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But what crime has actually been committed? As i said a couple of pages back, if there's any trail of evidence that they knew it didn't meet standards and sold it as compliant then yes, but otherwise? Lying isn't a crime of itself, only in certain places / to certain people - not the press for sure.
it's crappy procurement practises that are being justified by the emergency, it's sleazy back channels for mates, it's profiteering (IDK margins on PPE but 60M out of a 205M deal for basically being a distributor / middle man seems high - I spent 10 years in chemical distribution where there was high tech service value add and we didn't make anywhere near 30%. It's corruption, for sure but will anything be done about that - I doubt it.
Didn't the husband say that the 30% profit was justified because "it was an incredibly high risk procurement contract because if we didn't deliver the goods we didn't get paid". Unlike other procurement contracts where you get given some money and it's up to you whether you want to actually supply anything...
Some truth in that ^
It's one of those where you are being asked to use your contacts to see if you can buy something at a time that everyone else is trying to buy it. So even if you do want to supply you may invest a lot of time in discussions, travelling to audit factories, whatever, only to finally then be told either there isn't any to supply to you, it's been bought by someone else - or alternatively your buyer has managed to get it elsewhere. And all your time and effort gets nothing. Not unusual to be on a kind of 'retainer' on these sorts of situations so you still get paid something for the effort you made.
I couldn't watch it all, it just makes me too angry.
That said.
It's interesting that they have come out of hiding. I think they see that matters are reaching a critical mass and are attempting to control the narrative.
From what I saw they made a big mistake giving this interview. It only served to show them for what they are, spivs that sought to make money at a time of national emergency. When most of us were trying to do the right thing and look after family, friends and neighbours, this filth saw it as a money making opportunity.
They f******* disgust me.
From what I saw they made a big mistake giving this interview.
It was never going to be anything else. All I could think was ‘Slough Pizza Express’
ratherbeintobago
Full Member
From what I saw they made a big mistake giving this interview.It was never going to be anything else. All I could think was ‘Slough Pizza Express
Yes! I believe the phrase is... Prince Andrew has been in touch to say he thought the interview, went really well.
But what crime has actually been committed?
Probably none, but that's not really the point here. As a member of the House of Lords you should act with honour and integrity, she falls well short of this and used her position for blatant financial gain. She should be expelled from the House of Lords with immediate affect for outright lying!
"As a member of the House of Lords you should act with honour and integrity"
But whaaaat!!!
Has anyone with a brain in the last decade thought that honours, lordships and the like are anything but a reward for a successful grift?
Literally every honour above maybe MBE,OBE has been give to ****s for decades - even sports stuff is totally bollox, Sir Brad, Sir Hoy...Cough cough bollox - sorry but wtaf
But when it gets to the Baroness Scumbag Wartime Profiteer on Bra and yes, Lord Lobby of Chipping Entitled then it really shows how the only members here are us and its as fully paid up members of District 12
Got to love how she hasn't attended the Lords for what, years, due to "needing time to clear her name".
Just hot long does it take to arrange a TV interview?
She's been in hiding in some very posh mansion in some very posh part of the world, simple as that.
I forgot to mention earlier, another sign that they know things are coming to a head is that they have given up hitting anyone so much as asking them the time of day with the threat of litigation.
Hence the move to attempt to control the narrative as what the investigative journalists have been saying is patently true.
But what crime has actually been committed?
Fraud, false representation, false accounting, tax evasion, conspiracy to defraud, bribery....
(all "allegedly" of course - innocent until proven guilty and all that...)
They are right about one thing, they are being used as scapegoats.
they made the mistake of being caught, but it was systematic profiteering during a national crisis, and it was facilitate by the current government.
don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to defend them - far from it. Absolute abuse of position and privilege but peel back the layers and the real disgrace is the system being set up and abused by those in power that enables it.
