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That stinks.
[quote=chip ]One says video exists of three men urinating on him.
Not my thing but would that stop him from doing his job
Sounds like he'd be a good candidate for Armed Forces Minister or Minister for Sport. I'm pretty sure that's a fairly standard ritual in some branches of the military and in the jolly rugger set.
Interesting reading.The bottom one seems a bit unnecessary if it's just how the fella likes to roll.
yeah there's a few iffy ones. Some of them are basically 'X is gay' or 'Y has had a [i]seemingly consensual[/i] affair'.
that stuff should be their own business and not lumped in with sexual assault etc
I think the confusion here stems from whether this list was compiled to highlight sexual harassment - which is what it was used on the whatsapp group for
but as the list used by Whips to blackmail MPs?
need the list sorting into political partys.
I would be sacked if I tweeted the word one minister just used to describe new defence secretary Gavin Williamson
Competent ?
[quote=jekkyl ]need the list sorting into political partys.
we certainy all need to make sure we dont make it a tribal party political issue it is bigger than that
yeah there's a few iffy ones. Some of them are basically 'X is gay' or 'Y has had a seemingly consensual affair'.that stuff should be their own business and not lumped in with sexual assault etc
Yep, but without an identifiable author or any explanation of their intent it's difficult to infer very much.
Not my thing but would that stop him from doing his job
Depends what security clearance he has and how desperate he is to cover it up. Big question for Fallon as well should any of the rumours about him turn out to be true.
tbf last night Nick Ferrari was trying really hard to make it party political (well anti-labour) last night on the ITV newsnight copy
but mcvey, julia heartly brewer & chakrabati were all united pretty good at keeping it apolitical
Sounds like he'd be a good candidate for Armed Forces Minister or Minister for Watersports
FTFY
Depends what security clearance he has and how desperate he is to cover it up. Big question for Fallon as well should any of the rumours about him turn out to be true.
drunken letch not good for defence sec?
One says video exists of three men urinating on him.
Presumably he's one of the Tory wets.
https://twitter.com/daily_politics/status/926071147229151233
"There are worse examples of inappropriate behaviour by him (Fallon)"
says The Sun political editor
by-election time?
who will they parachute into such a safe seat?
ChapeauPresumably he's one of the Tory wets
yeah but if there's only a very few labour mps on the list or if the list is majority leaning to the government then it is a party political issue.
It's like a dirt list a foreign government might hold to bribe or influence politics. I do hate the fact that it has been released though, without any evidence, however much I hate the tories, someone could have just made that up and people's careers and personal lives will be affectly greated by the info here.
The thing I don't quite understand is that being a Tory MP who's allegedly into alcohol fuelled group watersports is clearly more of a moral outrage than being a Tory MP who lied [i]repeatedly[/i] to the nation and has helped bring about the greatest self-inflicted constitutional crisis since the Civil War and who continues to tell lies, daily and yet who appears to be unsackable.
Can't help but feel that the priorities are skewed somewhat.
John Pienaar slipped up when talking about Fallon earlier. He said that he had to go because 'of what is about to come out', then realised what he said, and backtracked with 'erm... I mean what might be about to come out'
So there's clearly common knowledge about other stuff.
But he also said that May appointing the bloke who pulled the trigger to succeed him has gone down like a lead balloon
[quote=PJM1974 ] a Tory MP who lied repeatedly to the nation and has helped bring about the greatest self-inflicted constitutional crisis since the Civil War and who continues to tell lies, daily and yet who appears to be unsackable.
which one?
yeah but if there's only a very few labour mps on the list or if the list is majority leaning to the government then it is a party political issue.
There are none because it is a list put together by some Tory aides about Tories. The Labour stuff that has been alluded to is very serious if true
[url= http://https://order-order.com/2017/11/02/full-litany-of-abuse-claims-being-covered-up-by-labour/ ]Order-order summary[/url], it should be noted that Guido was the first to publish a redacted version of the Tory spreadsheet so is being ecumenical about throwing shit in this instance.
