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What are your favourite B-roads for a bit of spirited driving? I know there are a couple of decent ones on the Shropshire border which take you into the Tanat valley area. There's also stuff out towards Vrynwy and Llanberis but my knowledge is a bit patchy and I'd like a decent route to do from Shropshire and back in a few hours.
I think you have covered the nice one over to Bala.
There’s the EVO Triangle too
I’ve not been living in the area long enough to work out all the best stuff, but we do get some lovely cars going through the Tanat Valley
No idea about the "spirited driving" bit but I did a classic car run a couple of weeks ago and the the roads around the Mach Loop (so B4405 up the valley) and around Dolgellau are lovely.
It was sunny and I was lent a convertible 993 for the weekend - couldn't have been better frankly.
The A4212 out of Bala to Trawsfynydd is proper - but not a B road obvs!
the B4391 Llan Festiniog to Llyn Celyn is the road you are looking for.... @52.9583173,-3.8852378,3a,75y,268.03h,75.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgqTzco26ppOZ-pyFgdQG-Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en">think it's one of top gears favourite roads. Apart from the views it's the quality of the tarmac that appeals the most so smooth and pothole free
TrailriderJim
Full MemberWhat are your favourite B-roads for a bit of spirited driving?
Grow up! Spend some of your pocket money on a track day if you fancy some “spirited driving”. Don’t come tear-arsing around my back yard like an over privileged ****er.
I find that many of those roads have motorbikes doing spirited riding and fat cyclists like me shaking their first at the spirited riders/drivers
We've just had 2 weeks in mid and south Wales and the motorbike riders were mostly utter cocks.
Grow up! Spend some of your pocket money on a track day if you fancy some “spirited driving”. Don’t come tear-arsing around my back yard like an over privileged ****.
Calm down Karen.
I don't think this thread is going to go the way you wanted it to.
Wait until all the roadies get back from their Sunday pootles.
Sorry, I'm with tillydog on this.
Just because some media tossers think it's fine to rag around on roads used by locals, walkers and cyclists doesn't make it right.
Those roads are all much busier than usual this year too.
Please don't.
Im with tillydog as well
Grow up! Spend some of your pocket money on a track day if you fancy some “spirited driving”. Don’t come tear-arsing around my back yard like an over privileged ****.
This.
There are pleasing windy roads you can drive on, many of them A roads, at sensible speeds but don't let rip as it's extremely antisocial and unpleasant for everyone, never mind the danger.
We live a few hundred metres away from a dual carriageway leading out of Cardiff and most evenings and weekends every few minutes you hear some noisy sod flooring it out of the speed limit. My daughter keeps her windows closed all summer when it's baking in her room cos she doesn't like the noise.
A55 is probably the best road, but it's a bit further north.
Wait until all the roadies get back from their Sunday pootles.
Sorry I didn’t make it clear I am a local roadie, I love seeing some of the nice cars being driven in a spirited manor through the Tanat Valley whilst I’m out on the road bike.
Makes a change from the local idiots who cannot drive and are a liability
I'd much rather be passed by a fast biker than a caravan or motorhome. Bikers are generally far more aware of blind entrances, safety etc as their lives depend on it.
OP - Dinas Mawddy can be good. I also like stopping at the Clywedog reservoir just North of Llanidloes, but that road is very much not for spirited driving, small vehicles only.
Im with tillydog....just grow up and take it to a track.
That stuff really isnt welcome on any roads
Ian
Bikers are generally far more aware of blind entrances, safety etc as their lives depend on it.
That's why you hardly ever see them in A&E smashed up, and you probably don't know any bikers who've got metal pins in their bones and similar.
You would be surprised Moley - to ride a motorbike you have to be much more aware of everything around you. Less likely to crash, outcomes if you do are worse
Have you ever ridden one?
That’s why you hardly ever see them in A&E smashed up, and you probably don’t know any bikers who’ve got metal pins in their bones and similar.
Good point, well made.
That kind of spirited driving on B roads in n Wales has led to serious injury and death of motorcyclists. Don’t be one of them. Thankfully a lot of the B roads now have average speed cameras to save people from themselves.
I haven't said anything about the safety of biking for the biker. As a cyclist/other vulnerable road user, I'd much rather share space with a fast biker than a tourist/school run SUV/caravan.
Complain about caravans in North Wales - fine. Complain about bikes? Not really.
These bikers who are so aware of all their surroundings that the vast majority of them think it’s a good idea to ride within 2m of the car in front’s bumper whilst they wait for their next overtake?
As above really, grow up. It's not a toy.