Fraud, false representation, false accounting, tax evasion, conspiracy to defraud, bribery….<br />(all “allegedly” of course – innocent until proven guilty and all that…)
I do hope so, and I know that there's some heavyweight investigations, but I suspect they'll be just the right side of some very shonky laws because that's how it always goes.
Also aside from £60m profit during a national emergency being ok, the irony of Barrowman saying he pays his taxes, except the money was put into a trust fund, in the Isle of Man. Go figure. I am delighted they did this interview and dug a deeper hole.
Peter Jukes, Bylinetimes and of course the national institution Carol Vorderman are worth checking out on this. Jukes thinks Barrowman has incriminated himself further by decieving Companies Huose by saying he controlled Medpro whilst not being recorded at Companies House. Perfect!
I was skeptical of Keunsberg doing this interview. Maitless or Derbyshire would have skewered them. However they wouldnt have got the gig and Keunsberg let them hang themselves, whilst not saying anything to damage the NCA case. She couldnt mention the question of substandard kit or misrepresentation so just went after profiteering, which isnt a crime. First time in a long time she has gained my respect.
Hopefully the trust fund tax dodge will come under scrutiny from this.
Sir Brad, Sir Hoy…
They are not in the Lords and have no political clout.
They are right about one thing, they are being used as scapegoats.
they made the mistake of being caught, but it was systematic profiteering during a national crisis, and it was facilitate by the current government.
I believe the term used at the time was 'Chumocracy'...
Mo Mone, Mo problems 🙂
But what crime has actually been committed?
Hmm, so theotherjonv, which are you?
A – someone who benefitted
B – a right-wing shill
C – a gullible idiot
Maybe it's my 30 years as an Auditor and a definite struggle I have to see the 'grey', but as pointed out above:
Fraud, false representation, false accounting, tax evasion, conspiracy to defraud, bribery
Facilitated by a corrupt procurement process - it's like the stuff I (professionally) encountered in the early 90's when the Wall came down and Eastern Europe & the USSR turned into the Wild West.
I'm none of them as I hope I've made clear. I very much hope that some of the
Fraud, false representation, false accounting, tax evasion, conspiracy to defraud, bribery
can be proven, as I said in my post last night that you seem to have ignored before attacking me. But I also suspect or fear that they'll find a way to be just the right side of the line - which I'm sure you'll have also encountered as a professional auditor.
In fact that's where your "definite struggle I have to see the ‘grey’ " is the issue. We all know it's bent, but in a binary situation their advisors will be sufficiently skilled to be just legal enough.
She’s a BILF…. A Baroness I’…..
IGMC
At least protection/PPE for the deed shouldn't be in short supply.
At least protection/PPE for the deed shouldn’t be in short supply.
It may not be easy to aquire, what with being stuck in a warehouse (waiting for disposal).
You may have more luck giving the Jungle SAS manchild a message,he knows bloke in a pub
What can be proven is they are both morally corrupt and lacking any remorse.
With that in mind I would suggest getting booted from the Lords should happen.
I suspect, sadly, that they will manage to stay to the right side of what can be proved legally. Plus they will have the resources and 'friends in high places' who will not want the full detail to ever make it into court.
As someone previously involved in setting up some large contracts with Government departments, the endless process and hoops you have to jump through in order to get on contract / draw down funding even as a fully-qualified contractor/supplier. The only people who have the authority to over-ride these rules are Department Under Secretaries and Ministers, so we're obviously only seeing half the story here and the role of various people in the setting up of the VIP Lane and the circumvention of regular process in order to commit large-scale fraud. Its pretty clear that the likes of Gove, Hancock and other were involved here and they should be as much held to account as they facilitated the fraud.
But what crime has actually been committed?
I'll be entirely unsurprised to find that everything they've done is legal. They still decided to prioritize their greed during a national pandemic, tried to hide their involvement, lied about it, and then thought that it would be a good idea to go on telly to try to explain that they still think they've done nothing wrong. Although even other Tories think they're arseholes, so there's that I suppose.