There are none because it is a list put together by some Tory aides about Tories. The Labour stuff that has been alluded to is very serious if true
theres no doubt that there are worse things to come from, even with Fallon, the knee thing is just a prelude to more serious allegations in the pipeline, accoprding to the Suns political editor who broke the knee business
I am still a bit skeptical across the board. When the Sun broke the Fallon story. the Guardian commented that they didn't think a huge amount was out there because, in their words, whatever your feeling about the tabloid press the one thing they are very good at is finding "sex stories" and therefore concluded the fact that the Sun went with a 15 year old story was indicative of how difficult it was to stand up these rumours.
As Williamson owes his elevation to May's patronage I can't see him being robust in defending or attempting to increase the MoD budget.
MP for 7 years and he lands the Sec of State Defence portfolio with no prior ministerial experience; something wrong with that.
Yet again, a PM takes a decision based on their personal political interests - not a decision based on what is best for the country; as for any consideration of what is best for the MoD......
The Conservatives have been putting the survival of the party ahead of the good of the country for a very long time now. If rumours are to be given credence, they cannot muster enough activists on the ground to fight another GE.
One suspects that the malaise might have a lot to do with the message, not the delivery...
mefty - Member
I am still a bit skeptical across the board.
dont disagree, considering how leaky parliament seems to be on everything else
there was a journo on and the problem is that if the source wont go on record then you cannot print the story* - most leaks are literally a conference with the press where they dont give their name out to us plebs its not a leak as we consider it is just "covert " briefing- - sources close to the PM = her press secretary for example.
* the journo claimed most of them had multiple stories they could not print- might even have been a link from here i read.
I think the confusion here stems from whether this list was compiled to highlight sexual harassment - which is what it was used on the whatsapp group for
Cant find the article where I read it but my understanding is the spreadsheet was put together by some tory mps or aides as a "what do we know about that could, possibly, come up as a story about MPs sexual habits now that people are going to be looking". As opposed to purely sexual harassment cases.
It isnt supposed to be the whips blackmail, sorry, support materials.
considering how leaky parliament seems to be on everything else
Dunno. Think how long it took for the story about Majors affair with Currie to come out and that had the hypocrisy angle about the back to basics or whatever it was campaign.
I love how MPs get to resign and keep their job.
My MP has inherited the little black book, I see.
Thing I can't understand is surely a prerequisite of being a tory mp is that you are a depraved sexual deviant..
It's been true throughout history... so unless fallon has been caught felating one of the Queens corgies whilst it's dressed in a miniature pair of assless doggie chaps.. I can't see what the issue is..
I love how MPs get to resign and keep their job.
He stops being a minister.
No more ministerial car.
No more ministerial salary.
etc.
He still has to do the job he voted in to do, which is to represent his constituents.
He still has to do the job he voted in to do, which is to represent his constituents.
Well until the next allegations come out, as far as falling on swords go it's more swiss army knives, little bit every time.
As said previously his constituents can petition to remove him, the parliamentary standards committee can remove him or the police can... depends what else he has done.
considering how leaky parliament seems to be on everything elseDunno. Think how long it took for the story about Majors affair with Currie to come out and that had the hypocrisy angle about the back to basics or whatever it was campaign.
Leaking has to have value - until it leaks you hold power of that person.
Well seems like Andrea Leadsom sunk him in the end.
Sorry its The Sun link but they were the ones with the story. Just been talked about on newsnight
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4831049/sir-michael-fallon-inappropriate-comments-andrea-leadsom/
She accused Sir Michael of a string of inappropriate remarks when they were Treasury Select Committee members between 2010 and 2012. It was during one meeting that he is said to have crudely advised her where to put her cold hands.He is also alleged to have made derogatory comments of a sexual nature about other MPs on the committee, as well as members of the public who had attended meetings.