APF
As an aside, I properly hate the term 'spirited driving', like it's some sort of jolly jape. I put in the same ****y, entitled box as 'cheeky trails'. If you own a Porsche and drive like a loon on country roads, you're 'spirited'. If you have a chavved up Nova or one of those shite black Audi A3s, you're reckless. Because as well all know, spending more on a car makes you a better driver.
I’d much rather be passed by a fast biker than a caravan or motorhome. Bikers are generally far more aware of blind entrances, safety etc as their lives depend on it.
Which is all great until said oncoming 'fast biker' drifts over the centre line on a blind bend because he or she is feeling 'spirited'.
Speaking of which:
I love seeing some of the nice cars being driven in a spirited manor through the Tanat Valley whilst I’m out on the road bike.
Please don't publish them on a public forum, the last time this happened the evo triangle got invaded and now we have average speed cameras every where
Average speed cameras so you cant speed??
As before, grow up and take it to a track.
Ian
'Kin hell people - lighten up!
You can "push on a bit" and enjoy driving your car (which doesn't have to have to have huge power) on interesting roads without being a complete moron, whilst entirely in control, and wholly within the law. Not everyone who's into cars is akin to an 18 year old with a red top in a Nova.
'Spirited driving' neither has to be reckless or illegal, and is a quite legitimate pastime. I agree it's best not to publish routes or roads on an open forum, and feel for people who live on roads that have become a mecca for idiots, but we're not the police - actual or moral.
To the OP - go do it, responsibly, and just google where to go - there will be plenty of information out there for you!
Recreational driving on B roads is for arseholes. Find something better to do with your time.
Well this escalated quickly, didn't it?
The OP says 'spirited driving' and some of you wildly assume he is going to drive like a knob?
I've done lots of these 'spirited drives' back in the days of my hot hatches and I didn't die, drive wrecklessly, or cause road rage. I also have a motorbike and the same can be said for that. I can ride fast in the right conditions and be very safe. And yes, riding a bike is a completely different type of ride/drive. So much more to take into account and the consequences are not worth thinking about.
Horseshoe pass would be a road I'd recommend OP, near Llangollen.
I’ve done lots of these ‘spirited drives’ back in the days of my hot hatches and I didn’t die, drive wrecklessly, or cause road rage.
Yeah a lot of people do though. Why do you think this comment got the response it did? Because we drive and ride around these places and we have to deal with absolute arseholes doing exactly what the OP appears to be suggesting he wants to do.
It's quite possible that when doing this kind of driving you are oblivious to the effect it has on others. I have driven fast on windy country roads, and enjoyed it, and I love doing it. But I don't any more. Not because I am too old or nervous, but because I realised as I grew up that it's a dick move.
I can ride fast in the right conditions and be very safe.
No-one does things they think are unsafe. They wouldn't do it otherwise. But the fact that so many peopel demonstrably ARE unsafe suggests that people are very bad at determining what 'safe' actually is. Never mind the antisocial aspect of it.
‘Kin hell people – lighten up!
How many of us have lost loved ones due to this sort of behaviour, and the culture that creates it?
Less likely to crash
Erm yeah I'm not going to take your word for that, sorry.
The causality rate for motorcyclists decreased in 2017 but remains at an exceptionally high figure of 6,042 per billion passenger miles travelled
Pedal bikes saw an increase in causalities per mile travelled with an amount of 5,604
The pedestrian casualty rate stands at a consistent level of around 1,800 for both years
For cars, the 2017 figures amount to 238 casualty rate per billion passenger miles
Nice one molgrips, thanks for lumping us all into the same group. I'm well aware of the stats for deaths on our roads, thanks.
Why do you think this comment got the response it did?
Again, stop assuming everyone is the same. At least have a think about the person who is posted and perhaps side on them being a rational human being who isn't out to be wreckless rather than shout out that everyone is not going to be responsible.
And as for people not doing things they think are unsafe, er, what? I know plenty of people who do things they know are unsafe, or dangerous, but do it anyway.
The other week, we were in some roadworks between Llandovery and Llanwrtyd Wells with a rolling 10mph convoy/escort vehicle (probably to protect the workers from daft people). Anyway despite the narrow lanes, the four morons on their crotch rockets were doing their very best to overtake every vehicle in the queue behind the red light and also whilst moving through the roadworks area behind the escort vehicle - the road was barely 8ft wide. Absolute muppets.
Before anyway says it's not every rider, there is always one in every group. You'd think given how vulnerable they are that racing to overtake, then pull in just in front of you, to then brake sharply wouldn't be a good idea.