Her wiki has been grim reading for a while
Your comment prompted me to have a read. Crikey, it really is grim.
The interview was nauseating. To suggest she was a victim, to say the only thing she did wrong was to lie and to claim they were just trying to do the moral thing and help the country. You really have to wonder what planet these people are on to think that that sort of chat will help their cause at all.
Plus they will have the resources and ‘friends in high places’ who will not want the full detail to ever make it into court.
It's Starmer's job to make sure it does.
As someone previously involved in setting up some large contracts with Government departments, the endless process and hoops you have to jump through in order to get on contract / draw down funding even as a fully-qualified contractor/supplier. The only people who have the authority to over-ride these rules are Department Under Secretaries and Ministers, so we’re obviously only seeing half the story here and the role of various people in the setting up of the VIP Lane and the circumvention of regular process in order to commit large-scale fraud. Its pretty clear that the likes of Gove, Hancock and other were involved here and they should be as much held to account as they facilitated the fraud.
With that in mind, not to absolve them of anything, do you think they are being served up as a conveniently high profile scapegoat?
The only point she made that I halfway agree with was, everyone was doing it, why are we the bad guys? Neither of them benefit from the old school ties that will protect the government, Gove, Harding et al, so their very public skewering will do nicely as a distraction.
At least protection/PPE for the deed shouldn’t be in short supply.
But possibly not fit for purpose....
Her husbands Wiki is not much better. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Barrowman
I'm just listening to it all on Five Live now. I love his statement: "I'm a very private person and thats why I live on the Isle of Man'
Nothing to do with the tax regime there then? I presume thats just a happy coincidence?
How stupid do they think we all are?
The only point she made that I halfway agree with was, everyone was doing it, why are we the bad guys?
I think - even for the Tories - such a blatant "accumulation" of £60m is enough to raise eyebrows. If it had been £6m, they'd probably have applauded her for it but £60m is taking the piss, even by their standards of treachery and corruption.
Dead cert though that if she'd been a Labour peer, they would not be letting this lie, Sunak would be treating it as if all his Christmases had come at once.
Bloody good job she's not a black woman accused of dodging a train fare, she'd have been hauled violently into jail by a dozen police by now.
With that in mind, not to absolve them of anything, do you think they are being served up as a conveniently high profile scapegoat?
Oh almost certainly, but I think the LK appearance has upped the stakes a bit rather than let it die a death through lack of comment. Will SKS escalate the issue at PMQs now do we reckon?
The only point she made that I halfway agree with was, everyone was doing it, why are we the bad guys? Neither of them benefit from the old school ties that will protect the government, Gove, Harding et al, so their very public skewering will do nicely as a distraction.
It's an interesting one, I'm sure lots of them were taking advantage of the available opportunities, but the way they each went about it probably differed. JRM will just have nudged his fund managers towards the right investments for example but wouldn't have been doing anything as grubby as making introductions himself I'm sure.
Gove particularly seems to have been quite conscious of the potential for future embarrassment/scandal. every time he has been questioned on TV/radio he seems to suggest he only ever put his contacts on to the relevant Public procurement people and sought no further influence or advantage (whether that constituted a bit of queue jumping is another question). I reckon he knew how this would eventually play out and was keen to appear as untarnished as possible, perhaps favouring non-financial compensation and/or some owed favours down the line. all speculation.
Those without the guile to turn down an 'Executive Directorship' or 'Consulting fee', let alone choosing to just spark up their own Ltd Co. deserve to be burnt at the stake.
But I reckon a few of the more slippery members of the Chumocracy will have managed their links to PPE contractors more carefully.
the Fact that Mone had been trying to scare journalists with solicitors letters and says it all.
There will have been lots of journalists digging for the last ~24 months, Mone is potentially the least careful/most clueless tip of a Tory PPE corruption iceberg I reckon...
Tax evasion manual, Chapter 1, paragraph 1.
Follow the money.