Sir Michael, 65, was hauled in to see Theresa May on Wednesday after PMQs, and was asked if Ms Leadsom’s allegations were true.
The veteran minister vigorously denied making the hand-warming comment.
But he admitted remarks during committee meetings “might not have been appropriate” — even though he could not recall any specifically.
Mrs May then offered him the opportunity to resign — a more honourable departure than firing him — and he accepted it.
Some fairly shoddy work there by the Sun though, I can seem a load of their readers (is that what they are?) complaining that it's not offensive but missing the bit it's the only one he appears to deny and they have not published anything else he allegedly said.
Mind you it's the Phwoar, tits page 3 Sun
Well at least these later revelations about Fallon make sense vis a viz his resignation.
First Labour MP has been named following his suspension. What is odd here is he was previously reprimanded, then promoted to Shadow Cabinet and now suspended - make your minds up !
More detail on the Luton MP
https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/926217998582497280
he was initially reprimanded a year ago for sexting
the woman has come forward now and said he also rubbed himself against her and hes now been suspended
still not sure about Fallon, he must have said some really nasty stuff to get the boot, unless there is more
as for press sitting on sex scandal stories- rumours of savilles behaviour were well known in the media & press for many years, but no one pushed it
No way is that everything about Fallon.
still not sure about Fallon, he must have said some really nasty stuff to get the boot, unless there is more
The highest level of security clearance, if the vetting officers were concerned that he was vulnerable to manipulation or his judgement put him in situations where that was likely, then there would be some interesting conversations!
Fallon has been known as a serial groper for years
As Dianne Abbot said this is a cross party issue, Jess Phillips was pretty restrained on R4 this morning (I imagine a male MP could not have gotten away with using the phrase “cock up” in this context 😯 )
This is the extremely worrying timeline re Luton Labour MP - promoted AFTER written allegations
December 2015: 24 year old Ava Etemadzadeh contacts the Labour whips office to make sexual harassment allegations against Kelvin Hopkins.
January 2016: Jeremy Corbyn’s office receives a written complaint from a regional Labour representative detailing the allegations against Hopkins.
June 2016: Corbyn promotes Kelvin Hopkins to the Shadow Cabinet.
November 2017: Labour suspends Hopkins.
As Dianne Abbot said this is a cross party issue
No doubt but I would put money on a higher proportion of tories being implicated. Any takers?
Not sure of that, they are all dodgy
question regards Hopkins will be if he did anything else after reprimand, or whether there were previous allegations
This is the extremely worrying timeline re Luton Labour MP - promoted AFTER written allegations
Did I hear correctly that the alleged incident was a hug and then a 'suggestive' text?
It's a great time to [i]not be[/i] an MP and sit gleefully watching the whole thing unravel everyday. I wonder how many people on that list are today contacting friends in industry and setting up a potential position if it all goes A over T for them.
I also wonder how many MPs really need the money? surely nothing can touch if you're a millionaire. Why would you worry about losing your job if you don't need the money!?
kerley - Member
As Dianne Abbot said this is a cross party issueNo doubt but I would put money on a higher proportion of tories being implicated. Any takers?
Nope. Old skool labour is full of serial gropers. I doubt there is a significant difference
This is a serious issue lets not descend into tribal politics about it
Yet you seem to be giving much more attention to one side than the other whilst reminding us. I do love the irony of you quoting Dianne Abbott - you do seem to hold her in such high regard.As Dianne Abbot said this is a cross party issue
Did I hear correctly that the alleged incident was a hug and then a 'suggestive' text?
No you heard what you wanted to hear. HTH
Did I hear correctly that the alleged incident was a hug and then a 'suggestive' text?
nah, he rubbed himself on her, lamented that his office wasn't empty otherwise he'd love to take her there, asked whether she had a boyfriend and other personal questions, sent her a text which was pretty much a thinly veiled proposition...
sleazebag really...
Did I hear correctly that the alleged incident was a hug and then a 'suggestive' text?
