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Am I the only one who thinks this is a little unfair, as a lot of the swimming events are quite close to each other in terms of the attributes required to do well, so if you are very good at one, chances are you are going to be as good at another.
He's got 19 golds in 4 games over 12 years. An mtb xc racer would have to be competing at Olympic gold medal level for 72 years to be considered as good.
Greatest Olympian? - no
Greatest Swimmer - Yes
Greatest Olympian? - no
Greatest Swimmer - Yes
+1
it's all tripe for sports "journalists" and presenters to babble on about
and swimming gets too many medals as a sport in comparison to others, if you can win more than 2 golds in a games they need to rethink the events
i agree to an extent but the mtber could have also competed in road and tt events if he was that good. Or at least that may be the view on your average swimming forum
At least noone has mentioned redgrave...
Greatest Olympian? - no
Greatest Swimmer - Yes
Indeed...getting medals for swimming lots of different types of strokes is like Usain Bolt getting gold medals for the 100m hopping, 200m running backwards etc.
If swimming was as 'pure' as running, there would only be one stroke...freestyle.
In equivalent terms, athletics should include for each distance running backwards, egg and spoon and sack-race, plus two relays to even things up!
Its a fair point, there are no athletics medals for running backwards or skipping 100m.
The best sprinter in the world can win 3 golds - 100m, 200m and 100m relay (or 200m, 400m and 4 x 400m. Very occasionally sprinter make good long jumpers but its pretty rare
the best swimmer can attempt to win 100m free, 200m free, 100m back, 200m back, 100m breast, 200m breast, 100m fly, 200m fly, 100m free relay, 200m free relay, 200m medley, 100m medley relay. That's 12 golds!
Have wondered about this. But then I'm not a swimmer so don't really know what I'm talking about 🙂
Phelps aside, how common is it to win multiple medals as a top swimmer? E.g. if you are the best 200m freestyle, is it almost a given than you'll win 100m and 400m too? Same with the different styles of stroke. Is that common or is Phelps just a phenomenon?
If you look at the [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multiple_Olympic_medalists ]most medals won by individuals[/url], of the top 20 there are 6 swimmers. But then there are 8 gymnasts. (And gymnasts and swimmers make up most of the top 100.)
Indeed...getting medals for swimming lots of different types of strokes is like Usain Bolt getting gold medals for the 100m hopping, 200m running backwards etc.
Seems a bit silly but when you think about it the demands are very different. Is it really common to be able to win gold across different strokes? Think Spitz did butterfly, freestyle and medley but I don't think there are many others.
the best swimmer can attempt to win 100m free, 200m free, 100m back, 200m back, 100m breast, 200m breast, 100m fly, 200m fly, 100m free relay, 200m free relay, 200m medley, 100m medley relay. That's 12 golds!
... but how common is that? Are we just looking at an exceptional case of someone who can actually be competitive across all those disciplines?
And I guess a sprinter could also attempt the hurdles 😉
i agree to an extent but the mtber could have also competed in road and tt events if he was that good.
Neff was well up there in the ladies road race. I think she finished in the Armitstead group.
TPbiker, yeah I get that, only using mtb as its the sport I know. But for the sports where you only have one gold available every 4 years such as golf or (I think) archery etc, it seems unlikely that they will step up in tae kwon do and shot put to up their gold totals
didn't we used to say lance Armstrong was the greatest cyclist ?
just saying like ... I'll get my coat from the cupboard marked, always ignore sports idols.
[quote=mrblobby ]Phelps aside, how common is it to win multiple medals as a top swimmer? E.g. if you are the best 200m freestyle, is it almost a given than you'll win 100m and 400m too? Same with the different styles of stroke. Is that common or is Phelps just a phenomenon?
Phelps is clearly a phenomenon, but there's not a huge physiological difference between 200 and 400 swimming - they're like 800 and 1500 running, where the double is hardly uncommon. 100 is a bit different, but not hugely so and if you're as good as Phelps then 200 speed might be enough to win.
Phelps is a butterfly specialist, but most butterfly swimmers will also swim freestyle and he's good enough at those to make the medley not a huge stretch.
The main issue though is that there is the opportunity for a good enough swimmer to win lots of medals, whilst a phenomenon in a different sport doesn't have the same opportunity. Nobody is suggesting Phelps isn't an incredible athlete, just that his medal haul doesn't prove he's the best.
didn't we used to say lance Armstrong was the greatest cyclist ?