Who provided the financial guarantees for the £130+m purchase? Who then guaranteed the importation tax & duty process..? in other words, who else was in on this deal... Who handled the funds, taking a cut along the way?
Then, check the pathway for the income itself; whose hands did this pass through to get to the offshore trust..? Who owns the shares, who stands to gain at every stage of the process..? What did they spend it on. the new yacht appears to have been a particularly badly times acquisition, suggesting a destination for some of those funds. who does own that yacht, anyway? Where else do the family have substantial assets, property, trusts, shareholdings, investments, collections etc.
You really have to wonder what planet
It’s the planet where you cruise around on your private yacht,having 200 million squid contracts thrown your way.
It will be interesting to what comes of this and what they get dragged into court over,if anything.
crazy-legs
I think – even for the Tories – such a blatant “accumulation” of £60m is enough to raise eyebrows. If it had been £6m, they’d probably have applauded her for it but £60m is taking the piss, even by their standards of treachery and corruption.
Exactly - I think if they'd been upfront about it and explained it as "we were trying to help and we built in a decent margin but still undercutting everyone else - just our overheads were very small" there'd be a lot less ire over this. As it is, especially with money going offshore, little tax being paid on it and the deny deny deny tactics of the last few years and they deserve every bit of heat they're getting for it.
Also this "I don't have the money, it's held in trust" schtick isn't fooling anyone. I don't have a family trust but if I did, I'd certainly consider it "my" money. It's like they're on a different ****ing planet.
They'll still walk away very much richer and with a very nice life once all this has blown over.
It’s like they’re on a different ****ing planet.
They are.
People like this are greedy, opportunistic vermin, sociopaths who are a cancer on society..
Why did the idiot Barrowman reveal the percentage profit they made? They could have been evasive or not answered. Almost comes across as bragging about it!!
One does not want one's business colleagues to think one does business with poor margin - its important for investor relations that you sound like 30% is not especially good (which actually I'd agree with - if in the middle of a demand boom like the pandemic they couldn't get 30% margin the business was shite or its management were stupid). The margin was not the scandal - it sounds scandalous to people who don't know how profits work but be assured none of the other suppliers were working for less. The first scandal was the quality of the product which is a matter for the course. The next scandal is that they got VIP'd whilst other, probably better suppliers were getting stuck in bureaucracy. Then there's the scandal that there was no track record or seemingly scrutiny of the vested interested (which is odd, because our company supplied stuff to the government that they came and begged for and we still had to jump through hoops on who everyone of the beneficial owners was!). But that would all have been forgiven if the product was useful.
Then comes the denial scandal which this interview was about. I am sure this happens because of internal belief amongst those close to the idiots. Same thing happened to Andrew. "I believe you. If everyone saw things from your perspective they would believe you too. Lets tell everyone our perspective." Either these people have got fed up listening to the BS and think the world needs to know how our of touch their mates/boss is or they just worship them so much they can't see when they are wrong. Having opened the Kimono, people who have zero interest in offshore tax, family trusts etc are now going "surely that can't be right, I don't do that with my money how do they get to do that with theirs" etc. You aren't going to win the public over with those issues.
What confused me was the "protecting my family defence". Can anyone here, without looking it up, remember any occasion when her family was in the media? I didn't even know she has kids or if her parents are still alive? Does she really mean her husband (i.e. the beneficiary!) or that a relative will call her up and tell her to stop being a spoiled greedy ****? Best way to protect your family is not to do stupid shit!
Why did the idiot Barrowman reveal the percentage profit they made? They could have been evasive or not answered. Almost comes across as bragging about it!!
My take is that they are starting to feel a bit hot under the collar because the NCA investigation and Civil case might be picking up a bit, so this could be prep for whats going to come out by pushing back with the message "we will take you down with us".
The ownership of medpro was always going to come out and now they have put it the public domain.
Egregious profiteering isnt a crime and along with the "we are not the real baddies here it was the people who awarded the contracts" it puts heat on Sunak, Gove etc to let this die of natural causes rather than pursue vigorously and push to be fully resourced before the General Election mid next year.