That's the next level from Damien Greens knee rub & dodgy text !
Again unless there is more to this story to come out, which wouldn't surprise me
nah, he rubbed himself on her, lamented that his office wasn't empty otherwise he'd love to take her there, asked whether she had a boyfriend and other personal questions, sent her a text which was pretty much a thinly veiled proposition...
And then he was reprimanded for this, as in, it was accepted that this is what actually happened?
See whatever anyone thinks I think, for the record, this is the kind of behaviour I firmly believe constitues gross misconduct and should result in dismissal from your post.
It is genuinely unfathomable that if a formal investigation established that this is what happened it should only result in a reprimand.
Fallon now calling Leadsome a liar
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41854582
Do worry that what is a serious issue is becoming a tit-for-tat squabble.
Certainly Fallon giving that impression and we all know that Tories fighting like rats in a sack ever since the referendum, but once it's at the 'he said, she said' stage then it becomes hard to prove anything and the bloke gets away with it as usual
Did I hear correctly that the alleged incident was a hug and then a 'suggestive' text?
Not quite.
However, this was towards another Minister. Can you imagine how he behaved towards researchers etc?
As you have argued, many times, that most men don't behave in a bad way, then the ones that do must be rampant.
I'll ask you again, as you didn't answer on another thread, how would you feel if a senior colleague was sending "suggestive" texts to your wife? Just banter?
See whatever anyone thinks I think
Its hard to tell as it seems to have changedfrom
incident was a hug and then a 'suggestive' text?
to
the kind of behaviour I firmly believe constitues gross misconduct and should result in dismissal from your post.
It is genuinely unfathomable that if a formal investigation established that this is what happened it should only result in a reprimand
According to the BBC last night the complaint at the time only included the dodgy text and after the reprimand the woman considered the matter settled.
Obviously she no longer thinks it was, as she has revealed it was more than that, whether she felt pressured not to push it too far for fear of damaging her career is at the root of the problem
It is genuinely unfathomable...
nah, it's national politics remember? In a country where a lot of the press is right wing, some of it severely so, and most of it anti Corbyn and it's perfectly rational* to end up in this situation. Don't wash your dirty linen etc etc...
* It ain't right by any stretch of the imagination, but it's rational.
Its hard to tell as it seems to have changedfrom
Well that's because a hug isn't the same thing as rubbing yourself on some and telling them you'd like to take them into an empty office.
I said this earlier and we need to be careful of trial by ordeal/social mediaDo worry that what is a serious issue is becoming a tit-for-tat squabble
We do need to get guilty people but we also need evidence
Kelvin Hopkins came into our secondary school in Luton for various functions as our local MP - luckily he didn’t try anything as our kids would have had him (MP or not) as they were pretty lairy......
Grew up in Dunstable so I can verify that Luton kids are pretty lairy.
I imagine his is the next resignation incoming from, possibly standing down, he is 76.
(Not sure if Patel might beat him to it if it turns out she didn't pay for that holiday to Israel)
I'll ask you again, as you didn't answer on another thread, how would you feel if a senior colleague was sending "suggestive" texts to your wife? Just banter?
Sorry I missed your question.
The problem with a text being described as 'suggestive' is that it doesn't mean anything, the term is full of ambiguity and means different things to different people in different contexts. Simply calling a text 'suggestive' tells us nothing other than what the person receiving it wants you to think.
I think what you want to ask me is 'how would I feel if a colleague of my wife tried it on with her' and the honest answer to that is 'a lot less worried than I would be about her response'.
Would it bother me that another man found my wife a deeply attractive woman that he would like to get together with? No I wouldn't be remotely surprised.
Would it bother me that someone in a position of 'power and influence' in respect of their relationship with her did that and used that position to pressure her, yes of course it would and I would encourage her to make a formal complaint.