No. Some people did but they were only talking about one race. Taking drugs into account obviously, he was only the best TdF winner. Merckx would still be the greatest cyclist, based on number and types of wins, and there are other riders who won as many or more Grand Tours than Armstrong with a more rounded palmares.
[quote=IdleJon ]there are other riders who won as many or more Grand Tours than Armstrong.
I've won as many Grand Tours as Armstrong
it's all tripe for sports "journalists" and presenters to babble on about
+1
I really like the Olympics but we always get this "greatest Olympian" BS.
tpbiker - MemberAt least noone has mentioned redgrave...
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I've won as many Grand Tours as Armstrong
Don't brag, so have the rest of us. (I'm sure you know what I meant? 😉 )
It just the nature of that discipline. If you include a sport in the olympics then that competition is going to be more or less like any other tournament for that sport. For swimming a swimming championships would include all those distances and strokes - lots of small competitions and therefore lots of winners or an opportunity for someone to win a lot of times. Similarly martial arts, boxing etc have lots of weight categories and again lots of potential winners. But olympic football is like any other football tournament, Olympic tennis is structured like any other tournament and so there a few winners in those discipline because thats what the sport is like.
What makes it an issue is some see it as a national competition - a competition between nations rather than a competition between athletes from those nations and the medal tally counts for more than those individual successes. So daily theres a tally up of which nations are the winningest. Thats why some countries have state sponsored doping and why the UK has been strategically supporting sports like swimming, cycling, rowing etc in recent years - putting effort into disciplines where there are multiple medal opportunities for our investment. The result is we appear to punch above our weight in terms of sporting achievement but the reality is we've focused on the sports with the most opportunities.
I've never really got all the swimming medals. Different distances yes; different strokes utter nonsense. Sure Adam Peaty has just swum very fast, 100m in 57.13 but the world record for freestyle is 46.91. You could swim freestyle and have time to get out the pool and pour Peaty a beer to celebrate his new world record before he' finished.
If that's a valid olympic sport then we need to let Bolt pick up a few golds for running backwards and hopping round the track, hell a 3 legged race would be a match for butterfly. 🙂
Well we do have both walking and running races in the Olympics.
Anyway, it's clearly this guy when you combine proficiency in numerous disciplines [i]and[/i] personal style and charisma...
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Why is there an assumption Bolt would be any good at running backwards or hopping?
@cha****ng has it, that was the first name that came to my mind as well although I suspect each country has their own version
One thing that he is great at though is performing at his best, over and over.
Most olympians might just have to focus on one moment of brilliance to get them a medal, whereas Phelps has to keep delivering over several days and deal with the physical & mental recovery to peak again.
I'd find it impossible to decide who is the greatest Olympian across such a variety of sports - it's just unfair to compare.
@cha****ng has it, that was the first name that came to my mind as well although I suspect each country has their own version
I don't get the derision for Michael Phelps, I do get that relatively speaking, the sport of swimming has more than its fair share of medal opportunities at the Olympic Games, but... You still have to turn up and beat the competition, which Michael Phelps has done time and time again over a 12 year period already!
Besides, if we're judging based upon success in different disciplines, then surely the greatest track athlete of all time, Carl Lewis, needs a special mention?
As a swimmer, his record is amazing, but the amount of different races he can enter in each Olympics makes it very hard to compare his tally to the likes of Sir Steve Redgraves' 5 gold rowing medals over 5 Olympics.
[quote=n0b0dy0ftheg0at ]As a swimmer, his record is amazing, but the amount of different races he can enter in each Olympics makes it very hard to compare his tally to the likes of Sir Steve Redgraves' 5 gold rowing medals over 5 Olympics.
Ah, but what you're forgetting there, and most people seem unaware of is that Redgrave also has a bronze medal - which raises the question of why he only once tried to compete in more than one event at an Olympics?
Carl Lewis won medals across 100m, 200m and long jump, then there's a relay on top.
Gymnasts can win a whole host of medals too.
Theoretically if someone could stay at the top over multiple Olympics a field and track athlete or a gymnast could gain as many as a swimmer.
[quote=ebygomm ]Carl Lewis won medals across 100m, 200m and long jump, then there's a relay on top.