Molgrips - what that shows is the severity of crashes not the incidence because it is not showing the amount of crashes per mile but the amount of injuries.
As an aside, I properly hate the term ‘spirited driving’, like it’s some sort of jolly jape. I put in the same ****, entitled box as ‘cheeky trails’
That's ****in insane. You'd categorise someone who goes out essentially racing on public roads with someone who rides a mtb on a path.
Wow. Just wow
Anonymity breeds contempt. It's road rage in forum format really isn't it? I'm sure face to face we'd all be a bit more rational with one another.
...stop assuming everyone is the same. At least have a think about the person who is posted and perhaps side on them being a rational human being who isn’t out to be wreckless rather than shout out that everyone is not going to be responsible
Well said. OP was written with fun and safety in mind. I don't want to go out and wreck an expensive car, let alone risk any lives. Lots of factors not possible to cover in a forum thread, such as considering when and where to increase speed. 60 mph at 6:00 am on an empty road across moorland, with plenty of visible open road ahead can still offer a spirited driving experience.
I can ride fast in the right conditions and be very safe.
Yeah bollocks to the noise pollution and air pollution, you crack on.
you crack on
Thanks, appreciate it.
As an aside, I properly hate the term ‘spirited driving’, like it’s some sort of jolly jape. I put in the same *, entitled box as ‘cheeky trails’
That’s * insane. You’d categorise someone who goes out essentially racing on public roads with someone who rides a mtb on a path.
Wow. Just wow
The potential consequences may not be as high, but the 'rules don't apply to me' sense of entitlement is similar, if by 'cheeky trails' we are talking about riding on public footpaths.
From say, an elderly walkers perspective it's just as intimidating, frightening and illegal.
People are blinkered hypocrites, they justify rule breaking when it comes to their own chosen leisure activity, but demonise others for breaking the rules they think matter.
I'm not sitting in judgement of either btw, because I've been guilty of both in the past.
Roads are not to be "enjoyed" by motor traffic. Their use is a (revokable) privilege to get you from A-B, nothing more, nothing less
60 mph at 6:00 am on an empty road across moorland, with plenty of visible open road ahead can still offer a spirited driving experience.
Bollox it can - thats pootling along slowly
" spirited driving" means exceeding speed limits
Stop trying to row back from your original post.
No-one does things they think are unsafe.
Are you joking or naive? Many, many people do things they know to be unsafe on a regular basis. MTBing, scuba diving, sky diving to name just three. Not every MTBer is a bridleway plodder, some get out there and push their limits on every ride. If you think Scuba diving is safe you're a liability to everyone around you, and jumping out of a perfectly serviceable aircraft? ****ing mental! And don't get me started on cycle commuters...
"From say, an elderly walkers perspective it’s just as intimidating, frightening and illegal"
Except riding on footpaths isn't illegal....
We live a few hundred metres away from a dual carriageway leading out of Cardiff
Hm that narrows it down a bit! I'll keep an eye out for a Merc on stands, on my cycle home from work. Or maybe I'll boot it that bit harder when I drive there 😉
I'll just add that, as someone who lives on a moorland road that is seemingly quite popular for 'spirited driving', I'd ask people to really, really think about where it's appropriate and where it's not.
In lots of cases, even when you think you're in the middle of nowhere there will be driveways you don't know about, never mind horses/walkers/cyclists around that bend, and and as much as you might like the sound of your engine revving hard, the people that live nearby very probably don't so much (and the sound really, really carries).
So, well, as I say, please think.
as much as you might like the sound of your engine revving hard, the people that live nearby very probably don’t so much (and the sound really, really carries).
Many times this. I live on what was once a nicely peaceful road on the edge of the Peak District. The amount of motorcyclists and folk in fast cars popping/banging past my front garden is having a massive negative impact on my mental health.
It's driven me to tears before and if I wake up after 3am I generally can't get back to sleep for fear of the first person doing some 'spirited driving' past my house on their early commute, which I'm sure they think is very safe because the roads are empty at that time 🙁 .
Are you joking or naive?
No, experienced. Everyone has a limit beyond which they think '**** this'. The other side of that limit = unsafe, this side = safe. People appreciate there is some risk, but they think it's small enough to be worth it.
It is thanks to people travelling to Wales to do some spirited driving, and then publishing said videos or details of that spirited driving road on the tinterweb for all to see, and as a result attracting even more spirited drivers to the spirited driving road, that we now have average speed cameras and policemen hidden inside parked horse boxes etc. on most of the roads that were previously the best for spirited driving.