They might also be thinking a former DPP will know exactly how to go after them when in Govt
The "Baroness Mone and the PPE Scandal" film has only had 43k views so on to Kuensburg to up the anti a bit.
Further pressure on Sunak:
https://twitter.com/MichelleMone/status/1736754263055815050
Why did the idiot Barrowman reveal the percentage profit they made?
Cos it’s harder for innumerate people to convert it to real money. He looked sheepish as **** when he delivered that particular snippet…
The next scandal is that they got VIP’d whilst other, probably better suppliers were getting stuck in bureaucracy.
This is the main issue. There are loads of stories of reputable PPE firms, with bags of experience who could have supplied it, but couldn't get near a government contract. Meanwhile, as the 'VIP lane' was introduced, it seemed like all these (Tory) shysters piled in and well and truly buried their heads in the trough, with little regard to whether the PPE they were sourcing was useable or the contracts deliverable. It looked like a feeding frenzy for the disaster capitalists who now fund the party
Anyway... she's having a pop at Gove now. Looks like she's decided that she fancies taking them all down with her
Rats in a sack
https://twitter.com/MichelleMone/status/1736735992487317595?s=20
And no mention of Hancock and the ex-publican Alex Bourne who could suddenly conjure up £20m worth of vials.
No longer a Conservative peer, or indeed a member of the party now, reportedly. Don't know who dumped who though.
Seems that the lawyer who brought down Zahawi thinks they just admitted criminal activity on the BBC interview. Worth reading the thread to the end.
https://twitter.com/DanNeidle/status/1735987372460749310
inners
This is the main issue. There are loads of stories of reputable PPE firms, with bags of experience who could have supplied it, but couldn’t get near a government contract.
I'm sure those other reputable PPE firms have UK employees, PAYE, Corporation Tax, rent and other bills to pay, all of which help UK Plc. These parasites trousered the lot.
Ain't no doubt it's plain to see,<br />Sixty million quid, no PPE...
I think someone mentioned it earlier, but many of us no doubt have to do our annual mandatory compliance/anti-corruption training at work, and the dodgy scenario you have to answer questions on is remarkably like the thing that's happened here with dodgy "VIP" treatment based on status.
The training scenarios at my work are almost always some unnamed corrupt South/Central American country, but we really are top of the league nowadays for absolute government corruption
Whilst she and her odious husband are clearly the lowest of the low, and will now be chased around the castle by wolves various it is important to remember that they are a symptom (to be eradicated rightly enough) but not the cause.
Don't be distracted
The current Tory party is the disease
but we really are top of the league nowadays for absolute government corruption
It sends out quite a message when a totally discredited politician who was not only proven to be corrupt to the core, but probably a threat to national security to boot, is made a Lord so he can then be appointed Foreign Secretary
kimbers
Full Memberooops
This whole thing about whatsapp is a scandal in its own right. How the **** are they using whatsapp, run by a third party, no security guarantees, apparently no centralised device management/backup etc.
They should be using Wire or similar and the devices should be locked down to ****. Aside from this perverting the course of justice which is clearly occurring, it is a national security risk if the devices are lost.
ooops
Is that evidence of perjury?
Edit: seems the lead rat is fighting real hard, and is happy to call out Lord Bethall.
Of course, I hope that the favour is now returned...
https://twitter.com/MichelleMone/status/1737034753839177995
This whole thing about whatsapp is a scandal in its own right.
Too right, when I first heard they were using WhatsApp for gov business, especially when there are all sorts of rules regarding email use, I thought it didn't seem at all right given that it relies solely on mobile devices not being "lost" or "accidentally" wiped. Bunch of total shysters 😡
Of course, I hope that the favour is now returned…
Ah happy days.
The rats arent only deserting the sinking ship but shoving each other in the water in their haste to get down the hawser.