Gymnasts can win a whole host of medals too.
Theoretically if someone could stay at the top over multiple Olympics a field and track athlete or a gymnast could gain as many as a swimmer.
er, you've noticed that Phelps now has 19 golds - he won the first in 2004, so 18 across 3 games. How many would Carl Lewis have won?
I think there are theoretically 6 on offer for a female gymnast (8 for men), though some of the disciples are too specialist to excel in them all - it would be like Phelps winning golds in backstroke and breaststroke as well. Phelps has the advantage of events doing the same thing over multiple distances, and multiple relays as well.
aracerAh, but what you're forgetting there, and most people seem unaware of is that Redgrave also has a bronze medal - which raises the question of why he only once tried to compete in more than one event at an Olympics?
Fair point about Sir Steve having one "Coxed pair" bronze from 1988, along with the "Coxless pair" gold he won in the same year.
My hunch is that Olympic rowers rarely do multiple events is partially down to exertion of rowing 2000m over multiple rounds with other team members at a competitive pace (~5min55secs for four-man), plus the time scheduling for the different events giving the athletes too little recovery time between round for different events.
By comparison, at a quick glance, a vast majority of Phelps' individual races (or as part of a 4-man medley) were less than 2 minutes each.
I suspect the calorific burn per race is massively higher for the rowing, thinking back to my fitter days around 2004, I used to burn something like 600+ Calories doing 2000m on a row machine at the gym... Going nothing like Olympic standard!
[quote=aracer ]I think there are theoretically 6 on offer for a female gymnast (8 for men), though some of the disciples are too specialist to excel in them all - it would be like Phelps winning golds in backstroke and breaststroke as well.
18 medals in 3 games, though one in an event they no longer do, and not all gold (Phelps has 23 medals) - she won a medal in all but one of the possible events, and did win gold at the world championships in the events she didn't win at the Olympics, so clearly just about possible (or was once)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larisa_Latynina
Wiggins is a greater Olympian than Phelps.
Looking at the table, you'd have to see that he's won nearly twice as many medals as the next best swimmer. So in Olympic history, is there anyone else who stands that far apart from their peers? If not, then he's a pretty good shout. Of course it's not just about medals though. He still holds 7 world records, and has set 39 in total.
[swimming rant]
Swimming has way too many events at the Olympics, mostly minor variations on a theme and I don't know why they're there. Other than crawl the only reason for the other strokes with the current set-up is just to make life awkward. Backstroke is the equivalent of just running backwards, stroke is just skipping and butterfly is pretty much the hopping race. Introduce the 100m/200m hopping, 100m/200m skipping and 100m/200m running backwards as well as the associate relays and Bolt would probably clean up in these and become the greatest ever Olympian.
If they did a better spread of distances to replicate the sprint/middle distance and longer distance running events I'd be more interested.
[/swimming rant]
And steeplechase is just running with a few obstacles, ditto hurdles.
Most Olympic events are fairly arbitrary.
Assume that those who don't like races for different strokes aren't fans of Keirin or half the track cycling events either.
If they did a better spread of distances to replicate the sprint/middle distance and longer distance running events I'd be more interested.
1500m hurdles would be a crowd pleaser
Jim Thorpe
ignore the lazy Indian bullshit - this guy worked bloody hard to get this "fit" decades before anyone else.....
I just looked up athletes who'd won 3 or more gold medals across different Olympic games. It's a much longer list than I expected and had heard of very few of them.
Swimming has way too many events at the Olympics, mostly minor variations on a theme
see also: fencing, essentially the same event with 3 different "swords"
And what about athletes whio have won gold at completely different sports?
Swimming say, with a bit of JUdo, and maybe Archery, balancing on their head, blindfold.
see also: fencing, essentially the same event with 3 different "swords"
And perhaps track cycling 😉
Phelps is certainly a fabulous athlete, probably the greatest Olympic swimmer but not so sure about outright Olympian.
As for all the swimming remarks, Inwasn't a fan of seimming until my kids started doing it with a high level competitive club. Certainly eye opening the trchnical coaching, enthusiasm, dedication and outright hard work required. The different strokes require different muscle groups and obviously techniques. Also the difference between a 100m amd 400m swimmer is pretty significant. So for some like Phelps to excel at different disciplines is remarkable.