Not that I would need to do that; my wife's a pilot for crying out loud and a captain at that. She 'flies the bloody plane' and doesn't need anyone nannying her in respect of keeping a bunch of gobshite blokes making stupid lewd jokes in order.
Would it bother me that another man found my wife a deeply attractive woman that he would like to get together with? No I wouldn't be remotely surprised.
You seem to think it would be some kind of complement? Really? 🙄
The problem with a text being described as 'suggestive' is that it doesn't mean anything
If it didn't mean anything, then people wouldn't keep doing it.
You seem to think it would be some kind of complement?
I would see it as a recognition of the exact same thing that I original saw in her and why I ended up marrying her.
I would see it as 'normal' behaviour.
If it didn't mean anything, then people wouldn't keep doing it.
For clarity I simply meant that if someone in receipt of a text describes it as 'suggestive', without knowing what the text said and the context in which it was sent, you know nothing other than that the person said they felt it was 'suggestive'.
I think that Fallon now accusing Leadsom of lying is quite serious, its the age old way of discrediting the victim
That his friends are now briefing against her & warning she might bring down the government if she doesnt stop only makes it worse
I would see it as 'normal' behaviour.
Well there you go.
can we please stop feeding him. We all know what he thinks and we all know he will derail any discussion about women being treated poorly to a discussion about him.
By rubbed himself against her. Do they mean his penis?
Was he hard? Could it of been just consequence of the hug. Did he wiggle his hip like hoola hooping or was he rutting like an over excited dog?
I need more facts.
Well there you go.
Men trying to get togther with women and in some instances other men because they find them attractive, is normal behaviour. It isn't something that is or should be seen as, a problem by default.
Doing that with a colleague is not neccessarily a problem but it might be.
Some companies have a formal policy that make office romances an incidence of gross misconduct. I'm not sure I like that but that's not really the debate here.
But I am not saying that someone using a position of influence or authority to achieve that outcome is acceptable; it's not. Best leave well alone in those instances.
Men trying to get togther with women and in some instances other men because they find them attractive, is normal behaviour. It isn't something that is or should be seen as, a problem by default.
That is normal.
By rubbing yourself against them and then following it with suggestive text messages, while at work, I would suggest no.
someone using a position of influence or authority to achieve that outcome is acceptable; it's not.
But what if it's just normal behaviour because they fancy them? Where's the harm in that?
(Not sure if Patel might beat him to it if it turns out she didn't pay for that holiday to Israel)
Holiday where she happened to have meetings with Israeli ministers. As you do, on holiday.
Not really sure what "who paid" changes?
Holiday where she happened to have meetings with Israeli ministers. As you do, on holiday.
while accompanied, on her holiday, by a pro-Israeli lobbyist. Who just happened to be in the same place at the same time as her family holiday.
Quack quack, again......
Clive Lewis apparently grabbed am activists bum
And Tory MP (I've never heard of) Michael Elphick suspended & assault claims referred to police
Thing I can't understand is surely a prerequisite of being a tory mp is that you are a depraved sexual deviant..It's been true throughout history... so unless fallon has been caught felating one of the Queens corgies whilst it's dressed in a miniature pair of assless doggie chaps.. I can't see what the issue is..
You win the internet...
Ordinarily, a minority Conservative government dealing with the greatest constitutional crisis since the union would be able to at least be able to negotiate the silence from the pro-Tory web news disseminators who actually leaked this in the first place.
This would smack of an inside leak, but for the 40 names mentioned are from across the Leave/Remain spectrum. Something really doesn't smell right.
I suspect that it was done by a wronged woman. Just a guess. I thought I had read somewhere that the list was by women for the use of women staffers so they knew who to avoid but maybe I imagined this.
It would make sense tho if it was leaked by a victim who got fed up of inaction.
Maybe Enola May is going for suicide by cop.
Putin was going to do the job but after reading a few emails/files realised he couldn't make British MPs look any worse than they aready are.
According to telegraph (so probably BS) Tories been sitting on allegations for a year