My suggestion would be to buy yourself an OS map and then go and explore for yourself, preferably somewhere far away from any roads suggested by people on the internet. And if you find a nice stretch of road to enjoy, perhaps consider keeping it to yourself.
that we now have average speed cameras and policemen hidden inside parked horse boxes etc. on most of the roads that were previously the best for spirited driving.
Good. It makes driving through Wales more relaxing. I wish there were average speed cameras on all roads.
Good. It makes driving through Wales more relaxing. I wish there were average speed cameras on all roads.
I guess if you are someone who is a below averagely skilled driver or someone who likes to switch off and simply get from A to B then yes, average speed cameras make things easier for you as you sit in a procession and can disengage your brain. All vehicles are reduced to the lowest common denominator.
For those of us though who actually like driving and are capable of selecting a safe speed for the conditions, then average speed cameras are a pain in the bum and ruin any enjoyment of driving, and the view with those big yellow poles in scenic locations.
That said through the average cameras on the Cat and Fiddle road near Macclesfield I have worked out you can have a spirited drive through the most fun section, blats up to 80 on the short straights but less than 30 in the tightest bends, and you'd struggle to do the 50 average. And that's in a car with 400bhp. No coppers around either since they installed the new cameras. Bonus!
That said through the average cameras on the Cat and Fiddle road near Macclesfield I have worked out you can have a spirited drive through the most fun section, blats up to 80 on the short straights but less than 30 in the tightest bends, and you’d struggle to do the 50 average. And that’s in a car with 400bhp. No coppers around either since they installed the new cameras.
And because of cocks like you I no longer cycle on that road.
If you cannot beat a 50 mph average on the cat and fiddle you cannot drive properly
You with your 400 bhp penis extension. I could do it on my 40 bhp vintage bike
Warra plonker
I think @wurst.experience is just a troll with a flaccid phallus
Go to bed you silly sausage
3 posts to his name - 2 on this thread and one on the petrol thread
And because of cocks like you I no longer cycle on that road.
But I always slow down and/or give cyclists plenty of room, normally fully over the other side of the road when I'm passing, and never pass when there could be traffic coming the other way. So how does that make me a cock?
Whenever I've cycled the Cat and Fiddle on the road bike, and I still do from time to time, the problem drivers are the trucks and other traffic that pass far too closely. Normally at way less than the speed limit.
I think the issue you have is confusing speed with bad driving.
I guess if you are someone who is a below averagely skilled driver or someone who likes to switch off and simply get from A to B then yes, average speed cameras make things easier for you as you sit in a procession and can disengage your brain. All vehicles are reduced to the lowest common denominator.
What ****ing bonkers self justifying twisted rubbish is that?
For those of us though who actually like driving and are capable of selecting a safe speed for the conditions, then average speed cameras are a pain in the bum and ruin any enjoyment of driving
No no no.
1) Everyone THINKS they are great drivers, but much of the time they are wrong. I'm a good driver, generally, BUT I make mistakes like everyone does and I acknowledge this, and I rarely if every drive fast. That should be NEVER but I do slip sometimes. This is wrong. Driving is not a game. You can get pleasure from driving whilst travelling a sensible PREDICTABLE and economical speed. Once you realise this, life is better. Enjoy the scenery, relax, be comfortable, choose quiet scenic roads, it's great. Speed is not required.
2) Even if you were an amazing driver it wouldn't make any ****ing difference because it's shit for everyone else when you zoom about indulging yourself. We hate it. You're being a dick.
And you are confusing owning a 400bhp penis extension with being able to drive.
Everyone THINKS they are great drivers, but much of the time they are wrong.
Where did I say I was a great driver? We all make mistakes and also need to make allowances for the mistakes of others. The extra and frequent driver training I've had though since passing my test does probably make me more skilled than the average driver.
Even if you were an amazing driver it wouldn’t make any **** difference because it’s shit for everyone else when you zoom about indulging yourself. We hate it. You’re being a dick.
I don't care less whether you hate it or not. Your preferences have no sway over how I choose to live my life. I probably hate some of the stuff you do, but I wouldn't call you a dick for having a difference of opinion. That would be a dick move!
And you are confusing owning a 400bhp penis extension with being able to drive.
Nope, read my first reply above. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Going below 30 mph on the bends and being unable to reach 50 mph average on the cat and fiddle with a 400 bhp car but still thinking its "spirited driving" shows you cannot drive properly
I know that road well. I was riding it when you were in nappies
I think you are just a troll.
Going below 30 mph on the bends and being unable to reach 50 mph average on the cat and fiddle with a 400 bhp car but still thinking its “spirited driving” shows you cannot drive properly
Not on the section I am talking about with the most bends you can't, not with leaving an adequate margin for safety in any case. And if you are averaging more than 50 then you clearly are not making adequate allowances for other road users or potential hazards.