As for too many swimming events, they have been cut down over the years (eg no 50m aside from freestyle) but imo seimming is one of the core events and I'd rather see more if that and less of some of the newer stuff
[quote=suburbanreuben ]And what about athletes whio have won gold at completely different sports?
Rebecca Romero and Clara Hughes are the two obvious ones I thought of who've medalled in totally different sports, though not gold in both - I found a list here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_athletes_with_Olympic_medals_in_different_disciplines
I'm going to exclude such combinations as swimming and water polo, different sports that both involve XC skiing, variations of volleyball and multiple winter sliding things, which leaves us I think with the following who have won gold medals in totally different sports:
Carl Schuhmann (gymnastics and wrestling)
Daniel Norling (gymnastics and equestrian)
Eddie Eagan (boxing and bobsleigh)
(I'm also ignoring the artistic events)
You missed Lauryn Williams - Athletics & Bobsleigh
I think if Bolt wins the 100 & 200 he'll be the greatest. But at the mo Phelps IS!
[quote=ebygomm ]You missed Lauryn Williams - Athletics & Bobsleigh
She didn't win gold in bobsleigh - my criteria was gold in different sports. A long list I linked to of medallists in different sports. Though athletics and bobsleigh is marginal for being completely different anyway.
The greatness of a man isn't measured in the medals around his neck.
There are lots of stories of triumph over adversity.
Jesse Owens, segregated in his own country as a second class citizen, winning four golds as an African-American at the Berlin-Nazi-Games is pretty high up there as greatest Olympians go.
Who's going to edit the title then? And I'm guessing even more are on the cards.
Correct answer is yes, you lot only dispute it as he's not 'British'. The likes of Daley Thompson (or other top decathalonisters) would be a better athletes, but that's not the question. Most medals in most events. Most WRs set in Olympic competition and over 4 games. Can't argue with the stats.
As an aside, weird how Lance get a bit of stick in this thread, but Carl Lewis gets an honourable mention. Is it only cycling drug cheats we don't like? Bolt too, he'll be found out some day.
It's increasingly hard to argue that he is not right up there. Not just the medal quantity but the longevity too. Sure it highlights that olympic sports are not equal in terms of medal chances and I would also argue that makes some of the rarer ones (i.e. triathlon with one male and one female gold available every 4 years) should be valued higher than those from the 'ten-a-penny' sports.
But, and its a big but for me - I'm not sure he is a very nice person. Like a lot of incredibly successful athletes his is very driven to the extent he's not necessarily an easy person to be around and he would not be on many peoples fantasy diner party guest list. He has a reputation for being an arse. Also, to be caught drink driving twice before you are 30 indicates a pretty crappy attitude to the welfare of others and a selfish streak a mile wide.
So for me he's on the great olympian, crappy human being list.
I'd have a beer with him to discuss his medals and how much work he put in to get them
[url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multiple_Olympic_gold_medalists_at_a_single_Games ]List of multiple Olympic gold medalists at a single Games[/url]
Top of the list is dominated by swimmers and gymnastics. There's a cyclist with 4 golds and 1 bronze from 1904 Olympics 🙂
I'd have a beer with him to discuss his medals and how much work he put in to get them
He wouldn't have one with you though, because he's [s]washing his hair[/s] an arse.
[quote=Euro ]Correct answer is yes, you lot only dispute it as he's not 'British'.
I dispute it because of the number of potential medals available to him compared to other sports, nothing to do with his nationality - I'm certainly not suggesting Daley Thompson, he didn't have the longevity.
Most medals in most events. Most WRs set in Olympic competition and over 4 games. Can't argue with the stats.
Of course you can when the stats are distorted depending on what sport you do. Let's throw out (DYSWIDT?) Al Oerter who won every event available to him over 4 Olympiads, or can I suggest Sir Steve without you accusing me of nationalistic bias?
Al Oerter was Discus only. If he won Hammer or Javelin too then then maybe...
Redgrave probably has as much opportunity to win as many golds as Phelps if you consider Coxed/Coxless + Pairs/Fours etc. He only got five 😛 . All imo of course.
Correct answer is yes, you lot only dispute it as he's not 'British'.
Indeed, complete nonsense! No one is disputing he is probably the greatest swimmer of all time, but take out relays, non freestyle and stick with the core distances....and how many has he won?