This sort of thing on a smaller financial level goes on everywhere. I asked a well known investigative jorno publication to look into my local council leader as there is some juicy shizzle to be had there, the response was "As you can imagine we have limited resources and need to focus on the higher profile investigations" While I fully understand the situation behind the response it sends a very sour message. Local politics, planning permissions, jobs for friends (despte having a CCJ) are small fry compared with all the other corruption that surrounds us, but if this smaller stuff was exposed and snuffed out then maybe it would make the corrupt fu...ers who then climb the greasy pole, think twice about doing at such a level as the Mone.
It's a sad state of affairs, it really is.
This whole thing about whatsapp is a scandal in its own right. How the **** are they using whatsapp, run by a third party, no security guarantees, apparently no centralised device management/backup etc.
Because they're untrustworthy and not fit to govern a modern democracy - lucky then that we're not a modern democracy any more.
This sort of thing on a smaller financial level goes on everywhere. I asked a well known investigative jorno publication to look into my local council leader as there is some juicy shizzle to be had there
Have you tried private eye?
£60m profit and he still looks like a Jakey in a Primark suit…
Nice to know we paid for the refit for them
Has anyone posted the Led by Donkeys video, where they found and renamed her yacht for her?
Seems that the press are now digging. More than ever.
https://twitter.com/DanNeidle/status/1737172048324235583?t=vBpRAVR_bXENGTnp_yjMkw&s=19
subsequently reported by novara media that she paid 50k to make this go away. what a lovely 'lady'
Lady M (the yacht) as opposed to Lady M (the disgraced peer, serial liar and pandemic profiteer) has been up for sale since last year. <br /><br />
Almost like they realised the game was up for a while, that they had underestimated the journos pursuing them and that the optics of owning a MASSIVE YACHT were not going to play well in the end game.
Thrilled to see the legal gravy train ploughs on unabated despite it coming off the tracks two stations back down the line. (McKie below was one of Mone’s attack dogs first time around)
Contacted for comment this week, McKie did not respond directly but instead instructed his own lawyer to reply on his behalf. The lawyer said McKie could not comment on “what he was or was not told” without breaching his duty of confidentiality to his client.
The lawyer had to hire a lawyer to say he was really sorry? Pinky promise, sorry? 😆
If she did Poops me old mucker, I'd be very surprised if she didn't bang on about your caring nature and amusing way with words, plus your inability to be quite as good as Danny MaCaskill on two wheels whilst still enjoying yourself to the max.
PLEASE REMEMBER
This is not a normal state of affairs. We can overcome this. Things will get better.
I truly believe this.
Don't accept.
^^ I really hope I’m never in a position that requires Hyde to write about me!
I dunno. I mean if we take this case there are two key factors.
1)sixty million in the bank
2)a complete lack of conscience about that coming from profiteering during a pandemic.
Since b is required for a I am not sure an newspaper article would be overly concerning. Its more the NCA which would concern me.
Honestly this seems completely blown out of proportion.
Yes, she stole from the taxpayers (us).
But probably the government would have just spent the money on something completely stupid, like shipping foreigners to far off African countries, or building a railway line to Manchester, or something equally pointless.
Far better to spend it on a giant in-your-face yacht, which will remind us of the benefits of hard work and fraud.
I think she's saved us from having Rishi and Suella spend our money and should be congratulated, not hounded.
A good point, well made.
Loved the Marina Hyde article
But look, let’s just get into technical terms for a second: Michelle is 5ft 9in of pure chaos, and watching Rishi Sunak whinnying feebly about “taking all these things incredibly seriously” tees up the spectacle of the prime minister and a number of other drippy male politicians further incensing this Category 5 “force of nature”, who will lash out all the way down on her well-earned fall from grace. Is that as good as taxpayers getting their money back? No. But I’ll watch.
I suspect she’s not going to go down alone and take the rap for this bunch of corrupt shysters. She’ll be taking them all with her. I bet Rishi is bricking it about what she’s going to come out with