Spirited driving does not mean maxing out a car on the public road, it just means selecting the most appropriate speed for the conditions, the fastest safe speed, which is sometimes above and sometimes below the posted limit.
I'd have though you would have known this stuff? It sounds like your idea of a 'spirited drive' involves maxing out the available grip and power of a vehicle on the public highway? Can't condone that sort of thing.
the most appropriate speed for the conditions, the fastest safe speed
The fastest safe (and even leaving the definition of 'safe' for now) speed is very rarely the correct measure for the most appropriate speed.
I don’t care less whether you hate it or not. Your preferences have no sway over how I choose to live my life.
Nice.
I’ve been looking at buying a Porsche recently. The insurance is less than 1/2 that of a bog standard Fiesta I used to have, so statistically they must be safer
I still stand that I would prefer to be passed by someone driving spirited (or whatever term we are allowed to use) rather than like most folk who are clueless
I’ve just come back from the Isle of Man, many roads with no speed limits. There was lots of controlled spirited driving going on in some lovely cars and bikes.
The car I was in couldn’t get much over 110mph on the mountain road
People who own cars with 250+ BHP and don't take them on a track are fools imo.
'Spirited driving' down a B-road is more dangerous, frustrating to locals and you'll never get close to using more than half of the car's capability.
You can still enjoy driving without an emphasis on speed.
Concentrate on other road users, smoothness, positioning, balance and awareness.
It's what grown ups do. 🙂
Next time they come round a corner halfway over the line is there any way I can tell a spirited driver from someone 'clueless' so I know if I'm in danger or not? They all look the same to me
I don’t care less whether you hate it or not.
Can you explain how this doesn't make you a dick? Caring about others is a baseline requirement for not being a dick. It's not just me, you realise that right? The response on the thread should indicate that.
Time to have sit-down and a think.
One of my recent experiences of 'spirited' driving was when a friend of mine was delayed meeting us a Ogwen on the A5 a few of years ago. Somewhere between Bethesda and Ogwen a motorbike overtook straight into the car coming the other way. My mate was called to the inquest and was extremely shaken up, depite being unhurt, unlike the driver going the other way of the biker who is now dead.
Please try to drive sensibly.
Horseshoe pass would be a road I’d recommend OP, near Llangollen.
Hopefully not tomorrow morning (Sunday 3 Oct) as a large number of cyclists will be riding up it in the Wrexham RC Hill Climb. And anyhow there's too much 'spirited' driving and motorcycling up there already!
When I first had a driving licence I did more than my share of selfish dickhead driving. It was effing stupid and dangerous and I'm just so relieved no-one got hurt. Several people I knew weren't so lucky.
I live at the bottom of the Brynamman Mountain Road, one of Clarkson's favorites. Driving Gods flock to the place most weekends and tbh sometimes slow the traffic. It is not unusual to be stuck behind a clot of shiny fastnesses that seem to be waiting to have a spirited run up to Herbert's Quarry and then down to Pont Clydach, Llangadog and then on to Llandovery. There is often a group at Troed yr Gwcwr, a very sharp hairpin, with picnic chairs and cameras. A recent addition to the awesome view out over mid Wales was a car on it's roof in a gully. I hope all involved were OK.
I appreciate that the road is fun to drive, even though it has been restricted to 40mph and then 50mph alongside the Afon Sawdde following too many deaths but seriously why do people need to have to delay others so that they in their turn can drive unencumbered?
Horseshoe pass would be a road I’d recommend OP, near Llangollen.
Certainly an excellent descent for those fond of 'spirited cycling'.
One of my my favourites.
Also a popular hangout for the local Fuzz, who seem to take a particular delight in pulling ****s for illegal numberplates and loud exhausts.
I can't imagine they'd be too impressed by someone in a 400hp ego chariot 'pressing on' along a busy road.
@Ambrose - maybe they're all in a rush to get pies from the butchers in Llangadog?
😉
As a former proponent of "spirited driving" the pointlessness of it was brought into sharp focus on the 2018 Bryan Chapman memorial. On the second day I spent the whole time in the company of a group of motorcyclists who would overtake leap frogging through the traffic gradually getting split up. A short while later I'd pass them all parked up in lay-by whereby the whole process would start again. Imagine all that bhp to average the same speed as a mediocre audaxer! 😂
The days of buying a fast car to enjoy on the road have long since passed, if you do you're a bigger victim of marketing hyperbole than even the most up to date mountain biker! 😉