Ive just checked and the answer is ......wait for it........ONE!
200m freestyle at the 2008 games.
but take out relays, non freestyle and stick with the core distances....and how many has he won?
Don't forget to omit medals won in races held on days with an 'A' in them and when the planets orbit the Sun.
What an utterly pointless thing to say: The fact is he's won pretty much everything he's entered. You can't do better than that.
Is he the greatest ever Olympian? He's certainly one of them, but it's question there isn't a single answer to. There's no doubt he's the greatest ever swimmer.
Also pretty dumb as he's a butterfly specialist 🙂
Ive just checked and the answer is ......wait for it........ONE!200m freestyle at the 2008 games.
Slightly disingenuous. He has won individual golds in freestyle (1), butterfly (6) [b]but also IM (5) [/b]as well as the raft of relay golds.
Also pretty dumb as he's a butterfly specialist
But thats the whole point! It should be about who can swim the fastest over the various distances, rather than who can swim the most ridiculous stroke ever invented faster than any other (mostly disinterested in butterfly) swimmer.
Hence the comments about hopping around the running track!
It's not even a debate. He is. The purpose of the Olympics is to win medals full stop. He's won more than anyone so that makes him the greatest Olympian. Is he the worlds greatest athlete? that might be up for debate, but swimming is an f-ing tough sport easily as hard to get to the top of as any other sport you care to mention - and to cross disciplines makes his achievements more impressive. I competed into my early 20's and I was swimming a couple of hours 5 day's a week and competing most weekends and getting nowhere. A top swimmer will easily be putting as much effort in training as any runner, swimmer, archer, sailor or other sport you care to mention. These days all sports require you to work full time at it to get to the top.
A top swimmer will easily be putting as much effort in training as any runner, swimmer, archer, sailor or other sport you care to mention. These days all sports require you to work full time at it to get to the top.
You're absolutely right...and the comment about Olympians and Athletes is a good one, but my point is about pure natural talent that every person on the planet does at various times in their lives....running! You quickly find out if you're any good at it and then, if you are you have to work as hard as anyone to achieve your potential. Swimming is similar, but only on the basis of speed, so can only be judged on freestyle.
All IMHO of course! 8)
[quote=wobbliscott ]A top swimmer will easily be putting as much effort in training as any runner, swimmer, archer, sailor or other sport you care to mention. These days all sports require you to work full time at it to get to the top.
Of course - and if you're putting all that effort in and you're a sailor you only get one chance at a gold medal each games.
It also helps that swimming is a low impact activity, meaning recovery is quicker, allowing for greater repetition.
These are all reasons why you can't say Phelps is the greatest Olympian, just one of them.
The Olympics would be very short going on which events some people think are legitimate.
Presumably jumping far, jumping far with a bit of hopping and skipping, jumping high and jumping high with a pole would be replaced by one jumping event. Discus,javelin,shotput and hammer replaced by one throwing event. No hurdles or steeplechase as that's just random obstacles included, nothing with any sort of subjective measurement, e.g. diving/gymnastics...
Or very long, with everything matching swimming and gymnastics?
I'm gonna change my mind on this one now after last night (not that I was completely against the idea before). Phelps now sits right at the top of [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multiple_Olympic_gold_medalists_in_one_event ]this list[/url] alongside others who get mentioned for their performances at the Olympics - along with a couple of other entries in that list. In a couple of days he has a chance to go top of that list twice.
Ole Einar Bjørndalen would have to come close for me, a true phenomenon of his sport
I'm a fan of Bjørndalen and thought of mentioning him earlier - undoubtedly one of the greatest sportsmen ever - though he only managed to win the same event 3 times in a row and only did the clean sweep of all the events available once, so not quite up there with Phelps. He did compete in a sport where it was a lot easier to fail, but if we're talking greatest ever Olympian then he should have got over that (as he did in SLC).
no denyig he is a supreme athlete given longevity and four in a row which is vert very impressive ad won by a margin as well. Certainly amongst GOAT
However the medal count is high due to the similarity of events and the number within swimming which artificially flatters him due to the discipline
Athletics is has 100 m as fast as you can not 100m sprint, 100m hop, 100 m backwards,100m skip then a relay for each over different distances.
