little about motorbikes, other than they are unpleasantly and unnecessarily noisy. I find cars too noisy too. I’m not sure there would be any need to give electric cars fake engine noise, if people drove with regard for more vulnerable road users like pedestrians.
The fake noise thing is to stop kids walking out into the road.
gauss1777
...Are loud exhausts not just used as part of the machismo?
It's to drown out the rattles of distress from the engine.
Usually caused by amateur tuning by nongs who think they know better than the engineers who developed the engine in a multi million pound engineering project.
I know this because... 🙂