Its not a numbers game their are often "softer" aspects that cant be calculated. For me 2 great olympians that stand out are Zatopek and Coe.
Coe because he retained the 1500m title at a time when the event was incredibly competitive and much of that competition was home grown.
Zatopek partly for his olympic achievements but because he was arguably one of the greatest distance athletes of the 20th century
There are a hundred reasons why people wont agree but it can be calculated using a medals table.
Jurgen grobler
To suggest the different strokes in swimming is any easier than different disciplines and distances in any other sport is ridiculous. I was swimming competitively until my early 20's and know that people tend to specialise in specific strokes and distances just like any other sport. If it is that easy then why is Phelps such a phenomenon within swimming, let alone any other sport. What he's done is comparable to winning gold in the road race, TT and track events in the same Olympics. And the fact he's done it over so many Olympic cycles makes it even more extraordinary. He is the greatest ever Olympian. That is simply a fact. He's got more medals over more Olympic cycles, and the whole point of the Olympics is to win medals, so there you are - anyone who can count can establish that he is the greatest ever Olympian. You might want to argue whether or not he's the greatest ever athlete, but that's a whole other different debate. One thing is for sure - he is a genetic freak. His whole body by complete chance is designed for swimming, so that certainly means he has an advantage over just about every other swimmer. He could of course be doped unto the eyeballs, but until that is established he's simply a phenomenom.
so he races over very long distances with loads of others, quite long distances on his own and then sprints...I thought he just did short distances different ways. Is it bollocks as that is impossible where as other swimmers have won multiple golds at the one olympics and o one has ever done that - no one has even tried have they as that is impossible.What he's done is comparable to winning gold in the road race, TT and track events in the same Olympics.
Swimmers will always be the best then as they get the most chances- its a very unfair comparison in that respect but the number of cycles clearly elevates him to amongst the GOAT as well as the achievements each cycleHe's got more medals over more Olympic cycles, and the whole point of the Olympics is to win medals, so there you are - anyone who can count can establish that he is the greatest ever Olympian
Without doubt the greatest swimmer and therefore a great but only a swimmer can do this volume. Given that its not unreasonable to point it out.
I might be wrong here, but it looks like Junky and me are finally agreeing on something! 😯
Bear in mind the pool is the most controllable environment. Never impacted by competitors, weather or even temperature. Not the greatest for me.
Bear in mind the pool is the most controllable environment. Never impacted by competitors, weather or even temperature.
Is that not a good thing for finding 'the best'? Taking as much chance and external factors out of it as possible to allow true performance to rise to the top. The Olympic road race is the antithesis of this - the Olympic champion is really just the person best suited to the course decreed by the organisers in that 4 year windows who avoids the bad luck. If when it is your turn to be in peak physical condition the organisers put on a course not suited to you or someone falls in front of you taking you down, that could well be your only chance in a lifetime to get the gold.
To qualify for the Olympics is a massive achievement. To reach a final, even more so. To medal even morer again. To win a gold is the pinnacle of any athletes career. That's one gold in one event in one games. Seems strange to have to point this out on a 'sporty' forum. To do this in different events over a span of 12+ years is unimaginable to any top sportsperson. Ask any olympic athlete who the greatest is, i'd bet my house they'd all say Phelps. Ask the internet full of 'sporting nobodies' and suddenly it's in doubt? Odd.
wobbliscott - MemberTo suggest the different strokes in swimming is any easier than different disciplines and distances in any other sport is ridiculous.
Agree with you completely. It's utter nonsense.
My breaststroke is poor*, my freestyle and backstroke are very poor and i can't do the 'fly at all. Just because they take place in the water doesn't make them the same thing.
*it's my only good stroke and possibly faster than most folk on here, but not in the grand scheme of things.
To qualify for the Olympics is a massive achievement. To reach a final, even more so. To medal even morer again. To win a gold is the pinnacle of any athletes career. That's one gold in one event in one games. Seems strange to have to point this out on a 'sporty' forum.
Thank goodness you are here. Although I dont think it needed pointing out and is lagely irrelevant as all gold medal winners have to go through this process.
Ask the internet full of 'sporting nobodies'
Are you sure?
Agree with you completely. It's utter nonsense
Its not nonsense. Try comparing a 100m sprinter with a Marathon runner and compare the variation in training. You dont know what you are talking about it would seem.